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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+69Give me a break. They could have gone for the last out with the batter they intentionally walked. If they would have gotten him out, then no big deal. If he would have walked (unintentionally), then no big deal. If he would have gotten a hit and gotten either thrown out or got on base, then no big deal. These coaches really screwed 2 kids here. The kid they walked intentionally got screwed because they robbed him the opportunity to make the play which is important at such a young age. And of course, the cancer survivor kid. I'm not saying he didn't have a chance to hit it. I wish he would have smacked in a run. I'm just saying that exploiting a weakness like that is pretty slimy.
If these coaches were on fire, I wouldn't piss on them to put them out. - snutz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+50"You should never coddle a child just because they are a child, the earlier they learn what life is like the more prepared they will be. If you coddle a child from age 1 to 18 then when they move out they will be hit with a sudden shock of something called "Life." "
As he says in the article, I don't think a kid who has had to deal with brain cancer from the age of 4 needs a lesson on how difficult life is. I'm sure his "shock of something called 'Life' is came a lot earlier in life than yours did. - orlyyarly, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28Seriously, ***** you.
- sola, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Yes, intentional walks are legal, but I think you missed the part that said that no one in the whole league in the whole season had been intentionally walked -- not a rule per se, but by doing so, the 2 coaches definitely made a statement about their view of winning.
- listrophy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+229 year olds, dude. 9 year olds.
The mere fact that the league requires zero preferential treatment--good or bad--towards anyone with a disability should make it abundantly clear: this league is not about winning. It's about playing baseball. If this were a cut league, with the best of the age group... say AAU (or whatever it's called), then this situation never would have come up. The kid wouldn't have been in the league because he wouldn't have been good enough.
Cripes, people. I play in an adult recreational softball league and people get pissed if you look for walks. Yes, some pitchers have a few bad pitches and you have to take a walk. But if you step to the plate looking for a walk, you're an *****. We're here to play the game. Not watch you let 1-inch-outside pitches hit the dirt. Now multiply that annoyance by about a million. That's how everyone on the field should have felt about the intentional walk.
And no. The cancer kid isn't supposed to be setup to win the game. He's supposed to be treated like any other player in the league. And TFA says that no intentional walks had been given... in the entire league for the entire season. By the rules or not, you just don't do that. - borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20"worst of all, guys who smoked in the public parks hosting the fields even though that was expressly forbidden."
How is the above worse than the below?
"There were guys who dropped f-bombs, guys who tried to game the rules and umpires to their advantage," - haystacker, on 10/12/2007, -12/+29No, give the coach a break. He intentially walked the best hitter on the team to get to the worst hitter on the team to win the championship. Boohoo. I find nothing wrong with this at all. In fact, I'll point out the things wrong with this biased media sob-story *****.
1. Why do you have your best hitter in the lineup followed by your worst hitter in the lineup? Manny Ramirez doesn't hit behind David Ortiz because he sucks ass.
2. OK. So, he intentially walked a hitter to get to a worse hitter. That's fine. He can still swing the bat, and if he hit at least a single, he would have won the game, and this would have never gotten to the news in the first place (well, maybe it would have, we all know how much the news likes to exploit cancer stricken children).
3. The coach stated he didn't know the child had cancer. Who cares? If he did know, then he would be giving him a chance at a cinderella story. Plus, if cancer survivers want to be treated like everyone else and not be treated as helpless, he should be proud to be have given the chance. If he didn't know, then the coach made a good move to win the championship for his team of little leaguers, who I'm sure are excited at the chance to even be in the series.
I empathize for this kid, but I don't feel sorry for him or anyone in this story. I find it hard to believe that the media can twist around an ordinary story into this unbelievable nonsense. I wish the kid luck with his cancer and hopefully this rubbish of news won't hinder his love of baseball. - danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24While it is true that this was a dumb decision on the part of the coaches. The situation would have been a lot better for all the kids involved if the parents in the field had treated it like a normal part of the game and not booed and made a big fuss about it in front of the kid with cancer. It is one thing as a kid for you opponents to think you are not as good as a teammate it is a whole different story when a huge group of adults start pointing that out. I would hope that people would have a little more tact then that. Go up to the coaches after the game and quietly express you disdain, but don't amplify the bad situation for the child.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+27Welcome to the Ayn Rand youth league.
