What is Digg?295 Comments
- greenjestur, on 07/01/2008, -5/+168since when did 60K become affordable?
- MrTito, on 07/01/2008, -10/+130"Affordable $60K"
Yeah, it'll go great with my $185K 108-inch LCD TV. - Zandarrr, on 06/30/2008, -1/+109The Tesla is closer to being affordable! Huzzah! Once they have a model that dips below $30k I will make a serious attempt to purchase one.
- mikesly, on 06/30/2008, -2/+98The Terminator did not run on gas, coincidence i think not...
- drew52686, on 06/30/2008, -1/+89I have been following Tesla ever since Wired did a cover story on them a few years ago. I really hope this -- along with more solar, nuclear, wind, thermal, etc. power -- comes to fruition, especially at the $60,000 price point. More than anything, I just hope this (Tesla) doesn't end up like the EV-1.
- Zandarrr, on 06/30/2008, -0/+85And about 5 minutes later...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/30/tesla-motors-el ... - KMyHero, on 07/01/2008, -1/+41Ironic that the man who helped bring the Hummer to civilians is on the cutting edge of green car technology.
- silver26, on 06/30/2008, -0/+39GM better get the Volt rolling ASAP.
- kolyana, on 07/01/2008, -6/+42C'mon guys, it IS affordable. Now, granted, it's more in the range of a nice BMW or Mercedes, but it's NOT a super-car price tag. Can I afford one? No! But it's not just top 5% material here. I have 3 friends who could get one of these if they were so inclined, and none are millionaires. This is a great step in the right direction and - like everything else - the price will come down.
I remember buying my first flat panel LCD monitor for like $1,600 - it was only a 15" thing; ridiculous price; but at the time it was the first of it's type. Not long later and prices tumble as everyone gets in on the action and this will be no different; it's great news. - MildApplause, on 07/01/2008, -1/+28Nobody could afford the first TV sets or computers, either.
I'm just happy that a step is being taken in the right direction. - Beanbones, on 07/01/2008, -3/+29For all those saying that a $60k isn't affordable, let's look closer.
The site (teslamotors.com) advertises "2 cents per mile" as a measure of how efficient their cars run. Well, let's crunch some numbers and see if this would be a good reason to buy.
My 2006 Toyota Corolla consistently gets about 32 miles per gallon; one refill of my 10 gallon tank costs me about $45. So, the fuel cost per mile for my car is $45 divided by 320 miles, roughly... 14 cents per gallon. So far, so good. Now, let's see how many miles I'd have to drive to make up the cost difference.
Per mile, I'd be saving 12 cents if I were to drive a TM car. The price difference between my car and theirs is roughly $48k. 48.000 / 0.12 = 400000 miles. Wow, that's actually a lot. I don't think I've ever put that many miles on any car before replacing it, and I don't think the "average consumer" will, either.
Who killed the electric car? Cost efficiency. As usual.
EDIT: However, those who are in the market for a sedan, and are therefore looking for cars in a similar price range... you'd be stupid NOT to buy this car, since your price difference would be much smaller and you'd have to put far fewer miles on the car to make up for the difference. - wrxpert, on 06/30/2008, -2/+26It is really very sad that Tesla is already well along in this area while GM with all of it's money and resources is so far behind.
- dafragsta, on 07/01/2008, -3/+26No *****. It's not accessable to most Americans until it's in the $20K range.
- krahzee, on 07/01/2008, -2/+24A few unanswered problems to what is a great start:
1) Where do you charge it on the go? Likewise, what if you live in an apartment, where do you charge it? Not everyone is a homowner.
2) Lifespan/ cost of replacing batteries, motors etc. They have to be resonable or people will avoid it once word gets out. $10k for new motors every 10 years? No thanks. Too expensive
3) How does the car perform in the cold Northeast winters. Better yet, what about our neighbors in Canada? Sure the motors may still work, but as anyone who has tried to start a conventional engine on a brutally cold day will tell you, an old battery is a lot less likely to give you the juice you need. What happens to this in that situation, especially if you can't garage it over night?
