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How the Credit Card Industry Makes You Their Slave watch!

pbs.org — In "Secret History of the Credit Card," Frontline and The New York Times join forces to investigate an industry few Americans fully understand. In this one-hour report, correspondent Lowell Bergman uncovers the techniques used by the industry to earn record profits and get consumers to take on more debt.

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  • pleeker, on 02/22/2008, -17/+90In the past year, we've gotten rid of 7 credit cards. Still have a couple to go, and then it's all cash and debit cards. Consumers need to take responsibility for their buying habits, but credit card companies are nothing short of evil.
    • RealmDown, on 02/22/2008, -10/+44Excellent work, keep striving. Down to 1 here.

      Speaking of evil, lets not forget the current ad campaign that shows anyone spending cash or writing check is "holding up everyone else." Criminal indeed.
      • robbob, on 02/22/2008, -6/+26That's a debit card promo (same as cash)
        I cringe when I see someone pull out a check book.
        I just want to say, "Hey lady, WTF?"
        • Napoleone, on 02/22/2008, -4/+11It's not the same as cash. Every time you use your debit card the merchant is charged 25-50 cents, by VISA. That cost is transfered to buyers through increased prices and is also likely transfered to employees through diminished wages.

          Just stay away from plastic.
      • form3hide, on 02/22/2008, -3/+4still have two more to go... man, i've never been so excited in my life...
      • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -7/+29People who write checks should be beaten with sticks. /sarcasm-with-hint-of-truth

        Also, most places around here don't take checks anymore, period. WAY too much fraud, it's not worth it at all.

        I have nothing against cash, but seriously, use a damn card and learn some self-control. I mean, what is wrong with people when they have to actually "get rid of" their credit cards? Can't they simply not use them? Or pay them off every month? Are they that weak willed that they have to forcibly limit themselves from spending money by taking away the means to spend it? Really? I find that rather sad, actually.
        • imikedaman, on 02/22/2008, -2/+6"what is wrong with people when they have to actually "get rid of" their credit cards? Can't they simply not use them?"

          What's the point of keeping your credit card around if you don't plan on using it again? Getting rid of it is just the logical thing to do in that situation.
          • offwithyourtv, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5Because the longer you keep a credit account open and in good standing, even if it is an unused account, the higher your credit score can be. A good credit score is quite helpful when you're trying to make a major purchase like a house. I suppose you could physically get rid of the card if there's no use for it, as long as you keep the account open. I still think it would be a good idea to have one for emergencies if nothing else.
          • willfe, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1offwithyourtv: There is a concept of "too much available credit" that can hurt your credit score. Having too many open accounts, with no balance, means you could suddenly "overextend" yourself with a large purchase (besides a house). The most common suggestion these days is to keep only your oldest, "in-good-standing" account open at a zero balance. Leaving more than one account open like that drops your score. It doesn't help it.
        • nyx210, on 02/22/2008, -2/+6The credit card industry absolutely *HATE* people who either don't use their cards or pay them off every month. I'd bet that they'll change the terms of their contract so that they can bill you for "unused activity" or some other stupid *****. Having these credit cards are just dangerous. If borrowing money will place you in a dangerous financial situation, then don't borrow.
          • Hamletlere, on 02/22/2008, -0/+7Nope. Because as soon as they do that to me (I'm one of those people who pay them off every month), I cancel the card. They can only really screw with people who owe them money, and can't pay it off.

            As a customer using the card, they get 3-6% of the purchase price of everything I buy. If I don't use their card, they get nothing. Which do you think they'd prefer?
      • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -2/+6I would get rid of some of my extra cards, but I heard that by reducing my revolving credit line (which cancelling cards would do), I would be reducing my FICO score (which is quite high right now, which is how I want to keep it). So I guess if anyone else has those worries, just lock those credit cards you aren't using away.
        • cawpin, on 02/22/2008, -2/+1That's true to a point. You can have too much available credit, which also hurts your score. They goal is using and repaying 1/3 to 1/2 of your credit on a regular basis with regards to credit cards.
          • nmathew, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3No, you can't really have too much available credit. People carry 100K + on in 0% balance transfers over on the Fatwallet finance page without issue. You certainly don't need to cycle 1/3 of your credit limit every month either.
      • raynar, on 02/22/2008, -2/+12No read to read article, here's the breakdown:
        -You sign an agreement for a card saying if you're delinquent then you'll pay big interest
        -You're delinquent
        -You pay
        -You bitch
      • ch33sehead, on 02/22/2008, -0/+5A lot of retail places now have a check scanner, where it'll just take the check, scan the number, and use it as an EFT (electronic funds transfer) and debit the money out of your account.
        • raynar, on 02/26/2008, -0/+1Most of them dont post directly to your account though, they still take a few days as if you wrote a check.
    • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -11/+138Nonsense. Don't blame the cards for your own inability to stop using them.

      I have 5 credit cards and no outstanding debt on any of them. It's called self-control and knowledge of your financial situation.
      • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -18/+14"Don't blame the cards for your own inability to stop using them."
        Ever heard of the phrase "Sh*t happens"? Medical costs and extended absence from work due to a medical problem are the two biggest reasons why people go into debt...and, not surprisingly, why people go into bankruptcy.
        • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -15/+7Okay, so you'd rather people die than go into debt? Seems a bit callous of you.
          • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -3/+12Where did I say that? I was replying to the above comment, who said that self-control of one's credit is what would keep people from going into debt. All I said was that contrary to his opinion, sh*t can and does happen, putting people into a debt spiral.
          • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -6/+3@DevillnPgh: You just said it right there! I quote you: "Medical costs and extended absence from work due to a medical problem".

            So, if people did not have credit, then they could not go into debt, and they'd die or receive substandard card. That's basically what you're saying when you complain about people going into debt due to medical expenses.

            Also "debt spiral" is *****. No such thing exists. It's a consequence of lack of self-control. If you're in debt, then you stop spending money. You move out of the expensive house and into a smaller one. You do what it takes. If it "spirals" then that means you were living too close to hand-to-mouth to begin with and failed to take appropriate measures when your payments exceeded your income.
        • ExSlashdotter, on 02/22/2008, -2/+21Not necessarily true. Most consumer credit card debt is just consumer debt. Just buying stuff you don't really need. Sure, there's people who use the credit card in a bind and get into trouble, but most people that just carry revolving debt are just consumers with no self-control, and no reason to make themselves stop.
        • DrMonkeyLove, on 02/22/2008, -4/+21And people's medical problems are the credit card company's problem how exactly? Should lenders give 0% interest loans to everyone with a medical condition?
      • DrMonkeyLove, on 02/22/2008, -6/+46Yeah, seriously. Boohoo for everyone who doesn't understand what interest is. If you can't control your spending, it's not the credit card company's fault. It's not like dealing with your personal finances is hard. There's no calculus involved. Just some adding and subtracting, maybe a little multiplication. I'm so tired of this "blame everyone but me" attitude that people have every time they get in trouble. If you're buried in credit card debt, it's your fault, and no one else's.
      • mtwolf, on 02/22/2008, -2/+14I would contest this argument. This is why some people go into debt and bankruptcy, not a majority though. I would argue that a majority are people who are living beyond their own means.
      • KraftDinner101, on 02/22/2008, -2/+8I'm with ya on this one. I have no remorse for people with 1,000 cards and all are in the red. I have quite a few myself and haven't been in debt for years. I enjoy the luxury of using my card for purchases, paying it off at once online, and reaping the benefits of my reward miles which i use to go see my mom in British Columbia. Without it, I wouldn't be able to visit her as much.
        • raynar, on 02/22/2008, -6/+1You should go visit more often, she's worth the time.
        • MrSidnet, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1Visit her more often. I live in BC, and it's great here! (well, not the town I live in..but everywhere else is..)
      • cam0man, on 02/22/2008, -3/+31agreed. I've supported this view in every digg submission on the topic....you have nobody to blame but yourself if you rack up credit card debt. I have 5 cards as well, each with it's own unique purpose and each one paying me money each year. I have an Amex card that's giving me not only cash back, but amazing buyer protection, extended warranties, theft protection, and even used to allow for pricematches. Credit cards are an amazing tool, the only problem is that they give the user too much responsibility.

        The bottom line is that Americans can't control themselves. Whether you're given a credit line of $15,000 and can't hold back, or if you're given a dollar menu at McDonald's - over indulgence is bad no matter what. I don't see how people can rack up so much debt w/ credit cards. It seems pretty simple, if I can only afford to spend $150 a week or extra expenses, I can only afford to spend $150 a week - either in cash or on my credit card.

        CC companies aren't evil, they're just not your babysitter or your mother. If you ***** up and get in over your head, that's your own fault, you agreed to all the terms. There's no surprises, you read that document that came with your card, right? Spend what you have and enjoy all the perks that a CC gives you. If you started writing a lot of IOU's, who would be evil then? the pencil and paper?

