What is Digg?173 Comments
- CrashKC, on 08/25/2008, -29/+133So apparently the real tragedy is making extremely poor choices and griping about the consequences?
- templest, on 10/12/2007, -6/+63Moral of the story: Never go into debt unless you're sure the investment will pay off. Don't pay for 4 years of university only to get a BA in English unless you plan on teaching it.
- Lewisham, on 10/12/2007, -6/+46Yeah, she only has herself to blame. Anthrpology is not a first-class ticket to salary, she spent time studying abroad, and she repeatedly went looking for more and more loan money and lived outside of her means.
Plus, some of her figures are inaccurate. It was only this week that UK students I believe had an average debt of around £13000, which is $23000.
The American college system does seem to be a much larger money pit than in other countries (speaking as a UK student who went abroad to California), but I assume that it works, because the majority turn out OK.
She just made bad choice after bad choice, particuarly when it came to looking to loan man whenever she needed cash. - bitt3n, on 10/12/2007, -6/+46the truth hurts like the sharp sting of a bee. your comment has more of the dull throb of idiocy.
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -5/+44"Since my degree wasn't helping me find work"
Since I graduated in 2003, I have had 3 jobs directly related to my degree (Chemistry) with each one paying more with better benifits than the last.
Choose a ***** major, get ***** jobs. Choose a hard major, get good jobs. The monetary cost between the two degrees is identical. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -7/+41"But there's only so much sacrifice people can handle before they're bled dry, and only so long a country can prosper on credit cards and loans that can't be reasonably repaid."
This is a great line. I think one of the worst inventions to ever impact the world market would have to be the credit card. I'm all for responsibility, but even if you're completely responsible, the irresponsible spending of others who go bankrupt can do things like throw off the economy and create higher-than-normal interest rates.
I think you're being a little harsh Zoom. Not everybody is as worldly and fluent in the language of finances right out of high school as you are. - anasazi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33so wait a second, she's a woman, top of her class and she started school in a "low income" family ... and she has no scholarships? she obviously hasn't even tried. there are scholarships out there simply because she lacks a penis and came from a "low income" family, the top of her class thing just puts icing on the cake. if she even attempted to get scholarships she'd be making a profit to go to school.
unless your a white male from a lower middle class family with average grades trying to get grants/scholarships, STFU. no one wants to give us scholarships, at all. - Pic0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27"To be fair, I made the choices that put me in this situation. I attended an expensive university 3,000 miles from home. I stayed at that school, even though I could get a cheaper education elsewhere. I studied an impractical subject that I loved, then continued my studies at an obscure foreign university. I wasn't always aware of financial consequences."
Moral of the story, don't go across the country and pay three times the tuition if you don't know for SURE you can afford it for at least four years. You must be able to LIVE to be able to help others. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23wow. im currently attending sva in nyc and its costing me 35k a year. add that up. im going into my second year and im still 11k short. perhaps i should just drop out. theres an article floating here on digg about how parents should be teaching their kids to save for a home, not a college education. afterall, u can live off minimum wage if own your house.
- thecabanaboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23It sounds like this person made all of their own decisions and did everything they "wanted" (not needed, there IS a difference) and now is complaining that doing everything she wanted "cost" her. Sorry, but I really can't feel sorry for you!
- VorpalK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20... and worth every penny!
/duck - danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Exactly I graduated with an Engineering Degree with less then $10K in student loans. The $100 a month payment is really not difficult, it helps that the interest rates are less the 2%. Get a degree in something usefull and use your extra resources and spare time to do good.
- Ottergoose, on 10/12/2007, -4/+201. Go to really expensive school
2. Don't bother working while at school
3. Get worthless degree
4. ???
5. Profit! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21Moral of the story, don't go to school unless you absolutely have to and if you do, be prepared to work your ass off...ESSSSPECIALLYYYYY when you get out of school.
- BNU alumni - duestown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Moral of the story: major in something useless, and no one will want to hire you, especially if you have no other skills coming out of graduation besides waxing poetic on random *****. A lot of my friends at school are about to figure this out the hard way. Thank God I'm an engineer.
And for Pete's sake, if you can't afford USC, go to your state university; you can still get an excellent education.
