What is Digg?238 Comments
- symbolicsorcery, on 07/10/2008, -2/+58Every credit card user would be wise to study up on these issues. There are many privacy rights that users don't know about that they end up giving up. Here's a summary of the list:
1. Unsigned Cards Are Not Valid And Merchants Can And Will Refuse Them.
2. The Maximum Liability For Unauthorized Use Of A Credit Card* Is $50 According To Federal Law.
3. Merchants Cannot Require You To Present ID, Unless Your Card Is Unsigned.
4. Merchants Cannot Require A Minimum Transaction Amount.
5. Merchants Cannot Charge A Surcharge For Using A Credit Card, However, They Can Offer A "Cash Discount".
6. Many Credit Cards Have Programs That Will Automatically Double The Manufacturer's Warranty And Other Excellent Benefits.
7. Merchants Are Not Allowed To Make You Give Up Your Right To A Chargeback.
8. Merchants Are Not Allowed To Place A Hold For The Estimated Tip.
9. If Merchants Suspect You Of Fraud They Are Supposed To Call With A "Code 10".
10. If Merchants Break These Rules, You Can Report Them To The Credit Card Company.
If anyone knows what a "chargeback" is, please respond. - gavin422, on 07/10/2008, -3/+45These are a lot of interesting points. Especially the liability ones.
I'm not sure I agree with the no-minimum rule, though. Having worked in retail, I know how much a credit card fee can skim off your profits, especially with very small transactions. Even though stores aren't allowed to have a minimum, I respect it anyway. - Phlogiston, on 07/10/2008, -5/+39This article is empowering customers and that is a beautiful thing. Next time I get a minimum charge, I may ask them about this. Yeah, that may make me the customer that is the dick, but I am not afraid of that.
- fornnwet, on 07/10/2008, -2/+34Agreed - to an extent. I guess what it comes down to is that I'm a consumer with the right to say "no, your minimum charge rule is fraudulent", and it's up to me to decide if I want to exercise that right. Now that I feel empowered, I'm going to base it on how I'm being treated by the establishment I'm at.
- Duncan3, on 07/11/2008, -1/+32Sucking 2-5% out of the economy right off the top - priceless.
- grodrigu, on 07/10/2008, -1/+32Just make sure you don't mind never eating there again at places with a minimum because they have the right to tell you "No Soup For You!".
- rubaaan, on 07/11/2008, -2/+31hmm i cant wait to use this against ticket master. they charge extra when you use a credit card. theyre out of their minds.
i remember buying a saves the day ticket
price: $15
after ''convenience'' fees and taxes: $32
+ like 2 bucks just cause i wanted to use my credit card.
WTF!!!!? thats more than twice the ticket price?
i ended up buying em at the door for 17. ***** ticketmaster. ***** them in their buttholes with 3 penises. - Sparky9292, on 07/11/2008, -0/+24I worked for a credit card processing center. A couple things you should know:
Visa hates people using cash. They get no cut of the transaction.
Visa's number one concern is brand name trust. They don't want anyone making Visa look bad. If you take your card, and it gets rejected by a merchant for purchases under $5.00, or some stupid made-up signature rule, Visa WANTS you to report that merchant. They want their cut and they want you to have the confidence that the card will work ANYWHERE the logo is posted.
If you call the number on the back of your card, The issuer will send a nasty-gram to the ISO (the people who sold the credit card terminal to the merchant), and either raise the interchange rates on the ISO or kick them off the VISA network. Generally the ISO will bitch out the merchant or punish them by raising the interchange rates even more!
The really unfair part is that small merchants don't get the really good deals on interchange rates that the big boys do. Look at McDonalds and Burger King.... they have great deals on small charges (less than $25) and they don't even require a signature.
So in essence, when Merchants accept an ISO and accept credit card transactions, they are making a deal with the devil, IMHO. - spvo, on 07/11/2008, -0/+23Yeah! It hardly seems like you can go out any more without people waving credit card merchant agreements in your face.