        The fact is that CC companies know that they don't have a lock on you. You can always apply for a 0% 12m program on a new card and transfer your balance, most CC companies know this and will even lower your interest if you just call a few times......
        • CiXeL, on 02/22/2008, -6/+3lets take into account all the people who had to accept jobs at lower pay after the late 1990s and have been through various periods of unemployment since then as companies merged and laid off workers or moved jobs to india.
          • CiXeL, on 02/22/2008, -4/+5yes because people get in debt only from stupid wasteful purchases.
            be realistic, why the hell are you digging me down?
          • kewidogg, on 02/22/2008, -3/+4because you're retarded, thats why
        • LupeFiasco, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1How does someone get a card like you Amex card? I just got my first credit card the other day so I am new to this.
          You gotta build your way up?Decent income etc...?
      • hydrodev, on 02/22/2008, -5/+3i have noticed though that they will tack on fees that in certain cases push you over the limit, then give you a generous over the limit fee to top it off. Which at that point becomes a never ending cycle. That is evil. But I do agree with you, everyone love to point externally about their problems.
      • crapmatic, on 02/22/2008, -4/+7Can I join in on the personal responsibility masturbation session?
    • SgtBulldog, on 02/22/2008, -6/+11Congrats. Once all those credit cards are gone, your credit rating will plummet hundreds of points and you'll never be able to get a mortgage or any other kind of loan with a decent interest rate! Good job!
      • FLLawLibrarian, on 02/22/2008, -4/+5Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. Credit cards are evil, yes, but a necessary evil. Just try to spend wisely and it will pay off long-term.
        • Chompy, on 02/22/2008, -0/+7Credit cards are not evil, they are a tool.
      • ScottMitchell, on 02/22/2008, -2/+4Maybe if you go to a mortgage broker that bases the decision solely on your FICO score. There are still mortgage underwriters that do manual underwriting and look at things like your assets, if you pay your obligations on time (utilities, rent check, etc.), your income via 1040 forms, etc.
        • SPRFRKR, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Just got a mortgage recently and apparently, all new loans have to go through the full disclosure process using FICO, bank statements, W-2, pay stubs, etc. due to the recent mortgage crisis I would assume.
      • chuckDontSurf, on 02/22/2008, -1/+6That's ridiculous. Even if you close all of them at once, your credit will take a temporary hit, but that's about it. Not paying bills or paying bills late does far worse damage to your credit than reducing the amount of credit you have available.
        • SgtBulldog, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1If you have NO credit, you will have NO credit history. It will be like you were 18 and just starting out again. Do your research and avoid knee-jerk reactions that can hurt you big-time in the long run.

          http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/ask/archive/2007/ ...
          • chuckDontSurf, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2Right, because credit cards are the only thing that affect your credit score positively. Read and learn, jackass:
            http://tinyurl.com/2fk7tu
          • SgtBulldog, on 02/22/2008, -2/+1Read your own damn article - "The length of time you've been building credit. The longer your credit history, the higher your credit rating."

            There's a reason why it's called a CREDIT score. You build it by maintaining CREDIT accounts.

            But hey, it's your life and your credit rating. Go ahead and close all you credit accounts and see what happens when you try and apply for a mortgage.
      • digggggggggg, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3Your credit depends on whether or not you pay your bills. It doesn't have to do with how much you pay off.

        Buy something that costs $3.99 every month on every one of those cards and pay that off every month. That's a way to build credit.

        I found this out after I figured out that paying the bill for a credit card I almost never used actually did more for my credit rating than paying off tens of thousands of dollars worth of student loans.
      • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -1/+3Are you insane?

        I'm down to 2 cards that I keep paid off every month, have a home mortgage and car loan, and I have an very high FICO. You don't need a dozen cards to have a good credit score. You need a long credit history (mine's close to 20 years now) with no adverse reports on it. You don't go down "hundreds of points" for getting rid of most of your credit cards, assuming you have credit of some sort to demonstrate responsibility on.
        • SgtBulldog, on 02/23/2008, -1/+2Did you not read the person's comment? Pleeker wants to get rid of ALL his/her cards. That will completely erase all of the credit history completely.
          • diulei, on 02/23/2008, -0/+2Credit is more than just credit cards. Auto loans, rent, employment, etc. all factor int.
    • diulei, on 02/22/2008, -3/+16While credit cards become a bad habit - it's your own damn bad habit. I have 3 credit cards - my WaMu one gives me free credit score updates, one I have to take care of re-curring bills and bill pay, and one is for gas and groceries because I get 5% back on those. I always pay off the card on time because I never spend more than I have.
      If you overspend, that's your own fault. Credit card companies are a business like anything else - they need to make money. Don't blame them for your bad decisions. If you need the convenience, use a debit card instead.
      Blaming credit card companies for your woes is akin to blaming McDonald's for making your ass fat.
      • ch33sehead, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2I thought I was the only one w/ the WaMu card just for the free credit score.
        • diulei, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Yea, I don't know anyone else personally with it just for the credit score either. Although, I do make a purchase every 2 months or so on it just to keep the account active.
    • Chompy, on 02/22/2008, -2/+7I hate to tell you this, but exclusively using your debit card isn't going to protect from yourself, either. Most banks will gleefully give you a "loan" if you overdraw with a debit card. Guess what happens then.
      • Kraize, on 02/22/2008, -3/+1"I hate to tell you this, but exclusively using your debit card isn't going to protect from yourself, either."

        Your right. You actually have to be smart and know your balance before making a purchase.
      • Mothrog, on 02/22/2008, -7/+2Guess maybe you shouldn't be a ***** and actually track what you spend and what you have.
        • Chompy, on 02/23/2008, -0/+4If you're smart enough to do that, then perhaps you'd also be smart enough to use a credit card and pay the balance each month.
    • 0xbaadf00d, on 02/22/2008, -4/+2If you don't use a credit card you are paying a few percent more for everything you buy, depending on the card.
      • TheMachine1, on 02/23/2008, -2/+0Unless the retailer has a sign that says "all prices reflect a cash discount". In which case credit card users pay the few percent surcharges. And any way most those surcharges line the credit card industry's pockets.
    • arcangelgabriel, on 02/22/2008, -3/+5Credit union, no credit cards, debit card only, no overdraft. If it ain't there, you don't spend it. Simple enough.
    • gadgetuk, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3Aint it grand? I just just cleared two that were astronomical at one point. Although the debt was entirely my own greedy fault, damn, I wanted to chop them up into sharp little pieces and cram it up the ass of the fatcats who've been making money for nothing from me for the last five years. Seriously, it may be harder to make their system work for you, but it's so worth it.
    • alex1432, on 02/22/2008, -0/+5If no one takes loans from their credit card companies how am I going to earn cash back and airline miles?
    • shadash, on 02/22/2008, -3/+3I don't have any credit cards. I don't believe in them. I buy my cars in cash and have money in the bank. The only time I've experienced a problem is trying to get a home loan. They say I don't have enough credit to get a good loan . Even though my salary is very high...

      Oh well I'll just have to buy my house with cash in after the bubble pops.
      • ArmandoM, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4It's a lot easier to not believe in carrying a balance, and be able to get a home loan when you need it.
      • diulei, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3Well, I guess you'll just have to pay for the house with a suitcase full of cash.
      • halfdirt, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1How dare you not have a credit card! I mean, good for you.
    • tcip, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2If you can use a debit card you can use a credit card. As several others have mentioned you just pay off your credit card balance at the end of every month. In theory at least that is what a debit card does, if you don't have the money in your account then you don't buy anything.

      My personal rule for the past 30 years has been: If you don't have the money to make the purchase then never use your credit card to make the purchase; if you do have the money and the purchase is routine (groceries, gas etc.) or you saved up for the purchase then never pay with a check or cash use your credit card. That way you get about 30 days of free money from the credit card company and you pay no usurious interest expense. I have done this since I got my first credit card. I believe it has actually improved my credit score. I charge $35,000 plus every year and always pay off the balance every month.
    • TechCF, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Debit cards are the way to go in a bank without fees (yes we have loads of them in Norway, only loans cost money here in good banks).

      I have one credit card just in backup in case my debit card gets demagnetized or broken. Never used it.
    • 501337, on 02/22/2008, -1/+4If I don't have that iPod, I'm not cool
    • PathDaemon, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3Comment abuse for direct link:
      http://pbs.wmod.llnwd.net/a1863/e1/general/windows ...

      Replace the 1 near the end (the part hidden by Digg) with 1-5 for each chapter.

      Windows Media and Real? what wonderful choices of formats.
    • BESTenemy, on 02/23/2008, -0/+3The credit card companies understand and respect the power of the contract. Regardless of how predatory their tactics are, they are acting in accordance to what is outlined in the agreement that you accept when you sign up for a credit card. Having difficulty in understanding the fine print is no excuse for getting into an agreement anyway and then complaining about it later.

      Serving customers? Respecting them? That's *****! The business is in making money. Of all the people we tend to mistake for our parents, big banks or credit card companies are nowhere close to our moral guardians. They're the wolves. If you deal with them - get used to being the sheep and watch your own ass.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1I've never even had a credit card.
      I only have 1 debit card.
      I only owe money for my student loans.
      My only other loan (my car) is paid off.

