What is Digg?70 Comments
- doiveo, on 11/07/2008, -1/+17I thought we had this one covered 20 years ago. How is it we can be rid of (H)CFCs by '95 and yet developing countries are still allowed their use 20 or 30 years later? I can understand a bit more time but that is ridiculous. Especially since China and India are still 'developing countries' but should be held to higher standards now.
- wonderchemist, on 11/07/2008, -0/+16HFCF are not CFCs. The US still uses HCFC and will not have a complete phaseout (by treaty) until 2030.
China, which was a good party to blame before mid 2007, is the wrong party to blame (at least in regards to CFC/HFCF use). China is already ahead of schedule and will meet the CFC ban ahead of its committed date of 2010. China has also agreed to the same 2030 date for HCFC as the US/EU. In return the US/EU will pay the cost of transferring IP related to HCFC free technology to China. (i.e. The US/EU will subsidize Chinese manufacturers for breaking US/EU owned IP)
In any case, China is going to be a major manufacture of HCFC free systems for the rest of the world so its wasn't really hard to get them to agree to this, especially when we dangled a few carrots. - inactive, on 11/08/2008, -7/+18Is "competitive stupidity" some kind of hobby for you?
- koldmilk, on 11/08/2008, -2/+10I say we plastic wrap the Earth, That should keep her fresh...
- mal1964, on 11/08/2008, -1/+8Probably not. But we're getting better everyday
- Murdats, on 11/08/2008, -0/+7you just keep proving how little you know jimmy, yet you still believe you are smarter then all the scientists in the world when you do not know even basic facts.
we know the ozone hole exists, we have photos of it, we know the exact process that causes it, and most importantly WE HAVE PHOTOS OF IT.
this isn't trying to map a chaotic system, there is a large damn hole in our atmosphere where we can point to it and say look a hole. and you still want to say it doesn't exist? I would love to think that surprises me but coming from you jimmy who believes imaginary numbers are a false mathematical construct it doesn't - doiveo, on 11/07/2008, -0/+6thanks, that's good to know. I'm just disappointed this is still on the table.
- inactive, on 11/08/2008, -1/+7What the hell does the ozone layer have to do with global warming? This is something about which there are no questions - we know how our activities affect it, it's been clearly demonstrated, and the effects of it (cancer) are pretty clear.
- Turambar, on 11/08/2008, -0/+5the ozone layer has nothing to do with global warming, thats why I am differentiating the two. This is actually a real solid problem Jimmy. If you introduce these chemicals to ozone in a controlled environment, they strongly attract either one or two of the oxygen atoms in the ozone molecule and basically rip the molecule apart. air currents concentrate these chemicals at the poles and they really are, with measurable results, eating away at the ozone layer.
the ozone layer intercepts a good deal of the sun's ultraviolet radiation, which can penetrate your cell walls in your skin and ***** with the DNA in the nuclei of your cells, causing cancer. It happens and it's real. - TSK05, on 11/08/2008, -2/+7People confuse the ozone layer with man made global warming. The later is dubious. The former is widely agreed to have been diminished by humans (although the ozone hole has stayed constant in the last few years, which is a sign that we've made progress).
The ozone hole (if it gets bigger) can and will have a direct impact on you. Not in a 100 years. Not in 50. In 5. Ozone blocks ultraviolet radiation. Your chances of cancer will increase exponentially. It's already documented to have happened in regions like New Zealand which are affected by the hole today. - Cuchanu, on 11/08/2008, -0/+5That's like cutting your head off to cure your headache.
- cinder, on 11/08/2008, -0/+5Not really.
1. CFCs + UV light -> Cl (Chlorine)
2. Cl + O_3 -> ClO + O_2
3. ClO + O -> Cl + O_2.
4. Go back to 2.
The less CFCs there are, the less chlorine there is fuel this cycle. It's that simple (however, enforcing and regulating such a thing is not that simple, so in that sense, you may be right).
IIRC, Cl gets trapped in polar stratospheric clouds over Antarctica and gets released en masse during the southern hemisphere's spring or summer, which is why the ozone hole usually appears around September or October. - tehsilentcircus, on 11/08/2008, -1/+5How cereal are you about the ManBearPig situation in America?
