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103 Comments
- tenabobina, on 07/05/2008, -2/+42All we really need is 1.21 gigawatts so we can go back in time and fix this horrible mess...
- tbk123, on 07/06/2008, -7/+42The thing about China is if they decide to do something, they DO it. For instance, a week after that recent earthquake, they were rebuilding permanent housing for victims. In the US we STILL have Katrina victims living in temp housing or displaced!
- hangingchad, on 07/06/2008, -2/+24America has been the biggest contributor to green house gasses for years. Now that developing nations such as India and China are starting to industrialize and increase their green house emissions, all the alarmists can do is point to them as if they are the real reason why global warming is getting worse. Let's just ignore the fact that America has been the leader in pollution for many more years.
Now wouldn't it be real embarrassing if China became more green then the US in a fraction of the time. With special interest groups and big business affecting policy decisions in Washington DC, I could definitely see something like this playing out. - mojoe1185, on 07/05/2008, -5/+20Too bad 100 GW is orders of magnitude away from how much power China will be consuming by then.
- PhonicUK, on 07/06/2008, -0/+12Couldn't they say 1337% just for ***** and giggles?
- inactive, on 07/06/2008, -2/+13China leads in solar panel production as well.
- arjie, on 07/06/2008, -0/+11Per capita the US is still the most polluting country, and those numbers aren't biased due to a small population. However, that statement is not intended as a it's-your-fault pointing finger, it's just a reminder that each of you has greater potential to reduce greenhouse gases than each of us in the developing world.
- Splicernyc, on 07/06/2008, -1/+11It goes to show the unbelievable stranglehold that the oil companies and their corporate stockholders have over energy policy in the United States. These folks are doing everything they can to milk the oil fields for every last bit of profit even if it means scuttling renewable energy advances over and over again.
Efficient cars, wind power, solar power, etcetera - the United States could be a technological leader in all of these if not for a greedy few. - inactive, on 07/06/2008, -0/+9Time to buy Chinese energy stocks. Get your money out of US stocks now. It's gonna tank. get your money out of US dollars now, it's gonna tank. Get yourself outta US now, it's gonna tank.
- desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -1/+10Calm down, Drake. You're missing the point. Totalitarian regimes, for all their faults, don't have to deal with a lot of the compromises that democracies do, such as when Castro forced college students to teach villagers to read and achieved near 100% literacy in a couple of years.
Nobody is saying this is how things should be. The fact remains that, if the Chinese gov't pushes a wind power agenda, it could dramatically alter the economics of wind power for the rest of the world, such as by instituting mass-produced turbines at previously impossibly low prices.
Sometimes good benefits spill over from bad political philosophies. We have to look at the good and bad, not just the bad, otherwise we're just as close-minded as the totalitarian leaders. - inactive, on 07/06/2008, -2/+10With China on-board, I'm sure we can greatly increase our expansion into alternative energy practices.
- desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -0/+7First rule of forecasting: Never assume a steady state -- expect 2nd and 3rd-order effects. Every society has a needs hierarchy. China is transitioning from a poor country worried about starvation to the world's largest middle class. Once the average family has a car, the next thing they'll demand is clean air. This is an unfolding process. I would not be at all surprised if they led the world in clean tech in 20 years, because they'll have the biggest mess to clean up.
This brilliant demonstration makes the future very clear: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/hans_rosling_sh ... - inactive, on 07/06/2008, -2/+9Wow, china is leaving the rest of the world eating dust. This is certainly the age of China.
- xkhaozx, on 07/06/2008, -2/+8Wow, talk about over generalization.
"equipment quality in China tends to be not very high"
I think you may be confused with American products manufactured in China.
"how much of the capacity is down because of problems (a very common occurrence in China)"
Yeah, how about some numbers to prove that "problems" occur more in China than other countries, instead of making such a random remark.
"(this is hopefully less common if the sites were chosen correctly.)"
Yes, because China scientists and engineers are obviously less competent than the almighty aki009, who knows exactly where to place wind generators.
"As a word of caution let's not forget that this is a _communist_ country that has a track record of caring more about how things look on paper than how well they work in reality"
First of all, China is _not_ a communist country. The closest thing to a communist country would be cuba, and even they aren't an exact communist country.
And obviously, China is the ONLY government in the world that believes perception is more important than results. I mean, there's no way politicians in the US try to pull off the same crap (thinkofthechildren laws anyone?). And either way, the entire idea that their just BSing this for publicity is completely retarded. China has a very strong motivation to lower their dependency on coal and oil. Their growth rate is massive, and they need to build a sustainable power supply, as well as start lowering the massive pollution they are creating.
