What is Digg?179 Comments
- wohho, on 02/16/2008, -3/+38Holy crap, I want a civic diesel NOW
- rollem, on 02/16/2008, -1/+26Hypermileing techniques can be used to get great mileage from many cars. The problem is that nobody drives that way. Observe the typical acceleration from stoplights. So much gas is wasted because people enjoy aggressive driving and no car can fix human nature. Hybrids capture wasted breaking energy, a great improvement, and also tend to have mileage displays, a feature that should be put in all cars to get people to learn how their driving style affects fuel use.
- SVOboy, on 02/16/2008, -1/+26Great article, now if we could only get some more of these cars in the US we'd be set. One or two models just isn't enough...time to demand a FE model for most every car, I think.
- Animental, on 02/16/2008, -2/+25My '03 Golf TDi gets 45 on a good day, 35 if I drive like an idiot. Biodiesel decreases performance in my car slightly but increases fuel efficiency. I love diesels. I don't think I'll ever go back.
- benwojdyla, on 02/16/2008, -1/+21Actually, we filled the tanks to the point of overfill each time so we were more accurate than the car and the pump. 72mpg is the number.
- Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -1/+20I'm a little irked by the Japanese car companies. What they sell as "premium" brands in the U.S., they sell under their regular brand to the rest of the world. Looking at a diesel civil I get the feeling that Honda played a prank on U.S. car buyers. "Oh you know that wonderful mileage you get in the Civic Hybrid? Ha ha...we got something better using 100 year old technology."
- inactive, on 02/16/2008, -3/+19it is our civic duty to buy civics..... (it's ok... i was leaving anyway)
- dsmx, on 02/16/2008, -0/+12Makes no difference how you measure it, it manages a higher mpg than any hybrid and it's a better all round car.
- DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -1/+13I think you have it backwards. Trip 'dometer, gallons purchased and basic math is always more accurate than than those computers which are usually more optimistic than human math.
- BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+11Until recently these vehicles couldn't be brough there because our diesel fuel was so ***** full of sulfur. Now we've finally cleaned up our fuel and the new diesels are coming over. Plus there's the concern from many car companies that stupid Americans that recall nothing about diesels other than the truly ***** GM Oldsmobile efforts won't buy them for fear of ending up with the same sort of POS that GM once sold.
- Hosalabad, on 02/16/2008, -2/+12Braking is to slow a car. Breaking is to damage it.
There are problems with these so called hyper milers, namely that they are dangerous drivers. Running near the minimum speed limit on congested highways, turning off the motor (which leaves you about 2 pumps on the brake before you lose your vacuum or hydraulic assist) and my favorite, driving at reckless speeds through turns and offramps for the sake of increasing the distance that can be coasted. They might save a little gas driving home at 50 on the highway, but they are just going to cause everyone else to waste even more as they have to make their way through the backup caused by this type of driving. - vlovoguy, on 02/16/2008, -2/+10No kidding, what do we get, like a diesel Jeep Liberty and thats it, weak
- Lane, on 02/16/2008, -1/+9Ladies and gentlemen: start your imports!
- burningmanstan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+8There are several clean diesel systems on new US diesel cars that meet emissions in all 50 states. Dirty diesel is a public perception that is obsolete. All these new systems decrease particulate matter. For once car manufacturers are getting it right. Responding to regulations and public demand by adapting with new technology. Now if the public could just keep up, that would be great.
- blagger80, on 02/16/2008, -3/+10I so want that civic in a bad way.
- Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7Diesel cars put out less CO2 than their gasoline counterparts. The smokey particulates of old were due largely to the fact that U.S. refineries put out crappy diesel.
- inurb, on 02/16/2008, -0/+6Can't wait for large scale algae biodiesel reactors here in the states!
- TJ11240, on 02/16/2008, -2/+8I want a diesel civic so hard.
- DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5how can peak oil be a fraud? there hasn't been biomass on Earth for a period longer than Earth's existence I would assume, so it's impossible for there to be an inexhaustible supply of fossil fuel, right?
- wwnexc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5VW Golf Diesels gets a pretty damn good mileage, too.
- Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5Yeah basically our image of diesel has been partially shaped buy the lazy U.S refining industry and psychological games of the car companies.
- Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -2/+7Actually a lot of them do now...since we've mandated low-sulfur diesel. I refineries were giving us ***** diesel fuel.
- SweetBearCub, on 02/16/2008, -1/+6I'd love to see an upstart company design a standard platform that incorporated diesel & electric, with the option of plugging the car into a plug in your garage to extend its range.
They could use this standard platform, with minimal modifications, to create all their vehicles, from the basic 2 door coupe, all the way up to a 15/18 passenger/cargo van.
These theoretical vehicles would have amazing fuel mileage, relatively low purchase costs (since the same basic platform is shared among all models, seriously reducing ongoing R & D costs), and greatly reduced repair costs (again, due to the common platform).
Hell, in theory, it would be possible to say, buy the 2 door coupe version as a kid, and when you get a bit more.. umm.. seasoned, bring the vehicle back in and have the body swapped for a more versatile (likely larger) one, at a very reduced price compared to trading it in on a new vehicle. This conversion might take a few days or weeks, but the dealer could cover that by providing a free or seriously discounted rental.
