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155 Comments
- johndi, on 10/19/2007, -1/+46It is from a magazine that readily admits that they try to match current events to prove Biblical prophecies, but the sub-prime crisis is real. The facts seem to check out. Here are links to reputable papers to back it up. This is the Enron of banking, the dollar has plummeted compared to other currencies, and Moody's and Standard & Poor's are being investigated for rubber-stamping dicey bonds.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gA4I1pVbPT2BzD ... http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/opinion/edv ... http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/17/news/northe ... http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/05/news/economy/subpr ... - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -8/+42You do realize that this is from an Evangelical magazine. Not Falwell Evangelicals. "The World is Ending" Evangelicals.
- dukeeeey, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22The slashing of the interest rates will destroy the US dollar, and this will have serious economic consequences. Since the US has a massive balance of payments deficit, ie everything is imported, if the purchasing power of the us dollar declines, suddenly everything will get very expensive. There's no way out of this mess the bankers created.
- tlurie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19Not big on the source of the article, but it certainly sounds right from where I'm standing.
For those who think the subprime 'crisis' is over, here are the numbers... listed below, the dollar values for subprime mortgages due to 'reset'. Values are in billions. (so in January of 07, 22B in mortgages switched out of their adjustable rate, and so on)
jan 07 22
feb 07 25
mar 07 35
apr 37
may 36
june 42
july 43
aug 52
sep 58
oct 55
nov 52
dec 58
jan08 80
feb08 88
mar08 110
apr08 92
may08 76
Do we see where this is heading now? - izzybr, on 10/15/2007, -14/+32I'm pretty sure that 'the con that turned the world against america' was all this ***** the Bush administration made up about Iraq and how we were going to do whatever we wanted to do and the rest of the world could go ***** themselves
- Maarek, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17Right because guns are where power is held. As long as I have a gun it doesn't matter how weak willed and docile I've become right? As long as I have my gun it doesn't matter if the policies that I support bring me closer to Myanmar not further, cause you know when the ***** goes down, I'll have my gun. My gun will give me free will and thinking that I currently don't have.
Please.... most of these so called patriots with their guns would be the first to bow down (were the first perhaps?) to authority as long as authority offered them big macs and jobs. These people in Myanmar that are being beaten and rounded up, they are patriots on a level that practically no Americans have been for a long long time. Power and protection do not come from inanimate things like guns, they come from a willingness to do what it takes to achieve your goals. For the new authoritarian conservative movement that means worshiping authority rather than questioning it, because allegiance with the power is kind of like power right? It's better to be the guys swinging the billy clubs at the protesters than it is to be the protesters, right? - lOvOl, on 10/10/2007, -13/+27While most people in the world are ignorant about how America affects the global financial system, more and more people are wising up to the reality. Most of Asia still blames the United States for the Asian financial crisis of the 1990's that basically evaporated the middle class from South Korea to Indonesia. Once the credit was gone, the ***** hit the fan. I fear the same thing may happen to the United States but this time we are the debtor rather than the creditor.
I mean, what if there was a mad revolt against Washington by the former middle class who now has the kind of food insecurity that are common to poor people in third world nations. Would our so-called government "of the people", start killing off the undesirables in such a way that Mao Tse Tung would look like the tooth fairy?
You don't think the crap that is happening in Myanmar could happen in the United States? Well think again. - Doofy, on 10/10/2007, -11/+25"You don't think the crap that is happening in Myanmar could happen in the United States? Well think again."
No, Myanmar has gun control. Only the government has guns.
US Citizens have LOTS of guns, and they know how to use them. - tdelet, on 10/10/2007, -3/+17No, we should adopt the leaf as currency!
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15Thanks for your help johndi, the story looked like it was solid, especially with the whole subprime mess in lending for homeowners, I don't vet all my sources but I do have to protect my good name on Digg. But the story looks sound.
- johndi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Sorry about that. Digg keeps truncating links.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16Ooopppss...
