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384 Comments
- kd420, on 02/17/2009, -26/+115Really, you're actually comparing the cost of the Iraq War with this bill? The difference is that:
a) about 1/3 is tax cuts (off the top of my head) so that money is going back into the economy
b) the rest is infrastructure and investment in the economy to help it, create jobs and put food on millions of people's tables
c) the Iraq War just blew up bridges and rebuilt them again, it is a circle jerk of incompetent waste.
Also, your emphasis on Obama's middle name leads me to believe YOU are the ignorant racist. - richardweaver, on 02/17/2009, -31/+110Here's the deal:
TARP and the bailouts of Bear Stearns and Citigroup are just the tip of the iceberg. So far, our government committed more than $8 TRILLION to funding failed companies (that's over $60,000 per family in America!), and has spent $1.4 trillion of that in just a few months.
If you're interested in finding out just how much this is costing you, check out the calculator. - yarcod, on 02/17/2009, -9/+77That calculator is wrong. Every income level I put in, my contribution (after interest) is $53k
- FI5HERMAN, on 02/17/2009, -23/+85More than the average wage earner can afford to part with !!!
- Shiftgood, on 02/17/2009, -72/+126so, the iraq war is estimated to cost about 3 trillion dollars. No WMDs were found, hundreds of thousands dead including American fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters, our sons and daughters, No-bid contracts to Haliburton and Bechtel, reports of cash "missing" in the hundreds of billions and the decimation of our values.
And what do the republicans do? Buy 99 cent flags made in china, stick them to their cars and claim to be patriots.
less that 1 trillion is going to help feed Americans who lost their jobs in the economic collapse (that is partially a result of the actions above). Educate our children to stimulate innovation and progress, help our auto industry and small business so people can keep their jobs and streamline an infrastructure that is hemorrhaging money right now.
where are your flags now patriots?
You only wave a flag in the face of a visible enemy because it makes you feel 'bigger than yourself'. It makes you less afraid of people you dont understand when you have friends that you know will blindly stand behind you.
You dont love your country, you dont love its people, you love yourself. And you are not a patriot. - mgraham80, on 02/17/2009, -42/+94Someone should try to calculate the cost of inaction. I'm sure it's pretty high, too.
- REBECCAFRIEDMAN, on 02/17/2009, -33/+81This calculator is a quick, infuriating reminder of just how nauseating this bailout really is.... gross.
- DivisibleByZero, on 02/17/2009, -2/+44Yeah, it's using the "$27,000 per american" figure as the basis for a 30 year loan. It totally ignores the fact that different income brackets get taxed at different rates. Which is extra stupid since it actually asks what your income is. I'm burying it.
- evanbaehr, on 02/17/2009, -19/+60Everyone thinks that the "bailout" issue is over now that the stimulus bill passed. The reality is that we have only just begun. The US Government has spent more than $3 trillion so far in loans and asset purchases... but they have more than $8.5 trillion available! This is really egregious...
- Snap65, on 02/17/2009, -10/+43I don't want an iMac.
- mhan7474, on 02/17/2009, -8/+34Where are you getting these facts?
- sloppychris, on 02/18/2009, -6/+31The cost of inaction is high according to who, the people who get to spend our money?
- dball48, on 02/17/2009, -1/+25Fine, we'll just put more money into your Chevy Aveo fund.
- richardweaver, on 02/17/2009, -5/+29You think? That's more than most relatively wealthy folks can part with. That's more than 1 years salary....
- AnotherDiggGuy, on 02/17/2009, -36/+58♫ It's the end of the world as we know it! ♫
♫ It's the end of the world as we know it! ♫
♫ It's the end of the world as we know it! ♫
♫ And I feel fine! ♫
http://nostimulus.com/ - nedzeve, on 02/17/2009, -20/+41Exactly how did they come up with that figure?
Buried as inaccurate. - ManUnitdFan, on 02/17/2009, -15/+35This has nothing to do with the bailout that just passed. The $8.5 trillion number was reached well before this bailout was even being discussed, and well before Obama was even in office.
So everyone on here bashing Obama, please do some research before talking about something you know nothing about.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2 ... - geesamba, on 02/17/2009, -4/+24This calculator is a quick, infuriating reminder of just how a slick web 2.0 interface can all too easily convey a false sense of trustworthiness to its visitors.
- hivoltage815, on 02/18/2009, -9/+27That's right. Because the Republicans ***** up it's okay for Democrats to ***** up too. That makes perfect sense.