Something like this might have the potential to build serious brand loyalty, and in this case, I don't see it as a bad thing.
Of course, I'm SURE there's a lot of problems inherant (sp?) in this proposal, such as government regulation (EPA, CARB, NHTSA, etc..), building of manufacturing plants and a network of exclusive dealers (expensive as all hell!), creating advertising to educate the public (many people still hate diesel engines, no matter how good they are), and other stuff, but then again, this is only an idea fleshed out inside of 5 minutes by one guy who's bored at the moment, not a bona-fide 100% thought out business proposal.
And now, for the obligatory line of legalese:
"Idea © Original Poster, All Rights Reserved." - dhughes, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5 Even better is a diesel vehicle with a manual transmission since the drag the fluid in an automatic transmission has lowers your mpg.
- rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5What are you talking about? These tests were done in the US. They are going by US gallons.
- BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Eh?! they computed the fuel mileage based off of pump receipts not based on the MPG meter. They drove this in the US, how do you figure the US pumps were filling in Imperial gallons?
- themonkman, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Modern diesels are extremely quiet these days due to major acoustic improvements. Also, when using Ultra Low Sulfur diesel (which is now law in many states) it doesn't smell any worse than gasoline exhaust. Also, diesel puts out less greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline. The black soot you see from larger trucks is pure carbon which does not stay in the air because of it's weight. It floats down and biodegrades with no environmental side-effects. The efficiency of diesel engines are magnitudes greater than gasoline because when diesel explodes it creates more energy, thus more mileage for fewer revolutions of the engines cycle. I have a '98 Jetta TDI that gets about 45mpg highway and 40 in city. I'd like to see more than 1 or 2 1.8L gasoline cars that get that. Even though diesel now costs more at the pump (I don't know why. It's cheaper to make that gas), I make up for it by getting anywhere from 2-3x the mileage of your gasoline models. I forgot to mention, I'm getting this type of performance with a Jetta TDI that has over 200K miles. It'll easily last to 300K, since the engine is mostly made of iron, rather than aluminum blocks. Keep your gasoline, because you're getting raped at the pump and your car won't last as long :)
- sulliwan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Kids, this is why you don't skip math class.
5.8l/100km = 40.5mpg - lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4@davidrools: They're talking about diesel, which evaporates much more slowly that gasonline ( http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm ).
- BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Sorry, you're wrong on many counts. When I purchased my VW TDI Ihad to get on a waiting list. they sold every single one they could import and many dealers tacked on multi-thousand dollar premiums too. The sulfur thing is also overblown, you've obviously not researched what's been done with the new emission systems. They have also cleaned up the particulate emissions on the new systems, so much for soot. Oil companies have zip to do with the sales unless you count price gouging, ignorance much like you've displayed on the other hand likely does....
- EtherGnat, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Using optomistic estimates for the amount of oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge there are 10 billion gallons of oil--not even enough to supply the needs of the United States for a year and a half. Peak oil isn't about the end of oil, it's about the end of CHEAP oil. All the oil in the world doesn't do us any good if it's too expensive, or if it takes more energy to extract it than we get out of it.
Predictions for when peak oil happens may be significantly off, but with growing population, growing per capita oil consumption, and a fixed supply of oil I guarantee you it will happen sooner or later. - ozid, on 02/16/2008, -1/+5davidrools: Benzene is a product of combusted and evaporated gasoline. When you burn the gasoline, you have several other byproducts that are much more harmful than benzene alone. Not to mention most modern cars (I'm talking about almost every fuel injected car) must have a sealed gas tank, hence why you are supposed to click your gas cap shut.
That excess gasoline will not effect the environment any worse that the evaporated gas that escapes any time you open your gas gap and hear the gas releasing. If it remains liquid, it will be forced into the gas tank eventually anyways. Stop exaggerating. - opnickc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Don't most new cars have milage displays? Seems like every car model 2004 and newer I've driven/ridden in has.
Also, letting a computer pilot the automobile would fix that little bit of human nature, provided people used it. A few years off, to be sure, but feasible. - burningmanstan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4The technology has improved and there are now diesels that meet emissions in all 50 states. Reality has changed, try to keep up. Diesels on offer in the US now include a diesel BMW 3 series and a diesel VW jetta.
http://www.hybridcars.com/shop-by-technology/diese ... - themonkman, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Shawn, you are wrong. You can make biodiesel from a wide array of organic sources. It can come from used vegetable oil, animal grease, even algae. Algae would be a perfect organic to use because it can grow so rapidly. There are also ways to add an oil reservoir tank that can feed used filtered waste oils (like from any McDonalds or mexican food restaurant) directly to the engine and run off of it once the vehicle is warmed up by driving on regular diesel.
- screamokid, on 02/16/2008, -0/+392 bmw 318is (5-speed), 42 mpg and its 1.8 liter 4 cylinder sounded like a lawnmower
next year bmw is bringing its diesels that even people in CA can own - radix2, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3modern diesels are very quiet (especially the turbos). The stinkiness is due to high levels of sulfur in the fuel. The US (generally) is finally getting around to addressing this as has been done in Europe and most other places for 5-10 years.
