What is Digg?223 Comments
- inactive, on 09/29/2008, -17/+89Its a good thing, believe it or not.
The markets need to readjust downward to reflect reality, so we can work on the economy in a rational way, not throwing a trillion dollars at $60 trillion of bad debt to float BS hopes for a few more months, while bankrupting the Fed Treasury.
Rewriting the loans is a win-win-win-win-win low cost solution, not a bailout:
1) This would help the real estate market prices level out & even go up eventually.
2) This would not cost the taxpayer almost anything.
3) People would not lose their homes, ruin their credit, & become destitute.
4) This would help the companies that hold the mortgages, because they would start to see an income again because people would be making their mortgage payments.
5) All of the above would be good for the economy & for wall street.
6) This would not be for real estate speculators/investors, it would only be for owner occupied loans.
Why the GOP blocked this is pretty clear, they want to transfer about a trillion dollars of our country's wealth into a few of their friends hands before they leave office. That's the only thing that makes any sense. Just like we have never ending wars based on their lies where they insist on no-bid cost-plus contracts for their buddies' companies (war profiteering) & privatizing the military. They are milking this country in every way they can think of. Next they want to privatize roads, schools. & even water (including rainwater)! Plus they want "free markets" aka more deregulation. - koicho, on 09/30/2008, -4/+43Nevermind the fact that meanwhile the FED still pumped close to $700B into the system.
Also note that percentage wise the DOW didn't drop that much. (In comparison to Black Monday 1987) We saw a preview of the market's reaction and it didn't collapse when the bill was not passed. Comes to show that may be it was all just a scare tactic. Who cares if few rich investment bankers failed?
For the rest of us - life goes on. For them - they took the risk they should take the good with the bad. - MrsButtersworth, on 09/30/2008, -3/+41Very.
- kyyv, on 09/30/2008, -2/+39This bailout plan was never meant for you and I.
Nor would we be the main beneficiaries.
And craziest of all, the same people that helped get us into this mess, would be running this.
I am glad that this disaster got voted down by the Republican and Democratic representatives who were brave enough to listen to the people back home instead of the Wall Street Gang and their bought and paid for stooges.
Look out for the financial wellbeing of you and your family, no one in the government will. - GordonFree, on 09/30/2008, -7/+41Some middle class families that I know, who bought something like 3 SUVs and a sports car (1 SUV and sports car for the spoiled girl, 1 SUV for the boy and 1 truck for the parents), they are the image of debt deserving America. They are partly the reason why this worked out this way, and I hope they die of starvation without being able to sell their stupid SUVs and convertibles.
In the mean time, I will be driving my little old CRX HF that I bought used, and that I was mocked for, by that same family. How's that for a ***** you? - TomJohn, on 09/30/2008, -1/+28Happy that a mammoth, hastily-drafted and barely-understood bill was voted down thanks to the concern and anger of American citizens? Yeah. I think so.
- binky79, on 09/30/2008, -3/+28Why should taxpayers bail out investors? Or, even better, why should taxpayers bail out the same banks that are kicking them out of their homes?
- MrsButtersworth, on 09/30/2008, -6/+29Wasn't the stock market below 10,000 just as recently as late 2000? We didnt slip into some severe recession after that, did we? The more and more I read about this whole mess, the bailout wasn't for the benefit of the American economy, but rather the American lifestyle.
- Steinr, on 09/30/2008, -1/+20Yes, most of us actually are, now 2008 might be tough year, including for me (and I do not even live in the US), but that means it can start to recover and correct the market which means we will not have a tough decade or even worse no more dollar and a collapsed world economy. I think that the bailout failed is a good thing. And a 7% drop is not that bad, post 9/11 it was 14% and black Monday in 1987 it was around 28% I believe.
- tkocf821, on 09/30/2008, -4/+23Congress is retarded for announcing a possible plan with a hard number, knowing the chance of its success was, at best, a toss up. It got investors on the edge of their seats and once the bill failed, so to did Wall Street.
The markets do need to correct themselves, we've ridden two huge bubbles past the 12,000 mark, its about time we come back to reality, besides, let the market correct will only strengthen the dollar - deadbaby, on 09/30/2008, -0/+18Lots of Democrats voted against it and lots of Republicans voted for it. It's not really a partisan issue per-say. It's a political issue. These people have to go run for re-election. It's not a very popular bill. Their opponents will use it against them. I also certainly doesn't hurt for a Republican to stand up to Bush for once. Even in the most conservative districts Bush is a liability.
Don't confuse politics with policy. - butch456, on 09/30/2008, -7/+24So you're telling us that the reason the GOP denied this bill is because they are going to give 1 Trillion dollars to their "buddies?"