      I will probably need another loan when I try to buy a house, but with the way things look in the housing market that won't be until 2011 or something. By then I will have saved a lot of money for a decent size down payment.
  • danitygo, on 02/22/2008, -8/+11sooo true it's scary.
    • Waterrat, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2 This has been shown twice on our local PBS station.
      I have one credit card and never put more than $100.00 on it a month and always pay the whole balence off the same week I get the bill.
      I know they must hate me,but I really don't care.
    • imapluralist, on 02/24/2008, -0/+1What's scary is the payday loan places nowadays. They essential use a check as a loan, usurping federal requirements of disclosing interest rates and finance charges in regulation Z also ignoring usury laws in many states. They've even reinvented debtors prisons because when you knowingly write a bogus check (which many of them make you do) you're subject to criminal penalties. This means if you don't pay them back they can report you for writing the bad check and you can end up in jail. There are also more payday loan places than fast food joints in many places.
  • NeoRicen, on 02/22/2008, -20/+49Then don't get a ***** credit card. Spend your own damn money,
    • jeremyduffy, on 02/22/2008, -20/+17Brilliant insight there. Let's apply it to other things: Stop eating so much you fatty! Stop getting robbed by con artists you old people! Stop buying toys with lead in them stupid parents! Stop driving if you don't like the gas prices! Etc.
      • cawpin, on 02/22/2008, -3/+12Are you serious? You're comparing somebody getting conned to somebody applying for a credit card and then spending more money than they have. You are the prime target of the comment you replied to.
        • jeremyduffy, on 02/25/2008, -0/+1All I'm saying is that while it's obvious, it's not that easy.
      • Digger1218, on 02/22/2008, -7/+1Only idiots get conned, spend money they don't have, eat to obesity etc. If you don't like the price of gas, take a bus or carpool. All perfectly reasonable to anyone who has ever lived on their own or paid their bills..

        Lead in toys is something that is impossible to detect without a lab.
    • Huangism, on 02/22/2008, -2/+3not getting a card is kind of dumb, since credit card is a great way to build your credit rating. I like to see you finance a house without a credit rating. people just need stop being stupid and pay off the card each month so they don't get any interests built up.
    • SilentSpyder, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3Amen, I never had a credit card and don't plan on ever getting one. My student loand debts are bad enough.
    • staxofmax, on 02/22/2008, -1/+4Believe it or not, you're going to need a loan at some point, whether it's for a house, a car, medical bills, starting a business, whatever. Good luck getting one without credit history.
      • mcm020, on 02/23/2008, -1/+2Get someone to cosign.
      • halfdirt, on 02/23/2008, -0/+2Thank you for the wish of luck! I hope for some good luck for you too!
        I get a kick out of people acting as if it is impossible to live without a credit card.
    • Myztry, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Doesn't always work. The National Australia Bank got me when I made a purchase using my debit card. My previous bank declined such transactions and since I'm careful with limits it took over a year before I got caught in this situation.
      Instead of merely declining the transaction, they allowed it, then charge me AU$30 overdraw fee, and switched to overdraft rates. To add insult to injury, my pay had already been sent by my employer, NAB to NAB, except inexplicably doesn't get credit till the following day. The debit card doesn't even go through the credit network like some which require signatures but draw from your own money.
      This obvious trap was never disclosed in any obvious manner, though no doubt it is disclosed somewhere in the small print. It's a scam none the less. I did get them to refund the charge after spending about an hour on the phone. A mere 17 days later the money was returned.
    • method3, on 02/23/2008, -0/+2As many people have pointed out already, this is not something many people will be able to avoid. Obviously if you're able to go your entire life without a credit card, well done and good luck. On the other hand if you'd like to borrow money EVER in your lifetime, chances are you're going to need a way to build credit in the first place (oh Catch-22, how true you've been).
  • siszam, on 02/22/2008, -10/+59The borrower is slave to the lender. The Bible says that debt is a curse.
    • RealmDown, on 02/22/2008, -3/+23Neither a borrower nor lender be.

      Good advice in any religion.
      • Pittance, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Nah, do what every investor does. Lend. You can make huge profits through knowledgable lending in diversified markets.
        • Arch83, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1I concur. Financial assets should be properly managed. Lending your largess to those in need helps both parties, so long as both understand the terms of repayment. Without student loans, I would not be $70,000 in debt, but I would also not be about to graduate from college.

          Or, you can stuff your money in a shoebox and see for yourself what inflation does to it.
        • thegreatgazoo, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1Investing =/= lending. Investing involves ownership of an asset. Lending involves creating debt.

      • DogBotherer, on 02/22/2008, -0/+8Isn't that Shakespeare?
      • capainter, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2It is shakespeare, good call.

        However I think its horrible advice. There are many situations where it is extremely smart to be a borrower and/or a lender.
      • bobbybobington, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2Investing != gambling
      • ThickGreenPuke, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3Not in Judaism. According to Jewish religion, it is o.k. to charge a gentile with high interest rates. That is the only religion which condones interest on money you lend. They would charge upto 40% interest in medieval times
    • sunkist22, on 02/22/2008, -15/+9Well, you better go tell every single person in the US and Canada that has a mortgage that they are sinning, and are going to hell... oh wait, i saw a comment you made once about your own mortgage... you borrowed! you sinner!
      • IAmLegend24, on 02/22/2008, -4/+12It does not mean your a sinner it means your cursed to be the lenders slave.
      • DogBotherer, on 02/22/2008, -3/+1And that lenders at interest are evil, if I recall correctly...?
      • siszam, on 02/23/2008, -2/+1Sunkist, you may have read that I am debt free and that I believe in paying cash for a house. I don't think a mortgage is a sin or that debt is a salvation issue. I believe we are called to do good with our money. You can do more good if you pay cash for what you need and do without things that you can't afford. It's one thing to get a mortgage but it's another to go into debt for cars, credit cards, things that you can save for. Many times debt is a symptom of character issues. I've known people who let their lives be ruined by debt but I've never met someone who was debt free and regretted it. Never.
        • sunkist22, on 02/25/2008, -0/+2And religion is the solution? Please, You are one massive hypocrite. All I see you do is preach hatred and anger against people who might not think like you. If you dont want the actions of a few religious nuts to color people's view of religion, then stop using the actions of a few outspoken athiests to color your view. If you wont practice what you rant on about, then you are no better.
    • masonreloaded, on 02/22/2008, -10/+3The bible also says that the world was created in 6 days, but nobody takes that stuff literally do they?
      • evilesttoast, on 02/22/2008, -3/+1There are a some Christians that believe in the 6 day thing, but most understand it to be really more of a poem.
      • siszam, on 02/23/2008, -1/+2It's truth but there is debate on how long a day is to God. I've heard many many different opinions on that. I do believe Gods word. I could ask the "nobody takes that stuff literally do they" question about the Big Bang. It's really silly and there are scientists who don't believe it. In fact, a lot of scientists are Christians.
    • RazDakarn, on 02/22/2008, -2/+0So when a Central Bank loans all its money at interest to the Government, who's the slave and who's the master?
    • Spektr4, on 02/23/2008, -1/+2Except when the borrower has borrowed a real lot of money. Then the lender is a slave to the borrower.
  • crazybugger, on 02/22/2008, -13/+26Probably my best decision in life, not to have a credit card. Unfortunately, Credit cards are considered a status symbol in our idiotic society!
    • knde, on 02/22/2008, -6/+12Going on 24 and I've never had a credit card. I just don't see why I would need to get one.

      Living in the UK with my health emergencies covered + out of University with no loans to pay off + well paying job + having a budget which I actually stick to = no need for credit cards.

      I could be wrong and not accounting for other scenarios, but if you have health insurance, no loans to pay off, and moderate debt, you really shouldn't need a credit card. And if you do have one - it should be an "Emergency Credit Card."
      • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -3/+19Sticking to a budget has nothing to do with whether or not you use a credit card. I stick to a budget and charge virtually everything to a credit card. It actually makes organizing purchases and sticking to my budget simpler.

        It even makes me more money, since my own money sits in interest earning accounts longer while I spend the credit card companies money interest-free.
      • Randinn, on 02/22/2008, -4/+4I'm one up on you, going on 39 without a credit card, I own everything outright and no debts...
        • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -1/+8You mean you never had to take on a mortgage upon buying a house?
        • cawpin, on 02/22/2008, -1/+5"I own everything in this basement outright and no debts"

          As Otto said, there's nothing wrong with using a credit card. The problem comes from not knowing when to STOP using a credit card.
      • nutmac, on 02/22/2008, -1/+11There are many reasons to get a credit card. Just pay the entire balance when its due and you won't have any problems. Credit card is often necessary for online purchases. It helps your credit rating. You can get rewards such as cash back rebate or frequent flyer miles. Many comes with fraud and theft protections, and it can be used to get money back or replacement. Many comes with insurance (not just health but against accidents). In some countries, purchases made with credit card are tax deductible. It frees your wallet from carrying ton of cash. It can be easier to balance your book using credit card statements.
        • knde, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1I haven't carried cash around in ages...always use a debit card.

