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Blogger gets 72 mpg from stock Euro Honda Civic diesel

jalopnik.com — What we're going to do is hypermile these cars. Although, much like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, we're not sure you can handle the truth. To be perfectly honest, we were shocked ourselves. Shocked and giddy,

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  • wohho, on 02/16/2008, -3/+39Holy crap, I want a civic diesel NOW
    • rollem, on 02/16/2008, -13/+4Wait... 72 mpg was calculated using the fuel pump, which is far less accurate than the car's computer, which can actually directly measure how much fuel was used. It calculated 63 mpg. Fuel pumps are all a bit different and will shut off the flow at slightly different levels.
      • benwojdyla, on 02/16/2008, -1/+21Actually, we filled the tanks to the point of overfill each time so we were more accurate than the car and the pump. 72mpg is the number.
        • davidrools, on 02/16/2008, -8/+2which is, by the way, a great way to pollute the air more than driving a gas guzzler. gasoline that evaporates into the air (which it does very quickly) is like 100 times worse than when it gets burned in the engine and catalyzed before leaving the exhaust. DON'T TOP OFF IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT!
        • ozid, on 02/16/2008, -1/+5davidrools: Benzene is a product of combusted and evaporated gasoline. When you burn the gasoline, you have several other byproducts that are much more harmful than benzene alone. Not to mention most modern cars (I'm talking about almost every fuel injected car) must have a sealed gas tank, hence why you are supposed to click your gas cap shut.

          That excess gasoline will not effect the environment any worse that the evaporated gas that escapes any time you open your gas gap and hear the gas releasing. If it remains liquid, it will be forced into the gas tank eventually anyways. Stop exaggerating.
        • lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4@davidrools: They're talking about diesel, which evaporates much more slowly that gasonline ( http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm ).
      • dsmx, on 02/16/2008, -0/+12Makes no difference how you measure it, it manages a higher mpg than any hybrid and it's a better all round car.
      • davidrools, on 02/16/2008, -1/+1I was thinking the same thing until I read ben's comment. Given that they topped off to overfilling, even being off by as much as 2 cups of fuel would still leave an impressive 66.7mpg. Any kind of thermal expansion would be negligible. The odometer's accuracy could be compromised if the tires have a larger diameter than as calibrated, but that's unlikely.
        Technically, yes, the test should be carried out over a much longer distance, with precise measurement of fuel consumed, and repeated several times. But, the effect of drafting behind a semi is VERY significant.
    • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -1/+13I think you have it backwards. Trip 'dometer, gallons purchased and basic math is always more accurate than than those computers which are usually more optimistic than human math.
      • tightscrummy, on 02/16/2008, -3/+1That doesn't work in cars like the Prius that have a fuel tank with a variable volume though.
        • lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2That's all well and good, but we aren't talking about a Prius here.
    • ozid, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2I really like the new hatchback civics vs... say... a prius. Same style look, but a its a whole fleet of cars in europe. the type-r is interesting as well.

      the audi is just sex.
    • sporg, on 02/16/2008, -4/+2Any small Honda Civic can get very good mileage when driven in a reasonable manner. You wont get 70mpg with normal driving in any vehicle. Im already tired of hearing about this "hypermilling" nonsense.

      BURIED.
    • AnotherJewboy, on 02/16/2008, -3/+1Have you ever gotten in an accident with a civic? A small accident is a write off for a civic.
      • Astaro, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2I dont know what you call a small accident, but I dont want to have on.

        a civic is a perfectly serviceable, and survivable car.
      • lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3The argument "I don't feel safe in a small car" is rubbish. The reason modern cars are often written off in accidents is because they are designed to crumple and absorb the force that would otherwise be transferred to your body. I'd much rather have my insurance replace my car than have to pay for my medical bills after an accident.
        • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2There are some small unsafe cars that give the small cars a bad name.
  • SVOboy, on 02/16/2008, -1/+27Great article, now if we could only get some more of these cars in the US we'd be set. One or two models just isn't enough...time to demand a FE model for most every car, I think.
    • vlovoguy, on 02/16/2008, -2/+10No kidding, what do we get, like a diesel Jeep Liberty and thats it, weak
      • smacksaw, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Even that is gone. My 2006 is the last model year. Shame, too. I got 30mpg from Vancouver to Portland and back with it's ***** aerodynamics and going 6+ MPH over the limit the whole time.
        • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Wasn't it priced much higher (out of reach) than the standard Liberty?
    • capiCrimm, on 02/16/2008, -6/+1Hypermiling techniques work in any car. You can get 75mpg in American-made gass guzzlers if you know what your doing. In newer hybrids people can get 150+mpg.
      • lerker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1If you read the article, you'd realise that they didn't do anything special (aside from slipstream the odd semi-trailer) to achieve that impressive mileage.
    • battletrax, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2You know gas in europe is $6-$10 a gallon, so really they need this more than we do.
      • ThyLabyrinth, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Here in the Netherlands we officially have the most expensive gas at the pump. Today's price is US$8.55/gal. for the lowest octane. (€1.55/liter)
        Norway is second most expensive. The list came from CNN I think.
  • rollem, on 02/16/2008, -1/+27Hypermileing techniques can be used to get great mileage from many cars. The problem is that nobody drives that way. Observe the typical acceleration from stoplights. So much gas is wasted because people enjoy aggressive driving and no car can fix human nature. Hybrids capture wasted breaking energy, a great improvement, and also tend to have mileage displays, a feature that should be put in all cars to get people to learn how their driving style affects fuel use.
    • opnickc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Don't most new cars have milage displays? Seems like every car model 2004 and newer I've driven/ridden in has.

