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General Advice on Picking a College
inrethinking.blogspot.com — So you need to take full control of the schools you can actually get into. You need to make sure they're paying you and that debt will be minimal. Please do not think that 120 grand worth of debt is worth it to go to UPenn or Harvard. Unless you're going to be doing research and working with Nobel Laureates and flying out to Paris
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- Iconoclast25, on 04/06/2008, -0/+5One quibble, Ashok - while I completely agree the competition is intense and often the candidates have paper-doll credentials, if the student can obtain significant scholarship money, then the outrageous tuition of top tier schools becomes less of an issue. My #2 boy had a full boat at Northwestern and is now doing his PhD at Chicago the same way. In both cases he had to do a year at lower echelon schools to prove his worth because he was very much a "non-traditional" student, but once he'd filled some blanks on the academic resume with real world performance, the top schools were quite eager to have him transfer as a second year student.
- ashok, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1That's terrific to hear! The main reason why I can't recommend that route is because I myself couldn't have pulled that off, and I'm not exactly bad at what I do.
Is he in the sciences, perchance?- eir574, on 04/06/2008, -1/+1I'm not sure iconoclast25 is around anymore (his user page doesn't exist), so perhaps I'll jump in here. I can only speak to my experience, which was in the sciences. I went to a small, relatively unknown college. We had under 1200 undergraduates and no graduate students. We certainly weren't a major research institution, so professors had to be there because they were committed to teaching undergraduates.
I was a little nervous about what that would look like on my applications when I applied to graduate schools (in the sciences), but I had no problems at all. I think what helps is excelling wherever you are, and in particular forming relationships with faculty who can give you great recommendations that are personal. I had a lot of opportunities at my little school than many undergraduates at big schools have. I left with four years of research experience in labs, which was far more than most people get. (In fact, science majors were required to work part time on a research project during their senior year, whereas seniors at many "name brand" college are lucky to get that opportunity.)
Once I got to graduate school (Stanford), I was very surprised to see that my fellow students came from everywhere. I wouldn't even say that Ivy League schools were overrepresented. There were plenty of people at state schools, and plenty from lesser known schools. What we all had in common was that we did well wherever we happened to be. I have a cousin who's now applying to colleges, and I keep telling her mother not to worry so much. Good students will find ways to thrive wherever they are.
- eir574, on 04/06/2008, -1/+1I'm not sure iconoclast25 is around anymore (his user page doesn't exist), so perhaps I'll jump in here. I can only speak to my experience, which was in the sciences. I went to a small, relatively unknown college. We had under 1200 undergraduates and no graduate students. We certainly weren't a major research institution, so professors had to be there because they were committed to teaching undergraduates.
- ashok, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1That's terrific to hear! The main reason why I can't recommend that route is because I myself couldn't have pulled that off, and I'm not exactly bad at what I do.
- kemojr, on 04/06/2008, -0/+2I graduated from college in 1967 so things have changed a bunch. I tend to agree with what "iconoclast25" says in the post before mine. Real world performance most always impresses.
- ashok, on 04/06/2008, -0/+2Thanks for your comment, but I'm not quite sure what you mean - do "lower echelon schools" constitute the "real world," as opposed to...
- kemojr, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1I went to what I would call a "middle echelon school. My friend went to the same school and we graduated about the same time. He had average grades. He went to work for a while and then borrowed $25,000 to start his own insurance agency. That was 30 years ago. Now he is a multimillionaire. If you are after a specific discipline, like law or engineering, you should go to the best school that you can afford. If you have the patience, take the long haul to avoid getting into debt. What is your best subject and do you have a passion for it?
- ashok, on 04/06/2008, -0/+2Thanks for your comment, but I'm not quite sure what you mean - do "lower echelon schools" constitute the "real world," as opposed to...
- postingbh, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1"Please do not think that 120 grand worth of debt is worth it to go to UPenn or Harvard."
- I disagree. For starters, with top tier academics comes top tier financial aid. The best schools can often be the least expensive. For me, it was far cheaper to attend a private top tier school than an average state school. It's the difference between scholarships/grants and loans. All financial aid is not equal.
Also, even if attending Harvard did give you $120k in debt, it might be worth it. Let's say you racked up $50k in debt at a state university, so the difference is $70k. Well, I would pay $70k more for Harvard connections any day. Doing well at an Ivy League school is basically a free pass into premier graduate programs and high paying professions. The long term benefits are huge and easily worth $70k. It's not about the education per se, but the name and connections.- eir574, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1It depends on the field you're interested in. My graduate program at Stanford was filled with people who didn't go to Ivy League schools. I was in biophysics, but this was true of all of the 12 or 13 biological sciences departments and also of the chemistry department. Beyond that, I didn't know too many people, so I can't speak for the other sciences.
Not going to an Ivy League school doesn't necessarily mean that you took the easy way out, and sometimes it can be hard for students to distinguish themselves and find good opportunities at schools where professors are more interested in research than in teaching undergraduates. I left college with four years of hands on research experience. I wouldn't have gotten that at Harvard. (In fact, I had friends at Harvard who were quite jealous of me!) The faculty I worked with in those labs were able to write personal recommendations for me when I applied to graduate school, and those helped me stand out from the crowd. I also found that I was more than adequately prepared for graduate school, and was placing out of classes that my classmates from Harvard and Yale had to take.- postingbh, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1Right. Like I said before, attending an Ivy isn't about the education necessarily. You can receive a better education at other schools. As such, other schools might better prepare you for grad school or your profession. But an Ivy diploma makes you part of an absurdly well respected and powerful alumni network. Being part of that network can easily be worth $70k, even though the education itself may not be.
- eir574, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1It depends on the field you're interested in. My graduate program at Stanford was filled with people who didn't go to Ivy League schools. I was in biophysics, but this was true of all of the 12 or 13 biological sciences departments and also of the chemistry department. Beyond that, I didn't know too many people, so I can't speak for the other sciences.
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