          To each his own :-) I just like NOT having a credit card.
          • Zipko, on 02/22/2008, -0/+5One thing I recently read that scares the ***** out of me is that debit cards don't have the same laws in place for fraud protection as credit cards do. Don't know how it is in the UK, but in the states if your debit card gets stolen you have a much shorter period of time (2 days I think) to get your money back on charges. After that the bank isn't obligated to cover your losses the way a credit card company is. I forget the details but I think the length of time you have to dispute a charge is measured in months with credit cards while a debit card is in days.

            Of course, this risk doesn't just apply to losing the actual card. The scam I read about in this article was that people were stealing card numbers when they took your card to charge it. Consider that anytime a waiter takes your card back to the register they can write down your number. That scam becomes much more effective against a debit card where it might not be noticed until you get your monthly statement. By then it's too late.

            I still use my debit card for everything, but I'm considering looking for a good rewards card to use both for the points and security. Then just paying off the balance every month.
    • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -2/+17I can tell you why I have a credit card: reward points. Flying home a few times a year can get a little costly, so I want to be able to derive benefit and get a free round-trip (probably home) on the credit card's dime. G-d bless Citi PremierPass.
      • spyrochaete, on 02/22/2008, -7/+3Reward points are evil. They're just a means of a company tracking where you spend your money and time, and they don't keep that information secret. If you use point cards you are voluntarily surrendering your consumer profile to countless third parties.
        • DevilInPgh, on 02/22/2008, -1/+9And regular credit cards don't?
          • spyrochaete, on 02/22/2008, -2/+3Touché, but I try to keep my corporate stalkers to a minimum.
      • k0k1man, on 03/13/2008, -0/+0The most important is to be aware of the rules, never let the debt grow and keep paying it on time. There are ways to use the card benefits without paying a ton in interests. get a card and only use it to pay phone biils for instance. pay your card every mouth and in a year you will have improved your credit history and added a few bonus, miles, hotel nights, cash rewards.

        http://www.cardoffers.com
    • BoneheadFarker, on 02/22/2008, -0/+9That's actually not a good thing. Credit cards build your credit rating (funny enough). I was told to get a credit card after I got a full time job because I couldn't get a loan. You don't need to do much with it, but they will help in the long run when you want to go for any sort of loan. Of course, you do need to practice some self-control. I've been beating mine like a red-headed stepchild lately. That's definately not good for the credit rating...
      • Thuktun, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1"I've been beating mine like a red-headed stepchild lately."

        TMI.

        "That's definately not good for the credit rating..."

        Oh, you meant your credit card...
    • SmpleJohn, on 02/22/2008, -0/+7"Unfortunately, Credit cards are considered a status symbol in our idiotic society!"

      So is a big wad of cash.
      • Zipko, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Reporter: "Write the check yet, Randy?"
        Randy Moss: "When you're rich you don't write checks."
        Reporter: "If you don't write checks, how do you pay these guys?"
        Randy Moss: "Straight cash, homey."
      • ch33sehead, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4It's also asking to be mugged.
      • patik, on 02/24/2008, -0/+1Who carries big wads of cash besides drug dealers, pimps, and gangsters?
    • H0tKarl, on 02/22/2008, -0/+6I only buy with my credit cards and rarely with my debit card. I like the extra layer of security it gives me. If some deadbeat retail clerk decides to steal the number, my bank account is safe. It's easier to have the credit card company eliminate the fraudulent charges than to try to recover lost cash from the bank.
    • Huangism, on 02/22/2008, -0/+0the reason why you want to have a credit card is so you can build a credit rating to buy a house or whatever. unless you have tons of cash then you dont need a credit card. by tons of cash i mean at least 6 figures that you can spend any time
  • Herv3, on 02/22/2008, -1/+6Whats the deal with the "Footage not available for internet use" when showing the clip of Chris Dodd in part 5?
    • spyrochaete, on 02/22/2008, -0/+9Probably due to nudity.
      • staxofmax, on 02/22/2008, -0/+7Wouldn't that make it more appropriate for the internet?
    • imapluralist, on 02/24/2008, -0/+1I noticed that too. It couldn't have been a speech in front of congress. Maybe it was a speech at a private event that charged admission. I don't think pbs would have excluded it if it was within the scope of Dodd's congressional duties (with the exception of it being an in camera appearance in some judicial proceeding).
  • meshman, on 02/22/2008, -7/+52"This "sweet spot" continues to grow as the average credit card debt among American households has more than doubled over the past decade. Today, the average family owes roughly $8,000 on their credit cards. This debt has helped generate record profits for the credit card industry -- last year, more than $30 billion before taxes."

    I don't recall banking reps dragging me out of my house, forcing me to put stuff on my credit cards. If a family owes $8,000 on their credit cards, who's fault is that? The evil credit card companies? It's not the credit company's fault I might like to spend money. Don't like their fees? Find a better one or don't use them at all. If you have to, accept the fact that this is the way it is and shop (for credit) wisely.
    • Nougat, on 02/22/2008, -2/+3You could even look at it as a falsification of the standard of living. How satisfied would the average person be if they had no credit available to them? How much more unruly would the population be without credit? Who benefits from a satisfied and not unruly population?
    • Treshnell, on 02/22/2008, -2/+9Exactly, it's not the credit card that's evil, it's the lack of self control in people who have them that's evil. I'm sure there are many cards out there that could be considered evil, trying to fool customers into loads of fees and extreme interest rates, but that doesn't make credit cards bad.
      I was taught by my grandparents that debt and credit cards are bad, so I've never used them. But now that I'm going on 23 and never had a credit card, my credit score is very low. I've been considering looking around for a good card to go with, buying a few small items with it a month, and paying it off right away.
      • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3Get an Amex Blue CashBack card. Low rates, good service, decent cashback rates on pretty much everything, and no interest for 30 days, of course.

        I got a credit card when I was 18. I never actually used it (once or twice, perhaps), but it started my credit rating early.

        One of the big factors with credit scores is length of the credit history. Anything less than 7 years can be a pain. Having my credit score at an extremely high level early in life helped a LOT. Made it easy to buy a car, buy a home, get lower rates, etc.

        *Everybody* should get a credit card when they're young. Simply having one expands your options and allows you to make a better financial situation for yourself. The ability to borrow against your future earnings on a short range scale allows for you to undertake more sensible money management practices, if you plan properly and use it correctly.

        However, nobody says you have to actually *use* credit cards. Or says that you have to carry a balance on them. Self-control is indeed the key factor. Don't spend money you don't have. Credit is not money.
        • knde, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1Are you talking exclusively about the US? Keep in mind a lot of countries don't operate on the credit-system found in the US.

          I had a German professor for Consumer behaviour who bemoaned the American credit system. He spent entire sections of class reminiscing about his life in Germany and how no one ever needed credit cards - you wanted a big ticket item...you saved up accordingly. Also my mother is West African - as you can imagine not a lot of African countries use a credit-system and it's my adopted mentality.

          For the most part if you have your finances in order and no credit card, all of the benefits you mention can still be reaped here in the UK. I've certainly had no troubles so far.
          • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Yes, I'm talking about the US. Keep in mind that I really don't care how they do it in other countries, since I don't live there.

            And saving money to buy large items does not gain any of the benefits I've mentioned, because the benefits I mention involve short term purchases and generally are short range financial planning related.
      • Digger1218, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2If you go to school, use a credit card to buy books and pay it off at the end of the month..

        Easy way to build credit. Worked for me
    • ruineraz, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2I agree that it's the cardholders responsibility to understand the credit system, but alot of people are not taught fiscal responsibility... they should teach it in schools along with everything else. But that would be really bad for the credit card companies.
      • Waterrat, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1 So very true..Not sure why you are being Dugg down.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1The credit card companies ARE evil. That is why I choose not to use them.

      Oh wait...
      Is it the people that use them or the people that do not that are allowed to call credit companies evil? Or is it nobody?
  • avgbody, on 02/22/2008, -5/+15Nothing wrong with credit cards as long you don't use them, and it helps with your credit score. Personally I only have 1 credit card and haven't used it in 4 years. My only HUGE debt comes from my over price colleges I went to.
    • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -1/+13No, using them is fine. Abusing them is not.
    • orangetiki, on 02/22/2008, -1/+18I got a friend who was smart enough to have NO credit cards. None what so ever. Now makes 40k, but for some reason doesn't have a high enough credit score to get a loan for a house. Go Figure.
      • capainter, on 02/22/2008, -4/+4You ain't getting much of a house with a $40k income anyways, unless you live in like Alabama.
        • candafilm, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Not true, we make well under 40 and we live just fine in a really nice house. We just keep things budgeted and live within our means and we are doing just fine.

