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171 Comments
- dgblackout, on 10/12/2007, -7/+311er, yeah... that's the point.
- Joab, on 10/12/2007, -14/+152@ the person that did this you obviously are the digg poster
I've been in the web development and design world for 14 years now. I've worked freelance, contract and full-time in a few fortune 500 companies. I don't know if you have a contract or not but even if you did the only way you could not be sued for this is if your hosting the account yourself. Whether or not they have paid you there are proper channels (the law) for things like this. It's been my experience that when these things happen the company can sue you damages and you most likely will also be charged with theft, breaking and entering and/or more various online related charges.
I've been where you have man . The client are ***** or have their own money issues so you don't get paid. That's why you write your own contracts and you get PAID upon conclusion of the work. I have my own hosting server where all content can be viewed however they don't get the site until I have the last payment OR a contract for payment plans where I can sue if they miss a payment.
Just a word of advice put it back up.
8- Joab - venicerocco, on 10/12/2007, -3/+129"I am the designer..now what?"
Goatse.
May as well go all the way. - themarq, on 10/12/2007, -3/+91It's nice that he did it tastefully too (the designer/webmaster I mean). Posting goatse or some crap would be tempting, but this guy took a higher road (golf clap).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+81Put up some Google ads so we can click 'em for you ;)
- griz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+79Why, so you can screw the designer and still have a site?
- robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -3/+58No wonder they wouldn't pay. I can't understand a god damn word.
- c00ki3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+55such a good idea!! good for him/her. Hope they get their payment soon.....
- SirStu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+54Here's the site from before this happened: http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:http://www.kadunudlootus.ee/
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -2/+53I've seen porn linking done by a asshat designer and it was not because he hadn't been paid it was because the client was trying to terminate their contract (because the designer was an asshat).
- cyberwiz01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+44Apparently .ee is an Estonian domain suffix.
Too bad, I could think of a bunch of great .ee domains
whoop.ee
boot.ee
heeh.ee
weeee.ee, etc. - UrsusMorologus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+40Joab is correct--the right way to do this stuff is to write the contract so that you retain copyright until full payment is made. They can't use what they don't own. If the work is good they'll pay fast.
- dealsdealer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+34 why not this ..........
www.p.ee - datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37"Soon, your reputation as a designer will REALLY be positive. I am sure that clients will bang on your door after you do something like that...."
So what you are saying is that you would prefer to build a reputation as a designer who backs down when payment is not made for services rendered? Yeah that's a great business plan... - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32Looks like a pretty decent site. I feel bad for the designer for not getting paid.
- heavensblade23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28Who wants clients that don't pay?
- UglyShirts, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28I've done this before. Got me fired. However, the client DID have to pay someone else to fix it and secure a new domain name, so even if I didn't get paid, it was still a win.
- supermanred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27When I used to web design I would put up a static picture of a fish centered on the screen. No explanation, or demand of payment. Just a fish.
It worked.
This was of course just for majorly late accounts. - saladtossser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25redirection to a competitor would be sweet
- JacNet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25Dude, the designer WORKED HARD on a layout for him and didn't get payed, he was SCAMMED.
That makes him a douche for taking the design off? - jinglee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24ok, I am the designer, and have been listening to all your comments..now what?
- afx1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21"Put up some Google ads so we can click 'em for you ;)"
First retitle the page "mesothelioma" then put up the ads. - Sippi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+28If this doesn't work you can always threating to link them to a porn site.
- rtakach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19dude how is this considered 'vigilante justice?'
If you don't pay your electric bill, they shut your lights off
If you don't make your car payment, they take your car
How is this any different? You are receiving a service and when you do not pay for it, you don't get it.
I have been in this situation before, building websites for bands. One band was 60 days overdue on their payment. I had provided a quote before the job, my client agreed to the pricing, and when I invoiced he didn't pay me. He owed me like $900. After repeated attempts to collect, I finally took the site down and put the same message up "site is down due to unpaid invoice." He called me up SCREAMING about how that's not how business is supposed to work. Well, that's how MY business works when you don't pay me for services rendered greater than 90 days ago.
He sent someone to my house with a check and once it cleared I restored the website.
Is it vigilante justice? - aboyd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I do not agree with those of you suggesting that he put the site back up because he could be sued. What grounds will they sue for? Sure, they could try it. But if they're too cheap to follow through with a payment, I suspect they won't pour thousands into a lawsuit that has no merit. Look, the designer doesn't need a contract to retain copyright until payment. Copyrights are his. I know, I know -- when you engage in a "work for hire" the employer gets the copyright... but until they pay him, he hasn't been HIRED, so no "work for hire" agreement can be invoked! I do agree that he should have a contract for other reasons, such as to set a small % of interest on unpaid balances.
