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235 Comments
- dse78759, on 05/26/2009, -1/+11015 page slideshow that has a different swf on each page ! Awesome ! Efficient! Retarded.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -0/+99External Debt
15. United States
14. Norway
13. Finland
12. Sweden
11. Spain
10. Germany
9. Denmark
8. France
7. Austria
6. Switzerland
5. Netherlands
4. Hong Kong
3. Belgium
2. UK
1. Ireland
*based on % of their GDP - Hillsfar, on 05/26/2009, -16/+107A lot of economists like to compare a country's debt to their GDP, as if it were a person's debt to income. But that's not helpful and not realistic at all!
Think about it. If you make $30,000 per year and you owe $30,000, it's possible to pay it off in a few years to several years, depending on how you live. You could move in with your parents or have a roommate or live in your van, you could grow some of your own food, buy in bulk, live frugally, etc. It's not too difficult for someone making $30,000 pear year to pay a $ all back in about 6 years.
But a country's GDP is the value of all goods produced in a year. It's NOT income! That's a baker making and selling muffins to customers. That's a farmer selling grain to Russia. Very little of it can be used to pay off a nation's debt because any of the profit that is taxed, gets used up by local, state, and federal governments for other goods and services - like handing out Social Security and Medicare and welfare, and education and policing and military spending. Very little of the taxes goes to servicing debt.
All our nation is doing right now is doing what any person on a payday loan roll-over does, except our government gets to do it at favorable interest rates of 2 to 4 percent while the poor convenience store attendant down the street has interest rates in the triple digits!
But as our budget deficit grows and as interest compounds, like any exponential function, we WILL get to that hockey stick surge and well before then, it will be too late! Some say we are already at that inflection point. - AnotherCanadian, on 05/27/2009, -5/+56Buried for horrible slideshow
- voluntarist, on 05/27/2009, -1/+51Irish Facepalm Lower Right: http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Ana ...
- Sejes89, on 05/27/2009, -0/+44Well I was expecting Canada, happily, it was not there.
Oh Canada! - airwalke, on 05/27/2009, -5/+47Dugg for making complete, and utter sense.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -0/+33811%? Oh Danny Boy....
- voluntarist, on 05/27/2009, -12/+43It should be noted that the US has the greatest total debt ($13.627 trillion). =(
- Pinkertinkle, on 05/27/2009, -6/+34China's only communist in name, it's actually authoritarian-capitalist.
- backflipper, on 05/27/2009, -1/+28But there are also 300+ million people that live in the US. So it would be better to compare the US with the European Union as a whole, which has ~500 million people and ~ $15 trillion GDP (US has ~ $14 trillion GDP. By my calculation using only the countries in this list, the EU countries have over $16 trillion in debt. Of course, this isn't a good thing as all the countries in this list have far too much debt and cannot continue on the same path.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -6/+31missed the memo that said hong kong was a nation
- shniper, on 05/27/2009, -0/+24Thanks. Slideshows are *****.
- adamerica2007, on 05/27/2009, -1/+23we're not number 1! we're not number 1!
- Wreckage, on 05/27/2009, -7/+26So capitalism is better than communism and yet we owe China billions.
Seems like an epic form of irony to me. - GraceHead, on 05/27/2009, -20/+39RON PAUL 2012
- Pinkertinkle, on 05/27/2009, -4/+21Hong Kong isn't a nation.
- alienufo, on 05/27/2009, -1/+18because he has no idea what either of those words mean
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -1/+18Ireland is screwed.
- Velnich, on 05/27/2009, -0/+16Silly me for assuming the flags shown on the first page represented the countries included on the list.
- drjekelmrhyde, on 05/27/2009, -3/+18To be Fair China just got Hong Kong back in 97' from the UK
- liquisoft, on 05/27/2009, -6/+20(And the United States)
- SemiSarcastic, on 05/27/2009, -2/+15Huh...I though the US would be at least be in the top ten.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -4/+16Yeah? What about that one.... what was it now... the US?
- ousthouse, on 05/27/2009, -2/+14China comes in and repos your cars.
- Pinkertinkle, on 05/27/2009, -2/+14Does it? Why?
- 1b2a, on 05/27/2009, -1/+13By prostituting all the women and children.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -0/+11According to the CIA World Fact Book, Ireland's debt/GDP is only 32%, not 800%.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ... - GDOG5, on 05/27/2009, -3/+14So whats that country in surplus with 8% growth? China! Yes, they have taken a more market approach, but they are still heavily socialist. I mean, *****, they're god dam communists!
- pimpofpixels, on 05/27/2009, -3/+14Before Bush: $5.727 trillion.