          And we have a fairly high price of living in this area too.
        • rkzda, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1If you are one person making 40k, you could probably get a hell of a lot of house on that income if you have some brains on how to budget and have self control.
        • floridiot2, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2AFAIK, with $40k income, you'd be lucky to get a loan for $200k. Good luck finding a good house for $200k.
          • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Depends on where you live. Mine was $138k. Three bedroom, 1650 sq. ft. in a decent neighborhood. I hear Texas has even cheaper houses.
          • floridiot2, on 02/23/2008, -1/+2Where are you at? I guess it just sucks being in California where you can't even afford a shack.
          • verto351, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1200,000 will get you a nice house here in North Texas, anywhere from 2500-4000sq. ft.
      • Huangism, on 02/22/2008, -1/+0actually your friend is pretty stupid. he has no credit score because he does not have a credit to build it up hahaha if he was smart then he would of got a credit early on and spend the money that he can pay off to build up a credit score so later on he can buy a house. and yes 40k is not a lot of money to be making per year
      • orangetiki, on 03/10/2008, -0/+1well he does have a fiance to cosign. Guess I should have pointed that out.
    • entropy71, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2OMG, education is EVIL! /sarcasm
    • bobartig, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2I disagree. I use my credit card ALL the time. I also pay it off twice a month so that fees and interest never accrue. As a result, I rack up lots of bonus points which turn into free money every now and then (Every $5k spent, or maybe twice a year, I get a little check for 1% back).
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1I heard that not using your credit card actually hurts your credit score. But then again who the hell knows, the way they determine your score is a secret anyways.
  • plizard, on 02/22/2008, -4/+100pay it off every month. the end.
    • GRAVEWiSH, on 02/22/2008, -1/+5truff
    • whorunbartertwn, on 02/22/2008, -0/+17Yup... while enjoying the better consumer protection afforded you by paying with credit card, and the cash back check once per year.
      • KraftDinner101, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Exactly, I've made purchases online with my card and the seller didn't send anything. One 2-minute call and all my money was back. Had I paid with a money order? I'm sure I'd be out a half grand.
      • kenplaysviola, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1I get 3% cash back on my credit card. Plus if I earn $200 in reward money, then they give me an extra $50 for free! You can't beat that. This is Chase Bank, by the way. They also gave me $50 credit free when I signed up. And yes, I pay my credit card off every month. I am not in debt and I use my credit card whenever I get the chance.
    • bovilexia, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2that's what i used to do. then i took a step back a decided i should just cut out the middle man. if you look around you can get the same protection on a debit card as you can on a credit card. also there are a quite a few banks who have reward debit cards. so i really don't see the need of having a credit card.
      • Huangism, on 02/22/2008, -1/+1but u cant build up your credit rating by using debit cards
      • adeptusliberus, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1"if you look around you can get the same protection on a debit card as you can on a credit card."

        Yes and no. If your debit card gets compromised, the bank freezes whatever account its linked to. That's REAL money being frozen and wont unfreeze until things get cleared up. If your credit card gets stolen, it still gets frozen, but the hard cash you have on hand from your debit card is still available. From personal experience, I've found getting things cleared up with a credit card to be extremely easy and it didn't really affect anything (but, I haven't had my debit card stolen yet, so I can't speak from the perspective).
      • Dustin00, on 02/25/2008, -0/+1I get cash back -- the middleman pays me for never carrying a balance... they're like bonus income!
    • listrophy, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Assuming it's paid off every month (which I do):
      1. Consumer protection
      2. "Rewards" (despite being sucky in some cases, it's still free)
      3. Build your credit rating
      4. My personal favorite, easily track your purchases.

      I use my credit card on as much as possible so that at the end of the month, I import the transactions into Cha-Ching (or MS Money or Quicken, etc) for analysis. Any true geek can appreciate the statistical analysis advantage of credit cards.
    • Ikulus, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1I do the same with my debit card. It's great. I've got Excel sheets with pie charts and graphs...
    • counterspin, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2Well, if it were this simple, there wouldn't be a problem, right?
      • unpolloloco, on 02/23/2008, -0/+2there isnt a problem - until people start not paying them off every month
    • digggggggggg, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3You're completely right. However, not everyone realizes this. This is the reason why people like Senator Dodd want to introduce legislation that discloses information suggesting that it's not a good idea to just pay off the amount due.

      Take for example, that lady in part two that has more than enough to pay off her credit card debt in the bank, but doesn't do so because she feels that it's necessary to leave savings. That's not a good strategy because if anything happens, and you don't come up with that payment, the debt snowballs and eventually eats up your savings. Obviously, the bank has nothing on their statement that enforces the idea that it's a good idea to pay off the entire sum right then and there. It's people like these who would benefit from more regulation of this industry.
      • unpolloloco, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1why more regulation? why not just more education???
  • MicrosoftBob, on 02/22/2008, -5/+36Yet another reason to support PBS.
    • spyrochaete, on 02/22/2008, -7/+3You're in favour of panda bear syphilis? You monster!
      • spyrochaete, on 02/22/2008, -1/+6Ever get giddy at work with with only an hour to go on Friday? Digg me down please.
  • ErnestSixpence, on 02/22/2008, -4/+1It certainly has a sordid past, but these days I like the convenience.
  • SebHughes, on 02/22/2008, -14/+6Credit Cards are the devil, they should only be used as a last resort unless you know you can pay them off on time.
  • navster15, on 02/22/2008, -0/+9I use a credit card, but that's only because my bank has an asinine '6 free transactions per month' rule on my chequing account. Plus it's a rebate card, so I get a few bucks kicked back to me each month. I don't at all advocate keeping any sort of balance on your credit card, but it sometimes has its uses.
    • BinaryDelt, on 02/22/2008, -1/+7Switch to a different bank. Your bank sounds retarded.
    • mustafya, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Let me guess... it is a mma or other savings type account dressed up as a checking account? The reason they have that rule is because they have to by regulation. That rule allows them to pay out higher than normal interest because they don't have to hold as much of your deposits in capital reserve. A good idea you might want to look into is openeing a free checking account and setting up a sweep relationship between your mma/savings account and your actual checking account. Learn the rules of the sweep relationship (ask the branch manager he will be more than happy to explain it). Then put your spending money in the checking and keep your savings in your savings. If you overspend your checking then money will sweep overnight from your savings into the checking to cover the overdraft.
      • navster15, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1All I know is that this is the basic chequing account offered at my bank and I don't receive any sort of interest on it (I'm also required to keep a minimum balance to avoid incurring a service fee). It could very well be that I am Canadian, and banking is for some reason different up here. Anyways, the credit card solution works fine for me, and I have yet to spend a cent paying off interest.
    • Radigg, on 03/05/2008, -0/+0its crazy that your bank charges you for purchases, why dont you just switch, am sure there other banks that will take you!
  • ExSlashdotter, on 02/22/2008, -11/+4Wow, a site that I actually can't view from either Safari or Firefox on a Mac. Its been a pretty good long while since I've ran across one of these...

    Thanks for nothing, PBS
    • DapperDave, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2Seems to be working fine for me in both Firefox and Safari...
      • ExSlashdotter, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1But the videos won't play in either VLC or WMP...
    • bobartig, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Install Flip4Mac, or possibly Perian, already. WMP for mac has been broken for years, and isn't being developed anymore... or something along those lines.
  • katorga, on 02/22/2008, -2/+30OMG, don't replace a credit card with a debit card. The risk of identity theft or fraud is too direct. Just get ONE credit card, let them carry all of the fraud liability, and pay the thing off every month. I have two - one for everyday use and one with a very small limit for internet purchases.
    • DrMonkeyLove, on 02/22/2008, -0/+8Truth. If I see a fraudulent charge on my credit card, I just call and contest it. If I see a fraudulent charge with my debit card, there could be a crap ton less cash in my bank account before I notice.
    • Otto, on 02/22/2008, -1/+5Agreed. Debit cards are *WAY* worse than credit cards. Not only do you lose all the useful consumer protection benefits of credit cards, but you actually are even more at risk than simply carrying cash.

      Credit cards have their uses. Debit cards are the true evils.
    • amigabill, on 02/22/2008, -1/+0Ideally having only one card would suffice. But it becomes annoying with different places accepting only certain ones, and other places accepting only different certain ones. I'd use my Costco Amex card exclusively if I could, but there's some places that don't take it. And Costco only takes Amex. When I had a Sams Club membership, they only did Discover. The system is set up to make it inconvenient to have only one card. I myself was happier when I was living off debit cards, and had to stop spending when it ran out until the next paycheck deposit, even with certain risks that credit cards protect better. (I had one debit card account for my free spending money, all my bills are paid from other accounts so the card can't hurt the billpaying abilities) I only ever had to do one disputs, luckily for $10-ish when a parking garage double-billed, but my credit union immediately put that $10 into my account while they looked into the issue, I did not have to wait until after they verified everything to get it back.
      • Nothlit, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1If a store doesn't take Visa, screw 'em.
    • SocialPoison, on 02/22/2008, -2/+1@amigabill

      Or you could just get a Visa or Mastercard like the rest of the ***** country. Those specialty cards are neat for their rewards but at the end of the day it's not worth having a card you can only use at one store (possible exceptions for business owners etc)
      • minoss, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Amex and Discover are hardly specialty cards.