My bad. - Waiting2awake, on 10/10/2007, -9/+21LMAO I know we saw all this stuff during Kartrina. Remember the battles between the government blackwater people and the citizens.... Wait - nope nothing happened because even jethro knows his rifle, ain't going to do ***** to the paramilitary forces of blackwater with all their funding...
It can, it will - and when it does, those that have claimed the right to bare arms will be just as *****. You concept of the brave American fighting off a bad government has been shown to be an illusion for the last 6 years now...
Just saying/ - johndi, on 10/19/2007, -1/+12http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/05/news/economy/subpr ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/17/news/northe ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/opinion/edv - KingCook, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12This + combination military industry complex
(it seems we keep finding spending bigg on military)
I just wonder what the outcome of this will be...
Maybe they will be taking defending corporate interrests to a new level ! (maybe I'm a bit late with this conclusion but hey I'm only 22 so I am just starting to learn to bend over ... getting ***** by government is still quite new for me) - MWeather, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Perhaps if you had actually heard of the gold standard before Ron Paul mentioned it, you wouldn't associate the two.
- johndi, on 10/19/2007, -0/+9And for the last stubborn one.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/opinion/edv ... - fossilnews, on 10/10/2007, -7/+15That's simply not true. As the dollar becomes cheaper it means that goods made in America (manufacturing) will pick up. Companies outsourcing some of their manufacturing will begin moving those operations - as warranted - back to our shores. It's just a reversal of the previous cycle of the strong dollar. During that previous cycle people screamed about how manufacturing was never to return and the economy would suffer. Sure there were some transition pains, but today we have a very healthy economy and very, very low unemployment.
It's all just a cycle. It's happened before and will happen again. There's no reason to believe that this time we're doomed. - fossilnews, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8All good points, but we can debate the intricacies to infinity and still not have an answer. For example: what about the price of labor in china? It's rising at a faster pace than ours. The cost of fuel to transport the goods across the pacific - it's rising as well due to the weak dollar. It goes on and on and the the specifics of each industry (heck, each business) is different - so their is no one unified answer as to whether it makes sense to begin manufacturing here again.
The point of my previous post was to simply dispel the idea that "there's no way out of this mess". One of the reasons the US economy does so well is not because we are the cheapest or have the strongest currency, it's because we are the most adaptive. Our economy absorbs things that (on a relative basis) would severely impair other countries. Sub prime loans are no different. - jdb252, on 10/10/2007, -10/+17I was wondering how someone was going to jam Ron Paul into this.
- Hetman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Brought to you by the people who retirement fund is the Apocalypse.
- Godlike, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9LOL and America doesn't have gun control? You have high-powered automatic weapons, mortars, RPG's, jeeps, trucks, tanks and helicopters with which to fight off a military?
- swaney3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Although I too am a little skeptical of the source I have seen groceries increase in price by at least 70% in the last year and with 5.00 per gallon milk and 3.00 per loaf bread everyone can feel the pressure. I suspect that our economy is being propped up by the war on terror and as it winds to an end so may our econmy.
- bubbadoo989, on 10/10/2007, -9/+15This article and most of the comments in this section are utterly *****! The article is based on false facts and while no one can deny the incompetence, dishonesty and duplicitiness of our current administration in Washington, SUB-PRIME MORTGAGES WERE NEVER SOLD AS SAFE INVESTMENTS.
Fixed income investors, the type who would invariably buy products with sub-prime components, understand credit quality and the associated credit enhancements that are used to package the mortgages. Investors flocked to these securities because the spread over treasury's is fat. It has to be because of the increased credit risk with sub-prime credit. Basically, the investor enjoys higher rewards for assuming higher risk.
Thus the tenet upon which this article is based, is faulty, making this article a waste of bandwidth.