The designer should be careful, though. He should only remove what hasn't been paid for. If they paid him to do a logo and he took down the entire site which was built by someone else, that seems actionable. Only remove what is still unpaid. - JacNet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Wow, you can get .ee domains now?
- mattyG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13fr.ee?
- ezweave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13What are you talking about? Most smaller companies do not do their own hosting.
Ten to one this is being hosted by a hosting company, the designer has the password for the account/ftp/database, and hopefully (as such) will get paid (assuming nothing else is going on).
However, with no information about what happened (exactly) you have no idea what really happened. - brbubba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13If the contract is written such that the designer owns all Intellectual Property then I don't see why they aren't within their rights to take the site down, i.e., the company that contracted them is only renting the IP for an unlimited period of time and without payment the contract is null and void. Even if the designer doesn't retain IP control I would think a non-payment would nullify the contract and hence nullify any rights the contractor has to the IP. I do agree that they could initially wind up in hot water, the company could claim theft, cybercrime, etc., but I don't think there would be any long term repercussions once it gets to the court level.
- kernelhappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13He probably should have just put up a cheesey "we'll be back shortly" message. While I think he is within his right to to suspend their usage of his product until payment is made, embarassing the customer won't help him much in the long run.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I've had to do that before... it didnt work for me.
- versapak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11huh?
How is that vigilante justice?
The designer sold a product. The client didn't pay. The designer repossessed the product.
Try not paying for your house or car. - napier, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@ datastorageguy
Just because they don't pay doesn't mean that you should be a douche and link it to porn. As a designer the majority of work you get is by word of mouth. How will it look to other potential clients when you take out petty revenge against a nonpaying client? - affanjam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10What kind of fish?
- ABadInAlbany, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13debatable. not getting paid == not paying the rent. but I guess that's OK if you live in Mommy's basement.
I've had to deal with difficult clients. the only way to go is a rock solid contract, and a good lawyer. - flewid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Sucks when this happens. I have a client that's not paying up myself. I actually called my lawyer to see if it was legally viable for me to put up a similar notice on the offenders site. From what I've been told, technically no, it's illegal. However, practically, what will said client actually do besides get pissed off and pay.
Bottom line, put up a notice and hope it gets them to pay.
Here's my example: http://www.tremblayrenovation.com
PS: I'm in canada, so not sure on other laws. - dogshaft, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Even better... www.eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.ee!
- exick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9If your concept of not backing down is linking to or threatening to link to porn, then you can expect future clients to be equally mature and professional.
- danz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10these would be fun to own and are available
www.chimpanz.ee
www.frisb.ee
www.whoop.ee
www.manat.ee - moosebumps, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I've had no choice but to do that as well. Unfortunately, all it got me was some death threats.
- x3nos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8IANAL, but there is probably no legal precedent for this, however if you purchase a vehicle through a finance company and are late on your payments and the said finance company repossesses your car are they liable to be charged with extortion? I think not
- 3mpire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8resetting the password wouldn't do the client any good as the designer would have taken all the site's files OFF the production server. The only copies of the deliverables would be safely on the designer's hard drive. The only way to get them would be to pay for them. Good for the designer. Note to all designers: don't publish files to the live site until you have received payment.
- sporb, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11jinglee, if anything, just take the whole site down until they pay you. it's their word against yours. courts will tell them to pay for it if they want it, and i highly doubt they would take something like this to court.
- Louis11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8On the bright side, http://www.kadunudlootus.ee/ is sure getting a lot of traffic.
- ashchristopher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It would have been nice to have some sort of backstory or explanation. Oh well, maybe the designer will see it on DIGG and write something about it.
- pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Too bad he didn't upload a 5 megabyte jpeg with that text instead. Digg could've helped him drive the point home with some bandwidth bills.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10After seeing what it looks like, I'd keep it down:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:bOmJxMw-pugJ:www.kadunudlootus.ee/+http://www.kadunudlootus.ee/&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a - aboyd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10@Joab,
I still don't believe you. People have to break into cars to reposses them, for example. And this guy wasn't even breaking in, he had a password and was authorized to work on the server! Sure, his removal of HIS files was an unwanted "transaction" but non-payment is unwanted too! Why does a delinquent client gets all the rights here? Can you link to a law that spells out such protection?
For what it's worth, I've done similar to some of my bad clients. They typically offer to pay, or they accept that they don't have the files anymore. Is it a gamble? Sure. People can sue even if they don't have a case. One of my clients could have done that. But they never did, and I would have been happy to fight them in court. The client would say, "your honor, we want those files we didn't pay for!" C'mon. - wired4u, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I work at a hosting company, you would be surprised to know this happens quite often. When a client dose not pay the easiest way to get them to cough up the money is to take down their site so they lose business and google rankings. The name on the account is more then likely the designers and he is probably the admin contact on the whois so the "owner" will have no legal recourse to get their files or their domain name back.
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