P.S. I should really stop reading any Alternet links... - ArmchairAthlete, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Georgia Institute of Technology tuition cost to me: $0
- Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23Wow... Now if you take a stab at gender equality too, we'll REALLY think you're THE MAN.
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12As a 5-year planner who worked 35 hours a week year round during STATE school with no grants I have no sympathy for this person whatsoever.
- hack314, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"Myshele Goldberg is an aspiring Ph.D. in Edinburgh, Scotland."
..she apparently didn't learn her lesson.. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Good luck in this housing market nowadays, don't drop out it looks worse on your cv, keep going push harder, and don't let people walk all over you when you have a major. You can make alot of money later to pay off those debts, just remember to negotiate a good salary so you can pay off your debts, save, and pay for a house. ;)
- jldugger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Well if your dream was to be hired by a company that judges a person soley by the quality of activities they put on a resume ("I dutifully pursued volunteer work, leadership training, part-time jobs, and anything else that would 'look good on the resume."), that's fine I suppose. But in the meantime, you've demonstrated quite an inability to grasp finance, and the selection of a degree like anthropology fails to communicate any economic value to the hiring party.
College is the best time for a person to learn the merits of frugality. You don't have children or a spouse to deal with, and there's plenty of equally miserly folk about in a college town. Step one is to re-evaluate attending an out of state college, if you're in the US. Especially on the east coast, prices are incredible (their in-state costs as much as my school charges for out-of-state, frequently). If you can't get access to a computer you need in a library, don't be so quick to spend money you don't have on a laptop when a 500 dollar desktop could accomplish the same goals at a third the price. And if you can't earn an advanced degree on someone else's dime, it's time to look long and hard at what skills you've developed, who wants them, and how you can use these to make ends meet. Yes, this might mean people from modest financial resources like ourselves can't study abroad forever, but I think the benefits of studying abroad are perhaps overweighted, much like eating cavier.
That said, student loans are dirt cheap. I'm currently on deferrment for returning to school, and the interest rate I'm not paying is almost as much as, if not equal to, the rate you can get from treasury T-Bills. The companies giving me a loan are not making a good profit; in fact I've known one or two unscroupulus individuals who took on additional low rate student loans they didn't need so they could funnel money into investments and reap the subsidized interest benefits. The real crime isn't student loans for tuition, it's the laisse-faire attitude campuses demonstrate with reguards to credit card promotions. It's nearly criminal; often students are already spending more money than they're earning, to offer them a highly liquid and discretionary loan you know they can't afford because you also know they can't get out of it (recent credit card bankruptcy "superpriority" legislation) is awful. - billmania, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14I find myself asking if college is even worth it these days, by the time you figure in all the rediculus debt/badgering from Sallie Mae, and the like, in the aggregate, you''d almost think that you'd make more working in a factory after all the debt.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17"poor choices? did you read the article.. this is loan debt.. paying for tuition.. not partying and being an idiot wasitng money.. some peoples are not lucky enough to pay for their tuition.... even though it would have been smarter if this particular lady choose a cheaper school to go to if she didnt have much money.."
Lucky enough? Personally I worked my ass off for 5 years and got through college without one cent of debt (my family contributed absolutely nothing). It's called a job. Parents need to instill a work ethic in their children long before they ever get to college to prevent just this type of sob story. - mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Hang on, my violin is around here somewhere.
When I went to college, I worked 4 nights a week during semester, and 6 days a week during breaks. I have no student loan, and no-one gave me a penny. Even having been to College, I question whether everyone needs to go, there just seems to be this expecation to. I don't use my education in my current employment, and I don't care, I earn more.
If I had my time again, I would have gone straight into employment, and used the money I spent at University on property. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"Yet I made my choices based on the values I had been taught -- that helping others is more important than making money for yourself, meaningful career is more important than net worth, and brains, determination, and charisma are the key ingredients of success. I realize now that I subscribed to the fantasy of an equal society, when in fact everyone's options arise from class, race, gender, and a thousand other subtle differences in our experiences, assumptions, and privileges."
This is extremely contradictory. First you admit you chose a career that other people value so little, they don't pay you much for it, despite your advanced degree. Then you blame society for your situation, and claim you had no choice, and somehow have been descriminated against. If anything, blame Christianity for teaching you that self-sacrifice is better than self interest.