- h0bart, on 02/17/2009, -24/+41It took a while, but I finally figured it out:
$0.00 - rjohnson99, on 02/18/2009, -4/+20I hate to break it to you big guy but Democrats aren't Patriots either. I USED to be a Republican at one point in time but was so disgusted by what they've pulled off the last few years that I am now an Independent.
What Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, etc. have been doing is disgusting. They have robbed the American people blind even before all of these "bailouts".
I will probably get dugg down but I am used to it :)
The point I want to make is that they keep us divided with their partisan rhetoric. When you take a step back you will see that they are ALL absolutely reprehensible. The other point I would like to make is that they are doing us all a favor. Every time that they screw us, Obama included, more people start to realize what's going on. When we finally get past party lines they will be voted out or a revolution......whichever comes first. I have a feeling that once we reach hyper-inflation because of all of this printing of money we don't have people are going to be mighty upset.
Don't blame me I "wasted" my vote on Ron Paul! - Landthatilove, on 02/17/2009, -16/+32They should have a way to figure how much it's going to cost your children and your childrens children.
- AnalogAssassin, on 02/17/2009, -18/+33Inaction is exactly what we need, and have been needing, for years. Government needs to stop thinking it can cure all of our economic ills.
Yes, we need to fund infrastructure improvements, no doubt about that, but that is what government is SUPPOSED to do. We need to let natural selection go to work on some companies and banks. I'd rather stake what's left of my 401(K) than trust that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid really have the country's best interests at heart. - Hetman, on 02/17/2009, -6/+19What country are you moving to? I would like to know so someone can warn them crazies are about to move in.
- Tenareth, on 02/17/2009, -10/+22This whole thread is pretty stupid, but I have to take exception to one comment.
Money spent on the war DOES go back into the economy. We make most of our own bullets, tanks and vehicles. Heck, in some ways the war money will go towards the US economy more than the stimulus bill.
I'm not saying the Iraq war wasn't a mistake, but I do disagree that the money never comes back.
Also, the "costs" are inflated, most of those costs would have existed without the war (we still pay our military, and fly training missions when we aren't actively at war). - yarcod, on 02/17/2009, -1/+13This has nothing to do with capitalism. In fact, if this were a free market, we wouldn't have had super low interest rates forcing artificial real estate speculation.
If this were a free market, a ton of people would lose jobs and be forced to quickly find ways to make money again.
Instead, people are sitting around, waiting for government handouts, taking worthless government jobs for a while (funded by tax payers), and then slowly going back to work in the private sector to finally contribute to society.
Government Intervention Fail. - Hetman, on 02/17/2009, -4/+16We currently are still in a war that is costing us billions of dollars a month. It is still happening every day. You act like the war is over how retarded is that?
- inactive, on 02/17/2009, -12/+24It's cool, I don't need to see this, I already know were *****.
- treehugger87, on 02/17/2009, -4/+16** RANT ALERT **
Where has all of the outrage from you fiscal conservatives been for the past 8 years?
1) The Iraq war will cost us at least $1 trillion. Some estimates put it at $3 trillion. We are unable to provide our returning veterans with the physical and mental services that they need.
2) The Medicare bill of 2003 was enacted only by twisting the arms of Republican congressman who didn't want it. It was billed as a bill that would cost $200 billion, the White House lied and kept information from congress and now it is estimated that it will cost over $534 billion.. Special interests spent $141 million lobbying congress to get this bill rammed through.
3) The Bush tax cuts were completely fiscally irresponsible and only benefited the richest Americans.
I haven't seen the calculator that says how much dropping the capital gains tax to 20% is going to cost each American. Or how much offshore accounts for corporations costs. I understand that when all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail, but really, can't you see that we have tried your way for too long and that it has only caused us all pain?
/rant - JaykobH, on 02/17/2009, -14/+25Shiftgood. good job sir, i would have said the exact same thing but you beat me to it, im not saying that i completely agree with the bailouts but at least money is going somewhere besides killing people or getting "lost"
- DrDash, on 02/17/2009, -7/+18Of course I would love to see the math behind this! Please. I am sure the people behind this had no motive to make it look bad! This assumes so much its not even funny! It even adds INTEREST (and 5% at that) to what you pay. It makes no assumptions that any money will come back to us (and the gov't) and the economy will continue as it is. Obama (or anyone that got pres) would look bad coming into this economy, yet the people are treating it like it can be solved over night. Give me a break. Doom and gloom all around.
- Curvearth, on 02/18/2009, -0/+11I'd rather invest my own money, thank you. I'm pretty sure I can do a better job.
