What is Digg?171 Comments
- Bellyache5, on 07/07/2008, -9/+92In other news: 98% of Americans don't know what a recession is. And neither do 100% of CNN.com editors.
A recession is a specific economic scenario defined as two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth, generally measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Last quarter, U.S. GDP grew by 1%. The quarter before that, GDP grew by 0.6%. The U.S. hasn't even had ONE quarter of negative economic growth, much less two quarters. That's not to say that the economy is great, or that positive GDP growth will continue in the future. But the numbers don't support the current claim of recession.
Of course, the reason that 75% of Americans "think the economy is in a recession" (from TFA) is because 100% of the news media is bombarding Americans with doom and gloom economic scenarios. When the average American sees every single news broadcast warning him about how the U.S. is on the brink of the next Great Depression, he's naturally going to be pessimistic.
As usual, blame the "news" media. - inactive, on 07/07/2008, -16/+51Amazing how Bush gets blamed for everything when the Congress actually controls most things domestically. Of course, the liberals omit this since Congress has an approval in the low teens. And where are our two candidates from: Congress. Oops.
- kylesellers, on 07/08/2008, -2/+33It doesn't matter whether 1% or 100% of people SAY we are in a recession, there is a criteria for whether or not we are in a recession. That criteria is 2 quarters of negative economic growth. We have not met that criteria.
I find in frustrating that rather that this is even a CNN news story. POLLS SHOULD NOT BE NEWS. News should report facts, NOT feelings.
A better spin--it this is true, I'm not arguing one way or another, I am arguing that this is shoddy journalism--would be "Current trends show the USA will be in recession in XX months," or "Economic growth slowing, but not yet to the point of recession." - jbenson2, on 07/07/2008, -13/+38What do you expect. It is a CNN poll.
Based on CNN's biased agenda, I am surprised it is only 75%. - Infidelcastr0, on 07/07/2008, -22/+46I see a quarter of the country is still in denial, see: Bush's approval ratings.
- thebaron2, on 07/08/2008, -1/+213/4ths of the population doesn't know the definition of recession - just like they don't know the definition of THEORY as used in "theory of evolution."
A recession, by definition, is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. There's debate as to whether or not that definition should be refined, but as it stands right now that's the definition. I don't know why people are getting buried for this - open up an econ book and look it up. - psiege, on 07/08/2008, -1/+18Actually, a new poll today showed Congress' approval at around 9%!
- TGMD, on 07/08/2008, -5/+20Who gives a ***** what the people say?
Economics doesn't work that way. The IMF says we're in a recession, not the people.
You can't vote on the sex of a rabbit. - EvansHall, on 07/08/2008, -1/+16@Bellyache5
"Two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth"
Yup, this is what they teach you in undergraduate economics and what most people use as a definition for a recession. The problem is, how do we measure economic growth? We used to use GNP, until 1991, when rising U.S. international debt costs made the narrower GDP assessment more palatable. The GDP has been subject to many further fiddles, the most manipulatable of which are the adjustments made for the presumed starting up and ending of businesses (the "birth/death of businesses" equation) and the amounts that the Bureau of Economic Analysis "imputes" to nationwide personal income data (known as phantom income boosters, or imputations; for example, the imputed income from living in one's own home, or the benefit one receives from a free checking account, or the value of employer-paid health- and life-insurance premiums).
During 2007, imputed income accounted for some 15 percent of GDP. John Williams, the economic statistician, is briskly contemptuous of GDP numbers over the past quarter century. "Upward growth biases built into GDP modeling since the early 1980s have rendered this important series nearly worthless," he wrote in 2004. "(T)he recessions of 1990/1991 and 2001 were much longer and deeper than currently reported (and) lesser downturns in 1986 and 1995 were missed completely."
More info here for the curious: http://www.shadowstats.com/article/57 - NCSD, on 07/08/2008, -2/+14"Wikipedia"
that is all. - chispito, on 07/08/2008, -3/+14I'll refrain from using the same spicy language as others here, but it's not a recession till there is negative growth. I'm sure said recession is inevitable in the coming quarters, but just because people think it's happened doesn't mean it has.
- mciampa1214, on 07/08/2008, -3/+14That or only one quarter of American's know the actual definition of a recession... not just believe whatever they hear on the evening news.
- Laminar, on 07/08/2008, -4/+15I believe it is more a case of the Fed thinking "This, a recession? You ain't seen nothing yet." Scary...