4) How accurate is that range? Since conventional cars run accesories off of power genrated by the gas engine on it is on, how much impact will AC, heat, headlights, stereo have on the range of this car? Will driving home in at night in December mean no radio or heat for me since turning them on will use more of the battery than I can let it and still make it home and see along the way?
Looks very promising because it is a CAR, not a 3 wheeled trike that most drivers would be afraid to drive for safety reasons. The $30k price point will make it affordable in that the gas saving make it worth it, unlike the $60k one, which makes it harder to swallow. - chrisbaskind, on 06/30/2008, -2/+24Still too expensive. But at least someone other than football players, movie stars, and well-heeled early adopters will be able to snag this one.
- krets, on 06/30/2008, -3/+25I would be the first person in line to buy a nuclear powered hot rod.
- Schrodinger2, on 07/01/2008, -0/+21This is america. Credit means get it.
- guyster2, on 07/01/2008, -1/+21From someone who’s actually ridden in and studied the Tesla Roadster:
* 60K being “affordable” is relative to the $100K of their first model.
* They are targeting a $30K model in 2012, so these prices will come down in time. That’s in “Prius range”.
* Your electric bill will be higher, but less than your current gasoline budget. You will save money in the end.
* “By the time it finally comes out, they'll be the last ones out the gate.” No, they are actually the only “production car”, and are currently shipping the Roadster. By “production”, I mean that none of the competitors are crash-tested at full-speed. Furthermore, they now have a growing engineering presence in Detroit (and New Mexico, for production) where they expect to be a “real” car company.
* What some of you are missing is the elegant simplicity, which further improves the “green” rating. For example, there is no catalytic converter, no O2 sensors, no crankcase oil (or filter, or pump), no emissions system, no plugs, ignition system, starter, alternator, belts, chains, or even (in the most recent twist) a transmission! (reverse is accomplished electrically). And due to the regen braking the brake pads won’t need replacement very often. Compare this to the Prius with its two motor/generator/starter units, two differentials (one for the wheels, one for power transmission), exhaust "thermos", etc. The Prius is impressive, but you could never call it “elegant”. It is grossly complex.
* “This thing'll do about 60 miles”: Uh, no. Range rated by the EPA at well over 200 miles, due to lithium batteries. “Oh, and it won't be out for at least a year or two”: Perhaps, but they are already shipping the Roadster model to happy customers.
* “Where do you charge it on the go?”: They have a “travel cable” which allows you to recharge from a standard 120v outlet. A major hotel has agreed to provide hi-speed charger stations.. Marriot? I forget.
* “How does the car perform in the cold Northeast winters”: The battery pack has a heater built in for when the temps are very low.
* “They can only make a few dozen of their high end model a year right now, I dont think Detroit is too nervous.” No, actually, they made 10 a month early this year, but are now making 100 a month for the rest of this year, to deliver the first 650 units this year. Detroit being nervous, or not, has never been relevant. Detroit was never nervous about Toyota clobbering them, with obvious results. - Rousterfar, on 07/01/2008, -2/+19I'm curious what it would do to your electric bill to charge a car like this every night. I know gas is expensive, but would you really be saving that much money, all things equal?
- kalvinb, on 07/01/2008, -2/+17Let's see, my current car payment is $365 + $500 in gas every month. That works out to $51,900 in five years. That car would pay for itself in about 6 years were you to get it interest free. Not including the cost of recharging.
Hardly affordable even for someone with a long commute. I'll stick to carpooling until an all electric that's actually affordable comes out. - rodrigorules, on 07/01/2008, -2/+16compared to the first tesla at 100,000
- redDC143C, on 07/01/2008, -1/+15Well, if you think about it in the long term with savings in gas, it probably will be very affordable.
According to Tesla, the roadster costs roughly 2.5 cents for every mile driven. Lets take an guesstimate of around 20 MPG for an average car on the road nowadays and do some math. Lets also assume a conservative number of annual mileage to be 10K.
