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Cleanest Diesels on Earth Coming to US this Fall (+Timeline)
gas2.org — Later this year we will finally begin to see an influx of new model diesels in the United States. These new diesels will get better mileage (up to 60 MPG) and have cleaner emissions than your average car. When exactly can we expect to see them? Check out this detailed timeline.
claybodie- 803 diggs
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- snowhite7185, on 05/21/2008, -1/+20Very cool. I'm excited to see these on the road! Now we need folks to forget their old ideas of dirty, black smoke spewing diesels in the days of yore.
- breadfred, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4Pfft. I used to drive a VW Passat Estate 1.9 liter. I got 55 MPG on the thing. That was 5 years ago. It was a bloody station wagon, not a small car. And now blagging about 60 mpg? Give me a break.
- NEUTRINO50, on 05/21/2008, -4/+4Diesel + electric hybrid: can haz?
- strangewill, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2Very not cool, Diesel is nearing $5/gallon.
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2But the added mpg still translates to more "miles per dollar".
For instance:
The sticker on the 2008 non-diesel Jetta says 29mpg highway. At the gas station I go to the most*, gas is $3.979 right now. To go 1000 miles, this car would use 34.48 gallons, which would cost $137.21.
My 1999 diesel Jetta usually gets 42-44mpg (but I got a ticket last month and have been driving slower. Surprisingly, that's bumped my mileage up to 47). The sticker said 49, but that was before EPA changed their guidelines. Diesel at the same station is $4.459, for exempt semis. Cars pay 6% more. - we'll round up to $4.729. So using the 44mpg for my car, it takes me 22.73 gallons to go 1000 miles, and that would cost me $107.48. Using the lower 42mpg figure, it would cost me $112.60. And using the 47mpg I've actually gotten for the past 3 tanks, $100.62.
Now with this 2009 diesel at 60mpg, it would use 16 and 2/3 gallons to go 1000 miles, which would cost $78.82.
So even though diesel costs more per gallon, this car uses less of it, and thus costs less to drive overall.
* Gas/diesel prices are from the Flying J just North of Indianapolis on I-65, because as I said, that's where I buy fuel most often. Also, my numbers are highway-driving-centric, not city-driving-centric, because I have a stupidly long commute, so most of my miles are city miles. If you want to re-do the math for mixed or city driving, please feel free to post it here.- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Oops, typo. I should have said "I have a stupidly long commute, so most of my miles are HIGHWAY miles".
- strangewill, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1But not many of these cars are actually boasting such a high level of efficiency increase, just emissions.
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2But the added mpg still translates to more "miles per dollar".
- bloggeragent001, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3Good. I wait when it will be available world wide.
- tbhurst, on 05/21/2008, -1/+20You had me at 2-liter flat 4 turbo-diesel Subaru Outback.
- krnldmp, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Oh man, a flat four diesel would be so friggin cool.
- Jishory, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1the economy is great too for an all wheel drive
- optimuscrime, on 05/21/2008, -4/+1you lost me at 18mpg
- mustang460, on 05/22/2008, -0/+4and its estimated mpg is 33/47 !!
really looking forward to seeing more turbo diesel cars hit the american market power+mileage+cool factor ;) win all around - lAciDl, on 05/22/2008, -0/+02009/10 STi as a diesel would be amazing. it would give me a reason to trade in my 06.
- gigarizil, on 05/21/2008, -0/+9Cool, Can you still run them on french fry grease?
- claybodie, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5I don't think most of these manufacturers will support blends of biodiesel beyond 5%, let alone straight fry grease!
- mojo8472, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6No modern common-rail diesel is going to run on anything as viscous as straight veg oil I'm afraid. Go back to the good ol' days of low injector pressures I say! My Peugeot 306 makes 130hp using straight vegetable oil and gets 50mpg if I drive it carefully.
Sorry to say, but the future is 1994- MacEnvy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4That's all well and good, but I hope you realize that your old school Peugeot XUD-series engine running on biodiesel is putting out as much NOx as a freaking city bus. These new engines may be less forgiving than the old ones but they're also much, much cleaner.
And yes, look it up, biodiesel puts out more NOx than regular diesel in the same engine. These new ones trap NOx emissions, reducing it by as much as 90%.- Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Who cares. Pollute like hell I say if it saves money, The objectiv is not to REDUCE pollution its to ELIMINATE pollution.
The only way your doing that is to put oil companies out of business. He may be polluting more but he is not giving nearly as much money to the oil companies. If enough people found little ways to do that.
IF we could just force ONE manufacturer to put out an AFFORDABLE electric car (under $12K) it would be lik an avalanche and unstoppable.
Battery Electric is the future especially when paired with a modest solar panel on the roof supplying more power back to the grid than you will take from the grid charging your car.
100% free to drive 100% pollution free 0% load on the grid.
- Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Who cares. Pollute like hell I say if it saves money, The objectiv is not to REDUCE pollution its to ELIMINATE pollution.
- MacEnvy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4That's all well and good, but I hope you realize that your old school Peugeot XUD-series engine running on biodiesel is putting out as much NOx as a freaking city bus. These new engines may be less forgiving than the old ones but they're also much, much cleaner.