The sad thing is, most people on this site will believe you and your story with absolutely no proof. - inactive, on 09/30/2008, -1/+15They say loans will be harder to get, not impossible. Face it America you are being duped. The government wants to make you believe unless they inject 700 billion the economy will collapse. The economy will not collapse but Banks will have learned a valuable lesson for the future. What will they learn if we save them? Absolutely nothing. They say this will be end of easy credit. I say so what? Try to find easy credit in Europe or other places. Good luck there. Easy credit is mainly an American invention and so far we can see it is a failure. They say the American people support this bailout but I wonder why they also report that they received millions of phone calls denouncing it. Enough phone calls in fact to frighten politicians up for re-election to switch their vote to no. The people spoke today. They said, "No." The people were heard for once. Hallelujah.
- thealsir, on 09/30/2008, -0/+13I remember the common mantra in the media and everywhere maybe two years ago or so..."Buy a house, you'll never lose...buy a house, it's the most important investment...buy a house, it's so safe." Even though the markets were showing huge signs of overheating. Many people were saying there was a bubble, but no one was listening.
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -2/+15Quite sad it assumes that the Democrats have NO friends on wallstreet.
- mshtml, on 09/30/2008, -3/+16Congress was flooded with phone calls and email. The representatives listened to their constituents and voted accordingly. This is one of the rare cases when the system worked.
- sekhui, on 09/30/2008, -0/+12that's some intense rounding right there, amirite?
- 2ndEdition, on 09/30/2008, -8/+19drop it like it's hot
- binky79, on 09/30/2008, -2/+13"banks were forced to give subprime loans"
Huh?
Lenders engaged in predatory lending, filling the loans with hidden costs, terms, and conditions. Do you actually think the banks, lenders, and investors are the innocent victims in all this? Sure people were living beyond their means, but these banks were convincing them that their property value was going to go up so much that it was stupid not to buy. - 2Bnor2B, on 09/30/2008, -4/+15I am happy the market adjusted. I hope to pick up some good quality stocks very cheap. Companies like Intel are not going anywhere. The tricky part is knowing when to jump in.
- xcbxcb, on 09/30/2008, -4/+14 Belgium Bel 20 +41.53 +1.60% 2,631.00 9/30 11:36am
Europe DJ Stoxx -0.20 -0.01% 2,588.52 9/30 11:36am
Europe Euronext 100 +2.87 +0.42% 680.72 9/30 11:36am
Europe Euronext 150 +9.29 +0.74% 1,266.53 9/30 11:36am
France CAC +14.60 +0.37% 3,968.08 9/30 11:36am
France SBF 80 +35.10 +0.79% 4,463.78 9/30 11:36am
France SBF 120 +12.15 +0.43% 2,867.62 9/30 11:36am
Germany DAX -40.14 -0.69% 5,766.94 9/30 11:36am
Germany MDAX +73.59 +1.08% 6,894.01 9/30 11:36am
Germany TECDAX +9.22 +1.36% 684.70 9/30 11:36am
Netherlands AEX +3.85 +1.19% 327.40 9/30 11:36am
Norway BRIX +2.10 +0.05% 3,926.20 9/29 12:00am
Norway OSE Industry +3.09 +0.18% 239.49 9/30 11:36am
Sweden OMX +1.09 +0.14% 775.42 9/30 11:36am
Sweden OMSX All Share -14.08 -5.41% 246.20 9/29 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 +13.63 +0.28% 4,832.40 9/30 10:36am
UK FTSE All Shares +8.01 +0.33% 2,452.59 9/30 10:36am
UK FTSE Eurotop +1.23 +0.06% 2,234.90 9/30 10:36am
UK FTSE Techmark +8.09 +0.59% 1,378.53
SAVE ME GUBERMINTS! SAVE ME! - fancypantscz, on 09/30/2008, -0/+10credit swaps
they are bets that certain loans will default
they are traded to offset risk
there are in fact 10s of trillions of dollars of these in an unregulated market and they are part of the problem
but don't take my word for it
research it yourself... - gospe1337, on 09/30/2008, -2/+11credit swapping + 19x actual on-hand capital + unabashed American debt-spending == ?
Sure, blame the government. Sure, blame whatever party suites you. But, in the end, we sat on our fat asses ***** all over our credit scores because the banks no longer cared about them. Sure, the banks had some obligation to be... banks, and the government had some obligation to... govern. But, we need to all get off our high horses here. Did anybody sit there and go, "Hey, wait, what the f**ck they're handing out credit cards to college students?" or "Oh, hey, how is the housing market so hot when we're so far in debt?". No. We were blissfully happy to listen to CNNMoney/our investment bankers on how to spruce up our porfolio by investing in real estate and real estate related investments.
Whether or not thnis bailout happens or not two things MUST happen.