Seriously though, what a random rant. - Kormiku, on 07/06/2008, -3/+9China is already leading the world in getting energy from solar panels. Almost every building is topped with solar panels, and almost all hot water in the country (from tap, and for showers and stuff) is powered by the sun.
- Kormiku, on 07/06/2008, -0/+6Im in northeast china and every building here uses solar power to heat the hot water tanks.
- DaDrake, on 07/06/2008, -10/+16And when damning the yaun river, they simply ordered million of families off their property without due process; they also somehow "forgot" to inform many residence (which drowned). Furthermore, the Chinese willingness to be organ donors is unmatch by the western world; apparently, felons line up in droves to be executed and have their organs "donated" for wealthy businessmen.
It is amazing what you get done with a total disregard for human life. The US still has Katrina victims living in temporary housing because of Americans feeling entitled to government handouts. Money allocated to Katrina victims far surpasses any other disaster and largely, it has gone down a big fat black hole. But by all means, if you are envious of the Chinese people... move there. - ButtSmudge, on 07/06/2008, -0/+6Shanghai dont really get a lot of sun compare to many other Chinese cities throughout the year. CNN did a piece on the solar panel boom in China. One of the city that get the most sun has already installed solar panel on majority of apt builidngs.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EqrKeqrkj3o - inactive, on 07/06/2008, -0/+6Source: TAN solar stocks index (ESLR, STP, YGE, LDK, FSLR, HOKU, CSIQ among many others). Most of these companies are Chinese.
- inactive, on 07/06/2008, -6/+11Yeah, unfortunately that permanent housing was inferior to the Katrina temporary housing.
China has thrown off all regards to safety and environmental concerns in its quest for growth. - aki009, on 07/05/2008, -9/+14This is positive news from a renewable energy production perspective.
However, I would clarify the article by adding that China has a stated capacity for wind energy production, which might be the stated 6 GW (I'm not disputing this number). However, this is likely misleading, as winds are not constant and equipment quality in China tends to be not very high. It would be more useful to state the actual annual production of wind energy in GWh (or MWh), as this would illustrate how much of the capacity is down because of problems (a very common occurrence in China), or producing poorly or not at all due to lack of sufficient airflow (this is hopefully less common if the sites were chosen correctly.)
As a word of caution let's not forget that this is a _communist_ country that has a track record of caring more about how things look on paper than how well they work in reality. I would not be surprised to find out that have placed capacity where it is not effectively utilized just to satisfy a capacity target on paper. - cdigioia, on 07/06/2008, -0/+5I do have an interest - & what city are you in? I'll try to check some data on how common such things are.
- gavinhudson, on 07/06/2008, -0/+5This is a valid concern. However as I mentioned, Steve Sawyer, secretary general of the Global Wind Energy Council, predicts that wind energy could comprise as much as 20% of China's energy needs by 2020.
- Kormiku, on 07/06/2008, -1/+6I could show you guys a picture outside of my window and 95% of buildings have solar panels on the roof. Sure they use coal fuel here also, but it is a fact that they lead the world in solar panel usage. I cant even remember seeing a single solar panel when i lived in america. Edit: its evening now, so I cant take a photo, but if you guys express interest, ill take one tomorrow and upload it so you can see.
- inactive, on 07/06/2008, -1/+6Hmm, poor and rich? Look at this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ...
- Jonez176, on 07/06/2008, -0/+520% is way too significant to be dropping phrases like "orders of magnitude" FYI
- Flytrap, on 07/06/2008, -1/+5At least that will be 100GW that does not pollute the air!
I'd rather all the leading consumers of energy (North America and Western Europe, included) were making the same kind of effort to reduce their dependence on fossil fuels, rather than letting their envy of China's phenomenal growth to catch up with the rest of the modern world cloud their logic with comments like the one you have just made! - tyho, on 07/06/2008, -1/+5It doesn't surprise me much that the anti-American posts get so many diggs anymore, but it does when rational arguments get dugg down.
It's also interesting to note that the US has reduced it's emissions more than almost all signatories of the Kyoto Protocol. - BillE3, on 07/06/2008, -0/+4With no enviro groups to stop the windwills because of bird strikes, I can imagine that China will build a lot of them. The wind mills near the Bay Area never turn because the birds of prey found them to be good nesting and roosting places with good hunting below.
- cg4et, on 07/05/2008, -1/+5my damn flux capacitor is on the fritz.
- Kvasaari, on 07/06/2008, -5/+9Amazing to see that poor communist China is more environmentally aware than rich USA.
- desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -1/+5All that power is for manufacturing your iPod, dumbass. Where do you think all the ***** Americans buy comes from?