- boardstrapd, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7Modern diesel cars won't run on straight veg oil (SVO) unless you make modification to the engine. But you can turn SVO to biodiesel if you're a handy diy'er. No engine mods needed w/ biodiesel.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
- greenguy2323, on 06/23/2008, -2/+1That's great!
- OffPiste, on 05/21/2008, -11/+4Now if only we could get some decent drivers to buy VW's. How come the worse drivers in the United States drive a Jetta?
- geometry, on 05/21/2008, -7/+6Because only women by Jettas, or I should say only women should buy Jettas.
- SatansSpatula, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3No no, the worst drivers are in Priuses. My theory is that they're people who've been riding bicycles for the last several years who finally caved to the need to cover larger distances.
- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Why does being a cyclist make you a bad driver? On the contrary being one makes you better, makes you learn to appreciate dangers on the road.
- snoogit, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Actually being too cautious makes you just as bad a driver as being careless.
What most people consider being "cautious" is actually quite dangerous - OffPiste, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Show me a bike rider that obeys traffic laws. How often do you see bike riders go thru red lights, fail to signal their intentions, cut across traffic, etc? Hell even on walking trails bike riders are a menace.
- snoogit, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Actually being too cautious makes you just as bad a driver as being careless.
- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Why does being a cyclist make you a bad driver? On the contrary being one makes you better, makes you learn to appreciate dangers on the road.
- Livewired, on 05/21/2008, -8/+38*looks at current diesel price
- borninda818, on 05/21/2008, -1/+21*looks at ridiculous mpg rating
- EtherGnat, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Keep in mind it takes 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does a gallon of gas. In essence diesel is a more dense fuel. Clean diesel is still a great technology, but from a conservation standpoint a 50mpg diesel will use about the same amount of oil as a 40mpg gas vehicle. You'll pay about the same for the two vehicles at the pump, too, based on current fuel prices.
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+6Have you even tried to do the math? I just smacked a guy on the OP thread for this same brainless statement.
THE ONLY CAR ON EARTH right now that is even in the same REAL of cheapness per mile to this 60mpg car is the Prius and JUST bareley. 7.43 CENTS per mile to drive the diesel at current diesel prices and 7.23 CENTS per mile to drive the Prius and ONLY if you can keep it at 50mpg. The moment you drop below 49 the diesel is cheaper.
Your talking about an average mpg increase of 300% with only a 25% increase in fuel cost MAX. (less here in NJ)
I pay 3.619 for Gas 4.489 for Diesel. DO the math. Cost of a gallon Divided by MPG. move the decimal 2 places RIGHT. thats your PENNIES per mile cost IE cents per mile to drive that car. oh and its $2k cheaper than a prius.
If you drive anything but a prius the VW is a no brainer.
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+6Have you even tried to do the math? I just smacked a guy on the OP thread for this same brainless statement.
- EtherGnat, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Keep in mind it takes 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does a gallon of gas. In essence diesel is a more dense fuel. Clean diesel is still a great technology, but from a conservation standpoint a 50mpg diesel will use about the same amount of oil as a 40mpg gas vehicle. You'll pay about the same for the two vehicles at the pump, too, based on current fuel prices.
- sancho, on 05/21/2008, -2/+7Diesel costs more, but the miles per gallon more than make up for it--right now. Who knows if the accelerating cost of diesel will outpace the MPG benefits.
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1actually I feared that but its stopping diesel and gas are starting to mov closer together in price. a month ago diesel was over $1 more than gas now its only 70cents more than gas.
- Modestexcuse, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1That may be true where you are, but not the case here in Oregon. Our Diesel prices have risen drastically over the past few months. (from $3.85 to $4.75 or more)
Either way, gas prices have continued to rise as well.
- Modestexcuse, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1That may be true where you are, but not the case here in Oregon. Our Diesel prices have risen drastically over the past few months. (from $3.85 to $4.75 or more)
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1actually I feared that but its stopping diesel and gas are starting to mov closer together in price. a month ago diesel was over $1 more than gas now its only 70cents more than gas.
- boardstrapd, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3*doesn't look at diesel prices, but at how you can make your own biodiesel from used vegetable oil.
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/howitsmade/ - fahrvergnuugen, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3Simple math. Diesel cars get on average 50% better mileage than their gas powered equivalent - so Diesel fuel has to cost at least 50% more per gallon before it costs more to fill one up.
And then if you consider that if EVERYONE drove a diesel car, overall consumption (for passenger cars) would drop by ~50%, reducing demand and (in economic theory) reducing the price.
- borninda818, on 05/21/2008, -1/+21*looks at ridiculous mpg rating
- thinkandbelieve, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5How much $
- VaporBro, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1STABBY CLAWS!
- moolaismyfriend, on 05/21/2008, -2/+18I was in the bay area last week and diesel was 4.85$ a gallon. and I even saw one place selling diesel for 5.08$
Why is diesel so much more expense than regular. Almost a full dollar. Almost negates the mileage gain.- TheGuruStud, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6and it used to be a lot cheaper than gas. I smell something fishy. Trucks guzzle diesel and cars are more fuel efficient, hmmmm.