- petebert, on 07/11/2008, -1/+23so, you'll be standing at the counter drunk waving a credit card agreement around? you really think that will get you anywhere?
- gavin422, on 07/10/2008, -0/+22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback
Basically, it's the credit card cancelling a transaction and taking the money back from the merchant. - fornnwet, on 07/10/2008, -3/+25Bars are the worst when it comes to "forcing" a minimum amount on you. Next time I go out, I'm bringing a copy of the VISA merchant agreement with me. I'm sick of having to buy 4 drinks to use my card when all I want is one beer!
- kdmundrick, on 07/10/2008, -1/+23I can imagine a confrontation arising from scolding a merchant or trying to inform him/her of a Visa policy, especially the minimum charge rule. Many small shops in the city like to impose these, and I think consumers may be intimidated to confront the owners.
- Sparky9292, on 07/11/2008, -0/+19Don't try to waive your agreement. Simply call the number on the back of your credit card and report it. Visa issuers are really good at being total d*cks towards merchants that don't let customers use their credit cards.
- pin0chet, on 07/11/2008, -0/+18I've used my unsigned card over 300 times in 9 months and not ONCE has a merchant said anything. I think I've been ID'd maybe twice.
- Rikkochet, on 07/11/2008, -0/+16You could just as easily play by their rules and then call the credit card company and report them. They won't get fined or anything; they'll just get a call or a letter from the company reminding them that that's not permitted.
- kenplaysviola, on 07/10/2008, -1/+17There are a lot of restaurants in my area that say "$10 minimum charge for credit card use!" It's quite annoying!
- WalkerTXclocker, on 07/11/2008, -0/+16Great article but I have a stupid question...
What is the point of requiring ID for unsigned cards but if they're signed then its not allowed to ask for ID. I couldn't tell if the signatures match or not(unsigned cards). Not to mention my signature on my driver's license was written with one of those screens where you can't see what the hell your writing and is mostly just a squiggily line that looks nothing like my real signature. But if my card is signed then I automatically can't be using a fraud?
Maybe I'm missing something, but wtf? - cadmiumpaint, on 07/11/2008, -4/+20you're gonna be THAT guy.
- tnoy, on 07/11/2008, -0/+16We'll probably see a story about someone complaining about a retailer not taking their card that had "See ID" written on the back on the consumerist website tomorrow.
- mofw, on 07/10/2008, -2/+16Being asked for ID when using my credit card has always bothered me. Nice to know I needn't be bothered by that.
- Khast, on 07/11/2008, -0/+12"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason" is usually posted in stores. Unfortunately, if you try to complain about policies...they will most likely point to their sign, and bid you good day.
- akula89, on 07/11/2008, -0/+9also, if you try to do too many chargebacks (normally more than 1 per year) you are likely to be flagged by your credit card issuer as it could appear that you are trying to defraud merchants by initiating unwarranted chargebacks.
- maxlightz, on 07/11/2008, -1/+9When i was in San Diego 2 years ago just about every "tourist" related merchant required it mandatory to see ID with credit cards. The upside here is that if petty thieves know they will be checked for ID, then it stops the crime before it starts because they know the stolen credit card is useless to them.
As for the minimum transaction, some of the merchant plans have a flat fee per swipe and then a fixed percentage of the swipe amount. So for example every swipe costs $1.50 and then 3-5% of the keyed amount. So if I'm buying water and gum for $2.00, after the cost of the swipe and the cost of the inventory, the merchant LOSES money just for taking my business. That's not very American/capitalist so who can blame them?
Other merchant services will have a higher swipe cost but a much lower %. This particular benefits merchants with a larger average ticket size. - huff51, on 07/11/2008, -5/+13dugg for not excepting american express
- PhilLesh69, on 07/11/2008, -1/+8I didn't just work in retail. I owned a business about 10 years ago and had my own merchant account.
The transaction fees vary, depending on the credit rating of the business or the business owners, the volume of sales, etc. I paid about 2.75%, some were even paying 3.5%. A high volume business might only pay .75%.