      Also, letting a computer pilot the automobile would fix that little bit of human nature, provided people used it. A few years off, to be sure, but feasible.
      • capiCrimm, on 02/16/2008, -2/+3I like my manual transmission and that's getting rarer everyday(even in sports cars). It'll be a sad day when people stop driving completely.
      • exomni, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Ugh. More computers are not necessary good for fuel economy. If you really want to achieve hypermiling you need to drive stick.
    • exomni, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Actually, if you're driving a stick, employing rapid upshifting and heavy acceleration to your target speed will give you better fuel economy.

      Of course, if you're in an automatic, it won't shift that way, and you'll have to waste fuel trying to get the perfect RPM off a light.

      That being said, the rapid upshifting method must be employed using forsight and planning: no use getting into your target speed if you're going to have to brake ahead because of a bus or something.
      • potisreallygood, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1not true, most newer cars are capable of skipping gears automatically(1st to 4th), as well as having manumatic shifters, plus overdrive has been common for decades.
    • Hosalabad, on 02/16/2008, -2/+12Braking is to slow a car. Breaking is to damage it.

      There are problems with these so called hyper milers, namely that they are dangerous drivers. Running near the minimum speed limit on congested highways, turning off the motor (which leaves you about 2 pumps on the brake before you lose your vacuum or hydraulic assist) and my favorite, driving at reckless speeds through turns and offramps for the sake of increasing the distance that can be coasted. They might save a little gas driving home at 50 on the highway, but they are just going to cause everyone else to waste even more as they have to make their way through the backup caused by this type of driving.
      • capiCrimm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2I support hypermiling to an extent. It does show where our inefficiencies are and gives us goals to match. However, I'm mainly pissed because the last time I mentioned hypermiling in a gas article everyone dugg me down and laughed at how stupid and dangerous it would be to drive like that.. Now it's on the damn front page. You Hypocrites.
      • exomni, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2P&G is a terrible idea, and is only one hypermiling technique. Hypermiling is simply safe, defensive driving. It is wonderful for congestion. If everyone was economy minded, there wouldn't be traffic jams:

        http://amasci.com/amateur/traffic/trafexp.html

        Again: P&G is NOT good for hypermiling, no true hypermiler would use this technique!
      • LinusTheLim, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Those techniques you mentioned can be dangerous, but you don't have to be that extreme to improve your mileage. I learned the pattern of stoplights on the routes I drove, accelerated slowly, braked minimally, coasted to red lights, and improved my mileage by 20% in city driving. It did not add any time to my time spent on the road, since in city driving most of that time is spent waiting for traffic at lights. Some drivers may have been irritated, but I don't feel bad because as I accelerate slowly and coast to the next red light, they accelerate fast, pull in front of me, and speed away, then slam on the brake when they don't make the green light. 45 seconds later the light turns green as I roll to the intersection right behind them, having sacrificed none of my precious momentum and mileage by braking unnecessarily. My pokey driving did nothing to make their commute any worse nor did it produce backups that stretched for miles behind me.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Electric boosted brakes, electric boosted steering rack. You do realize that diesel do not produce vacuum without a pump right? Certainly driving stupid is just that but you weren't 100% accurate either.
      • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I can't imagine people are using this technique with a diesel. You could destroy things pretty quick. Especially with a turbo.
        • BLKMGK, on 02/17/2008, -0/+1Turbos are tougher than you think and water cooled bearings help prevent coking of the bearings pretty effectively. Unless you've been hammering it the turbo isn't that hot anyway. Not that I've ever had one glowing or anything :P
    • davidrools, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2Electric cars exhibit better overall thermodynamic efficiency, so even when driven hard, they'll be greener than gas/diesel vehicles. But yes the lead foot is a big energy waster...but so much fun!
      • sporg, on 02/16/2008, -3/+3Oh yeah they are so much greener. /sarcasm.

        You clearly dont know how much petroleum it takes to manufacture the expensive batteries required for an electric car. Then when the batteries reach the end of their useful life they must be disposed of as toxic waste. So much greener LMAO!
        • tightscrummy, on 02/16/2008, -3/+3Do you at least get paid to spread this FUD?
          • sporg, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2I would explain to you why you are total tit but I haven't the time. So please do me a favor and piss off.
    • jessi74, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1rollem is correct; Hypermiling can get good results from traditional cars, especially ones with small engines, tall gearing, and manual transmissions. In my 1.8L Toyota Celica, for instance, I can get 42 mpg in mixed city/highway driving by careful acceleration, rolling stoplights, and coasting. It's not exactly rocket science, and it doesn't require hauling around several hundred pounds of batteries that gas-electric hybrids need replaced every 10 years (my car is already 12 years old).