- AZTriGuy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14@haystacker
I have to admit, as much as I feel bad for the kid who got struck out, you make very good points there. I was actually going to make the point that if the kid got a hit, or better yet, drove in the winning run, this would be a Cinderella story right up there with the autistic boy sinking 6 3-pointers a few months back. This didn't end up with a Hollywood ending like that (which will get it's Hollywood ending as they are writing the screenplay for it now) and everyone is pissed off. The intentional walk is an unfortunate reality in baseball, personally I don't like it as I feel it takes the competition out between a pitcher and the hitter, which is what the game is all about.
Now, the parts about the coaches dropping f-bombs and smoking on the field, that gets to me. As a father myself, with kids who repeat every word they say (in generally the most inopportune times, as well), this piece resonates with me for sure. - MrC539, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The intentional walk is a strategy to give a strong hitter a free base in order to face a weaker hitter. The argument is that it's wrong in a kid's league to walk someone intentionally to pitch to (and possibly humiliate) a weaker hitter.
- thenutty1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I think the idea is less about the second-hand smoke, and more about setting a good example for children. Not saying its any better or worse than "guys who dropped f-bombs, guys who tried to game the rules and umpires to their advantage", but the better the example we set for kids, hopefully the better the people they will one day become.
- EochaidRiata, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11They intentionally walked the guy that bats before the cancer kid.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+22You're an idiot. The only thing worse than what they did would have been to order to whiff the batter. Not everything needs to be a battle to the death. You don't take kids and apply economics to how you teach them -- this isn't mathematical.
People are supposed to be human, too. - billyliberty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11RTFA! This was the first intentional walk given in the entire league for the season! This isn't a normal part of youth baseball and something completely unnecessary for this type of game. These are 9 and 10 year old kids playing in a youth league where there are already limits on things such as stealing bases and runs per inning. Also, every kid gets to bat. EVERY KID. This may have been technically within the rules, but it doesn't sit well in common sense. Have any of you actually played little league? I never ever had a coach that would have pulled something like this and I had kids on my team who were less skilled but none of us ever griped about their playing time. The coaches here are completely cold and definitely major league *****.
The best quote from all of this, though, comes from the little boy who struck out:
"I'm going to work on my batting, then maybe someday I'll be the one they walk." - dkm201, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The world is a horrible, dog-eat-dog place. Can't we shield kids from it -- at least until they figure it out for themselves in high school?
- borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14i agree with cameron, but this is kids baseball and should have a friendly, not super competitive, feel to it.
- lerchmo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Crap that was a poorly written article.. I dont understand after reading the whole thing why it was bad to intentially walk him? is he unable to run bases? had he hit he would still have to run.. I dont get why walking him is a problem, free base is a free base. Someone please explain this!
- pendy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The kid with cancer wasn't the one walked, it was the hitter before him. The coaches walked the good hitter to face the weak one and humliate him.
- Nocturnal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7When I played in the PAL league back when I was younger, I had coaches just like this. They were verbally abusive to us, and I was only around 8-10 years old. I quit due to the coaching staff. There was this one coach who would physically abuse his own child in front of all of us. If he didn't do as he said, he would fly, I mean literally grab his kid and fly him because he was so irate. It was despicable and very disturbing to say the least.
- tito13kfm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The quote from the cancer surviving child certainly shows that at least the children are not all ***** like their coaches. It also shows that this kid knows he is not "special" and that in the real world you won't be given preferential treatment because you are different.
I applaud the children of both teams for acting more adult than the coaches did. Bravo little dudes! - LLXerxes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Go play in traffic.
- JFetch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I work in parks and recreation, and it's people like you that make my job difficult. Youth sports are for fun. They shouldn't be worried about winning until they play at school, or in a competitive travel league.
- ro2182, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6that's loser talk
- OswaldKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's because we're such a cocky society that everything we do has to be about outdoing the person next to us.
It's no longer about being the best YOU can be, it's about being better than someone else. - thenutty1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's not even about giving the kid a break. It's about playing Little League baseball. LITTLE LEAGUE. I could see something like this in High School, or even Jr. High maybe, but these kids are in 4Th or 5Th maaaaybe 6Th grade. That's a little early to be teaching kids the finer points of baseball strategy, especially when they are probably still learning most of the fundamentals. On top of that, they screwed not only the kid with cancer, but the kid before him too. Little League Baseball really shouldn't be that cutthroat....