BUT, you also pay a network fee, to use the processing network to charge the card. Back in 1998, I paid 25 cents to connect, and 10 cents per transaction. Since I was running an online CD store, I could run batches, so I would only get charged the 25 cent connection fee once and could charge as many cards during that connection. But at places like Subway where they connect and process one card at a time, they are paying (at least in 1998 fees) 35 cents per card, on top of whatever percentage they pay per transaction.
Rikkochet, I don't think it is just a matter of the staff not wanting to stand around waiting for a trans slip for a small cheque. Employees don't care what it costs. They get paid by the hour.
The business owner is the one who wants to keep his margins as low as possible, and processing a $1.00 charge for a product that cost him 60 cents becomes unprofitable, considering he's losing 35 cents plus .75 - 3% of the $1.00.
It isn't very profitable to sell an item that costs 60 cents, that sells for $1.00, if you lose up to 38 cents just to accept payment. - devin_mm, on 07/11/2008, -1/+8@CosmicJustice
Credit cards have 22% interest rates?!? I had no clue I just pay mine off every month and they keep saying I have no interest, maybe my credit card company are idiots and don't know about this.
Seriously though I use my credit card for everything, I love my reward points, you have no transaction fees, and it's much safer than say if someone stole your debt pin. There is no downside to using your credit card. - qwertydvorak, on 07/11/2008, -1/+8the issue with the card # showing up on the receipt has to do with the fact that it is not lawful for companies in the us to put the whole # on the receipt. only the last 4 digits are allowed. people all over the world can call americans stupid, but it sounds like they are being proactive about identity theft and credit card fraud.
this thinking isn't necessarily because it affects them directly, they know that the bank will pay them back. this is because they understand the costs it has to society and their own personal hassle to deal with straightening out the problem. - PhilLesh69, on 07/11/2008, -0/+7They aren't free for the business accepting them, and they aren't free for the person making the charge.
But it is free money for Visa and all the banks that process credit cards.
Not to mention, the "minimum monthly payment" has been calculated to keep you in debt for over 40 years. - centran, on 07/11/2008, -0/+78) Merchants Are Not Allowed To Place A Hold For The Estimated Tip
I once had to void a CC transaction because the amount was wrong. The customer called back several hours later yelling at us that we charged her twice and we better fix it.
Since I voided the first transaction and rang up a new one, she had two authorizations on her CC and it was showing up under pending. I had to re-assure her that it would turn out fine once we transmitted our batch but she didn't want to believe us.
So I can defiantly see why they have this rule. Personally... I don't think CC should show customers their pending transactions but instead force merchants to submit their batch every day. The whole reason they show the pending is becuase some merchants wait a whole damn week to submit their batch so they can lump the small processing fee. If you can't afford to process your batch every day then you shouldn't take CC in the first place! - Speed, on 07/11/2008, -1/+8Great idea, act belligerent to a bartender. That won't get you kicked out.
/s
Also, unless you start a tab, why the hell would you pay with a CC? Would it really kill you to bring a fiver (or even a bunch of ones or quarters) if you're only going to buy one beer? - WELLDOITLIVE, on 07/11/2008, -0/+7Don't pay with a ***** credit card unless you plan on opening a tab. Which is usually not a good idea anyways.
- sporg, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6It makes no sense paying 15%-20% interest+ fees on purchases when you can use a debit card just as easily and be charged only for the item or service. Main reason people use credit cards so much is they are spending money they don't have.
- gavin422, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6Good points. Everyone here has just been assuming that credit cards are king, but really it's a lopsided balance of power between the credit companies and small businesses.
- Cassanova, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6that has to be one of the most creative cusses Ive ever heard
- jakejeffries, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6Right on! I completely agree! Batch transmission should be automatic.
- cam0man, on 07/11/2008, -1/+7Take out your phone and snap a pic of the sign. Tell them that it's against the merchant rules and you'll be reporting them. There's pretty hefty fines for violating the terms and they could even lose their merchant accounts all together. If they don't want to take your card, just report 'em and it shouldn't be an issue again.