The Warren Buffett story the other day addresses this issue by mentioning that Warren Buffett's skill as a capitalist is overshadowed by his philanthropy, because of the myth that the former is base, while the latter is noble. - thrasher6670, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I love canada; 3.5 years of college: $10,000. made that delivering pizza while at school
- LordLucless, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11She did get grants and scholarships. They weren't quite enough to cover the tuition first year. In the second year, her tuition went up $2000, and her mother's income went up $1000. The increase in her mother's income was enough to take her family out of the low-income area, and she lost half her grant. Reading comprehension FTW.
- eyecantremember, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11So you're saying...
"Leave the pursuit of social and economic justice to the rich."
Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out great for society. - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9You are right about one thing, the Plant Operators in the factory where i work and I make nearly the same amount of money. BUT, my job is relatively easy and in the A/C, while they sweat like hell and work their asses off every night.
- georgelogy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Isn't that the truth. People waste their time in obscure majors that offer no job prospects out of school, then complain when they have trouble finding a job.
I'll graduate with an engineering degree this December, and have received several unsolicited job offers already. I have a job lined up already starting in January. I worked my butt off every summer working two jobs to pay for it, and have no loans. It took me 6 years to get through it. It wasn't easy to finish, but it was interesting. And the degree is actually useful in todays world.
The choices you make today affect tomorrow, That's life. - returnofmalv, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"What!!?! You mean I have to pay it back?"
- x0rtrunks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"the recession following 9-11" ?!
Please! Listen honey, you can't blame 9-11 for this one. Anthropology degrees were worthless long before that. - Goner, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Hey, their forebearers put forth the effort to GET rich so that their offspring COULD enjoy their youth without the pressures of having to actually EARN their way through it. I am as jealous and envious of the silver-spoon trust fund babies as the next guy, but someone earned that money...
If I can earn enough to allow my daughter to spend her youth with a light course load, plenty of pot and lots of free time, I plan to do so. If not, she can WORK her way to a scholarship or just skip it entirely and join the workforce straight away. - Ottergoose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I remember when my folks were having a house built. We went to the site to check the progress, and the guy laying the cinder blocks for our foundation was kneeling in the mud, and looked up through the mosquitos at me (7) and my brother (5) and said "go to college boys." That stuck with me.
- IHatePants, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Wow, I'm really late on the draw responding here, as I was working this evening. I feel I am uniquely able to give some real advice on this topic as I recently lead up the re-engineering of a student financial aid system for a major university, and wrote many of the core parts of the system myself. Items for your consideration:
1) No university wants a student to get loans. Period. Loans are bad for students, and anything bad for students is bad for the university. There are national rankings that show the average student debt per university, and every person in the university's administration wants to stay as low on that list as possible. Even the government is on their side here.
2) As a result of #1, there are a few things that must happen before a student gets loans:
a) The student must undergo "loan entrance counseling", letting them know the impact of taking out loans.
b) The student must opt into the loans they are offered, with a few exceptions. Even once a loan has been accepted, the student has a chance to reject it at a later date.
Now, on to the good stuff. As having written the algorithms that disburse a few hundred million dollars a year for a university, I'm about to disclose the optimal things to do in order to get FREE money:
1) File your FAFSA as soon as possible. Federal regulations require schools to give out most funds based on the date your *initial* FAFSA was received. I know a lot of people hold off "because they don't have all the information on hand," such as tax information. The FAFSA allows you to file amended versions when you have that information. File based on estimates! Re-file when you have the official numbers! You can file 99 times a year, under the current system!
2) Don't check the "work-study" box on the FAFSA initially. Check it after you see what your financial aid package is going to be. The caveat here is that you shouldn't do this if you really think you will need work-study. If work-study is something you would be willing to do, but don't think you will need it, then wait until you see your financial aid package first, then re-file with the flag turned on. The reason is this: Once that flag is turned on, you can't turn it off again for that award year. If you know you are going to need work-study, though, then go ahead and check it. (Basically if you and your family have enough dough that you know you won't be getting grants.)