        Oh, and the reply button is an amazing new feature.
    • Xsr2000, on 02/23/2008, -0/+0Visa debit cards, at least, offer the same level of protection as their credit cards. I speak from experience - I had a debit card cloned and I had the money refunded within 24 hours.

      http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/personal_f ...
  • Bratan1, on 02/22/2008, -6/+25I don't understand the whole notion of being a slave to a credit card. Why can't people take responsibility for their own lives? My wife and I have 3 credit cards, but use only 1 on a regular basis. We then pay off the balance in full each month. If for some reason we need to make expensive purchases some month, we'll just open up a new card with no interest for a year, and use that, then close it once the balance is paid off. Seems like child's play to me
    • ffttoteof, on 02/22/2008, -6/+4You are absolutely right, I don't understand it either. "OH MY GOD THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO _TRAP PEOPLE_ AND MAKE THEM _SLAVES_!!" Yeah, well, how about

      A) Don't sign contracts without reading and understanding them. This is YOUR CREDIT you're talking about here, not some software EULA you can just click "Agree" on without reading. If it's too complicated for you to understand, DON'T SIGN.

      B) If you can't pay the money back, DON'T BORROW IT. Or at least if you do, don't be surprised and resentful when they penalize you, legally, based on the contract YOU SIGNED.

      I really don't understand this "Oh, Americans can't get out of debt!!" mentality. Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to get INTO debt.
      • TnTBass, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1It really stems from a lack of education on what debt is, how to manage it, and how to avoid it. I got my education first hand seeing my parents go through very tough financial times. I always knew I didn't want to have their problems.

        If the contracts said "We will rape you if you don't pay" People will understand them. However, its the fine print 8 miles long people don't read.
    • ceruleanocte, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1I thought it was bad to "close" a credit card account. Don't you just zero it out and keep it "active"?
      • Bratan1, on 02/22/2008, -0/+0It's bad only if you've had the card for a long time and built credit history with them. If you've only had the card a short time, it doesn't do much to your score
      • unpolloloco, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1why not just shred the physical card, but leave the account open?
    • nonrate, on 02/22/2008, -3/+2You won't see them on sites like Digg.com. The people that are the slaves here are those that have no sense of responsibility. They view credit cards as free money. They see a card with a $5,000 balance as $5,000 in my pocket. I can now buy an xbox and a 50" plasma tv. They understand they're supposed to pay it back, but do not consciously process it. I'll pay the minimums... that's all I have to do. Sure. And your debt will never go away. Where does this attitude come from? I'll get dugg down for this maybe, go ahead do it... I believe it comes from our social programs that have effectively taught millions if you don't want to be responsible, your loving government will take it over for you. Just at a price I'm not willing to pay...
  • mediaspree, on 02/22/2008, -3/+15Get a card with cash back and pay off your bill every month. Its like giving yourself a 1-5% raise.
    • bogatash, on 02/22/2008, -1/+5It's more like get 1-5% off your purchase
      • Thuktun, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1For purchases you already make, there's little difference.
  • narcofiche, on 02/22/2008, -9/+4I thought this was going to be a cute video that compresses ten billion hours of research into a 3 minute youtube video. If I can't have my important news in the span of a pop song, I don't want it. Five parts... I can give you five parts you can kiss, Mr. News.
    • spiritditch, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Right on! ***** the news!

      I have a fever, and the only prescription is more soundbites!

      /end sarcasm
    • WyllyWylly, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1Idiot.
  • cufford, on 02/22/2008, -6/+7We've come to the point where people are buying their own money. Think about it! With so few good paying jobs left in America, and people losing their homes like it's going out of style because they can't pay their mortgages, big corporate America has turned to selling people their money through the ever-increasing use of credit to make daily purchases like rent and food. More and more people are literally buying their own money these days, locked into the vicious credit cycle just to survive.
    • pogfreak, on 02/22/2008, -2/+4And "most people" (lawl) have no one to blame but themselves for their poor money management skills and lack of basic common sense.
      • cufford, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2There's obviously no denying that poor money management skills is a huge factor, but who's to blame for that..not just the poor money managers. In many cases our parents and schools don't bother to teach us these fundamental life skills, and certainly our culture at large pushes a different message. We're all a product of our environment in many ways. Like many skills, they aren't inherent in simply being a live human. We have to learn, and often be taught many life skills, or learn the hard way. My point about the loss of America's good paying jobs (Thank you NAFTA, et al), a result of decades of traitorous trade policies which has decimated our manufacturing base, is a different issue, but relevant. Record foreclosures and soaring credit defaults are the result of one thing, not enough jobs that pay a true living wage anymore. People are sinking.
        • pogfreak, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Yes, lets get rid of NAFTA and see where we are in 20 years. I'm personally still protesting all the textile mill jobs we lost 100 years ago. The world is flat - globalize or die bitches!
    • whorunbartertwn, on 02/22/2008, -1/+0There are plenty of good playing (sic) jobs in America.
    • Spektr4, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1When you consider payday loans, they really are selling you your own money!
  • bincoder, on 02/22/2008, -1/+4Best to have them but not use them but for an emergency. On the other hand, it is unsecured debt. Default and they cant really do much about it, other than watch their stocks drop like a rock if widespread. Default on a house and wind up living on the streets. That is a crucial difference. One more reason that credit places should just lend a little, and then only if the customer doesn't need the money.
    • masonreloaded, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2What a brilliant idea - start a company that only lends to people who don't need it. I'm sure there will be a huge demand for this service... oh wait, there won't be...
      • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1I don't NEED credit (except for my house), but I do have a credit card. There is a difference between needing something, and it being convenient to have.

        And while the credit card company doesn't see a dime of interest from me, they do get 3-6% of the purchase price of everything I buy.

        Guess there is a demand.
  • robbob, on 02/22/2008, -2/+13My Muslim friends all pay cash for everything because credit it against their religion. Even put away money each month for years so they can buy their next (used) car. The only thing they finance is their home.

    I've learned from this, and now I'm stress free and work less.
    • Bratan1, on 02/22/2008, -15/+4Just don't go around blowing people up for no reason
    • ffttoteof, on 02/22/2008, -0/+13I wonder why they finance their homes if credit is against their religion? Is there a specific exception for home purchases? Or do they just ignore their religion when obeying it would be really really hard?
      • capainter, on 02/22/2008, -4/+1Good question. Not surprising, as traditionally lenders were Jewish and we all know Muslims and Jews do not get along.
      • dave6, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3They found a way to work around the restriction. The bank buys the house and the "homeowner" actually pays the bank rent. Only after making the last payment do you actually own the house. So the effect is the same but at no time are you paying interest, because you're actually paying rent instead.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3035292.stm
        • EvolvedAnt, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3It is only masking the reality, in the end they are still binding themselves to a sin, it is just easyer for them to pass it off because there is a middle man involved. The amount the bank would have made had they charged interest is taken into account when the bank offers a rental payment for them to agree to. If it REALLY was no interest, don't you think EVERYONE would claim to be muslim just to get a house with 0% interest, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars?
        • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Does the bank get to keep any increase in the house's value during the time the person is "renting"? If not, this is mere sophistry and should be considered immoral to someone who's religion is against it.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1Now if only killing infidels was against their religion...
    • faskippy, on 02/23/2008, -1/+1Wow. It took a Muslim to teach you money sense?
  • ileftfark, on 02/22/2008, -3/+33I hate this mentality - "Oh, they made slaves out of us!"

    They're a credit card company, not an angry mob with guns and *****. They can't "make" you do anything. People need to realize that they have a lot more power over their own lives than they'd like to admit. I messed up when I was younger, and had tons of credit cards and tons of debt. I still have debt, but I've paid off and canceled as many as possible. I'm down to two cards, and plan on closing out one of them.

    It's fairly simple, once a person has built up good credit, the only reason to have a credit card is to spend money you don't currently have. That's not a good budgeting plan.
    • masonreloaded, on 02/22/2008, -2/+2Not entirely true: as others have stated, if you use it right, having a credit card provides A) valuable fraud protection B) rewards
      • ileftfark, on 02/22/2008, -2/+2You're right - they protect against fraud on a card you don't need, and "rewards" that you don't want. To top it off, you've already paid for both, by paying their spiffy 19% interest rate. You really think they're "giving" you anything?