- twiztidsinz, on 11/08/2008, -1/+5You know... I was going to make a comment but then I realized something..
It must be ***** to live in that sad little world of hate you willingly make yourself live in. I really feel sorry for you. - Murdats, on 11/08/2008, -1/+4and here is jimmys equally as stupid sidekick.
so you guys have given up on even understanding a topic now hey?
you just find it simpler to believe that humans can not impact the environment in any way rather then actually look at the facts.
I guess that's not hard to believe as you are both fundamental christians, jimmy is a creationist and I would bet you are too. you are used to ignoring reality in order to not have to think, and then spreading that ignorance to all. - TSK05, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3Actually international standards were AGREED to and enforced by people like Reagan. This isn't man made global warming.
The ozone hole (if it gets bigger) can and will have a direct impact on you. Not in a 100 years. Not in 50. In 5. Ozone blocks ultraviolet radiation. Your chances of cancer will increase exponentially. It's already documented to have happened in regions like New Zealand which are affected by the hole today. Thankfully, due to standards agreed to 20 years ago, the ozone hole has been stable for the last few years. - Turambar, on 11/08/2008, -4/+7Seriously Jimmy, come on. Global Warming and the Ozone hole are very different things. Don't believe in it? Spend some time in Antarctica without sunscreen. It is very real, just like the skin cancer you'll probably get. We release chemicals into the air which have been shown in a laboratory environment to take apart ozone molecules which intercept UV radiation in the upper atmosphere.
Do you really distrust repeated reproducible testing that much? - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3I agree. Then finally we'll be doing something about all the environmental problems that some news sources whine about every day.
Either that or it kills us all. - idontlikeyou2, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3Buddy, praying never works.
- Cuchanu, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3Sure. Anybody who doesn't believe we affect our environment is just ignorant. Period. Yes there are an EXTREMELY few scientists that think we don't. But, there are also historians that say the Holocaust is never happened.
I have studied environmental science and it's not mind bending. There is plenty of simple evidence. Yes the planet changes without us. But we are making it change at a rate that could be devastating.
Why don't you tell me why you think these people trying to "extort" us have to gain?
I could list a lot more things that we stand to loose if it turns out we ARE negatively affecting our environment.
But, of course, what do 99% of the world's scientists know, right? I bet your ancestors were excommunicating people who said the earth was round. - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3Well, at least he's doing something about the economy. What have you been doing all day?
You know what, I don't care and don't want to know anyway. - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -1/+4Dude, the "evil corporations" who intentionally dump toxic wastes in our water supply are doing several trillion times more damage than you, if you can measure damage by a number.
In other words, you're not polluting enough. Try harder. - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -0/+3You know, why don't we manufacture ozone and release it into the atmosphere??
Oh wait that's actually a bad thing. - Cuchanu, on 11/08/2008, -0/+2I totally agree with you.
I have stocked up on canned goods and water, as well as enough ammo to raise a small army, so that when the country is destroyed I can gather other patriots like yourself to go to D.C. to reclaim our country from the Commie Muslims.
I have taken my children out of school because the Dems will start teaching our kids to be gay. You should, too, especially if you have two kids, as they might marry each other. For my children's sake, I have been telling them how great Obama is, so that they can pass the mandatory obedience detector tests that they will begin administering on 1-20-09.
Now that the minorities have taken over our country, I'll blend in and spy on them by taking Spanish lessons (after verifying they are not illegal of course), dyeing my hair black and tanning.
I have extensively practiced the terrorist fist jab and am confident that when it comes time to perform this heathen ritual I will be able to fool the liberals.
Something else I recommend is selling everything you own and investing in 24 inch rims to bribe our new African American overlords. According to my research (Rap City) these are very important.
I hope this helps alleviate some of your concerns and helps you plan for the destruction of the U.S. BTW don't believe people who tell call you "paranoid." They are spies of the Obama administration to trick you into not being prepared for the upcoming civil war. My God I've already said too much. - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -0/+2And then we could use global warming to combat global dimming, which in turn will combat global cooling.
- TSK05, on 11/08/2008, -0/+2What do you think caused that hole? - chlorofluorocarbons. They aren't CO2 gases.