      I just wish my 5th gear was taller.
  • blagger80, on 02/16/2008, -3/+10I so want that civic in a bad way.
  • Animental, on 02/16/2008, -2/+25My '03 Golf TDi gets 45 on a good day, 35 if I drive like an idiot. Biodiesel decreases performance in my car slightly but increases fuel efficiency. I love diesels. I don't think I'll ever go back.
    • earlycj5, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2My '99 Golf TDI got 57 best, averaged 45 when I had to sell it to to go back to school. Worst was 42 IIRC, it was a 5 spd., two door though. I miss that car. Hard to find that combo in the States.

      Wish I didn't have to go back to my wife's Golf 2.0.

      School is almost done, a new Jetta TDI may be in the future though.
      • djk21108, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I have a Golf 2.0. I hate that it's the slowest vehicle on earth. I have to drive like a maniac to get up hills. This renders about 17 MPG on a good day. Thanks Volkswagen, assholes.
    • screamokid, on 02/16/2008, -0/+392 bmw 318is (5-speed), 42 mpg and its 1.8 liter 4 cylinder sounded like a lawnmower

      next year bmw is bringing its diesels that even people in CA can own
      • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I have my sites on a 335d right now.
      • smacksaw, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1My 1998 318ti never got better than 35 MPG...42 seems ambitious.
    • dhughes, on 02/16/2008, -6/+2"Biodiesel decreases performance in my car slightly but increases fuel efficiency"

      That doesn't make sense.
      • K31TH3R, on 02/16/2008, -1/+3how not? The car did not have as much power while using biodiesel but his MPG improved. Makes sense to me.
      • exomni, on 02/16/2008, -1/+3Just because you can't make sense of it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

        And for the record: it makes sense.
        • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Not when you consider that BD has less BTU per gallon than petro diesel....
        • KLowD9x, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2But, biodiesel is a better lubricant than conventional diesel. Lubrication of the cylinders causes a nice reduction in internal engine friction.

          This effect can be observed on gasoline engines if a lubricant (like Lucas Oils fuel additive) is used.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I've got a Jetta TDI that's still being broken in. The MPG meter is about 14% optimistic but checking receipts I'm pushing high 30s in mixed driving - this with the DSG "automatic" that anyone could drive. The MPG meter most certainly does help you monitor your driving! This is a newer body style Jetta that is as big as the older Passats so lots of room! Considering my daily commute though I'd probbaly have done better with a plug-in or a regualr hybrid. The smaller Golf TDI get way better MPG due to their lighter weight but I many won't like the smaller size.

      As for Biodiesel - you will get LOWER MPG not higher with that fuel. It's more friendly to the environment but it has fewer BTU per gallon much like alcohol vs gasoline or a gasohol blend. VW will also only warrant the drivetrain up to a fairly small percentage of Bio. :-( There are concerns over lubrication of the pump (residual methanol from production) and of the injectors which can supposedly clog more easily with their small ports and high pressures. I'd still like to be running BD and VW says they are "testing" but around here BD costs MORE so to heck with it. It's nice going like 530+miles on a tank though! :-D Highway mileage, when we drive it, is even higher. Like the fuel savings so much we own TWO TDI BTW...

      Anyway for those interested in learning more about the diesel cars that can be had here now (used though since VW has yet to start reimporting!!) check out http://tdiclub.com/
      • kreneskyp, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2he isnt exaggerating with the size of the new jetta. its enormous compared to old jettas. its their economy version but its more comparable to other companies luxury model (ie. accord, rather than civic).
    • kreneskyp, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2I wish my new jetta was a TDI. they 2008 arent available till later in the year and my old car was dying. I had to settle for the regular kind. At least its only leased and i can turn it in for TDI in a few years.
  • Lane, on 02/16/2008, -1/+10Ladies and gentlemen: start your imports!
  • BuzzDiggity, on 02/16/2008, -3/+19it is our civic duty to buy civics..... (it's ok... i was leaving anyway)
  • TJ11240, on 02/16/2008, -2/+8I want a diesel civic so hard.
  • Turpitude, on 02/16/2008, -1/+1I thought it was 90 mpg
  • cledford, on 02/16/2008, -14/+9It's still ugly... oh, and it's still a civic.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Hard to remember silly things like that when you go can go WEEKS between fill ups.
    • K31TH3R, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Yeah i've been decently fond of civics for a long time, my first car was a civic. but this thing is absolutely HIDEOUS. horrible styling IMO.
    • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1It starts out ugly but you can just put clear tail lights and a wing on it and you have a cool car.
  • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -19/+6Euro diesels don't meet united states emissions standards -- clean sky is good for me
    • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -10/+3yup, just keep digging down reality
      • sum33t, on 02/16/2008, -1/+3No. We'll keep digging down the dumb ass.
    • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -2/+7Actually a lot of them do now...since we've mandated low-sulfur diesel. I refineries were giving us ***** diesel fuel.
      • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -2/+3um yeah, the united states only allows ULTRA low sulfur diesel -- as in 15 ppm while the european union currently requires a max 350 ppm
    • burningmanstan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4The technology has improved and there are now diesels that meet emissions in all 50 states. Reality has changed, try to keep up. Diesels on offer in the US now include a diesel BMW 3 series and a diesel VW jetta.