        Again, I own credit cards too, but don't kid yourself on how "good" they are to have.
        • Envark, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3Do you even understand how credit cards work?
          If you pay your card off in full within 30 days, then you are charged no interest.
          I make a few hundred dollars a year in rebates from credit cards without paying a cent in interest.
        • whorunbartertwn, on 02/22/2008, -0/+0Ok ileftfark, the $0 interest I paid over the last year is how I've paid for the $300 rewards check that you wouldn't want anyway. Right.
        • bobartig, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Er, ok, so lets say you can pay for something using either check, cash or credit card. If your credit card has fraud protection, and the vendor turns out to be a scam, you can get your money back. Check and cash? Not so much. For some, this is a valuable service, and if used correctly, it doesn't cost them anything. So, I am not kidding myself on how good they are. I am demonstrating that they can be genuinely useful.
          They can also bury you in debt. It's a double edged sword.
    • theutopian, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2No, they have made slaves out of us. Sure, you can be responsible and choose not to participate or participate responsibly. But the CC companies have successfully made a system where you cannot get anywhere in life if you don't participate in THEIR system. Want a house? Well, have many credit cards have you had? It's sickens me that the value of human life has been reduced to the FICO score. So, they are MAKING us participate in their system in order to do simple things like buy a house.
      • ch33sehead, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2As opposed to what, paying CASH for a house?
        • theutopian, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1If only that was the way things were done.
      • Mothrog, on 02/22/2008, -2/+1Hey, here's a crazy idea: use a credit card once in a while and then pay it off every month. Incredible!
        • theutopian, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1I resent the fact that I have to participate at all. It's like forcing me to go to church when I reallty don't believe in what goes on there.
  • coheedcollapse, on 02/22/2008, -1/+8I have one credit card. I will always have one credit card. I use it for gas or emergencies every once and a while and pay it off in full at the end of each month.

    The only thing I ever really plan on taking out any sizable amount of money for is a house. It's all about discipline really.
  • zaribars, on 02/22/2008, -0/+12It's a very common misconception to think that having credit cards is a bad thing. The trouble actually starts when you charge more to your card(s) than you can pay off at the end of the month. Having a credit card or two and using them constantly whilst paying the entire balance every time you get the bill increases your FICO score over time. However, if you charge more than you can afford and you find yourself leaving balances on the card which accrue interest against you, then you are giving in to the scam. Limiting yourself to using only debit cards and/or cash might make it more difficult for you get the best interest rates for that home or car loan later on in life. Using credit cards wisely and paying entire balance month-to-month = better credit score = better interest rates for your car, home, line of credit, equity loan, etc.
    • kathologist, on 02/22/2008, -0/+0My FICO went actually went up when i had a few hundred dollars in revolving credit, and went down over 20 pts when i paid it off! So take that FICO score with a grain of salt. Also, due to some weird glitch, my son's FICO score was a whopping 9000 the other day.
  • bobbydiamondz, on 02/22/2008, -1/+15So, I'm what the industry calls a "deadbeat" as well. I pay my balance in full every month. So what do they do? They keep upping my limit. I now have one card with a $65,000 limit. WTF? I could never pay off that card if I maxed it out. Hell, I couldn't pay it off if I used 1/6th of what's available. I guess the banks have nothing to worry about though. If their crappy lending practices get them into trouble, they just go crying to ol' Ben to bail them out.
    • chuckDontSurf, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2First off, what's the problem if you have a $65,000 limit if you don't intend to ever max it out? Second, if it bothers you, you can call the company and have them lower your limit.
    • Inox555, on 02/23/2008, -1/+0The correct credit card industry term for someone who regularly pays their balance in full every month is "transactor."
  • SteelChicken, on 02/22/2008, -9/+28ZOMG the evil credit cards companies MAKE me buy stuff with my CC! I have no will power, its THEIR fault
    take some responsibility, pussies.
  • howdareyou, on 02/22/2008, -1/+6"Probably my best decision in life, not to have a credit card. Unfortunately, Credit cards are considered a status symbol in our idiotic society!"

    It's pretty tough to go through life without one, try renting a car without a credit card.
    • heartcoldfusion, on 02/22/2008, -2/+2Most car companies let you rent a car with a debit card.
      • Nothlit, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Yes, but when they authorize the debit card prior to handing you the keys, your bank account magically has several hundred dollars frozen which you can't use until after you return the car and the final charge goes through...
    • faskippy, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Cash deposit. Usually $200. No big deal if you can afford a vacation, just plan on it. Debit cards work too. Just remember, they set the deposit aside in the account. Just budget for it, and it means nothing.
  • yoda17, on 02/22/2008, -6/+2What if I don't have a credit card?
  • coheedcollapse, on 02/22/2008, -0/+8I haven't watched this documentary yet (I will when I have time), but personally I'm surprised that the credit card industry is the "most complained about". I've had FAR more problems with insurance than anything credit related. If I go over, that's my fault, but when an insurance agency not only tries to wiggle out of all payments constantly, but RAISES your rates if you actually decide to use their service is crap.
  • orangetiki, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2i wish I knew this when I was a kid. At least I don't owe like SOME people do.
    Moral of the story: Teach your children about the risks
  • cgoff, on 02/22/2008, -4/+15Has anyone realized that it's 100% acceptable in our society to be hopelessly in debt for life? Unless you are a silver-spooner it's almost impossible to get through life without accumulating some debt. Vehicles are $15K+, houses are $100K+, college tuition is $40K+ (and that's for a state college!).

    I'm completely debt free at the moment, and am saving and investing every penny I have, but am looking for my first house purchase. Even when making a decent amount in income (BEFORE I get the crap taxed out of me) and having no debt trying to come up with $100K in cash is nigh impossible. It's almost as though nobody wants to see you succeed.

    Days like these almost make me wish I lived in the 1800's and could just carve out a living with my two hands. Houses too expensive? I'll just cut down some trees from my property and make one myself (can't do that today, need a permit on my area and can only cut down three per year without heavy fines). No need for permits for government permission to take a dump in a hole on my land, or worry about loosing MY LAND because I can't pay property taxes.

    *shakes Ron Paul's hand* It was worth a shot...
    • theutopian, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2I'm sure there are still many places left in the world where you can have a life like that. Alaska practically gives land away and they PAY you to live there (Alaska Permanant Fund).
    • whorunbartertwn, on 02/22/2008, -1/+4Living in the 1800s?

      Enjoy the outhouse with the bucket of corn cobs in it, the threat of smallpox, stoking that fire in the middle of the night to keep the main room above freezing where you're sleeping with your family, and hopefully John Wayne has already taken out all the injuns in your area.

      Nah, I think I'll sit right here in 2008 where the current crisis is people having picked the wrong format HD-DVD format before Christmas.
    • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1That's some bias you have there. Not all debt is "crushing, soul-sucking" debt that you can never work your way out of, as you seem to imply.

      I have a house, with more than the nigh impossible $100k in debt that you mention. Oddly enough, my month payment on the house is a reasonable $650/month. Is that soul sucking? Hardly.

      And there are plenty of places you could buy land with timber, and make your own one room house. I've looked at exactly that sort of land in the mountains, with no restrictions on how you use it or what you build. And THAT property is far less than your $100k number. Plenty of places have land at less than $2k/acre. Are you telling me you can't save for that?

      Or are you just complaining, because you don't want to go into debt to buy a house in the city where you want, continuing to live in the style you want? I've occasionally thought about going off and trying to farm and live off the land, as your seem to be talking about. I've also come to the conclusion that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and I would probably be far less comfortable than where I am now.
      • CastrTroy, on 02/23/2008, -0/+0Also, not all debt is bad debt. Sure a mortgage is debt, but the value of a house doubles every 10 years, so the interest you end up paying on the house will come back to you over the long term. Also, the alternative is to rent, in which case you're spending a little less money, but in the end own absolutely nothing. College tuition is the same kind of debt. Sure it costs you a lot up front, but you make more money over your lifetime.
  • jeremyduffy, on 02/22/2008, -0/+3Managing credit is clearly harder than most people can handle. Simple test: have you ever carried a balance further than you planned? Ever paid a late fee? Then you need to change to a credit free lifestyle (speaking from experience).
  • promoe, on 02/22/2008, -3/+0I am credit card addicted too, but that's the reality! I can't live without it! What do you think? Will cash money disappear?
  • johnbr, on 02/22/2008, -3/+7Yet another example where people refuse to bother to understand what they're getting into, and then whine about the consequences. You make yourself a slave to the credit card companies. They do not make a slave out of you.
  • josegutz, on 02/22/2008, -0/+8Lexus's and That posh Loft downtown seem to be the new rave, and stupid shows like Sex and the City & Lipstick Jungle are giving young women the wrong ideas about spending money irresponsibly on Shoes and bags. I know this one girl co-worker of mine, has a new outfit everday, and she is in major debt always complaining at work about her bills. She makes the same as the rest of us and she is still paying off that Dolce and Gabbana.
  • PhairOh, on 02/22/2008, -2/+15There is nothing wrong with using credit cards. Credit cards are marvelous tools. They allow you to buy things without needing to carry around loads of cash and then they give you benefits as well. I use my credit cards for every purchase I am able to and as a result I get 1-3% cash back on all my purchases. A few months ago I got a check from my credit card company for $250, which I then used to help pay for my Xbox 360. And I've gotten all those benefits without the credit card company taking a dime out of my pocket.