- relic180, on 07/07/2008, -1/+12I was going to digg you for the first part of your post, but then the stupid ***** in your second paragraph popped up and and had to bury. "Wait it out?" "Queerbag"?!? Give me a ***** break.
- seantubridy, on 07/08/2008, -1/+11I don't want to know what thousands of stupid people think. I just want to hear what the few smart people know.
- inactive, on 07/08/2008, -2/+12Gas prices go up, which causes everything else to go up around you, except your pay check. Thats why americans haven't bought as much compared to a year ago
- Cuchanu, on 07/08/2008, -2/+11You are absolutely right about Americans thinking we are in a recession because the media bombards us with talk about the "recession." But on the same hand there are people like me who can see it affecting our paychecks either way. Businesses are afraid to spend money, whether or not that fear is justified it's there.
- mogebier, on 07/08/2008, -3/+11If we were really in a recession, we would all be *****. And not in a good way. In the bad way. This is more of a "correction" than a recession. People are still buying things. There is not runaway inflation. We aren't all worried about our jobs being lost.
This isn't a recession, as recessions go. - Miraa, on 07/08/2008, -7/+153/4 of Americans are wrong. Probably the same 3/4 that are going to vote for Obama.
- kylesellers, on 07/08/2008, -2/+9What energy policy? Our energy policy for the last 30 years has been to stick our fingers in our ears and say "Lalalalala." And then, when things get tough, we go tell everyone else to increase their production, but refuse to increase our own because our land is prettier (essentially).
It'll take 10 years to pull a drop of oil out of the tundra? That's because of all the bureaucratic red tape and environmentalists hoops that must be jumped through. - LastVisibleDog, on 07/08/2008, -2/+9Recessions are not determined by polls.
So far we are not in a recession (that does not mean things are hunky dory) - chispito, on 07/08/2008, -0/+7If anything it's a poll of how ignorant people are of economics. "Recession" is objective and doesn't depend on opinion.
- cheezintern, on 07/08/2008, -0/+7Exactly, we're more or less in a slow down than a recession. Compared to '87 for example, this is nothing.
- Naieve, on 07/08/2008, -0/+6You mean the War Congress approved, even though high ranking Democrats had all the information Bush did?
Both sides of the aisle made a mistake thinking we had the will to win a protracted conflict.
Only one side turned around and used it for political profit.
FYI, I'm voting for Obama, because of his track record in Illinois and the Senate.
Oh and our energy policy is decided by Cheney and big oil?
Cheney wasn't even in office when our energy policy was decided.
I'm done writing, this is pointless. - LastVisibleDog, on 07/08/2008, -14/+20We aren't in a recession MORON! No matter how much you WISH it was true.
Maybe we will be - maybe we won't
100% Infidelcastr0 is an idiot when it comes to economics - ravenpen, on 07/08/2008, -0/+5I think the reason so many people think we're in a recession is because of their personal situation.
If you're doing well and have extra cash for luxuries then I'm sure the economy seems great to you. If you're struggling to make ends meet and being asked to do more and more work for the same, or marginally increased, pay year after year then I'm sure the econonmy feels like it's in a downward slump. Unfortunately more and more people, myself included, find ourselves in the latter category.
It's all about perception. - ericjohnson0, on 07/08/2008, -3/+8Blah...
Two sliding sectors do not a recession make- Anatole Kaletsky
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnist ...
Leftwing Economic Fearmongering? Epic Fail. US NOT in Recession
http://thesaloon.net/blog/_archives/2008/5/29/3718 ... - Hangly, on 07/08/2008, -1/+6It doesn't matter if CNN says there is a recession, and it doesn't matter if a bunch of blowhards on Digg say there isn't. The economy is what it is, and labels don't make a damn bit of difference.
Call the economy a chocolate eclair if you want. The dollar is still dropping like a stone, the debt is still growing beyond all bounds and the price of oil is still skyrocketing.
Bretton Woods II started to break down two years ago when China allowed the Yuan to float. If you know anything about what has been keeping the American economy stable for the past 70 years, you know that's not a good thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system
"Bretton Woods II", unlike its predecessor, is not codified and does not represent any kind of a multilateral agreement. It contains the following key elements:
* The United States imports considerable amounts of goods, particularly from East Asian export-oriented economies such as China, Japan and various other Southeast-Asian countries.
* Since China and Japan don't have much demand for U.S.-produced goods, United States runs large trade deficits with both countries.
