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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+55Not that I condone copyright violations or anything, there were some less-than-scrupulous people that I knew in college that would chip in $10 to one guy that would go to the bookstore, buy a textbook, scan every single page in, save it as a PDF, return the book, then give a copy of the book to anyone that paid him. If you weren't in the "Pre-pay" group, it would cost you $20 for a copy of the PDF. Apparently it was a pretty daunting task requiring 8-12 hours for some books (including beer and bathroom breaks, of course.
That being said, it should be more than obvious that if someone is willing to put in that much time to avoid paying $100-$300 for a book that will possibly see little to no use, there's a big problem in the bookstore system. - zirtbow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39When I was in my last year if college I -HAD- to buy a book that cost $280. It was a 'new' edition and there really wasn't any alternative. When I went to sell it back they gave me $20 for it. I didn't think until later that day I probably should have just kept that book out of pure spite.
What always threw me for a loop at our book store was that they resold the used books for just as much as the new books. EXACTLY the same price... so it didn't matter if you got a new or used one. Just if you were late buying the books all that would be left was the used copies. So that book I sold back to them for $20... I guarantee you they resold it again for $280.
So really.. I have no sympathy for bookstores... more power to the people doing what they can to avoid getting these books. - fletchowns, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42I wish they would just sell PDF's for like less than half the price. That would be a LOT better. Printed books are so 20th century. I spent over $600 on textbooks last semester and they bought back $60 worth. What a ***** joke.
- jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30"its a supply and demand system,"
It's not a supply and demand system...it's a captive audience. The students often (except if the score online) have no other competitor to go to so the publisher/store can name what ever price is the max the students would pay. This is a different thing then just supply and demand. It's closer to a communist system...the population is forced to buy at the mandated price. - OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26Good for them, i got ***** when I went to college. I went to a tech school so they really screwed us. If we knew better would could have gotten the books for half the price at Amazon.com
- rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Personal horror story:
My first semester freshman chem book was $130. It wasn't a particularly good book, but it was selected because the profs thought the supplementary material provided on the included CD was really useful. However, the CD also included the entire contents of the textbook, so the bookstore refused to buy back (let alone accept returns) for any book in which the CD envelope had been opened, since the CD could have been copied (i'll spare you my feelings about the stupidity of that policy). Thus, no one opened the CD or used the supplementary material that was the basis for the textbook being selected. Then, because everyone hated the book, the profs chose a different book to be used the next semester for frosh chem 2, so not only could we not sell the book back, opened cd or not--since no one would ever be using the book again, but we had to buy a second $130 text the next semester. - iBookG4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Text book price lobbying is big, at least in Washington. Students are raped up the ass for one book that they'll use for 3 months, and then sell back for 1/2 the price. Then you've got publishers now packaging text books with their "workbook" or "supplementary CD" and then jacking the prices up for that.
Schools should just rent out textbooks. We already shovel them $15k+ a year... - sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Goon on them! I have been stooping to photocopying and downloading books to avoid ridiculous costs.
- TheWalkingDude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15In Richard Feynman's book, "Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman!", he talks about his time served selecting new text books with the California State Curriculum Commission. He said something to the effect that he was the only one to actually read the books, and that most publishers were selected based on who gave the best gift basket. In one instance where two publishers were in deadlock, one of the publishers found out and instantly lowered their asking price by thousands. When asked how that was possibly, since they had already stated that they were offering the lowest price possible, they claimed to have made a calculating error with the cost of binding (yeah right).
- superbonbon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I don't know if this particular lawsuit has any merit, but I understand where the frustration comes from. I'm particularly annoyed by the "new edition" scam. I had a professor who was so riled up by this practice of financially raping students that he took his own time to go through the "new edition" (which most often had the same content, but rearranged so that the page numbers would come out differently) and he handed out a "decoder" of sorts which basically told you what page to find the assignment info depending on which edition of the book you had. He did this so that we can buy the old edition (which could be had for a few bucks on-line since they weren't being bought back by the school bookstore and supposedly obsolete - even though the content was almost identical). He would do this for the past 5 editions back, which was amazing because it must have taken him days to flip though 5 500+ page text books to sort out the info and type it up for us, he would also supplement the scant new content of the new edition. He was so hardcore against the school bookstore that he didn't want us to purchase books from them because they were in his opinion, "anti-student". They had a policy of always ordering less books then the number of students enrolled in the class, because they do not want to be burdened with left over books that could not be sold next semester, which resulted in about 20% of students unable to even purchase the required texts. I used an old edition that I found for practically free (and he was right, all the content was identical save for a few illustrations that weren't relevant and the page numbers were slightly off) and I saved $120.
- jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16This should have happened 20 years ago. The college book industry is like a company store or popcorn at a movie theater. ***** em' and I hope these kids win. In fact I hope they get sued into the ground and get some fair competition.
- jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15"There are exceptions, but text books are generally expensive because a lot of work goes into making them,"
Yeah, like reprinting new additions every semester or so, so they won't buy them back. Again, I would be lucky to get 10 dollars for a book. They are price-fixing for sure...at least on the large campus that I went to. According to your logic, it seems that books would cost 300-400 dollars in on research books at Barnes-Noble. They don't because their isn't a guaranteed buyer, nor competition. It's a total racket. - chaos86, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Well unfortunately none of the less-than-legal methods above work anymore, because book publishers have found a new way to screw us. Online components.