"You are confusing the FACT that two are inextricably related" - I am not confusing anything. The two are UNRELATED.
"You even say it yourself, ozone blocks radiation." - The vast amount of UV is still blocked. It's effect on temperature is about 0.00000001 K. It's contribution to global warming is 0.
Never again try to argue a point when you have no idea what you're talking about. And never again try to argue that ozone depletion is related to global warming. One is caused by greenhouse gases. One is not. Ozone depletion does not cause global warming. - digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -0/+2zero. the ozone layer has not been shown to be affected by greenhouse gasses - it's because of CFCs, which has widely been retired from use
- TSK05, on 11/08/2008, -1/+3no, it's not. Don't be an idiot. This isn't man made global warming.
- BETRAMS, on 11/08/2008, -1/+3I'm pretty stoned and I couldn't follow that.
- Murdats, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2you are right, humans are so small on the grand scale of things.
however us small humans cover this small planet, we have wiped out species and ecosystems due to development, surely humans can't have that impact you say?
2/3 of the worlds coral reefs are dead because of us, surely we can't have that impact right?
the worlds largest rainforest has is still being reduced by 22,000km² each year, surely that will do nothing.
we have spent 100 years creating clouds of pollution on a daily scale above cities, that's harmless right?
humans can in no way effect the world we live on right? that's just arrogant. - nrox653, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2Racist *****.
- TSK05, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2The fact that the ozone hole is being caused by humans was established over twenty years ago. There is widespread agreement. This is UNLIKE man made global warming.
The ozone layer protects YOU from cancer by blocking ultraviolet radiation. There IS a documented and very significant increase in cancer rates in affected areas (like New Zealand). This isn't a 100 year thing. It's a 5 year thing. - Math, on 11/08/2008, -0/+1This is not a stupid question.
There is some evidence that emissions from very high altitude aircraft can cause damage to the ozone layer:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j36u421685xgm5 ... - TheOneTrueGod, on 11/08/2008, -0/+1Maybe he's doing it because he drank that water.
- epadafunk, on 11/08/2008, -0/+1why the ***** do the "rich" nations still support china, they're the richest on the planet now. we should stop sending them money and start worrying about ourselves.
- inactive, on 11/08/2008, -0/+1Same here.
- jedinate, on 11/08/2008, -0/+1I spray an entire can of Auqua Net into the air every day, isn't that enough?
- Murdats, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2so are tsunamis and volcano's, they sure cause some people problems.
- chrisduser, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2RABBLE RABBLE RABLLE
- digggggggggg, on 11/08/2008, -2/+3YES WE ARE DOING ENOUGH AND SHOULD DO ABSOLUTELY NO MORE.
- nemodot, on 11/08/2008, -1/+2*****, the ozone layer hole is slowly reaching my town here in bahia blanca, 38ºS; People living in the south will be doomed with retinoblastoma.
- uberpsycho, on 11/08/2008, -1/+1...But is the Ozone layer doing enough to protect us?
- inactive, on 11/08/2008, -1/+1I don't think enough efforts are being made to protect ozone layer. And i am sure we are going to pay heavy price for it in near future.
- laserjesus, on 11/08/2008, -1/+0Both of them aren't dubios no more. 10 years ago it was still ok to doubt the influence of man in the global warming.
Since then the evidence became a lot clearer and nowadays there is virtually no serious scientist who doesn't acknowledge that mankind does have an effect on our climate.
You can be pretty sure that the overwhelming biggest part of "scientists" who negate the influence of man on global warming are in some degree involved with the industry.
Don't forget that out of the 5 biggest companies worldwide 3 are oil companies, that would suffer most from strict rules to protect our planet. - BlackApple, on 11/08/2008, -1/+0Dubious? What do you think caused that hole? You are confusing the FACT that two are inextricably related. You even say it yourself, ozone blocks radiation. And without it being blocked it will get more sunlight which would increase the greenhouse effect and raise temp. I will only argue this topic once a day.
- alais, on 11/08/2008, -2/+1You're sure huh? how?
- inactive, on 11/08/2008, -7/+5Won't help. There is too much political hot air. The shrink-wrapped Earth will eventually explode.
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