      http://www.hybridcars.com/shop-by-technology/diese ...
      • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -2/+1Maybe you're the one who needs to "keep up" little dogie -- from the very site you gave me:

        "However, the [vw] Touareg TDI is not the example to use when arguing that diesel power is more efficient than gasoline power. The Touareg TDI is rated at 15 city/20 Highway. Those figures are better than that of the standard gas-powered Touareg, but by a very thin margin. Beyond efficiency, this SUV’s advanced diesel engine burns clean enough to be 42-state legal. It does not make the cut with air quality standards in California and much of the Northeast."

        You see, this lack of efficiency is due to the fact that -- like catalytic converters on your current car -- the steps the manufacturer needs to take to make diesel meet air quality standards significantly impairs fuel economy. Oh, that's also not "all 50 states" either. The BMW is clear in all 50, yet its highway economy is "estimated" at 25. Wow -- my bloody 10 year old ford explorer can do better than that!
        • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I very highly doubt your 4.0 v6 explorer gets 25mpg going over 60mph(the v8 will be even worse of course if you have that.) My 2000 3.0 v6 ford ranger, which weighs less too, gets maybe 23mpg at a constant 60mph.(New plugs, wires, oxygen sensors and fuel filter.) Your explorer certainly doesn't get 25 at normal highway speeds. Cut the BS.
        • burningmanstan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1You are trying to bash diesels based on the specs of a V10 SUV and a sports sedan. Both the jetta and the bmw get better mileage than the ones on offer now in the US. Some diesels on the market suck just like some hybrids suck that doesn't make them all suck. VW will improve the Toureg in 2009 "VW has reported that the V10 TDI will likely be phased out in favor of a smaller 3-liter V6 turbodiesel in 2009. The reason for the move is three-pronged. First, the V10 is much more costly, which has resulted in a very limited sales volume. Secondly, the new V6 powertrain will have a urea-based diesel exhaust treatment that will make it 50-state legal. And lastly, though it will certainly not have the raw power that the current engine has, the smaller, lighter diesel will drink less fuel. In the end, then new V6 will be priced lower, be more widely available, and have better efficiency. Who can argue with that?

          The jetta gets 50mpg

          The main point is that there is potential for mileage improvement and diesel is no longer dirty.
    • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -5/+1I detect that some of you aren't tuned into reality enough to get the main idea -- the "advanced technology" that allows diesel to be used with ultra low sulfur diesel in U.S. diesel models that meet emissions standards simultaneously hinder fuel economy. In other words: Europeans are trading fuel economy for air quality.
      • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2They used ultra low sulfur diesel in these tests...and the owners/manufacturers of these European spec vehicles certainly would of said "no" if it was going to damage them. Fact is it does not, just like it does not hurt pre2007 US vehicles. Ofcourse they still do not meet emmissions standards, but this "technology" is not needed to run the ULSulfur diesel.
  • inurb, on 02/16/2008, -0/+6Can't wait for large scale algae biodiesel reactors here in the states!
  • mrzack, on 02/16/2008, -8/+3Very good, Peak oil is a fraud. China, Mexico, USA Alaska have so much oil it's ridiculous. OPEC can't even compare. it's about monopoly.
    • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5how can peak oil be a fraud? there hasn't been biomass on Earth for a period longer than Earth's existence I would assume, so it's impossible for there to be an inexhaustible supply of fossil fuel, right?
    • EtherGnat, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Using optomistic estimates for the amount of oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge there are 10 billion gallons of oil--not even enough to supply the needs of the United States for a year and a half. Peak oil isn't about the end of oil, it's about the end of CHEAP oil. All the oil in the world doesn't do us any good if it's too expensive, or if it takes more energy to extract it than we get out of it.