And he also sacked Social Security. - MofS, on 08/13/2009, -1/+12We're freaking out over just 0.05 trillion $CAD which is 26.5% of our GDP.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/05/26/flaherty- ... - sammysoul, on 05/27/2009, -0/+10There's a reason why CNBC zeroed in on External Debt only. It's hardly a good indicator by itself to rank the "performance" of countries' governments, since external debt includes public AND private debt. Huge private investment from abroad, as is the case in Ireland e.g., naturally increases external debt, but if the investments were sound it will benefit the country in the long run.
If you want solid information definitely don't go to CNBC. - Mitaphane, on 05/27/2009, -0/+10Using a country's debt compared with GDP because it gives a comparison across economies regardless of the currency the debt is priced in. We might have the highest absolute govt debt (in $ terms) but not compared with how much the govt can tax out of the economy we are only 15th. Like most economic figures they are used a benchmark, not some thing that is 100% accurate. To use your example, even if you make $30,000/Yr you realistically don't net that much after taxes, costs of living, etc to service your debt. However, comparing your maximum potential income with your debt is good way to figure how much debt your taking on compared with what you could be paying. Likewise, GDP is a potential tax base (or income) even if realistically not all of it is taxed.
A more likely scenario with U.S. Govt debt is that you will see it inflated away to the point where those trillions of debt (and billions in interest) aren't worth as much as they are now. We're seeing it now as the Fed is doing everything in its power to buy all kinds of things. They're trying to prevent the opposite from happening deflation, where the US Govt debt just keeps getting larger. - infinitus1, on 05/27/2009, -2/+12Ireland is far from being a socialist country.
- fangor, on 05/27/2009, -1/+11It's frightening that most of the best places to live are all on this list. Does one have to live in poverty now just to break even?
- dscan, on 05/27/2009, -2/+12the US doesn't look so bad after all, right guys? c'mon, help me out...
- yaosio, on 05/27/2009, -4/+14Actually the US government owes individuals more money than China, it also owes itself more money than China; over 4 times the amount it owes China. China is brought up by idiots that don't understand how debt works. Did you know that government bonds are debt? Well now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
- PhotoJustin, on 05/27/2009, -3/+12Maybe I'm not familiar with Hong Kong's spending practices...but how in the bloody hell did Hong Kong get up there?
And we're not looking all that bad. I think we all thought the US would be up at the top. Of course, we're at the top in total debt, but on a per capita basis, or on a percentage basis, hey....not too shabby. - 1b2a, on 05/27/2009, -7/+16He's got a chance.
- TrevorBradley, on 05/27/2009, -0/+9@teraki: Your numbers are way off.
0.05 trillion is the Conservative government's latest deficit number for this fiscal year, not Canada's overall debt. The numbers in the slideshow were for overall debt of these countries.
Our GDP as of 2007 was 1.27 trillion.
Our actual debt to GDP ratio is somewhere around 20%.
@yaosio: Canadians are known as notorious penny pinchers. The latest budget has a $50 billion deficit (about $45 billion US). That's going to be scandalous in most quarters.
Then again, if the numbers above are correct we could spend about 400 billion dollars to get our debt to GDP up to the American level. We could start a war with that kind of money. I'll take national fiscal solvency instead, thanks. ;) - Wreckage, on 05/27/2009, -1/+9Ireland is #1? Is whiskey that expensive?
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -3/+11It is a nation. Separate Currency, Separate Immigration, Has Democracy, Independent Government and Police force.
- Mihey, on 05/27/2009, -0/+8Oddly enough, most of those European countries are still well-to-do.
- PixelMagic, on 05/27/2009, -13/+21he can't win, don't jizz yourself
- irkalla, on 05/27/2009, -1/+9"as if it were a person's debt to income."
You're the only one making that assumption. This article is comparing the debt of countries to the debt of other countries. In context, comparing them as a % of GDP makes perfect sense. Larger countries are more aptly able to handle more debt.
No, it isn't quite as easy to pay off as consumer debt, but you seem to be the only one saying it is. - Kaegro, on 05/27/2009, -0/+6so is the US.
- inactive, on 05/27/2009, -1/+8Because it lost the opium war to the Europeans.
- MicahT0078, on 05/27/2009, -2/+9They chopped their business taxes a few years back and became call center and corporate headquarters favorites for awhile. They also offered many incentives to attract businesses. Once the businesses started leaving for cheaper markets Ireland was left holding the bag. Unemployment is now skyrocketing and they have little to no tax income, yet they still have social programs to support.
One point that should be made is that this list is a terrible benchmark for any noteworthy economic comparison. External debt does not have much relation to GDP and can be twisted to show just about any economic point one wishes to prove. The fact that it is from CNBC should give you an idea on what kind of a slant they are going for. - 23cranberries, on 05/27/2009, -0/+7Glad my country isn't there in that list.
Oh, and yeah, ***** slides. -
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