$4.00 / 20 MPG = $0.20 per mile, again, $4 is a conservative number since gas prices will never go down
10,000 * $0.20 = $2,000 in gas
10,000 * $.025 = $250 in electricity
$2,000 - $250 = $1,750 annual savings
multiple that with the estimated battery life of the roadster (10 years) and you've saved a *very* conservative $17,500
essentially this car will be only $42,500 -- not bad at all. This also doesn't take into account gas prices probably doubling by the end of those 10 years, as well as tax rebates and the such for your particular state (sometimes very substantial). - Anand999, on 07/01/2008, -0/+14Electricity isn't free but it's comparatively cheap compared to gasoline. Tesla estimates the cost of electricity to be around $0.01/mile. In a 25 MPG car with $4/gallon car, you're looking at $0.16/mile. At 1000 miles per month, that's $10 vs. $160.
For a standard 5 year car loan with a decent interest rate, $1000 financed will cost about $20/month. So with that ~$150 a month you save on gas, you could afford a car that cost about $7500 more and still be spending the same amount of money. Depending on your driving habits and the car you're replacing, it could an even bigger difference. Keep in mind none of this even considers tax credits and other privileges that come with having an electric vehicle. - Rousterfar, on 07/01/2008, -1/+13Bring it on.
- jiqiren, on 06/30/2008, -1/+12so where can I put a deposit down?
- LoudMusic, on 07/01/2008, -0/+11Using the specs on the previous announced Tesla Roadster compared to a comparable gasoline car, the Roadster was achieving roughly $0.03 / mile versus a gasoline car at around $0.22 / mile.
So, yes, your electric bill will go up. But you won't be visiting the gas station, at all. If you are like me and make a 60 mile daily round-trip commute you'd be saving $60 / week in commuting fuel. Which becomes $3,120 / year. Not to mention the dramatically reduced maintenance costs. No more oil changes, far fewer brake pads, longer lasting tires, no engine belts ... Another three to four hundred dollars a year there. - tnoy, on 07/01/2008, -0/+11If you're about to drop $100k+ on a new car, having a electrician come in and install the charging system would be an insignificant cost.
At most it would be a few hundred dollars. - matu4251, on 07/01/2008, -1/+11I'm pretty sure your electricity bill would seriously increase during those 5 years.
- FrankTheTank17, on 07/01/2008, -0/+10I'm sure the Tesla cars will last a long time. The demand for alternative fuel automobiles are in MUCH HIGHER demand than it was when the EV-1 hit the market.
- yazheirx, on 06/30/2008, -1/+11The only part that concerns me is the retrofit some of us would need for the home charging station. The Roadster requires a dedicated 90 amp circuit. This may be a bit difficult for some people to do. for a comparison most air conditioning systems only require a 30 amp circuit.
I still want one. - Praelior, on 07/01/2008, -6/+1560k? pretty pointless. You know the Volt is going to be half that price. I've been reading these articles about Tesla motors for years now. By the time it finally comes out, they'll be the last ones out the gate.
I'm sure itd be environmentally more friendly to spend 20k on a small ICE car, and spend the remaining 40k planting trees or buying solar panels. - Wasyu, on 07/01/2008, -0/+9KWh is the total energy used not the rate at which it takes power.
Rate would be KW not KWh so yes it would only cost $4.06 to charge it. - MildApplause, on 07/01/2008, -1/+10Maybe they'll offer good financing?
You won't be paying for gas, so you'll have several extra hundred dollars per month to play around with. - Praelior, on 07/01/2008, -0/+8GM has the volt prototype at the autoshow and says it'll be out by 2010... the tesla car probably wont be out for another year at least... and even then more than likely in very limited production. How is that being "so far behind"?
- Pstall, on 07/01/2008, -4/+12Last time I checked the average income level for the US was around 40,000 a year. Since when is 60,000 (not including options) an "affordable" price? I would be more excited if it was selling for 20,000 that way more then maybe 10% of americans could afford this car.