3) Almost all universities have an endowment foundation. A division of the university that aggregates scholarships and grants from alumni and other private entities. Usually when a student gets a merit grant or scholarship (e.g. a flutist via the college of music), it comes through this foundation. You can apply for scholarships and grants directly through this foundation, and that's FREE money, if you can get it.
4) If you are classified as a dependent of your parents, and if your parents are financially well-off (which the government sets a disturbingly low bar for), then see what you can do to become independent. I ran some numbers for a friend of mine who had no financial support from his family, and it turned out we would have had a free-ride through if he had been independent.
5) (This applies in Florida, at least, and this should probably be #1) If you are going to school out of state, then move there a semester or so early, before commencing with school. Out-of-state tuition is a killer. If you move to your target state as an individual, not as a student, and wait out the clock, then you can get in-state tuition which is usually about 1/4 the cost. Again, this rule and it's implications are valid in Florida, I'm not sure about other states.
6) If you feel that your financial aid package is unjust, TALK TO THE FINANCIAL AID ADMINISTRATORS!!! Financial aid is so complex on the institution side that no financial aid system can accommodate every situation. Sometimes your package is WRONG. Or, in some cases you have a situation that is outside the bounds of the regulations. (e.g. the package was based on your father's income, but he was laid off from work.) Financial aid administrators have a tool at their disposal called "professional judgment." They can look at a student's file and override almost any value on there, thereby getting the student a better package. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you don't get satisfaction the first time, keep going back. They will probably pay you to go away. (And this is speaking from experience.) Now, don't expect them to say you had 0 income when you personally made $1m last year. This is "professional judgment." They will apply some, hopefully, sound reasoning to get you some more grant or scholarship money if you deserve it.
Financial aid all comes down to (Cost of Attendance) - (Expected Family Contribution) = (Money you get). You will always get this amount in aid if you file for it. The real goal is to make it "good money," such as scholarships or grants. The best way to get this is to file your FAFSA as early as possible. - Pic0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Depends on the degree. Most teachers in my state get about $30k or so starting. If a teacher got her education and it cost her $150k total, she probably wouldn't pay it off for a while.
If most people with your degree make $20k starting salary and stay around that for 10 years, then getting an education at the price of $100k is probably not the best idea. - pilot3033, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Although you want to.
It's great to pursue your global dreams, how ever it seems this person did not get that in order to help others, you need to help yourself. - osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I am loving these comments on this thread, you can't help her if she decides to spend all that money on a degree that she is not sure will pay off the debt. Student is a very good investment, one of the best you'll ever make - just do some research upfront eh?
- teaguecl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Just because you were able to escape with no debt, doesn't mean everyone can. Tuition room and board at even public universities in the US can easily top $25K a year. Let's see how your 4 night a week job would stack up against that:
1 year = 52 weeks.
You work 4 nights a week, or 4*52 = 208 nights per year.
25,000 / 208 = $120.19 per night.
I am assuming you could not possibly work more than 5 hours a night (and still graduate), so you would need to find a job that pays $24.04 per hour. Oh, but 30% of your income goes to taxes, so you really need a job that pays $31.25 an hour. This is completely unreasonable.
It is no longer feasible to pay your own way through college if you want to go to most universities. It was much better 5 years ago when I was in school, and a much better 10 years ago, but now you just can't do it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10dclowd9901, you seem to equate college with future salary possibilities. This isn't always how it works. A good college helps to get you into more job interviews, but in the end your economic success will rely on other things, like an outgoing personality, good work ethic, a "go-getter" attitude, visible intelligence, and being able to network and get to know the right people, among numerous other factors.
- HeaDiggrNCharge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I got a B.S. (Mechanical Engineering) but i pursued me "dream" as a graphic artist... not making as much as an eng. but i tell ya im happy. Plus I went to an HBCU in my home town, lived with the folks, got scholarships etc. etc. So if you chose to get in debt up to your arse... so be it...
- sholdowa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'd just like to make 2 comments....
1. In Norway, there are companies who aim to capitalize on those who have extra income after paying off their student loans... in their 40's. This is thought of as normal.
2. Here in NZ, student loans are now tax free. But only if you stay in the country. Mind you, who needs any incentive to live in godzone (: - artemster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@neomis
"Who teaches that?"