1. Credit-swapping and future MUST BE FIXED. Dear lord, what on earth were they thinking?
2. Banks must more accurately--or, at least to a lesser inflated ratio--reflect what capital they actually have.
Things Americans MUST do
1. Put down the ***** plastic.
2. Live in a house you can afford to pay off.
3. Give a *****
This "ghetto-rich" non sense has got to stop. Even the poorest Americans have about 3-4x the amount of electronics (TV, radio, entertainment, etc) than the poorest people in other industrial countries. This syndrome also effects the middle class and all levels of society. People feel entitled to have a car, a nice house, a TV, a nice phone, etc. Get a bike, read a book, and get the free phone.
P.S. To all those "enraged" Americans: As far as I'm concerned, if you can't even calculate your own mortgage principal/interest, you can FYSAD. - inactive, on 09/30/2008, -0/+9Well the government could have regulated better. But neither Democrats or Republicans can cry innocent. Democrats wanted houses for every family and so had no problem with allowing lax regulation to provide them. Republicans just supported lax regulation point blank. Neither group made any attempt to correct the situation. The only good thing that can come from this is that even if the government doesn't step up and do its job, these banks will start regulating themselves. The era of easy credit will be over one way or another.
- jinsundo, on 09/30/2008, -2/+11I think what we need is a war on the economy. After all we have a war on terror and a war on drugs, then why not a war on the economy too?
Also, we need more theories. Yep, lot's of 'em. Lot's of theories is what is needed to explain why trillions of bux are being .dumped and wasted into some economic pie hole bizzaroland.
Debates. We need more debates. Lot's of debates. The more the better. We need more debates so we can debate all the many different theories. Lot's of graphs too. We need more graphs. Then we can debate the graphs while we debate the theories.. - butch456, on 09/30/2008, -10/+19And just so all of you know, the democrats were the ones pushing for this "bailout," and it was the GOP who DENIED it.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch isn't it digg? - fancypantscz, on 09/30/2008, -1/+9I just hope they don't pass another even worse bill in a few days
- xcbxcb, on 09/30/2008, -3/+11..... and whaddya know?
Futures are up all over the planet.
O NOES. SOMEONE SAVE US FROM TEH BOOGYMANS. - diddlebunny, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8Pass the bailout or not but my questions is if you fail at your job do you get a 2 day holiday? I mean really! I would think they should be at work finding ways to deal with this crisis. These people in the government do not live in the same reality as the rest of us.
- NidStyles, on 09/30/2008, -2/+10Take your own advice?
- awhiteflame, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8This was only partially the banks fault.
- webborocks, on 09/30/2008, -1/+8The Nasdaq was down almost 10% yesterday after this
- BlueAyez, on 09/30/2008, -2/+9The bail out is rescuing the largest foreign investor in the Freddie Mac Fannie Mae fiasco as well -- the communist Chinese government.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chinese-gove ... - scabbers, on 09/30/2008, -2/+9I don't care why the nay voters of both parties voted it down, I'm just glad they did.
- dialectical, on 09/30/2008, -0/+6Fancypants is correct here. There is a huge "Side Market" that is closing in on a Quadrillion dollars.
http://savekauai.org/economy/what-are-financial-de ... - binky79, on 09/30/2008, -2/+8Then why not bail out the homeowners and not their banks? If you give a homeowner the money to pay his/her mortgage company does it not have the same end? Also, isn't the nature of investing risky? It's tragic that people could lose their jobs when these companies fold, but is it worth the price to the taxpayers and the precedent it sets?
- Jordan117, on 09/30/2008, -11/+17I don't understand the people who think the bailout's defeat was a good thing. The bill was by no means perfect, but it was a definite improvement over Paulson's original no-oversight power grab. And I know that no taxpayer wants to be on the hook for $700 billion -- but was a more than $1 trillion loss on the stock market preferrable to that?
The people celebrating this need to understand that this plan was not meant solely for the big Wall Street institutions. It was meant for all of us. Because if the credit markets fold then countless businesses across the nation will not be able to meet payroll or borrow money to cover costs, and that will mean millions of people out of work.
This bill may have been unpopular, but we are in a very difficult position now, and it was the best way available to stabilize the economy. The congresscritters facing difficult reelections who nevertheless voted for the plan are the real heroes here, not the craven "nay" voters who put their own political interests above the financial security of the country. - Tbyrd073, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7It was a 60-40 split on both parties pretty much. 60% of Republicans said nay with 40% saying yes and vice versa with Democrats. It was as Bipartisan a split as could happen. And either way I am glad it did not pass but now we just need to make sure the morons don't try to sneak another bill through later on this week.