The true problem with the sub-prime mortgages is the amount of fraud committed by unscrupulous mortgage bankers and prospective homeowners, some of whom should never have been granted any credit. But the fees and commissions to the bankers were very fat. Additionally, people blame the credit rating agencies for not issuing warnings and downgrades on these risky securities. But at the end of the day, the issuers were granted ratings based on credit enhancements and blends of credit quality. So, for example, some securities would have one or two sub-prime traunches, but they would be buoyed by a large conforming, prime mortgage truanche.
***** this article. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Bad things happen when untrustworthy people are trusted anyway.
- crunchyeyeball, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Yes, Blackwater were deployed in the aftermath of Katrina, and were involved in the shooting of civilians, who they claimed were "armed black gangbangers". That's what the right to bear arms gets you in the eyes of Blackwater: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill
- HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Even for gold bug articles, this one is insipid.
Go read the Economist, nutjobs. It covers the US collaterized securities (or as they call it, "securitisation") problems and how the rest of the world sees it a lot better than this article.
And the record, the level of liquidity available in this market under this credit crunch is still FAR FAR higher than what would be available under a gold-based system. If you want to see what a real lack of access to credit will do, go to a gold-based system. Only those already sitting on a large pile of gold can issue any loans, and if they've issued all the ones they are eligible to, the markets are ***** out of luck, no matter what the need for credit is.
International backlash to the US mortgage-backed securities problem is not "rising". Nicolas Sarkozy (mentioned in the article as very concerned) will almost certainly move France closer to the US system of mortgage finance during his period in office. Yes, there will be more regulations to avoid the problems with the "laundering" of poor-quality debt, but nothing like this return a system like the gold standard.
It's simple, just think of it this way:
The current credit crunch is because entities are holding on to more of their assets instead of making loans against them. This is reducing the availability of capital (and money supply), especially when the knock-on effect is considered (money not loaned is also not re-loaned). In essence, the increase of money in the system from fractional banking is going down right now. Instead of there being 9X as much money on loan as there are assets to back them, there is only 8X.
Under a gold-based system, this would drop to a fixed 1X. This would obviously create a credit crunch FAR larger than we are having right now. - testcase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6The article is correct; around the world, a large number of financial institutions have gone down because of this swindle - including 8 major finance companies in New Zealand. Thousands of major investors have now sworn off US investments forever because of this.
This investment money doesn't just disappear - it goes elsewhere. All around the world now, the same thing has happened in other countries, and American financial products are now seen as tainted. The money (or should I say "value") is being stripped out of America and shipped wholesale to the rest of the world, as fast as possible, before it's too late.
I call this the Rape of America, because for years now, America has been robbed blind by a few thousand financial geniuses who've been hell bent on asset stripping the United States to the bone. It's a big job, but they've nearly accomplished it. They've fled with their gold certs and cashed in their options, and they can now afford to live as tax exiles in Switzerland.
But you my friend, as you sit there staring at your computer screen, you are going to catch it in the neck when the global economy rules against the American financial system. You've been kept doped up on cheap consumer crap from China the entire time, and you gotta admit, you never saw it coming.
Good luck. - amsterdamordeth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5thanks for your effort
- Hetman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I agree. The evangelist are the biggest asses in the world. Not only do they want the fall of america but they want the fall of the entire world. Thats a good goal /sarcasm. They do not even take into account that the prophecy of Jesus comming back was supposed to happen in the time of the apostles. Guess what it didnt and it isnt every going to happen.
- farther, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7And then they would have one more reason to shoot you. And throw grenades in your house to flush you out.
- hode, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5You sir, are wrong:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e ... - Godlike, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10Not even... spewing the same impossibility does not make you correct when it finally comes to pass, it just means you talk alot.
- gak001, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Congratulations, you only read half of the chapter on Net Exports and Currency Exchange Rates in your Principles of Macroeconomics textbook. Perhaps you should read the other half before you make yourself look like an asshat again in front of people who actually know what they're talking about.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Yes, the economy has been artificially supported by the "war on terror", also by the "war on drugs" which has been a pretext for the government to have an excuse for having it's hands in drugs. In reality, the CIA is distrubuting drugs to support the economy. One cannot fight or win a war on a concept. All wars are wars on people, wars on humanity.
