What is Digg?69 Comments
- numberneal, on 12/01/2007, -2/+301. Wanting Great Designs for Cheap Prices; spell it out to them if required: I AM NOT ON SALE! you need a cheap design go to templates.com and let me get back to work.
- WoollyMittens, on 12/01/2007, -0/+14I don't dare put URL's to finished webdesign projects in my portfolio anymore. But if you do, make sure you check them regularly. Without fail I've seen finished projects degenerate to junk: Carefully selected stock photography gets replaced with the manager's holiday snaps... in 5 megapixel jpeg offcourse. Small, three sentence, introductions are replaced with 20000 word company manifests written by a comity of disagreeing department heads. And all manner of disasterous flash and gif animations are entered into the CMS by well-meaning secretaries.
- junosama, on 12/01/2007, -0/+12Exactly. I think forums like digital point give a bad rep for designers too because a lot of people who use gimp and Photoshop do banners and logos for like 5 bucks on there. Then you have the whole outsourcing to India and other countries issue. I think designers really have to fight back and stand by their work and prices.
- djsputnik, on 12/01/2007, -0/+8my standard contract includes three revisions. after that it is spelled out clearly that my client will be paying my hourly rate. best way to keep a client in check is to tell them up front what you will do for the fee.
- jellomizer, on 12/01/2007, -0/+6Easy Solution for most of them:
Agree to work hourly, give them a rough estimate state it is a rough estimate, and bill hourly... When you do fixed price work clients will demand everything uncompromising, because they want to get the best value. If it takes your 3 times a long even because you client is improperly managing the project it is the same price for them, so they don't care... So if it is an easy job you win if it is a hard job your client wins...
Going hourly puts more pressure on the client to actually make real decisions Is it worth it for you to waist 16 hours trying to remake their logo because they only sent you a 50x100 px Highly compressed jpg image of it. Or with the fact you are charging them say $50 an hour the manager will go and search the network drive and find the actual High Resolution Logo which was in Photoshop format, with all the layers intact. If you are dealing with bad managing clients you make more money, the risk is if you have good managing clients then you will still get your fare share but it may be done under the quoted estimate. Still for most cases your better off... This works for software development too. - GorfTron, on 12/01/2007, -0/+6I think the #1 thing in working independent is being in control. Either you are in control or you will suffer greatly at the hands of others.
- jamble, on 12/01/2007, -0/+6A good tip for web designers when building for clients is to specify in your contract that you will deploy their site to a test/dev domain for them to provide final approval and then you invoice for any outstanding money before pushing their sites live to their own domain.
This helps reduce the amount of time it takes to collect payment and while providing the client with something tangible to sign off. - inactive, on 12/01/2007, -0/+5maybe you need to find better designers. most of them suck, just like most people.
good design is a HUGE part of the bottom line, but most people are too dull to see that.
and most designers have their heads so far up their asses, trying to impress other designers.
good design shouldn't call attention to itself, it should just seem like it was always that way, transparent and ego-less. - WoollyMittens, on 12/01/2007, -0/+4Your portfolio must vindicate your higher rates. I've seen tons of customers run away to have their work outsourced or done by "some guy the CEO met in a bar". They deserve exactly what they get and if you stay friendly, they might even return after they have learned their lesson. You get what you pay for.
- nhassan, on 12/01/2007, -1/+5http://www.duggmirror.com
- Kajico, on 12/01/2007, -0/+4Here's one that's not on there that comes up way too often. Quoting an estimate on a project, which the client then goes and shops around with for over a month, and when nobody will do it for the same price or will produce ***** for the same price, they come back to you and want a quick turn around because their deadline is coming up soon.
- jellomizer, on 12/01/2007, -0/+3Well you were stupid enough not to go to your boss first and explain your ethics. What you did was pissed off the client and they client went to your boss. Now you are in trouble. If you went to your boss first then he can deal with the client and you have better chances of getting off clean are better. Either that if it was illegal then your boss would be resoncible not you.
- Joshuarr, on 12/01/2007, -0/+3But remember that you have to charge and pay tax on physical deliverables. (That's one reason that my design company does get paid to be a data warehouse.)