A lot of the books now come with a unique serial number, which can be used to make one account for the online part of a class, which of course includes quizzes and tests so you have to do the online part. That means that your book wont even sell for $20 any more because the code has been used, and you have to buy new at the start of each semester.
Why does half the world give us student discounts, and the other half exploits students for all they're worth? - readyman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Buy a used book on Amazon for 1/2 of the price.. then sell them again. Works almost every time.
- garyh84, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10What I thought was hilarious was when I was at a Junior college all my books cost around $150-200. Then at the University they were near $600. Even when looking at the prices of the exact same books used in both the Junior college and the University... the Universities books were 2-3 times the price.
- jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"and then sell back for 1/2 the price."
1/2??
You got lucky. Where I went it would be about $10 on a $300 book in the rare instance that they didn't just publish the newest biannual addition, and therefore it was "outdated". - habubu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11How often does a calculus book, or a foreign language book need to be updated?
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9And here I was thinking $50 (about $35 US) Australian was expensive. You poor bastards. You always know its a scam when one of the writers is your lecturer and theres a new edition every year so you can't use a second hand one.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10bastards.
buy a highlighter, and mark them yourself :) - sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Sharing doesn't work, if you are in the same class, your colleague will need the book for homework etc, and will eventually get annoyed at you for pinching the book all the time.
Because i am studying Multimedia, most of my books can be downloaded, which is great. Scanning or photocopying takes way to long, but is worth it if you are in a large class and it's a team effort. - rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8the key words are "relatively few copies are sold."
It may seem like a lot of copies are getting sold when there are 500 people lining up to buy the same book, but that only happens two weeks out of the year and only at campus bookstores. If the technical books you see at barnes and noble sold in the same numbers as most college textbooks, B&N wouldn't bother stocking them.
I'm not talking about Resnick, Halliday, & Krane's "Physics" that is used by damn near every physics department in the country, and has been for the past 30 years. I'm talking about the generic "American History" text that has to compete with 200 other texts covering the same material and will ultimately only end up being used by a few dozen campuses. Far and away, most textbooks fall in the latter category. I know a lot of profs who have written and published textbooks (a few of which are very good), and none of them are getting rich off of it. - middleman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Wait to buy even so a teacher might open a book once the entire semester. Really pisses me off when a teacher doesn't even use a book that I spent $70 or so on. I swear the only reason they are required to have a book is because the school says they have to.
- oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You could also try:
(1) buying water-damaged books from Amazon (or Amazon.co.uk or other international sites)
(2) Sharing books with classmates
(3) Hosting study sessions (my roommate picked up a number of expensive books that way).
I got reamed in school by the cost of books (I didn't follow any of the three aforementioned rules). My roommate, however, made out like a bandit. He actually profited from college books (between free/cheap purchases and buybacks/sales). - definiteform, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It's also possible to not buy. Depends on the class. I have a 97 in a class that I haven't even opened the textbook for, but an 85 in one I read at least twice a week.
I usually wait to buy books as late as I can to see if the book is relevant but I didn't this semester. - heinzanova, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Some times buying on Amazon and reselling as used to book store was for the win all around.
- EnjoyTheFact, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"...overcharging students pennies on each used-book sale..."
Ah, the old Superman 3 tactic. - j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Or how every other semester at my school there seems to be a new edition of a Calculus book. How often does Calculus change? We compared the pages from the editions and for the most part (sans a few words and examples) the copies were basically the same. There were a few chapters moved around, but besides that, the content had not changed.
- Jacobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's awesome!
In most of my classes, I tend to buy older editions of books and work out the page numbers myself. For a history class, there isn't going to be much difference between volume 6 and volume 8, except volume 6 costs $14.75.
I had a Spanish class that used a really old textbook. Brand new the book went for $98, but I was able to find it on half (along with a lot of my classmates) for $.75.
Online buying is definitely the way to go. The only issue is if you get the book in a timely fashion when dealing with eBay and half.com. - nathanlandis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Good for those student's. Hopefully they'll be able to afford some grammar book's to learn how to properly use apostrophe's.
- itsxtian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5LA Times opinion letter about rising textbook costs:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/letters/la-le-sunday12.3nov12,0,6799932.story?coll=la-news-comment-letters - elfuego, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Textbooks aren't overpriced... for the amount they sell and the amount of work going into producing them... it's legit.
HOWEVER... putting out new editions, with little to no added value, at every opportunity, just to screw students out of the ability to resell books? That's not cool.
The case has merit, since they do seem to be screwing with the book prices. - po43292, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is exactly why I never sold my books back to the college bookstores, and usually bought them used online when I could - bestbookbuys.com.
I kept most of my books, but a couple I sold on textbookx.com for a lot more than the campus bookstore was willing to give me.
