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284 Comments
- Hockey13, on 02/09/2009, -3/+44*****. I don't see in the article that a survey of economists was taken. It just uses peacock terms to say that which is unproven:
"While economists remain divided on the role of government generally, an overwhelming number from both parties are saying that a government stimulus package -- even a flawed one -- is urgently needed to help prevent a steeper slide in the economy."
What is "an overwhelming number?" If a survey was taken, who was polled? What questions were asked? Buried for misleading title. - inactive, on 02/09/2009, -13/+53He promises hope and change then flushes the dollar's worth down the toilet. Anyone else see a contradiction?
- csstudent, on 02/09/2009, -3/+43Yes. They're spending more money that the US government doesn't have. Makes you feel good doesn't it....
- Obsidian743, on 02/09/2009, -6/+42Can someone clarify this for me? Are we talking about an ADDITIONAL $820 billion on top of the $700 billion from the TARP???
- boozedrinker, on 02/09/2009, -5/+37This ***** is not going to work.
- BotchaMcCoola, on 02/09/2009, -9/+37The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Bigger and more wasteful government is the only thing that can save us.
- Persian5Life, on 02/09/2009, -5/+31the government should stay out of the economy. let the bad debt liquidate. let the people who bough houses they could not afford lose them. i will not invest in GM ever, but i have no choice but to invest in GM since it is my tax dollars.
- soehner, on 02/09/2009, -8/+34The same economists that said everything was fine before, then said that the last stimulus package would get the economy 'on the mend'? Yeah! Let's do what they say.
- AnotherDiggGuy, on 02/09/2009, -8/+31Cut me a break. Won't even be spent for months/years after the fact.
- jcastillo81, on 02/09/2009, -2/+24I don't understand... everyone's broke... just print a bunch of money! Problem solved!
Me for president 2012 - ARTLUKM, on 02/09/2009, -6/+28Timeliness is probably pretty important, but I still don't understand where the "within hours" mentality comes from.
- Rothbardosaurus, on 02/09/2009, -2/+23Which economists are these? Does it register with any of them that printing vast quantities of money doesn't make an economy more productive?
- getoffmybridge, on 05/05/2009, -3/+21Please no
- sonicfrog, on 02/09/2009, -0/+17Yes... and no. The price tag is higher. When you buy a car, you don't buy it for the sticker price; you have to add the interest you're going to pay into the price. I this case your question should be:
<i>Can someone clarify this for me? Are we talking about an ADDITIONAL $1.2 tillion on top of the $950 billion from the TARP???</i>
Yes! - AnotherDiggGuy, on 02/09/2009, -8/+25Damn those republicans for telling the democrats to give the money directly to the people through tax cuts, let the people spend the money how they see fit.
Hail the democrats for wanting to start up a gazillion government programs, give billions to various organizations, and decide how Americans want to spend their money for them.
Yep, your logic is flawless. - D4M4N, on 02/09/2009, -6/+22what economists. The nonpartisan economists don't say so.
- mfc5200, on 02/09/2009, -1/+17That's funny. I saw this statement signed by hundreds of economists saying it was a terrible idea:
http://cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.p ...
Also, the Congressional Budget Office said that it will hurt our economy in the long run.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cb ...
This is nothing more than a classic example of politicians thinking no more 2-4 years ahead to save their own skins. They are willing to ignore what is good for the country in the long run (fiscal discipline), in order to temporarily boost the economy and get re-elected for "getting us out of the recession". Once its time to pay the bills in 30 + years and the interest starts mounting up on the borrowed money, they will no longer be in office, so what do they care what happens then? Answer: they couldn't give a *****.
Politicians only think to the next election cycle. Statesmen think long term. Vote everyone out of office who votes for this deceitful act.
This is another reason why we need term limits. Give each President, Representative, and Senator one 6 year term. That is enough time to do whatever they want to get done. They don't have to worry about getting re-elected because it would be impossible, so hopefully they would start thinking long term. Also, it is more likely that people who DONT want to make a career out of politicians would run for office, and ironically those usually make the best politicians. - AnotherDiggGuy, on 02/09/2009, -7/+21They've been wrong at every turn up to this point, I'm sure this time their ideas will work.
- yngtimmy, on 02/09/2009, -6/+19For the president to get on tv and say that THIS bill needs passed or the country will never recover is wildly irresponsible. STD protection, $ for moving govt agencies, etc will not create jobs and to lay it all out as immediately required (or else) is un-presidential and arrogant.