I would like two cars. One that runs on pertol/gas for quick dashes on the weekend, and a diesel or hybrid or electric for the rest of the time. - lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3The argument "I don't feel safe in a small car" is rubbish. The reason modern cars are often written off in accidents is because they are designed to crumple and absorb the force that would otherwise be transferred to your body. I'd much rather have my insurance replace my car than have to pay for my medical bills after an accident.
- KaJuN4, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I really don't understand why we're so anti-diesel here in the US. As far as I can tell pollution is the main concern but that only makes the issue all the more confusing. Here in Ohio they've done away with emissions checks in several counties. You can't tell me the government is concerned about pollution when they stop checking cars for compliance. I get the sense it's more about money than anything else.
- rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3It's an SUV, it weighs over 5000lbs.... How much does the corvette way, and how much does it hold?
- rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I very highly doubt your 4.0 v6 explorer gets 25mpg going over 60mph(the v8 will be even worse of course if you have that.) My 2000 3.0 v6 ford ranger, which weighs less too, gets maybe 23mpg at a constant 60mph.(New plugs, wires, oxygen sensors and fuel filter.) Your explorer certainly doesn't get 25 at normal highway speeds. Cut the BS.
- BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I've got a Jetta TDI that's still being broken in. The MPG meter is about 14% optimistic but checking receipts I'm pushing high 30s in mixed driving - this with the DSG "automatic" that anyone could drive. The MPG meter most certainly does help you monitor your driving! This is a newer body style Jetta that is as big as the older Passats so lots of room! Considering my daily commute though I'd probbaly have done better with a plug-in or a regualr hybrid. The smaller Golf TDI get way better MPG due to their lighter weight but I many won't like the smaller size.
As for Biodiesel - you will get LOWER MPG not higher with that fuel. It's more friendly to the environment but it has fewer BTU per gallon much like alcohol vs gasoline or a gasohol blend. VW will also only warrant the drivetrain up to a fairly small percentage of Bio. :-( There are concerns over lubrication of the pump (residual methanol from production) and of the injectors which can supposedly clog more easily with their small ports and high pressures. I'd still like to be running BD and VW says they are "testing" but around here BD costs MORE so to heck with it. It's nice going like 530+miles on a tank though! :-D Highway mileage, when we drive it, is even higher. Like the fuel savings so much we own TWO TDI BTW...
Anyway for those interested in learning more about the diesel cars that can be had here now (used though since VW has yet to start reimporting!!) check out http://tdiclub.com/ - smacksaw, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Everyone can say they want this car, but it's pointless. We don't have the refining capacity for all of you people to drive them. VW makes about 1-2% of their cars diesel. Why? Because 1-2% of gas production is for passenger diesels.
If they offered more of them they would sell them. And then there would be less diesel to go around, driving prices up even further.
Carmakers aren't stupid. They want to sell us these cars. It's the EPA, environmentalist wackos and NIMBYs that are the problem. If we COULD BUILD NEW REFINERIES FOR DIESEL it would not be a problem. But no one can/will do it. And so we have no diesel.
What irks me is that the people most concerned about the environment are the ones who fight the hardest against new diesel refining capacity. I care about the environment, but I will never call myself an environmentalist. Greenpeace will never get any money from me - nothing but my scorn until they lobby the EPA to allow ExxonMobil to open more diesel refineries. And they won't, so there you go.
If you think this is a great car and you want it, QUIT BUGGING HONDA. Start talking about more refineries. FOR DIESEL. - exomni, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Actually, if you're driving a stick, employing rapid upshifting and heavy acceleration to your target speed will give you better fuel economy.
Of course, if you're in an automatic, it won't shift that way, and you'll have to waste fuel trying to get the perfect RPM off a light.
That being said, the rapid upshifting method must be employed using forsight and planning: no use getting into your target speed if you're going to have to brake ahead because of a bus or something. - rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Actually if you watched the video, I believe they did it to overflow, not clicking. So the pump would make no difference, and the overflow method would be accurate, probably to 1mpg when all the math was done..
- exomni, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Ugh. More computers are not necessary good for fuel economy. If you really want to achieve hypermiling you need to drive stick.
- K31TH3R, on 02/16/2008, -1/+3how not? The car did not have as much power while using biodiesel but his MPG improved. Makes sense to me.
- KaJuN4, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2A while back I rode along on a lengthy roadtrip in a VW Golf and it wasn't until we stopped for fuel that I realized it was a diesel. It pulled like a gasoline engine, revved like a gasoline engine, it even sounded like a gasoline engine. All that from a car that was made around 2000.
- rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2They used ultra low sulfur diesel in these tests...and the owners/manufacturers of these European spec vehicles certainly would of said "no" if it was going to damage them. Fact is it does not, just like it does not hurt pre2007 US vehicles. Ofcourse they still do not meet emmissions standards, but this "technology" is not needed to run the ULSulfur diesel.
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