- nethenm, on 04/01/2008, -1/+6This article sucks.. Why can't they just say in plain english what the hell happened instead of loading every paragraph with fill?
- jtmoulia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't want to ramble on philosophically, cause I suck at that, but you can be competitive and still have some ethics. Humanity is getting to be in short supply nowadays, and things like this won't inspire it in a new generation.
- Narpas, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10What Pavelft said, in a nutshell:
Children should be allowed to play, grow, and have fun. I hope your children DIE! - robwicks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It does seem a bit much to go into that much of the strategy with 9-10 year olds. I don't think I ever saw intentional walks until after kids hit puberty when I was playing. I don't know if this applies to the parents involved or not, so don't think of this as a specific knock against them, but I definitely note a lot more competitiveness among parent. They want to win at all costs and defend their children in ways which I find unseemly. There seem to be a bunch of dream deferred losers out there living vicariously through their children.
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The question is, which is worse - coaching the game as you SHOULD coach it by walking the better hitter, or deciding not to walk him just because you know the kid behind him is weak and somewhat handicapped? If you are involved in the game, be prepared to not get special treatment.
- sola, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Honestly, what's wrong with cutting the kid a break though? No one likes to be kicked when they're down, and if I was having it rough, I'd appreciate someone giving me a break once in a while. Life being tough doesn't mean kindness should be obsolete.
- zoombusa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4is it just me or was that story hard to follow?
- guice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not just you. The reporter wasn't very good. I had to watch the video to finally understand what really happened.
- ModernTenshi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5You're an ass CraigB12, and it's ***** like this that made me play baseball for only one year. Was my first year, and I was on a team with others who had been playing for, well, several years. Our coach ended up leaving for some reason, so one of the player's dad took up the position. This guy was a piece of work. He would switch the friggin' line-up; played favorites with the stronger players; and always, ALWAYS told me to not even SWING the bat until I got a strike, sometimes two strikes. What the ***** kind of coaching is that? All the other players also got to play different positions. Me? Right field the whole ***** season.
Yeah, I didn't play baseball again after that. - EochaidRiata, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Because second hand smoke causes asthma in children, lung cancer, breast cancer and heart disease. There is a reason it is banned in this children's park.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-08-smoking-breastcancer_x.htm - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -12/+15"I really don't see the big deal, either. Think of it this way: the sick kid would have been a hero if he had hit the ball, and striking out is just another part of the game. Mountain out of a molehill."
No, it's not mountains and molehills, it's much lower than that. It's a disgusting, slimy swamp of degraded ethics. These are kids, for chrissakes! And striking out on the last pitch of the last inning of the championship game is not "just another part of the game." He would have been the hero, but just as you imply, life doesn't work out like Hollywood endings, and these coaches are slimeballs.
I seriously hope they have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror. - Ub3rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Wrong. You play because of the love of the game. Winning is a bonus.
- mwilke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The handicapped kid should be grateful that he was treated like any other normal kid. He didn't get any favors because of his disability.
Granted, it is pony league and everyone should get a chance to play and bat. That kid said he is going to practice his batting (SI Magazine). So good did come of it. Should we be up in arms over this coaches decision? No. - Sagarian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The coach also robbed his pitcher of the opportunity to win a championship game by besting a strong hitter. Even though they won that kid would find that a hollow victory.
Reminds me of Karate Kid... "SWEEP THE LEG!" - tdp05, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Normally I'd agree, if this was a league where that was the intent, but it's not. They bat all the kids, regardless of whether they are good enough to be playing. I dont think I like those rules, because it doesn't motivate the kids to get better, but that's a whole other ballgame (see what I did there!)
In H.S or beyond little league, this isn't an issue because the weaker kid wouldn't have made the team, but this is something where everyone gets to play. Given that, do you play to win at all costs, even one's own integrity? - tofaroni, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Learning to deal with defeat is also part of the game. Granted forcing that on someone isn't quite ethical, but what if this kid never had cancer and was just bad at baseball? I don't think this would get the attention it did.