- kayvman78, on 02/17/2009, -2/+12Cool. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
- kaelyiesta, on 02/17/2009, -7/+17All that doesn't even consider inflation. After the deflation from the downturn ends and after the dollar rally turns into a run and after the new money starts being put into the system, all savers will feel a lot of pain. Maybe the Keynesians will find a new way to manipulate the system and put off the inevitable a few more years.
EDIT: To add insult to injury, as I was writing this I just got an email from H&R block talking about the 'benefits' of the stimulus bill:
"
Workers
The "Making Work Pay" Credit for 2009 and 2010 is a tax credit for up to $400 for working individuals and up to $800 for couples.
Retirees and disabled individuals
Those receiving Social Security benefits and individuals on disability will receive a one-time payment of $250 in 2009.
Unemployed
Temporary suspension of taxation on unemployment benefits. The jobless get a little more help with a $25 increase in weekly benefit checks through 2009 and suspension of federal tax on the first $2,400 of unemployment benefits received in 2009.
First-time home buyers
First-time home buyer credit increased to $8,000 for qualified first-time home buyers purchasing homes after Dec. 31, 2008 and before Dec. 1, 2009; repayment requirement waived unless sold or no longer principal residence within 36 months.
College-bound
The "American Opportunity Tax Credit" - an enhanced Hope Credit that provides 100% credit for the first $2,000 and 25% for the next $2,000 on qualified expenses such as tuition and books; the credit is 40% refundable, meaning even taxpayers who have no tax liability can receive a credit for 40% of qualified education expenses, up to $1,000.
" - bamatime, on 02/17/2009, -12/+22Slick liberal web design meets neanderthal republican ideals. i think the contradiction is enough to make my browser explode!
- inactive, on 02/17/2009, -3/+13You forgot Clinton!
Among his biggest strokes of free-wheeling capitalism was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, a cornerstone of Depression-era regulation. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article ... - Harangutanon, on 02/17/2009, -21/+31Shiftgood, how could it be a good thing for Congress to give taxpayers' money to crappy businesses and corrupt governments?
You also erroneously conflate the stimulus package that Obama's signing today with the bailouts.
Perhaps you're a member of, as you put it, 'the ignorant part of the public.' - Meekus, on 02/18/2009, -0/+10Last government? What, we have a new one now?? I can care less who is steering the ship. The point is that I think we are on the Titanic.
- TSK05, on 02/18/2009, -3/+12Last government? Like under articles of confederation?
- Exilon, on 02/17/2009, -6/+15The calculator is a quick, infuriating reminder of just how easy it is to fool a bunch of people into oversimplifying an issue.
- theokandroid, on 02/17/2009, -11/+20This is propoganda in the worst way. Note that they mark the cost of the Iraq "Invasion". They don't continue it to our present cost which is much closer to 3 trillion. And I'd much rather pay the cost to fix this economy than living through a depression that would hit me a lot harder.
- JediPii, on 02/18/2009, -4/+13Actually, someone did take the time to figure out the cost of inaction. The Congressional Budget Office. Maybe you've heard of them.
Here's a tasty excerpt: CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.
Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cb ...
So Captain Smarmy, I guess you didn't see that coming, did you? Understand that the government cannot solve our problems, but it can certainly cause, or worsen them. - monkeypoptarts, on 02/17/2009, -3/+12I got a vasectomy. Check and mate, US government.
- hivoltage815, on 02/18/2009, -0/+9They are just harvesting information probably.
Hey, interesting fact, so far a web petition has a more viable business model than Twitter.com and Tumblr.com combined! - d3sapar3cid0, on 02/18/2009, -0/+9The calculator also seems to think that college tuition is far cheaper than it actually is.
- insomniacal, on 02/17/2009, -4/+12McCain supported bailouts, too. That's why I voted Libertarian.
- elTito, on 02/18/2009, -6/+14See, a sane person would look at the cost of the Iraq conflict and say, "Jesus that was expensive. We need to make drastic cuts in spending dig ourselves out of this financial hole."
But the real lunatics out there (you, for example)) turn it around and attempt to use it to justify more spending. - ousthouse, on 02/17/2009, -3/+11Senator Obama voted for the bailout you're talking about.
- faskill, on 02/18/2009, -1/+9@izolutionz - republicans messed up by ignoring average americans? are you talking about the TARP/Bailout that was passed by a democratic controlled house and a democratic speaker? I'm not saying it's a democrat or republican caused problem, I'm just looking for clarification.
- nkassi, on 02/18/2009, -1/+9their bonuses depend on repaying ;p
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