Another stupid ass xenophobe.
If you can control your fears, try traveling abroad sometime, and not on a tour bus. You might actually learn something. - tyho, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4Thanks DaDrake for saying what was missing. So many here seem to have their rose colored glasses on when judging all countries but the US.
- inactive, on 07/07/2008, -0/+3No it's not. It's only inferior to you without even having researched it because you're an arrogant prick with a racial superiority complex that believes deep down Chinese can't build descent things, even though they produce 80% of the crap you consume while sitting on your fat arse criticising the crap you consume.
- randumbusername, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4environmentally aware? i read somewhere the U.S. is second in wind power usage to germany.
i don't care as i don't buy into the reneawable energy push. it is just a way for social elite (and people who like to believe they are part of the elite - which you seem to fit.) people with ***** else to do advance to feel good about themselves.
meanwhile the middle class gets *****. - DeadBabySoup, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3at least china is starting to do something about its energy use rather than americans bitching about ruining their ocean views....god forbid
- desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3China's population will be higher in 2020. ***** you're dumb. Short-term population forecasts are among the most reliable in demographics. Did you really think that demographers don't consider primary sex ratio in their models? *****, people on Digg are getting so ***** DUMB, it's mind-numbing.
I miss the old Digg! Note to dumb people, please just read and don't post here unless you have relevant knowledge. - MacParrot, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3Apparently he claims to be from Muscat, not the US. Except Muscat (yes, I've been there) sucks as well.
- trollick, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3I think my wind energy use could increase by 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% by 2020. (I pretty much use none now)
- Kormiku, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3you are right desert
- Kormiku, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4thats the truth
- Wrangler76, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3What? Do you think if the USA over-populated in the future, the government would quickly act and implement a 1-child policy? While India's population continues to spiral out of control, China's doing something. Why can't India, with a huge population as well, modernize as fast? Do you think the USA would order its population to plant billions of trees in the face of desertification? Economists have even said that China's system may be better for developing countries. Yes, it IS much more efficient when the government doesn't have to account for each of its citizens' needs and jump through red tape hoopla for everything. THAT is a fact. For good or for worse? That is where the debate should start.
- desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2randumb: "i don't buy into the renewable energy push"... I'm guessing you're neither an engineer nor a business person? Allow me to drop a free $100 bill into your lap: There has never been a more perfect storm of a global trend than we are witnessing today, and ANYBODY with a little bit of smarts can have a seat at the table, just by placing bets the same places the auto and energy companies are hedging (they're buying alt energy, lithium ion battery companies, etc.). I've already made $35K in green tech and oil stocks, and it will frankly be easy to do so as long as there are still naysayers. When comments like yours come to a stop however, it will be time to get out of the market, because all of the bears will have climbed on the bandwagon and there will be no more entrants. Thank god for information asymmetry, laggards, and oddly rare foresight to accept one simple truism: things change.
- aki009, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Yes. For export. Your point?
- Wrangler76, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Aki: they are doing this out of NECESSITY- not to put things on paper. They cannot continue to consume the huge amount of fossil fuels that they are doing now for another 50 years. They know this. There's only a certain amount of coal in the lungs that their population will take before mass rioting. As I have said elsewhere, this is both good and bad. They get things done much faster and don't have to worry about corporations bitching about loss of profits, but they can also do almost whatever they want to their population.
- aki009, on 07/06/2008, -1/+3Buried for receiving the Most Ignorant Stupid Statement of the day award.
- inactive, on 07/07/2008, -1/+3All those forced to move from their run down villages in china due to the dam construction have had medium density housing constructed for them with electricity and running water on higher ground. For free.
You speak ***** old chap. - desertDenizen, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Dugg down this Brown for misuse of "hippy." Get your insults straight. (Hippies are counter-culturalists; environmentalism went mainstream a long time ago.)
- Barackalypse, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Ok, here's a tip, when discussing alternative energy (sources that have highly variable instantaneous outputs) you should be quoting how much energy it produces per year or some other suitable amount of time, not how much instantaneous power it is capable of producing under whatever rated conditions. A 200 watt solar panel doesn't tell me how much energy I can expect it to produce unless you tell me where it is, that panel produces perhaps 0.7 kilowatt hours per day by me, but in California it would produce closer to 1.2 kilowatt hours per day. So of China's 6 GW, how many kilowatt hours per year is it actually producing?
- aki009, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2?? The only connection to this discussion is if China were to use solar power, but right now they are simply a cheap source for other countries that use solar power. If it were cheaper to make them in Zimbabwe, Z would be the next leader in solar panel production. What matters is their _use_, and except for some showcase projects, China has not done much about it. That's not leadership.
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