- isellmacs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Anybody who thinks the crisis is over is in for a rude awakening: We are just feeling the initial tremors right now, it's going to get much worse. I deal with mortgage fraud all day long (it's my job) and what i'm seeing is FAR worse and more widespread than the media is reporting.
I'm pretty sure they are just trying to keep things calm and people from panicking and making the situation worse, but that doesn't change the very likely outcome as foreclosures on fraudulently obtained properties sweep across like wildfire burning people into bankruptcy.
We haven't even really seen the Alt-A sweep yet, and even A-paper borrowers are starting to struggle as our economy and employment starts tanking. - joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5... that would be you
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Tell it!
- isellmacs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Just a note: They track unemployment by people who are claiming unemployment benefits, which only last a couple months. After that, those people are considered 100% employed as far as survey statistics go, even though many are still unemployed.
I'm honestly not sure what it's like in other parts of the country, but right now in California there is a fairly scary amount of unemployment; when you have a multitude of highly skilled and experienced system/network administrators all competing for that $10-12/hr data entry job (as my assistant) it makes me strongly question the "very low unemployment" that is often quoted. These are people that by their own admission long since ran out of unemployment benefits and are extremely desperate to find ANY job above fast food. - gak001, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4You're talking in absolutes. Of course labor costs in the US aren't going to drop below the Chinese, or really the majority of the world. But there are other financial incentives to bring production back to your home country during a recessionary period and we're only talking about relative decreases in the cost of production.
- RealmDown, on 10/10/2007, -8/+12Not to worry. Even a broken religion is right twice an eon.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Thesis:
"The world’s economic system is built on trust. Money is no longer backed with tangible assets. The only thing giving that Jackson in your wallet purchasing power is the perception that it will be able to buy a similar batch of goods tomorrow as it can today. But here is the catch. There is no standard that determines what a dollar is worth—ultimately it’s all relative. Its value could disappear overnight."
Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the Euro seems like a much more stable because a currency because it is shared by multiple countries, and therefore cannot be manipulated by one central bank.
And by the way, anyone investing in the Shanghai Market Index is making 50% APR. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No, people won't take their time to learn how the system works. Most Americans think the Federal Reserve is a federal agency. It is not. It's a privately-owned cartel owned by the wealthiest Europeans which was used to rob America of all the gold in the now empty Fort Knox.
Even if the American populace should learn of the ugly truth, just what would they do about it? March peacefully? Sure, a lot of good that'll do. Of course the governmedia knows the truth about this but what are their choices? Suffer with the poor and starve, join the scheme and grow wealthy or fight the scheme and get shot. Well, it's clear what they're going to do. - darkcooger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5@farther: At least if they killed you, you wouldn't be living under tyranny. I think that's the whole point of being willing to die for what you believe in.
- Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4as opposed to say, $100 = 1 can of beans
- Fordi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The gold standard failed as a result of the federal reserve. Without the fed, the value of a commodity-backed dollar doesn't fall to the point where the supply of commodities chokes the economy.
- therightside, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7Except all of our gold would have been shipped out of our country long ago. Brilliant!!!
- janrito, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3He probably pulled it right out of his ass, just as everything else in that book of prophecies, so you're even.
- RealmDown, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Your confirmation is appreciated, thank you.
- maclauk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It may be an evangelical magazine, but I don't see that background spilling into this article. This is one of the most clearly stated analysis of the crisis that I have seen anywhere and it deserves to be digged up because of it. The crisis of confidence may be wider than US financial products. The Northern Rock chaos got as bad as it did because UK customers did not trust British financial services and initial government reassurances. As Bremner, Bird and Fortune said (roughly), if you can't trust them on the reasons for going to war, why should you trust them that your life savings are safe.
Good article, despite the publication. -
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