- Nougat, on 12/01/2007, -0/+3Moreover, you may also have to tell them up front what you will *not* do for the fee.
- WoollyMittens, on 12/01/2007, -0/+3When you're half dead and you need to be fed. Get liquid bread.
- Nougat, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Data from years ago - if you're going to keep data, it should not be backed up on hard drives, it should be backed up to tape or optical media. Better yet, hand over all project data to the customer at the end of the project (again, on tape or optical media, not sent by email), with clear instructions that you are no longer responsible for this data.
You're not getting paid to be a data warehouse. - carbonetc, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2This is why I stopped working for clients except in special cases. It's an incredibly unrewarding life. I got a big corporate job where people actually value the designers and developers they hand work to and I never looked back.
- anands, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Very nicely said man. Great designs don't come cheap. Quality work needs to be appreciated.
Anand - prammy, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2"Or if you want a hot girlfriend you have to imagine her yourself."
This is true for most people on digg anyway. - teabagginz, on 12/01/2007, -1/+3http://makemylogobiggercream.com/
- littleorfnannie, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2This is why I REFUSE to do contract design work EVER again. I had the WORST experience. Not only did my client and his girlfriend think he knew how to design (why didn't he just do it himself?), but he refused to pay the money we had originally agreed upon because he said my work was crap (although this was only commented upon after the projects were done and when I was asking for money....). I'm glad I work for a company now.
- WoollyMittens, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Sadly, not everyone is as gifted in the arts as you are. :)
- adml_shake, on 12/01/2007, -1/+3Maybe your just and ***** and the reason why we have to have contracts done up for every little ***** detail.
- ruscoe, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2More accurately; to get the exact design you want, you have to do it yourself. Lots of people, me included, aren't artistically gifted enough to do it ourselves, so we usually accept a designer's interpretation of the design we tell them we want. It's usually better anyway.
- inactive, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2go ahead and make that list, if you think you have so much to say. nothing on this list is outrageous, it's standard practice for those of us who have to deal with smug parasites like you probably are. go ahead and stick with crappy design, and exploiting people who don't know better. you're hardly alone in that. hardly makes you right.
- Joshuarr, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Just like to get a properly functioning & secure ecommerce site you have to code it yourself. Just like if you want a nice car you have to build it yourself. Or if you want a hot girlfriend you have to imagine her yourself.
- Joshuarr, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1I get the feeling you are one of the clients that made this guy write the list in the first place. If you pony up for a designer with a good book or a reputable studio you should be fine. If you go with the cheapest bidder or just don't do the legwork to find a good shop then I have no pity for you.
- Joshuarr, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1Soof, your first post was *****. If I were going to trial, I'd hire a lawyer. If you need a template for your ecart then I suggest hiring a designer. You might be a talented designer, but the fact is that most people are not.
- adml_shake, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1Thats very true, or you might get stuff dumped on you thats outside the scope of your project.
- centran, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1$50? wow you are a cheap designer! More like 80-120.
- positron, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1I'd suggest using tape or solid state drives. The lifespan of optical media isn't all that great for archival purposes.
- goobit, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1Well, on DP, you get what you pay for. $5 = $5 quality. I have yet to see cheap prices even on DP equate to high quality. If anyone thinks paying $5, $10, even $50 on DP gets you awesome quality design, you must not have high standards. Not that they're bad or anything, they're not great either.
- teabagginz, on 12/02/2007, -0/+1That sucks.... what also sucks is that happens way too common.
- Scheissen, on 12/02/2007, -0/+1wow what crappy designer doesn't keep a backup of their work if not just for legality?
- skinturtle, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1Hey you ass mitten..you're probably one of those twits who want their logo bigger with florescent colors all over the page. It's called ARROGANCE..and it wouldn't be going in any magazine I published. We're the experts ...not you.
You need to visit the link below...
http://www.makemylogobiggercream.com/
...and shut your mouth!! - babar77, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1But if someone is paying all the money and assuming all the risk on the success or failure of your design, I'm sorry you can't have all the control. Here's a fact of life that a lot of designers I've worked with fail to realize: If you want all the control, then you have to front all the cash and assume all the risk. BTW, when I say risk I mean risk = threats + opportunity. FAR too many designers don't understand this fact of life. I'm a designer too, I just have a background in electrical engineering, not graphical design. The sooner you as a designer realizes this fact, the more prosperous and less stressful life will be.