      Predictions for when peak oil happens may be significantly off, but with growing population, growing per capita oil consumption, and a fixed supply of oil I guarantee you it will happen sooner or later.
    • kreneskyp, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2its a fraud. thats why the ceo of shell came out and gave his prediction we would hit peak oil in 2015
  • madcat1212, on 02/16/2008, -14/+6EXTRA EXTRA:
    Another digg user lies about fuel mileage in blog to reach front page!
  • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -1/+21I'm a little irked by the Japanese car companies. What they sell as "premium" brands in the U.S., they sell under their regular brand to the rest of the world. Looking at a diesel civil I get the feeling that Honda played a prank on U.S. car buyers. "Oh you know that wonderful mileage you get in the Civic Hybrid? Ha ha...we got something better using 100 year old technology."
    • LightSpeed4, on 02/16/2008, -7/+0or maybe it doesnt pass us regulations because diesel is extremely polluting? oh wait that would be logical.
      • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7Diesel cars put out less CO2 than their gasoline counterparts. The smokey particulates of old were due largely to the fact that U.S. refineries put out crappy diesel.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+11Until recently these vehicles couldn't be brough there because our diesel fuel was so ***** full of sulfur. Now we've finally cleaned up our fuel and the new diesels are coming over. Plus there's the concern from many car companies that stupid Americans that recall nothing about diesels other than the truly ***** GM Oldsmobile efforts won't buy them for fear of ending up with the same sort of POS that GM once sold.
      • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5Yeah basically our image of diesel has been partially shaped buy the lazy U.S refining industry and psychological games of the car companies.
      • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Diesel engines used to suck. They used to be weak, smelly, noisy and hard to start in cold weather. Modern diesels have fixed these problems and they get amazing mileage.
    • davidrools, on 02/16/2008, -4/+1Diesel passenger cars don't sell well in the United States, so you can't really expect Honda to sell them. The reason they're not popular? Sure it's probably partly due to automakers not marketing them well and/or oil companies keeping them from coming over. Also, diesel engines create a whole slew of different pollutants such as sulfur oxides and soot.
      And when it comes to Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura, VW/Audi, Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC, branding, blame that on consumers wanting lots of choices. Then go buy a Mazda or a Mitsubishi or something.
      • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Sorry, you're wrong on many counts. When I purchased my VW TDI Ihad to get on a waiting list. they sold every single one they could import and many dealers tacked on multi-thousand dollar premiums too. The sulfur thing is also overblown, you've obviously not researched what's been done with the new emission systems. They have also cleaned up the particulate emissions on the new systems, so much for soot. Oil companies have zip to do with the sales unless you count price gouging, ignorance much like you've displayed on the other hand likely does....
        • Amazetbm, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2BTW...I've noticed that Jetta TDI models have increased in value instead of depreciating.
        • smacksaw, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2A few months ago in Bellingham a dealer was selling a Beetle TDI for $8000 and it was gone within 2 hours of his listing of it. Reason being, it's worth about $12-13k. I don't think the guy knew what he had.

          It was a...1998 model, I believe. New it was only $16,000...good investment.
    • Forlack, on 02/16/2008, -0/+0"I get the feeling that Honda played a prank on U.S. car buyers. "Oh you know that wonderful mileage you get in the Civic Hybrid? Ha ha...we got something better using 100 year old technology."

      Dead wrong. My dad works for Honda and thats not their mantra. BTW if you hypermile a Honda Insight(HYBRID) like these guys did for their diesels you get these results http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22 ...
      Thats 150MPG! Diesel engines have a premium as well. I love diesel though. The future is in diesel hybrids.
  • Wireddd, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2They were measuring how much gas they used based on the automatic pump cutoff? Even if you used the same pump, I doubt very much that it would be accurate.
    note: I am not trying to imply that more diesel wouldn't be better.
    • vlovoguy, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1if you read above, they measured based on the point of overfill, not on the pump.
  • iamjames, on 02/16/2008, -6/+133.2 mpg driving like Miss Daisy all highway mileage isn't impressive from that Audi, even for a car that gets 0-60 in 6.4.