- dsmx, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7If that 700 billion dollar bail had of passed all it would of done is put off a recession for a few months at best and at worse it would of caused a depression at a later date. It seems insane to me that borrowing more money will fix a problem with borrowing money.
- korvan504521, on 09/30/2008, -0/+6The banks don't WANT to reposses those assetts. What the hell is a bank going to do with 500 houses when no one in town can buy them? They'll do what they did in Florida. Let them rot, and the value of the house decreases even further to nothing, because they don't have the support services to do anything else.
Having a bank reposses one house is fine. They'll find someone to sell it to. Having them repossess all the houses is insane because then no one will be able to buy them. - Phernoree, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7"the bailout wasn't for the benefit of the American economy, but rather the American lifestyle. "
Great quote sir, or ma'am? - HippyInASuit, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7OMG! The stock market was down yesterday and then back up today and oil is down and the dollar is up. This is the worst financial disaster in American history! Why didn't we listen to the President and hand over out economy to the Federal Reserve (private international banks)? The horror! If this keeps up I'll only have to pay $2.50 for a gallon of gas and people with bad credit won't be able to buy houses. How could we have let this happen?
- inkswamp, on 09/30/2008, -8/+14novaculus, how old are you? Were you around when Reagan was president?
This economic ***** has been threatening to boil over ever since this country started down the idiotic path of Reaganomics and deregulation. Yeah, yeah, I know over-regulation is a bad thing too but we've gone too far over to the other side now with this trickle-down, corporate-welfare, deregulate-everything approach and it's coming back to bite us in the ass.
You can keep playing Blame the Democrats all you want, but this has been steadily happening over the last 3 decades. It's the result of a failed economic philosophy being adhered to continuously (by both parties) even when it was clear that it was failing us. - Spanktacular, on 09/30/2008, -2/+8Lower the interest rate to a low, fix rate, and extend the life of the mortgage to 50 or even, 60 years.
Yeah, you can punish the twits who went for loans they couldn't afford, unlike the homes you and I bought for ourselves within our means, but that won't put money in the banks. That will leave you with a massive amount of bad debt, empty homes with abandoned swimming pools as breeding grounds for West Nile carrying mosquitoes, and it will topple financial institutions who aren't receiving any payments on defaulted, adjustable-rate (and already adjusted up) mortgages.
Oh, wait...that's exactly what's happening here.
Ever see a crime movie where some mook has to go to his bookie with his hat in hand, and he's brought a friend of his, the level-headed one, who asks the bookie if the dummy can be put on a payment plan? Level-head usually says things like "hey, if you kill him, you won't get any of your money at all. This is just business, right?"
Why do you want the banks to kill those mortgages when they could be put on a simple payment plan that puts money into their pockets on a regular basis?
Oh, and the rainwater thing I think has to do with the actions of U.S. Company Bechtel and Bolivia. They made it illegal to collect rainwater on the claim that it threatened their water business.
http://takomagardener.typepad.com/tg/2008/01/where ... - r00tus3r, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5I love how everyone is suddenly an expert on economics. Give me a ***** break, half of you have no clue what you're talking about, and the other half only have half a clue. It's ok to have opinions, but stop talking as if you're certain about what's going to happen if there is or isn't a bail out, because the truth is, none of us really knows for sure, not even the experts.
- Memitim, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5I just bought a home as well, and at about 3x my annual salary so it isn't likely to drop much more. Nine months ago it was on the market for 50% more, and sold for even more a couple years ago. Houses needed their ***** costs chopped in half to approach their real value again, and the businesses that engaged in questionable debt repackaging need to be cut down even more.
- NidStyles, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6That's great, but you know they never would have used it for that.
- NidStyles, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5You make a very valid point. They should be held to the same schedule as ourselves, and the same standards.
- crunchyeyeball, on 09/30/2008, -3/+8Yes thanks. I pulled out of the stock market in 2001 and since then I've been buying gold instead - it's been rising steadily since the problems started, and jumped again when the Dow fell.
- xcbxcb, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6I'd digg this a thousand times if I could. So much truth. Just everywhere.
Before buying my house, I did my own amortization table by hand, damnit. AND I LIKED IT.
I paid cash for my 10 year old motorcycle that gets 40mpg. I do my own maintenance. We (gasp) cook our own food! Make our own bread! We grow herbs! Our house is 1000 square feet! We pay $50 a month for our two cell phones. When the dog ate one, we bought (GASP!) a compatible GSM pre-paid phone for $20! IT STILL MAKES CALLS! We bought our house because it was close to shopping. We walk to the grocery store! We don't buy fashionable clothes! I've made some of our furniture - ZOMG WITHOUT THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN POWER TOOLS! (You'd be surprised what you can do with a nice japanese saw, a mortise chisel and a hand plane.)
It's really pretty freaking easy. -
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