Of course I'd feel like a real ***** if I tried to enforce any of the CC company rules on a merchant. - WalkerTXclocker, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6Um...your not allowed to write down their driver's license # for acceptance by Visa's rules anyways.
- Rikkochet, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6I'd love to know what states that law applies in.
In Canada it appears that the companies mandate ID checking (so I was told at a jewellery store today, anyways) - especially high risk businesses like electronics and jewellery. I was told Mastercard requires ID for every transaction and Visa requires it for any over $500.
Not that it seems to help any. My card is routinely declined and I get a call from the fraud dept because a suspicious purchase was being made.... Every time I make the same suspicious purchase amount (>$100) at the same suspicious computer store. Drives me nuts. - BaronSamedi242, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6It's like renting an apartment in Tennessee and paying a "non refundable deposit".
Isn't that a fee?
"No sir, it's illegal in the State of Tennessee to charge a fee, what we're doing here is a $700 deposit, $500 of which is a refundable deposit, and $200 of which is a nonrefundable deposit".
Companies will always find some way to get around a law or policy.... bastards. - Piggycow, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6They have minimums because it costs the place extra $$ to process a credit card. Merchants at flea markets and the sort always do it because otherwise it woudl cut into their profits. I am assuming the sushi place is a small family business so do you really need to be an ***** about it?
- onClipEvent, on 07/11/2008, -2/+8I work at a very busy location in Vancouver, Canada. We get all sorts of people from all over the world (if you've visited Vancouver, chances are you've seen us. The ONLY people that put "SeeID" or "CID" in place of a signature are Americans, absolutely no one else (not even Canadians). I can only suspect it's a cultural/word of mouth thing, where people are telling others to do that. That just reminds me, the ONLY people that get hyper-paranoid about their credit card numbers showing on the *merchants'* copy of the receipt are also Americans. (they like to scratch it off thinking we can't see it...erm, it's in our computer, or just hold it up in the light)
Okay, never mind what i said about the word of mouth thing.... Americans are just paranoid. - NonLeftistDiggr, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5How about for some of my fellow americans
The purchases you charge on the card are not free. - CosmicJustice, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5Good for you! You go exercise your "right" to borrow four bucks for a happy meal and finance it at 22%. That will show those fat cat corporations who's in charge here.
- shindig111, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5Is this list applicable only to US law? I am in India and I really hope they find some ground here too. Here in India, many merchants charge 2% extra if a credit card is used. Also, there is a minimum purchase amount for swiping your credit card.
Another interesting information. Merchants try to avoid VAT by not billing purchases. They tell you that if a credit card is used, they will need to charge 12.5% extra as well.
Indian merchants are the worst at exploiting for their own damn good. No wonder India is one of the most corrupt nations in the world. - theandy1, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5Haha
I didn't get it at first either, but the dictionary nazi that you owned made me look back at the article's pic. - inactive, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7I see it as picking your battles.
- rubaaan, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5take cash instead. DUH.
- Slovenian6474, on 07/11/2008, -0/+4@firestormfirestorm
Debit cards aren't protected by a pin number at most stores or online. They could be ran as credit and signature forged. Only place I've seen that requires to use the PIN is an ATM machine. - Speed, on 07/11/2008, -1/+5Even IF that "pimple-faced teenager" (and a clear skinned cashier, I do take offence to that) was smart enough to steal your identity, and could memorize your name, address, DOB, credit card number and expiry date in the five seconds they look at it, do you really think they'd want to? It's too much work. I ask for ID for large orders because I'm told to and because if I accept a fraudulent card, I get in trouble (since my employer loses money). I'm just trying to make enough money to avoid getting a student loan. Chances are: none of the cashiers you'll face give a ***** what your age is, where you live or any of that crap, they just want to get rid of you.
And don't bother flipping out on the person serving you if you don't like a store policy, ask for the manager and flip out on them. -
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