    I'm sure there's plenty of manual transmission Corvettes that can do that without being a diesel.
    • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3It's an SUV, it weighs over 5000lbs.... How much does the corvette way, and how much does it hold?
    • Artimusbill, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Think the Audi is like 1000lbs heavier than the Vette.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Do they also weigh 5100lbs?
    • Repiv, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Also corvettes will never get that kind of MPG
    • exomni, on 02/16/2008, -3/+1High acceleration has nothing to do with fuel economy. The higher powered your engine is, the more you have to push down the pedal to get decent economy, making economic smooth driving impossible. This necessitated P&G methods of driving, which are entirely impractical.
  • gooddoggytreat, on 02/16/2008, -7/+1It's cool guys, I like to forget about serious health risks of using diesel fuel so that we can all save 10 cents at the pumps. However, has anyone noticed that the price of milk has gone up much more substantially than gasoline?
    • burningmanstan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+8There are several clean diesel systems on new US diesel cars that meet emissions in all 50 states. Dirty diesel is a public perception that is obsolete. All these new systems decrease particulate matter. For once car manufacturers are getting it right. Responding to regulations and public demand by adapting with new technology. Now if the public could just keep up, that would be great.
      • DuffyDirect, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1The price of diesel in the US has unfortunately gone through the roof, though, so it doesn't make much sense to buy it. Better off getting an unpopular hybrid like the altima and the $2K tax credit. Or else you could, you know, go live somewhere you can ride a train instead of contributing to the problem altogether.
        • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Sadly it's true that diesel costs more. I think I'm paying about 20 cents more than premium gas for mine and yeah a Hybrid might have been a smarter move but it would NOT have had the same amount of room. I'm still saving, just not saving as much as I might have. I do not have regrets but th efact that diesel competes with heating oil does hurt, I also think that MANY stations gouge on it's pricing. When I can drive 40 miles out of town and save FIFTY cents a gallon for higher cetane fuel something screwy is going on....
    • ricksite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Biodiesel isn't perfect but it is very safe to handle. It is considered non-toxic and non-flammable.
  • widgetmaker, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1And we've had them here for many many months :D Relatively common site on British roads.
  • dietfluffy, on 02/16/2008, -7/+21 Imperial gallon = 1.2 US gallons, so they were getting 60mpg freeway. excellent in general and good for diesel, but not amazing.
    • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5What are you talking about? These tests were done in the US. They are going by US gallons.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Eh?! they computed the fuel mileage based off of pump receipts not based on the MPG meter. They drove this in the US, how do you figure the US pumps were filling in Imperial gallons?
    • computershack, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Stupid ***** Yank. THE TESTS WERE DONE IN THE USA USING A US GALLON. It's bad when the rest of the world recognises a part of the USA on a map but someone who lives there doesn't.
  • jphandley, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2The civic diesel in Europe is ~33k dollars. There is a premium for the car. I still would love to have more options for diesels here. They are coming. The odyssey and accord (supposedly) will have a diesel option by 2010. I feel diesels are a better option than a gas/hybrid. The engines require more frequent maintenance, but you can get 300K out of them easily. I wonder what can be done to speed up the process?
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2What higher maintenance do they require exactly? Fuel filters? I go further between oil changes than most any gas based vehicle since it's using a high quality albeit expensive synthetic. Owned mine going on two years and I've not found the maintenance to be onerous...
    • xNIBx, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Actually it is 33k dollars because currently the US dollar doesnt worth crap compared to euro. If you convert the price into euros and then assume that 1US dollar = 1euro(like it was a few years ago), then the price is much lower. But yes, generally cars are much more expensive but have better quality in europe. Even ford sells their best cars here but not in the US(focus for example).

      Americans all they look for a car is how big is the engine. They dont care about anything else. They dont even care about performance. Give them a 10 litre v8(which weighs 2 tons) with 150hp and they will be happy, thinking that they have a monster engine. They also dont give a crap about interior quality. Brakes, suspensions and electronics arent important either. Size is really important for them, because they think that a bigger car is a safer car and that a bigger car has better value for money(you get "more" car).

      Thankfully europeans have a better taste for cars. Also europeans tend to keep their cars for more years, thus are willing to buy something that has more quality, even though it costs more. Americans tend to think that cars are like clothes and you can buy new clothes each year or something.
  • wwnexc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5VW Golf Diesels gets a pretty damn good mileage, too.
  • liuite, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Dear Honda,
    I will keep driving my '92 Accord until you bring the diesel Honda to the U.S.
  • sfacets, on 02/16/2008, -5/+4You people still use gallons? Get with it.
    • zacharytelschow, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1And pay about half the price for gas that you do (assuming you're in Europe).
  • orgazmo, on 02/16/2008, -2/+2So their whole technique of checking how much fuel a car consumed is to check when the pump clicks? Well that's scientific
    • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Actually if you watched the video, I believe they did it to overflow, not clicking. So the pump would make no difference, and the overflow method would be accurate, probably to 1mpg when all the math was done..
  • dizilbdog, on 02/16/2008, -1/+1Diesel would be awesome, but so many states suck. Like Mass you can't buy them new they have to be a certain amount of years old. Morons, and oh that's right a diesel could then be turned into Bio Diesel, and then you could just fill up at Mcdonald's instead of Mobil or the local chinese store, but alas the Big Car companies don't want diesel only Gas, and that won't change for a very very long time
    • rkzda, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Wrong.
    • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Suggest you SERIOUSLY research biodiesel and grease conversions. You've got some serious misinformation going there starting with you cannot simply fill up at a fast food grease trap unless you want to be dead on the side of the road REAL fast. You mightalso want to look into the gel point of vegetable oil in a Northern climate as cool as Mass is. At the very least you'll be running a serious blend or a setup that heats the oil while you're running on petrodiesel for cold start.
      • dizilbdog, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I'd still drive a diesel if massachusetts weren't such assholes about it
  • dhughes, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5 Even better is a diesel vehicle with a manual transmission since the drag the fluid in an automatic transmission has lowers your mpg.
  • LightSpeed4, on 02/16/2008, -5/+0it doesnt meet the regulations in the US ***** fags
  • shawnanigans, on 02/16/2008, -5/+4Do not use Biodeisel. How can we turn food into fuel when so many places are famine stricken. Ethanol might be fine if we can make it from useless cellulose but biodeisel can only be made from food.
    • themonkman, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Shawn, you are wrong. You can make biodiesel from a wide array of organic sources. It can come from used vegetable oil, animal grease, even algae. Algae would be a perfect organic to use because it can grow so rapidly. There are also ways to add an oil reservoir tank that can feed used filtered waste oils (like from any McDonalds or mexican food restaurant) directly to the engine and run off of it once the vehicle is warmed up by driving on regular diesel.
      • BLKMGK, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1It's becoming more obvious based on some of the ignorant responses here why it is that car manufacturers are so hesitant to import diesels to this country
  • duggreen, on 02/16/2008, -1/+1Before this dives into a diesel vs. gasoline discussion, lets remember that gas is the old tech, diesel is the new.
    • scottykempf, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Diesel is pretty old too. Google Rudolph Diesel. But I support Diesel cars.
      • duggreen, on 02/18/2008, -0/+1Been there done that, son.
        Gas=very old. Diesel=old. Turbine=not so old.
  • z93e, on 02/16/2008, -3/+2bush wont allow this in the U.S
    • computershack, on 02/16/2008, -1/+0Of course he won't. He knows the US motor industry can't compete with the rest of the world on design, technology or build quality.
  • SweetBearCub, on 02/16/2008, -1/+6I'd love to see an upstart company design a standard platform that incorporated diesel & electric, with the option of plugging the car into a plug in your garage to extend its range.