- PhantomRogue, on 02/09/2009, -1/+14I just have to wonder where all this support of these packages are coming from. People from the beginning of time are told the addage, you can't dig yourself out of a hole, if you keep doing what put you in that hole in the first place.
If there is a huge credit crunch, why the ***** are we BORROWING MORE to pay for what we already can't afford to pay?
More spending is not the answer.
Stop the War on Drugs, Stop the War on Terror, that alone is billions a year we could be saving. Stop filling our prisons with drug users, and fill them with the Violent Dealers. Stop trying to democratize the world, fix our problems first. Eliminate Welfare and FoodStamps after 1 year timelines. Welfare is a limited gift, not something people should rely on. - inactive, on 02/09/2009, -10/+23Agreed. Now, rework the plan into something that might actually stimulate the economy and we'll be set.
- jhails, on 02/09/2009, -1/+13Dear peasants
Quit griping. Put the money in a plain brown van and shut the hell up or I will destroy your economy.
Little people don't understand big complex issues so hurry up and get me my money right now!
Trust me I know what needs to be done. - pilobilus, on 02/09/2009, -5/+17Be afraid! Be very afraid! Do it NOW NOW NOW or we are all DOOMED!
- Oatlord, on 02/09/2009, -2/+14Buried for inaccurate. Title should read, "Some (of the economists that we've picked because they say what we want them to say) agree time is of the essence for stimulus."
- rrc7cz, on 02/09/2009, -1/+12Yes, the same economists who didn't see this thing comming. Read Black Swan; economists are mostly idiots with a poor track record. Why doesn't anyone ever look at their track record?
- jsuther, on 02/09/2009, -2/+13*****, The TARP bill was pushed through because it had to be done in a timely manner and that has been a failure.
- inactive, on 02/09/2009, -3/+14This is beyond stupid. This looks like a deliberate attempt to wreck every aspect of the US economy and turn our entire population into a continent of indentured servants.
- kemp34, on 02/09/2009, -2/+13The drunk spending "mainstream" corporatist Republicans of the George Bush era opened the floodgates for the drunk spending "mainstream" socialist-corporatist Democrats currently holding power.
These two groups have never seen a printing press they did not love.
Meanwhile, they both piss on the Constitution and common sense. And the productive person who sees through the nonsense is the one who gets plundered the most. - therealist, on 02/09/2009, -0/+10Spending and easy credit is what got us into this mess. The definition of an idiot is someone who repeats an act over and over expecting different results. How can these politicians be so stupid???
- bigtoes, on 02/09/2009, -0/+9I hate to be a buzz kill but read this .
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/06/smick.bailo ...
If what this guy says is true & he seems to be in the know with no political agenda we are screwed . The next bailout that the banks get will mortgage the next several generations. There will be no way around it . Without credit flowing we will never be able to pull out of this economic tailspin . - RSandman, on 02/09/2009, -3/+12That would be the same Ronald Reagan that dug us out of the Carter Recession by pushing massive TAX CUTS and STIMULUS programs that reduced government intervention in the economy an caused the 80's boom and ended the 40-year long cold war.
Except that this time we have a mulatto Carter pushing the opposite mess right back onto us again to force another massive recession.
So you actually like the world's most massive-in-all-of-history ANTI-Stimulus "we can believe in?" - inactive, on 02/09/2009, -2/+11FTA "This is a seismic shift in the role of government in our society," -- Yep, the federal government expanding and solidifying it's control over the states and the people. Why does my sphincter tighten up every time some 'talking-head' tells me how badly I need this stimulus and how quickly I need it?
- hamobu, on 02/09/2009, -2/+11Yes
- hamobu, on 02/09/2009, -5/+13Considering the amount of money involved, I think that it would no be prudent to rush it.
- aletoledo, on 02/09/2009, -1/+9Propaganda isn't propaganda if it's backed up by facts.
- Scanner, on 02/09/2009, -0/+8Are these the same experts that never saw the first financial crisis coming? The ones that told us the first TARP money was going to fix all the problems?
Yea, I'm pretty much done with experts. - lofispy, on 02/09/2009, -1/+9Nice theory....but one big problem...to believe it you have to drink the kool-aid and actually think Obama is the counter-point and answer to the Repugs....and that, my friend, simply isn't so....Repugs and Dems are just two-sides of the same corrupt coin, it's all just a big dog-and-pony show, political theater so to speak. The simple fact is the corporations/MIC are already in charge, and Obama is just another one of their tools to perpetuate the illusion of change while the same-ole' politics of serfdom are shoved down our throats....think about it...