* Under normal circumstances, trade deficits would correct themselves through depreciation of the dollar and appreciation of the yen and the renminbi. However, Chinese and Japanese governments are interested in keeping their currencies low with respect to the dollar to keep their products competitive. To achieve that, they are forced to buy large quantities of U.S. treasury securities with freshly-printed money. - Fordi, on 07/09/2008, -3/+8If you adjust for inflation, growth is negative.
- evilbob333, on 07/08/2008, -0/+5In other news 3 out of 4 Americans don't know what a recession is (two consecutive quarters of negative growth).
- tweedius, on 07/08/2008, -0/+5Those numbers are correct.
http://www.bea.gov/
Why do people like to believe whatever they want and never check things out for themselves? - BlackJackJester, on 07/08/2008, -2/+6sounds more like 75% of Americans blindly believe everything they read and hear, while ignoring the fact inflation is still only at 4%, the GDP is growing, the weaker dollar is a boon to foreign investors and American exports, and the entire tech sector is wholly unaffected.
- twomeyw23334, on 07/08/2008, -3/+7You are supposed to ignore it when environmentalists and leftist cause higher energy prices (it's actually a good thing then) and only get pissed when Bush and the right warmongers do it.
It's especially fun to say things like "we went to war for cheap oil!!!!" followed by "bush is to blame for our high prices damnit!!!!"
Get with the digg program kylesllers. - inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4 The poll is relevant in that the American people are feeling some economic pain. Are you spending as freely as you used to?
- yomamaphat, on 07/08/2008, -1/+5Buried for queerbag... and that only.
- wzpgsr, on 07/08/2008, -2/+63/4 of Americans think a recession is what happens after you can't see your own belly button anymore.
- Lowrads, on 07/08/2008, -0/+4Easy way to check. Just examine the adjustment in the PPI from year to year.
- dnnr, on 07/08/2008, -0/+4Yeah, that's not subjective *SARCASM*
Let's just stick with the real definition instead of pandering to the NBER, whoever the hell they are. - sensical, on 07/08/2008, -1/+5Trying to sum up the entire country's economy with a single figure is way too simpleminded. If the top 5% who account for 83% of GDP experience 5% growth, which makes 4.15% of the GDP, and the 95% who account for the other 17% experience a 10% decline, which is 1.7% of the GDP, then economic growth would be 2.45%, but pretty much everyone would be experiencing economic recession.
- richmomz, on 07/09/2008, -1/+4If you accept the official government statistics on economic performance, unemployment and inflation then I think YOU are the moron.
- Cuchanu, on 07/08/2008, -1/+4You are whining about people whining douchebag.
- LD1o1, on 07/08/2008, -1/+4Even if this is fueled by the media, and we technically aren’t in a recession, perception is reality.
One of the biggest problems with Bush & co. is their inability to effectively communicate to those whom he/they represent. The president has the ability and channels to get a message out, but fails to on many topics. Even if he does care about issues which affects “We the people”, he doesn’t seem to show it. He rarely shows humility, so he doesn’t get it.
So… 75% of the people have the perception we are in a recession may be technically wrong. To those of you who have the prowess to understand that we aren’t actually in recession, is it really a surprise that so many do? Maybe the spirit of ignoring the facts is growing strong. - richmomz, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Of course. The government would never mislead the public.
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3 This is the key point that everyone seems to miss.
- WalkerTXclocker, on 07/08/2008, -12/+15From Wikipedia:
However, there are differing definitions: In the United States, the National Bureau of Economic Research's (NBER) Business Cycle Dating Committee ultimately decides whether the economy has fallen into a recession. The NBER defines a recession as "a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production and wholesale-retail sales." - earlycj5, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Ok, so I don't think anyone said the economy was all peaches and cream. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not a recession. That's the issue being flaunted in this article by CNN, incorrectly, not whether the economy is poor. It's not semantics, it's just incorrect.
- restlessmouse, on 07/08/2008, -0/+3There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Below that, survey results.
I suspect most of those people think a recession is defined as "A time when I had to deny myself something due to concerns about possible future financial hardship".
Either the economy is contracting or it isn't. If the rough measurements used to determine this are inconclusive, we can say the economy is "stagnant".
If it was simply a matter of personal circumstances, people who are losing jobs and homes should call it a "depression". Personally I have had to deny myself a quality metal detector and have to keep using my crappy Radio Shack detector I bought at a pawn shop. Damn recession. -
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