    They could use this standard platform, with minimal modifications, to create all their vehicles, from the basic 2 door coupe, all the way up to a 15/18 passenger/cargo van.

    These theoretical vehicles would have amazing fuel mileage, relatively low purchase costs (since the same basic platform is shared among all models, seriously reducing ongoing R & D costs), and greatly reduced repair costs (again, due to the common platform).

    Hell, in theory, it would be possible to say, buy the 2 door coupe version as a kid, and when you get a bit more.. umm.. seasoned, bring the vehicle back in and have the body swapped for a more versatile (likely larger) one, at a very reduced price compared to trading it in on a new vehicle. This conversion might take a few days or weeks, but the dealer could cover that by providing a free or seriously discounted rental.

    Something like this might have the potential to build serious brand loyalty, and in this case, I don't see it as a bad thing.

    Of course, I'm SURE there's a lot of problems inherant (sp?) in this proposal, such as government regulation (EPA, CARB, NHTSA, etc..), building of manufacturing plants and a network of exclusive dealers (expensive as all hell!), creating advertising to educate the public (many people still hate diesel engines, no matter how good they are), and other stuff, but then again, this is only an idea fleshed out inside of 5 minutes by one guy who's bored at the moment, not a bona-fide 100% thought out business proposal.

    And now, for the obligatory line of legalese:
    "Idea © Original Poster, All Rights Reserved."
  • teaBagger, on 02/16/2008, -4/+1POWAR? MOAR!
    • Kypt, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Seriously, if you like 4chan that's great and all, but at least try to spell better...It's not like you're even saving letters with moar...
  • GeorgeStone2, on 02/16/2008, -1/+3I liked the guy shouting over to the bloggers "That a diesel car?!"...
    That's just how uncommon it is in the US.
    Over here no one looks twice.
    We have Regular, Premium, and diesel. All in a row on all pumps.
    • scottykempf, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I think he was saying "You want diesel?" like he thought the guy in the car had pulled up to the wrong pump.
  • tugger, on 02/16/2008, -2/+4Still doesn't beat 85mpg from my smart. 480 miles from a tank, and 5 star encap, unlike the civic.
    • atdakore, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2and how much more money? and less performance do you get?
  • Grantland, on 02/16/2008, -1/+0In my opinion Audi's design is far superior to that of the Civic, but if the fuel economy is definitely the deciding factor these days. Why did they decide to have a SUV compete against a car? Obviously the 72 mpg, is much better than that of the current America made cars , but the 33 mpg is good for SUV's as well.

    lifeofryan21.blogspot.com
  • davidwasman, on 02/16/2008, -5/+2Another Gawker Media Spam site. Buried.

    Everyone should be aware of Gawker Media and their concerted effort to spam Digg with unoriginal content. Just look up how many of these sites they own (i.e.gizmodo, jalopnik, gawker, i09, valleywag, kotaku, etc...)
    • Patent, on 02/16/2008, -1/+0Yeah, but the spcfgt above you is spamming his blog.
    • benwojdyla, on 02/16/2008, -1/+1Wow, that's funny, as the author of this article, I seem to remember creating all of the content along with my videographer. Unless, that is, you can find a secondary source where my identical evil twin got two cars from Honeywell, drove them for two hundred miles, was videotaped doing it, and reported on it the following week so that I could steal it without permission.

      Hell I didn't even submit this to digg. I suggest you put your head back from whence it came.
      • davidwasman, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Deflection. Nice tactic...but I am not so gullible.

        The fact is that Gawker has about 15 sister sites, all of which are on Digg's front page not because of content, but shear numbers. I watched the Upcoming section for 2 straight hours today, prior to my own Blog/report on your site's actions. Not ONCE did a Gawker Media site show up on the upcoming section(a.k.a Pergatory). They all went straight to the front page. No limbo, like the rest of the stories.

        That tells me something. it tells me that there are WAY too many people suddenly, en masse, digging your site's articles.