Carl Marx does. - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Why should you pick something that you wouldn't enjoy just for the sake of money?"
Because we live in a cold capitalist economy. If you don't like it, I'm sure Europe will accept you.. Maybe France.. I hear their unemployment rate dropped down to 10% last week. I say that as someone who has lived in France and paid off $60k of US student debt if you include myself and my wife. And yes I'm under 30 and my parents are middle class, which meant I got little from my parents and the government.
The key was I got a degree in something that pays well, and I worked my butt off, still work my butt off, and I enjoy every second of it.. and I never complained for one second.
If I hear more whining I'm going to explode. - LordLucless, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5And doing things her way helps how?
There's no reason you need to have your university/college education straight out of school. If the degree you're doing will not enhance your job prospects, take a few years off, get a low-level job, save a bit of money, and then do your studies. That way you'll have some money to help you through, and with a bit more job experience on your resume, chances are you'll be able to get a better-paying job. Hell, you could keep your current job and do college courses part-time. - artemster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Like a ***** McDonalds commercial I'm loving it."
Now I am not sure whether you are knocking education or not, but I hope there is some middleground here. If everyone paid next to NOTHING for education, and was GUARATEED a job upon graduation, wouldn't 90% of the people major in video game testing and 10% in eating cheesecake? There has got to be some INCENTIVES to match SUPPLY and DEMAND for skilled workers.
If Anthropologists were in demand, I don't think there'd be a sob story posted about this. Alot of people whose passion is oil extraction technology are probably not crying about their debts. - SP33DFR34K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Really well said.
For me, it was all about sacrifices and a little luck. For me, I ended up in a not so prestigious University in California, but still good. At first, I thought I would have to take out a lot of money for loans (22K for UC), but after complaining a lot to the Financial Aid office, I eventually got a little more than half my tuition covered from grants and scholarships and only took out a little under 2500 in loans. On top of that, my workplace was covering up to 2K worth of my tuition and books, which is awesome. The only major cost of attending the University was not the tuition, but the 11K cost of dorming. So, next year, my cost of attending the university will be much lower and only have to take out a little bit in loans and be working in the summer to paid off some loans for some of my toys and hope to get a job tutoring (officially, since I was unofficially just helping people in my CS class out).
For me, it was being persistent (with the Financial Aid Office for grants and scholarships), knowing the programs out there (workplace covering some of my higher education cost), learning to compromise (sacrificing going to a more prestigious and more expensive university) and most importantly working hard! I know I'm more lucky than others here, but just keep going and don't give up, it will all be worth it! - tarmithius, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@theblooms
I live in Massachusetts
@shuffle
I paid my dues to get this education and if I sound like I am crowing, well think of this. I served my country, what have you done? On top of that I pay my state taxes which in a way helps to pay for this, so I am not just a basic freeloader that you seem to think. I served 6 years in the US Navy forward deployed in another country, I think I deserve this. I feel bad for her since she racked up her debt but read the article again and tell me it was not her own fault. - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Yet I made my choices based on the values I had been taught -- that helping others is more important than making money for yourself, meaningful career is more important than net worth, and brains, determination, and charisma are the key ingredients of success."
This was her mistake. She was raised incorrectly, was unprepared for the real world, and had to learn the truth the hard way. Tough luck, sister, but I'd blame your parents.
Personally, I made my choice of career based on what I was good at and enjoyed doing. I figured that if I couldn't be rich, I'd at least be happy. Now, since my forte is computers and general techno-geekery, I knew going in that I could afford to spend some cash, and so I did, to the tune of $36,000 in loans. Now, 6 years later, I only still owe about $4000. Luck? No, intelligence. I knew that I could afford the loans because I would be able to pay them off. If I didn't think I could have paid them off, I wouldn't have taken them. Why? Because I'm not an idiot.
People don't pay for idealism. She thought that idealism mattered in the real world. She was wrong. - artemster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@blackjack75
"It basically denies the value of anything that is not commercialisable and this is really sad."
, where commercializable = valuable?
Perhaps value should be determined using some kind of point system that people could trade in exchange for things they consider important or valuable. -
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