- bobbarkerbilly, on 07/01/2008, -2/+10A company like GM has to use some foresight if they wan't to stay competitive. Instead they end up looking like buffoons that put out gas guzzlers when gas prices are high. Look at Toyota - when gas prices were on the rise years ago, they had the Prius on the street and continued the line despite the prices cooling off. What did GM do? Release a new line of Trucks and SUVs. /facepalm
- PatrickBrown, on 07/01/2008, -2/+10GM had a chance at dominating this market with the EV1. They instead chose to kill it and build more SUVs for quick profits.
Unfortunately, that move hurt more than just the GM executives that made the decision, it hurt the employees that relied on GM who couldn't prevent the stupid direction the company was going in in the late 90s and early part of this decade. - bobartig, on 07/01/2008, -2/+10And that battery, which costs (lets say) $5000 today, will probably be $700 by the time you need to replace it.
- redfred18t, on 07/01/2008, -1/+9smacksaw, you better get to the choppa for that comment :D
- inactive, on 07/01/2008, -0/+860k isn't affordable for most people, though it is affordable for an awful lot of people. This is a step in the right direction.
- olsonick, on 06/30/2008, -0/+8It's not that they're so far behind, I don't think. What reason does GM have to push new technology when old technology is making money like crazy? Just today I listened to a GM advertisement for NEW BIG TRUCKS AND SUVs. I'm really getting sick of putting 60 bucks into my 4-Cylinder Accord every week. It's ridiculous.
- umdigger, on 07/01/2008, -4/+11yes
- robgies, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7Here in the lower mainland of British Columbia gas is around $1.50 per litre. Gas has an energy density of 35 MJ per litre . That is 4.3 cents per MJ. Electricity cost around 6.5 cents per KWHr or 1.8 cents per MJ. When you take into account that a car with good fuel efficiency is still very inefficient overall after you take into account thermal and drivetrain frictional losses it means that an electric car is far ahead in terms of efficiency over a gas car. Electric cars also have the potential to recover some energy with regenerative braking which gives even higher overall efficiency. Gas engines for most cars will have an efficiency of somewhere in the range of 20 to 30 percent. Electric motors can be designed with efficiencies in the high 90s. For future electric cars this means that there is the potential for a possible cost ratio of 10 to 1 for electric over gas vehicles.
- apeweek, on 07/01/2008, -0/+71) Where do you charge it on the go?
I'm an EV driver - I charge my car at work as well as at home. This is ideal, if you have an agreeable employer.
2) Lifespan/ cost of replacing batteries, motors etc.
Varies a lot. My own EV is quite old, but at least lead-acid tech is cheap. Battery replacement cost works out to about 4 to 5 cents/mile (and electricity is 1 to 2 cents/mile.)
At the opposite end are nanotech lithium batteries (Altairnano for example) which are quite expensive, but last the lifetime of the car (20 years or more.)
3) How does the car perform in the cold Northeast winters.
Not an issue for me - I drive my EV in a very cold state - Michigan. If you charge overnight, the batteries are toasty warm in the morning.
4) How much impact will AC, heat, headlights, stereo have on the range of this car?
Not an issue with larger battery packs. The larger the power pack, the smaller the percentage of that power the heat/AC needs. Headlights and stereo are non-issues because these have their own accessory battery, just like in your own car. - tnoy, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7It would save me about $150 a month in gas.
Then again, the monthly payments would be a lot more than the $0 I'm paying now. - Thrilltone, on 07/01/2008, -8/+15We'll have a selection of cool $20,000 electric cars within 2 years.
None of which will be American made, sadly. - stretch611, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7No, some will be American made... just not paying an American exec. It seems now that Toyota and Honda build more cars in the US than GM and Ford.
- parsap, on 07/01/2008, -1/+8Because this is the first generation.
- oldgal, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7He has quite a few - they all run on bio-fuel.
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