- diggduggjoe, on 02/09/2009, -7/+15This whole project is a joke. They will stimulate the economy with funds they borrow from the future. So, I can stimulate my economic life by getting credits cards for my kids and going on a spending spree. That is *****.
We need tax cuts, but not at the expense of the future generations. We need drastic spending cuts. Put the money back into the hands of the people. We need free markets. All those who feel the free market did this are wrong. There was no free market in forcing banks to make bad loans or having the Fed print money to create a housing boom. There is no free market in bailing out any industry, banking, automotive or porn.
We need spending cuts, so we can move to a national sales tax which will boost personal privacy, promote saving and free more people to strike out on their own. I handle my sales tax for my business, it is clear what is required. The IRS was my biggest fear when I started my businesses. Without such fear, most of the recently laid off would be out working for themselves building a new economy for us. From time to time we need to remix our economy, if the government would get out of the way it would happen. They just want to control the situation in their best interests.
Most of the stimulus appears to be rehashed pork, which would never be passed with out such an "Emergency". - Persian5Life, on 02/09/2009, -4/+11he just says what the masses want to hear, American politics is all about selling the politician not selling the idea.
- Rivfader, on 02/09/2009, -1/+8I am by no means a financial expert. But wouldn't it be better if our government started saving money instead of throwing it at everything?
- Bubble666, on 02/09/2009, -1/+8Of course.
- csstudent, on 02/09/2009, -0/+6Just to present an opposing view, here is a list of economists who oppose the Obama debt plan:
http://www.openmarket.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/ ...
And here is a list of economists who opposed the orginal Bush debt plan:
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john.cochrane/rese ...
I know the lefties like to drag out Paul Krugman and his Nobel prize too, but there are Nobel laureate's on both of those lists as well. - getoffmybridge, on 05/05/2009, -1/+7Uh huh
- Hockey13, on 02/09/2009, -1/+7http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/421 ...
"The unusual design of WTC7 is also crucial to the discussion, in that key columns supported extreme loads—as much as 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor—as the building straddled an electrical substation. “What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors,” NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told Popular Mechanics, “it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down.” The tower wasn’t hit by a plane, but it was severely wounded by the collapse of the North Tower. Which is when the fires started."
"Steel melts at about 2,750 degrees Fahrenheit—but it loses strength at temperatures as low as 400 F. When temperatures break 1000 degrees F, steel loses nearly 50 percent of its strength. It is unknown what temperatures were reached inside WTC7, but fires in the building raged for seven hours before the collapse." - inactive, on 02/09/2009, -2/+8Please, just go back to your hut in the woods man....... When more than 3/4 of your population is against something, shouldn't our government listen? We were against TARP, it was shoved down our throats... Look how well that turned out. We were against the Auto bailout, look how that turned out (be prepared for auto bailout 2.0 in a few weeks.) We are against this bs bill for the same reasons... IT WON'T WORK.
- brettg102, on 02/09/2009, -2/+8Buys guns and ammo.
- Citationdriver, on 02/09/2009, -3/+9I wish I had permission to counterfeit/print money. Hello inflation.
- greendalek, on 02/09/2009, -0/+6First it was George Dubya threatening us with a "pass this bailout or else." Now it's Mr. Obama repeating the EXACT SAME LINE.
Doesn't matter which party runs the show or what crafty euphemism they come up with, the end result is the same: Centralized, state control of the financial sector. In other words: SOCIALISM.
Fidel Castro is on his deathbed somewhere, watching the news from the U.S. and laughing: "We WON, my comrades. We won." - Hockey13, on 02/09/2009, -1/+6Hiya, terroristusgov1. Glad you're asking questions.
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm
The arguments presented there are the primary reason you don't find many "9/11 truthers" in academia. Based on the evidence that exists, there is no proof of conspiracy. All, and I mean all, signs point to non-governmental terrorist attack involving large aircraft with a lot of jet fuel. Not explosives.
Also...telling someone that they *can't* answer your question is a touch closed-minded, don't you think? That's a tactic usually employed by religious kooks:
http://www.fstdt.com/ - uptwolait, on 02/09/2009, -2/+7Timeliness is important. Accuracy on what it will actually help is even MORE important.
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