Good to see somebody standing up to this crap. Gone on long enough! - evileyetmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I had a Business Stat teacher who is now replacing the textbook with his own notes, so that future students don't need to buy the textbook that we never even opened over the course of the semester.
Studer-Ellis FTW
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/sep2006/bs20060920_063198.htm?chan=bschools_undergrad+--+favorite+professors_favorite+professors - jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Freaking honestly, it doesn't even cost a few hundred dollars to produce a book let alone pay for rights & such."
No, and often grad students or phd students or professors will write the books for nothing, or the rights go to the school which usually then get passed to a private company (because they "donated the lab"). - ryodoan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The bookstores near my school have started marking the books they sell and they only buy back books with their marks on them...
- francphysic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@LostTopics
You know how many people chose their school based on the price of books?? No one. Tuition price maybe but I don't know a single person that looks up the price of the books before applying there.
And it isn't a supply and demand system. It's all artificial. You have to have that book for that class. If anything the university and the publishers are colluding with each other. You might get lucky and the professor will chose something from Dover Publishing. On top of that the publishers are trying to eliminate the secondary used book market by making a new edition almost every year with very little change to the subject matter and then the schools require this new edition. There's also other things like bundling them with CD's so you can't sell them back to the school if it's missing. - Spacejack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The research and development might be legit, but printing a Sherman Tank of a book for an edition that'll be outmoded in two years is not. Those steel-reinforced covers and high-density pages are for high school textbooks to be shared by students; many collegiate texts don't require that kind of physical life (I'm looking at you, needless cultural updates for language classes!). A cheap black-and-white paperback on newsprint would serve the college student far better in most cases.
- EricPeters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In my Advanced Physics class, we use a college textbook. My teacher told me that over the summer he was ordering more books, and the salesperson asked if he wanted the college or high school edition. Wanna know what the differences between the two were? The high school version was the exact same book, only cheaper and had a stronger binding. Wtf is up with that?
- irieKEN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The two schools that I have attended (and my wife's school) put a barcode on the inside of the books they sell, and refuse to buy them back unless the sticker is there. They will offer to buy the book at paper value though.
Buying over Amazon is definitely cheaper than buying on campus (except that publishers purposely change the problems in programming + math books so that you can't use the previous edition). - tmilam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It doesn't look like any students stand to profit from this lawsuit (maybe some will see a check for a few dollars), but the /real/ victory would be more affordable textbooks.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Did you READ the article? Because the case has nothing to do with price gouging. And if what the students claim is true, they DO have a case. But only becuase it DOESN'T have to do with the prices of a new book.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Is everybody forgetting the Print-On-Demand system that now exists?
If there aren't enough copies sold to make a profit from at reasonable prices, then the book makers should invest in a POD system! Any book maker not doing that is clearly exploiting the serious lack of choice every student faces regarding overpriced textbooks.
Print-on-demand books costs well under $10/copy to produce. Why aren't the universities buying their own POD systems and making a small amount of profit out of this situation themselves?? - Mysk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Being someone who is currently attending a university I would just like to say that these two have the right idea.
One of my instructors is doing nearly 100% of our course work through Power Point presentations because the book for the class is so damn expensive that a number of the students simply couldn't afford it.
The book gives one an edge, but it hasn't been needed for the course thanks to the PPT files. - LosingTheFight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm just gonna throw this out there, even though I completely agree with them:
There are schools that allow students to not use ANY textbooks and instead rely on readily available internet resources. For example, the school that I am finishing my degree in is Touro University International. It's an online-degree and they send you a course CD with all of the material you need. The CD is included in the cost of tuition. I think more schools need to go this route. - greg9683, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Amazon and Half.com are very valuable tools for a college student. I saved so much money buying and selling there then I ever would have at the college book store.
It's nice to see some teachers who look out for the students though. I've seen a trend towards them helping out. In a lot of my classes over the past few quarters, i've had a lot less books. Or if they pick books, they are paperback. - ketemphor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I had a campus bookstore kick me out a few years back for copying ISBN numbers so that I could order the texts on Amazon. Mind you, the bookstore was inside a campus building and was the only place you could go to find out what texts you needed before class started.
I wound up getting the ISBN's after complaining to the school administrators, but the freaking chutzpah of some of these companies is unreal. - Brodels, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3good for them, my ex was American and I spent a lot of time at her college, I also spent a semester in Canada where prices were similar and I couldn't believe how much it cost, as well as the fact two of them wern't needed and that in Canada they would only buy the book back if it was being used the very next semester and not if it was the one after. Here in the UK my total cost for books and reading material this semester has been £3 or $5.80 usd.
- vtlunchbox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i work for a follett bookstore and this is awesome. I kind of feel bad for kids when they have to buy those 130 dollar books. Good for them.
- bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I hope they win. I paid about 400 for books this semester from that bookstore, and its just a community college. 1/3 of the costs of my semester was books. Next semester I'm hitting Amazon and Half.com.
- diktator279, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, I refused to sell any of my books back to the school book store, I'd pay $250-$300 for an accounting "package", and they buy just the textbook back for 10 bucks, if that. Used books would sell for a 10% discount... So now my books hang out at my folk's house in boxes in their basement. (hehe, my old books are gamers)
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