Yeah, this was a little shady and the coaches probably shouldn't have initiated the intentional walk, but I kids aren't stupid -- they know the game, too. Creating a force-out is something you learn pretty early on.
On a side note, why can't the media turn this into a good story -- one that tells how a young boy conquered cancer to be able to play baseball. Why do they have to pick out the negative!? - brtyler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't see any thing wrong with what the coach did. This is a competition if you don't want to compete don't play. If this were a pickup game in a park without any adults I think the kids would still walk him to improve their chances of winning the game.
To those that say this game is little league and shouldn't be taken so seriously; If the game doesn't matter then why do you care if they lost? Its just a little league game. - form3hide, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is 9-10 year old baseball. Winning games is great and all, but it's the second part of little league baseball. The first part is, and has always been, teaching team sports and helping along youth development in a society -- all while having fun.
These kids weren't getting paid to win. Neither were the coaches. Intentionally walk the best hitter? Regardless of who was on deck, I still would've boo'd the decision. Let your best pitcher face the best batter -- now thats some fun competition.
Lame. - netooi25, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is one of the most ridiculous rants I've ever seen. Cameron has it right on.. The media likes to make victims out of people so that everyone can go awwwwww, he deserves special treatment. OH MY!! THE KID HAD CANCER!!!(past tense mind you) So what?!! What does that have anything to do with the little league baseball game? The way the media is blowing this up the league MUST HAVE had special rules when you signed up that says you treat cancer patients this way, or maybe kids with a limp this way, or wait a minute, that kid has to wear glasses, lets throw the ball slower to him to make sure he sees it. I'm not saying i don't sympathize for a kid that has cancer, trust me, I do. However, the media and these people are using the phrase "a kid with cancer" to evoke undue sympathy and outrage in this situation. They are exploiting this kid to create an unhealthy attitude and teaching the rest of these kids very damaging lessons. The kids go out there to have fun, have competition. You don't give a special break to this guy or that guy because something that happened to him. They all get to enjoy and be a part of the same competition. Aww, poor Billy got grounded last week. We better give him a free walk. We don't want him to feel worse about him himself for striking out or getting an out. Giving people special treatment like this creates a society of people that believes they deserve things they haven't earned or worked for. Get over it. If the kid "deserves" or "needs" special treatment, his parents should NOT ever have allowed him to be in this baseball league. It is the parents fault if the kid's feelings get hurt and they cant handle it. If anything, an experience like this should be used to teach the kid that its ok if you fail sometimes in life, but you should always try your best. I'm sure the kid tried his best. Unfortunately, that is probably the last lesson the poor kid with cancer will learn because of all these media nut compassion entitlement freaks
- m8ymerc1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3wilf
Read the article again. It states that specific rules are taken out of the CHAMPIONSHIP game that are in during the reg. season.
Don't forget the team on the field at the time wanted to win the game also. Should they have said "AH forget it lets pitch to their best player whos kicked are but already so they can win. "
No they are not gonna say that because they want to win too. They have that right!
Would this even be an issue if they had pitched around the best player and then the weaker player struck out. NO it would not be an issue.
Take note this was the championship game. The coaches and clubs involved are playing to be number one in the league, PONY or not. If that wasn't the case then there would not have been a championship game played. The season would have ended after the last regular season game.
Oh by the way why would a coach bat the weakest player directly after the best player. hmmmm he prolly wanted to prevent such this from happening and his plan backfired. Just speculation. - tofaroni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Completely agree. Horribly put together.
- mattgo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here's a better article on the situation.
http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_4154850
Based on this more detailed article, the coaches made the right baseball move using the intentional walk in the correct situation, but they could have handled it better. The fact that the child had cancer shouldn't be an issue, he's on 1 of the top 2 teams. IMO, putting the "cancer victim" spin on the story takes away something from the kid. What the coaches should have done was a use the "Unintentional-Intentional Walk", kept the integrity in the game, and have some sympathy for a 9 year old kid that wasn't swinging the bat his best that night. - cameron074, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2it's msnbc. how are you surprised?
- dirtyfratboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This situation is kinda like the Zidane-Materazzi episode. Materazzi and the rest of the Italian team didn't have to harass Zidane on the last game of his life, but they did. And their taunts worked in the end. And they won.
There are definitely unwritten rules of sports. Either you care for them, or you ignore them and get the win. -
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