- scarysnow, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1Nor does it depend on athletes or actors, but people value them nonetheless.
- russy, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1A golden rule that applies to design and all other forms of business:
FASTER, BETTER, CHEAPER
Make your client aware that they can have two but must be prepared to compromise on the third.
Faster & Better = Wont be cheap
Faster & Cheaper = Wont be the best
Better & Cheaper = Join the queue - it wont be fast! - Rapax, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1Because design is, after all, pretty irrelevant. It's like asking why the few good chainsaw jugglers shouldn't receive the same as airline pilots. Yeah, it's nifty if you can do it, but the world doesn't really depend on your 'talent'.
- Scheissen, on 12/02/2007, -0/+13-D work is similar.
What I do is create a quick mock-up, have the client sign off. Then they get to add what they want and I get to okay it unless they want to pay more hourly rates then I'm not going to bother to charge. - cliffzdude, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1All the points are valid, I think that designers would be well advised to speak with, network with, and learn from those who have been coming across such things for a long time. Other careers in other industries deal with the same things, just a bit different in scope. Sales people, architects, network guys, cabling techs, all deal with pricing a job and having the client want the moon for the price of a balloon. They want changes for free, and they want it yesterday. I'm on the other side of the desk now, I work with vendors on a daily basis, and I try REALLY hard to meet in the middle. Fair price for good work, I live by those words. Understand those who deal with vendors (think designers and/or programmers as well) deal with ***** from the other side of the desk as well. Promises not kept. Prices inflated when you've invested in said vendor or designer. Shoddy work, bad attitude.
A good professional takes control of their side of the desk as best they can, and doing so requires a bit of (excuse the cliche) partnering with a client. - Raiku, on 12/01/2007, -2/+2These are pretty good. He can expand on these tips though.
For instance:
"9. Asking for Way to Many Revisions"
You can demand for more money for each revision/redesigns. - scarysnow, on 12/01/2007, -0/+0if so many designs are crappy, it's worth it to pay what good design is worth
- scarysnow, on 12/01/2007, -0/+0the problem is that many people do not value what good design is worth; as rare as it is. but if good designers are as rare as good doctors, why shouldn't they receive the same respect (and in some cases) similar monetary worth?
- centran, on 12/01/2007, -1/+1Too bad you are going to get dugg down but you are right. Most of these are designers complaining.
What someone needs to right is a comprehensive article on guidelines designers should follow and what they should expect from clients.
Expecting High resolution files(as in pixel count not just dpi) is a standard.
Giving clients files should be required! You should not act as a data storage nor should your clients expect it.
You should NEVER bill clients for printing. You can have a recommend print shop but billing should be handled by the customer.
Things like that. - Soofi, on 12/01/2007, -1/+1It's more to do with persistence rather than having some gifted ability. A keen eye helps and understanding of color psychology. Good design is an evolving process, you first lay out a few things, and then you tweak and tweak, and then you come back after a few days, and some of the things which looked great before probably look offensive now, so you start modifying until you get a nice blend between all the elements.
If I have to use my own site every day and I don't like the look of some things, then what I can expect my visitors to think? Either you pay your designers by the hour and have them revise everything until it is all perfect, or you do it yourself. In my case, I do have to use our company site every day so we begin to notice all the finer points and details, thus the need to refine everything until we have a neutral but tasteful design. - constantC, on 12/01/2007, -1/+1I paraphrase Greer Allen, Printer to Yale: "Dear client, your options are good, cheap & fast. You may choose two, but you may not have all three."
- crapmatic, on 12/01/2007, -1/+1The domain youthedesigner.com is hosted by Liquid Web. A couple of months ago, all the Digg effect sites seemed to be GoDaddy... now it's Liquid Web.
- inactive, on 12/03/2007, -0/+0It`s always the same...I practically quit the design business. I only do it when the price is right.
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