    The problem is not the credit cards, it's the abuse of credit cards. If you abuse credit cards and spend beyond your means, that's your own problem and not at all caused by the credit card or the credit card company. If you drive a car too fast on the highway and get a ticket, or worse get into an accident, do you blame the car manufacturer for making the engine too powerful?
    • barkus, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4You clearly did not watch the documentary... there is a long list of grievances with the way credit card companies operate that is addressed in the documentary. Customers spending beyond their means is not one of them (however it is the root of the problem).
      • PhairOh, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1I actually have watched it, although I'll admit it was probably about 9 months ago when I did.

        However, I feel that virtually any grievance that a consumer has with a credit card company ultimately boils down to poor spending habits, as you say ("root of the problem").
    • Hamletlere, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1There are many problems with credit cards. I personally have problems with them being able to track every purchase I make with them (which could possibly be used against me in court), and with the concept of Universal Default (Late on the payment to one credit card issuer? All your creditors then raise their rates! Yay!)

      Not being able to restrain yourself from spending what you don't have, however, is not a problem with the credit cards.
  • bigjimslade, on 02/22/2008, -3/+10No, YOU make YOURSELF a slave to credit card debt.
  • Pic0, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1I like credit cards. AMEX is really nice.
  • iucraigmc, on 02/22/2008, -0/+6Dugg for great Justice to all of us Dave Ramsey fans out there. Kill the debt and build your wealth people!! These companies are ruthless! Get an emergency fund, cut up the credit cards, pay off your debts and free yourself from this misery. http://www.daveramsey.com to listen to Dave Ramsey's free radio show. It takes patience but its better than living your life in debt for the rest of your lives.
    • dreesemonkey, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Dugg :) Started listening to DR about this time last year, paid off almost $10k by December (keep in mind I make less than $40k). Currently 100% debt free and doing "better than I deserve":)
    • crapmatic, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2What does cutting up the cards accomplish? This isn't 1977... you can buy things online without a physical card. Closing the accounts might be a better idea.
  • ZebZ, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2I got into trouble with credit cards 7.5 years ago. I got rid of them all and waited for the stains to come off my credit report. Now they are gone, but I still can't get credit because I don't have any active credit... grr!
  • neyneyjung, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Credit card is just a tool. It's depend on how the users use it. I like having credit cards for buyer protection, cash back, and most importantly, my statements. Maybe it's just me, but when I use cash, it's harder for me to remember where and when I spent it. With CC, I can check online and put my purchases into accounting software like quicken to keep track of my cash flow. (which I recommend everybody to do too. It's sometimes can be an eye-opener how much you spend on things without realizing it). All you have to do is pay off your balance in full every month, and you'll be just fine.
    • bovilexia, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2i am going to sound like a broken record here, but you can do all that with a debit card.
      • belly917, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1And as others have said before.. the risks of debit card fraud are much worse and immediately debilitating. If someone fradulently charges money from your debit card, it's immediately taken from your account until the problem is solved. (good luck paying other bills) Whereas, with a Credit card, that purchase is flagged and doesn't have to be paid while it's being investigated.
      • jefflundberg, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1Credit cards offer better rewards (I prefer cash back) than debit cards. The way fraud is handled with credit cards is friendlier to the consumer than with debit cards (see belly917's comment). Also, I haven't heard of a debit card that offers price protection like some credit cards do. I got $100 back from AMEX because Apple dropped the price of the iPhone after I had made the purchase. It's services like these that make credit cards much better than debit cards. All you have to do is live within your means - i.e. pay them off in full every month.
  • WShawcross, on 02/22/2008, -1/+3we need some better alternatives to credit cards in this country.
  • nextyoyoma, on 02/22/2008, -1/+10My friend's mom actually said "Debit cards are for poor people." Seems to me that credit cards MAKE poor people...
    • JorgeGT, on 02/22/2008, -1/+2No, you're poor when you can't feed yourself daily, when you have a debit card you've achieved a high level of commodities.
      I'm in studying far from home and I use a debit card (which I track online) linked to an account with a little money in it so it's basically what a card should be, an electronic replacement for your cash as notes are a replacement for "lots of coins", not a "portable money lender" which lends you money on the fly. Considering the impulsive human nature, that feature is very risky!
  • apc3161, on 02/22/2008, -5/+12Sorry I disagree with this documentary. People should be more responsible. Read the terms and agreements before you sign up for a credit card. And whenever you use a credit card, you should say to yourself, "this is a loan, I better be able to pay it back". I mean no one is forcing you to take out that loan.But if you voluntarily choose to use a credit card, well then you have be willing to accept that responsibility and pay off the loan. Obviously if you don't you will be in trouble.

    But honestly, in many respects it makes sense that they charge such high interest. Do you realize how much risk there is for the banks with regard to credit cards? Think of it like this, its a loan with no conditions attached. For instance, if you go to a bank to take out a regular loan in order to purchase capital for a business, start up a business or whatever, the bank will require you to tell them exactly what you are going to spend that money on, and they will make a corresponding decision on the level of risk and charge an interest rate accordingly.

    For a credit card, there are no conditions. You could be spending your money on capital or other things that will increase your potential earning power in the future, or you could be blowing that money on concert tickets. The banks don't sit there and analyze every single transaction as they do with regular loans. Hence, they charge a higher interest rate because there is less guarantee that you are spending your money in a fashion that will help you pay off that loan in the future.

    Listen, I hate to be defending banks. I'm not wealthy, I'm a poor college student who is about to graduate. Regardless, I have had a credit card for the past 6 years and have never missed a payment, and I'm poor. But at the end of the day, it's a voluntary transaction, no one forced me to use a credit card. That's how I see it.

    If anything, the government should remove some of the legal entries required to set up a credit card company. Allow for there to be more competition. That's about the only thing I would advocate.

    And while their profit margins are high, they aren't extraordinary. Microsoft had a profit margin last quarter of 29%, Master card 25% GE 14%. And those companies are a lot bigger than master card.
    • diggingaround, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Can you tell me how one builds a credit history without signing a pact with the devil?
      • Nothlit, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Open a low-limit credit card, use it for a few small transactions, and pay it off every month.
        • apc3161, on 02/22/2008, -0/+2Exactly. There were two main lines in this film that I found annoying. At one point the lady was like, "and you see that dress there, so you just have to buy it." That of course is the wrong mentality. For me, a credit doesn't change whether or not I can afford something. I either have the money or I don't. A credit isn't "free" money. I use a credit card for convenience. I don't like carrying cash around, so I would prefer using a credit card, and I only buy things if I can afford them. A credit card should have no impact on whether or not you can afford something. I don't consider my credit line to be my bank account balance, I consider my bank account balance to be my bank account balance.

          The other part was the part where that couple was saying how after they lost their jobs, they were "forced" to rely on credit cards to survive. I would reply with, well what would you have done if the credit cards weren't there? They would be even worse, they would of had no money whatsoever. People shouldn't look at credit cards as some kind of insurance in case of an emergency. That is what savings or real insurance are for. They would have been worse off if it wasn't for their ability to use credit cards. Also, he said they went $80,000 in debt. OK, $80,000 is a years salary for an average couple. No one should be unemployed for a year and live off credit cards, that is stupid. They obviously didn't tell the whole story there, at one point they should have just taken fast food jobs or retail jobs if it got that bad. Doesn't add up.

          Bottom line, some small percentage of people are being irresponsible with their credit cards. Just as people are irresponsible with alcohol, fast cars etc. That doesn't mean the vast majority of people who are responsible should have to pay for those that are irresponsible (in terms of government intervention) and that doesn't mean the majority should have their freedoms taken away such as the right to use a credit card because some people are abusing their freedom.
    • theutopian, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Reading the terms and agreements is one thing... but have you actually read them yourself? They are incredibly unfair and it's amazing what they can get away with. One phrase: Universal Default Clause.
      • barkus, on 02/22/2008, -0/+4Exactly, apc would realize this if he actually watched the documentary that he "disagrees with."
        The contract law professor had a hard time understanding the agreement and admitted she didn't even understand all of it. She goes on to say a lawful agreement is one in which both parties understand the terms. The terms and conditions agreement is a trap used by the credit card companies to set the rules of the loan(and even anables them to change the rules).
        • apc3161, on 02/22/2008, -2/+1I watched the entire thing. I'm not a law professor and I basically understand the jist of what my agreements says

          "If you don't pay on time, you are *****"

          Hence, I pay on time. Anyone who has taken basic math classes understands the concept of a 20%+ interest rate. It is an endless well. Don't dive into it.
          • apc3161, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1It's like that part where they say, "So even though you can afford to pay the balance now, you don't"

            and they reply "yes"

            Listen, that is the dumbest thing they can do, they are willfully playing a 20%+ interest rate. I have no idea what is going on in their mind. Hopefully they will learn there lesson. But thats their fault, not anyone elses.
  • 0xbaadf00d, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1If you don't pay with a credit card, you are paying somewhere between 1 and 5% more, because of rewards and stuff. Just pay it off ever