        And you should read through the comments on your own stories, let alone those of your fellow 'reporters'. You will see a great manuy comments about the ignorance, sillyness, or downright ridiculous nature of the articles coming from Gawker Media sites. How does such s maligned site garner such high numbers? Hmm?

        Thanks.
  • katorga, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2My very first car was an ancient, used VW Rabbit diesel, a refugee from the gas lines of the 1970s. The little thing had a hard time at 55mph, but had two fuel tanks and got 63mpg. Thanks California for the stringent regulations that prevent the rest of the nation from getting the cool, fast fuel efficient diesels they have in the EU.
  • smacksaw, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Everyone can say they want this car, but it's pointless. We don't have the refining capacity for all of you people to drive them. VW makes about 1-2% of their cars diesel. Why? Because 1-2% of gas production is for passenger diesels.

    If they offered more of them they would sell them. And then there would be less diesel to go around, driving prices up even further.

    Carmakers aren't stupid. They want to sell us these cars. It's the EPA, environmentalist wackos and NIMBYs that are the problem. If we COULD BUILD NEW REFINERIES FOR DIESEL it would not be a problem. But no one can/will do it. And so we have no diesel.

    What irks me is that the people most concerned about the environment are the ones who fight the hardest against new diesel refining capacity. I care about the environment, but I will never call myself an environmentalist. Greenpeace will never get any money from me - nothing but my scorn until they lobby the EPA to allow ExxonMobil to open more diesel refineries. And they won't, so there you go.

    If you think this is a great car and you want it, QUIT BUGGING HONDA. Start talking about more refineries. FOR DIESEL.
  • mcalica, on 02/16/2008, -1/+2I seriously hope that Honda brings over the accord diesel, because I WOULD buy one. These new clean diesels are very important; for the most part, we have reached the pinnacle of gasoline engines: their mpg isn't going to get any better. We HAVE to look to diesel if we want to take fuel economy to the next level. Can anyone imagine the Honda fit with a diesel? lighter and more aerodynamic than that euro civic. Jesus, it would probably get 80 mpg.
  • stephendv, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2The lack of diesels in the US is really mystifying, in Europe they make up at least HALF the cars on the road. There must have been some bad PR for diesel in the seventies and now everyone still thinks they are noisy and smelly - they're not!
  • mobtek, on 02/16/2008, -3/+272mpg == 30.6 kilometres per litre
    my 2001 Toyota Corolla gets 8.0/5.8 litres per 100 km (city/highway)
    which is about 95mpg if I choose the highway measurement, and you guys think 72mpg is good? And I'm using regular unleaded. If you sold a car in Aust. that got 30.6km/l you'd be lynched :P Brand new V6 Holden (read:GM) Commodores get 11l/100km WTF do they do to your cars over there?
    • boran, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Your calculation missed some steps.
      30.6 km/l means it gets around 3.5L/100KM so about hald of what your Toyota gets.

      My current car (a Peugeot 307 2.0 HDI built in 2002) gets about 6L/100KM
      My next one (a Peugeot 307 1.6 HDI built in 2007) should get 4.7 on paper, but we'll see about that, I have the impression the whole usage is stagnating a bit here. Because the car I had before the 307 was an old Citroën Xiantia 2.0 HDI built in 1995 and that one also had 6L/100KM
    • sulliwan, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Kids, this is why you don't skip math class.

      5.8l/100km = 40.5mpg
  • KaJuN4, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3I really don't understand why we're so anti-diesel here in the US. As far as I can tell pollution is the main concern but that only makes the issue all the more confusing. Here in Ohio they've done away with emissions checks in several counties. You can't tell me the government is concerned about pollution when they stop checking cars for compliance. I get the sense it's more about money than anything else.
    • boran, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2A diesel with an emission filter (burns particles at very high temps) is much less polluting than a gasoline car. Almost all cars here now have the option to be equiped with them and the EU is pushing to make them mandatory.
  • thetwe, on 02/16/2008, -0/+0Welcome to the 21st century America, see you in the EU...
  • popnwave, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I miss my 2003 Golf TDI :( I just had sooo many electrical issues with it, ended up being in the shop once a month the first 4 months of '07 and it was creating job scheduling issues! Very hard to trade it in for an Element, which I now realize guzzles gas like a freak.
  • nickphoto520, on 02/17/2008, -0/+0i actually think the audi did really well considering everything
  • warner444, on 02/18/2008, -0/+1Popular Mechanics magazine had a series of articles in the mid 70's by their car dude Smokey Yanik. He took a Pinto, a 100Hp starter motor for a jet engine, and a snowmobile motor driving a generator and got 75 MPG. I read this my self in the '70s and have often since wondered why companies like Honda, that can make a robot that walks, cannot match some hick using surplus parts. I wish I could find the origional copies. If I had extra cash I would get a '95 honda accord and do the same thing.
  • bdbElysian, on 02/18/2008, -0/+1Fantastic. I'll hold out for a diesel powered Type-R to arrive in Canada: http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/10/dieselpower ...
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