Price gouging at it's finest. - Konrad9, on 05/21/2008, -8/+2It costs more money to refine.
- schnikies79, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4Taxes are really high.
I can buy off-road diesel here for nearly $0.75 cheaper than regular diesel. - pendrachken, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Konrad,, you are wrong on soo many levels it isn't even funny.
Diesel is a BYPRODUCT of gasoline production. all they do is remove a little extra sulphur from it and sell it.- ArcticRain, on 05/21/2008, -0/+8Diesel is not a by-product, it is another compound that is distilled out of crude oil, no different then kerosene, lubricants, or other things we get from crude. It requires different distillation methods which are actually easier then what gasoline requires. A by-product implies that it is an undesirable component that we just have to deal with, we get diesel on purpose.
Diesel is more expensive because of the additives that are used to keep emissions down. Off highway diesel typically doesn't contain these additives.
Even with diesel costing more per unit, it can carry much denser concentrations of energy. A diesel version of the same car is generally much cheaper to drive and maintain then its gasoline sibling over the lifetime of the car. - smacksaw, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Actually you're all wrong. We have very little capacity for diesel refining, so it's a supply issue. Farm implements and semis need it no matter what and consumers are left with the rest.
VW has only sold 1-2% of their models as diesel in the US not because they couldn't sell more, but because they can't flood the market with cars that people can't get fuel for. As more manufacturers are bringing diesels to the market it's driving up the prices. More cars are competing for the same amount of diesel. - Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1Actually its more expensive just because THEY CAN. IE this is a permanent increase in fuel costs IE they are raping truckers. Pure and Simple.
- Konrad9, on 05/22/2008, -3/+1Jesus. Assholes.
Refine from dictionary.com: 1. to bring to a fine or a pure state; free from impurities
As in, from hole in the ground to the underground tank at the gas station, it costs more money than unleaded gasoline.
- ArcticRain, on 05/21/2008, -0/+8Diesel is not a by-product, it is another compound that is distilled out of crude oil, no different then kerosene, lubricants, or other things we get from crude. It requires different distillation methods which are actually easier then what gasoline requires. A by-product implies that it is an undesirable component that we just have to deal with, we get diesel on purpose.
- schnikies79, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4Taxes are really high.
- shinythingy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5I don't know about the US but over here (Ireland) farmers get diesel much cheaper. The only difference is that a red or green dye is added to identify it. If you get caught with it in your car though you will get a fine, but the dye can be removed quite easily.
- schnikies79, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3It's the same here (Indiana). I buy it all the time. You just have to ask for a key from the cashier and you better not be caught putting it in your vehicle.
- specialbuddy1, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1We have that in the US too. You have to have a plate on your vehicle that says it's a farm vehicle and it has the same dye.
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+5So how do you get rid of the dye?
- EarlofFC, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3the refining is very similar to home heating oil (which will also run very nicely in a 1991 diesel Jetta ...ahem!). Check the price of HHO, add your states fuel tax, and you basically have the pump price of diesel. At current prices in Maine, diesel Jetta (42 mpg) gets about $0.09 per mile while the Eurovan V6 (20 mpg) gets about $0.15 per mile.
- Hillsfar, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3It definitely used to be cheaper. And in other parts of the world, it still IS cheaper.
Aside from taxes ("farm diesel" intended for farm use is cheaper because of lower taxes), commercial diesel fuel these days is also much cleaner, with less sulfur content. Refining away the sulfur has increased the cost. - naiku, on 05/22/2008, -0/+44.00 for 35mpg
5.00 for 60mpg
it doesn't seem to negate anything.
- TheGuruStud, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6and it used to be a lot cheaper than gas. I smell something fishy. Trucks guzzle diesel and cars are more fuel efficient, hmmmm.
- Zandarrr, on 05/21/2008, -5/+9Am I the only one who was completely unimpressed by the mpgs?
- TheSpook, on 05/21/2008, -1/+9The BlueTDI at 60 mpg isn't impressive?
- optimuscrime, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2The title implied that there was more than one that was efficient... If it burns liquid fuel, and you want to impress me, you need to break 100mpg. The ones in the list that are like 20mpg? wtf.
- web2pointYo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3Optimus...
Those were S.U.V.s
RTFA
- web2pointYo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3Optimus...
- optimuscrime, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2The title implied that there was more than one that was efficient... If it burns liquid fuel, and you want to impress me, you need to break 100mpg. The ones in the list that are like 20mpg? wtf.
- JointVenture, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5We'll the TDI blows away the Prius. Even the GEO STORM beats the Prius.
- ferreth, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3My Dad's 1984 Jetta Diesel got 50 mpg - that's 1984 technology, so yes, I'm not impressed either!
- RawCoyote, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1You can't compare a 1984 vs. a 2009 realistically. The 1984 Jetta Diesel was a tin can rattle trap. I know, I had one. The 84' was a polluter, noisy, and lacked power and the creature comforts and bells and whistles.
The 09 is super low emissions, quiet, more power and has lots of cool stuff inside. I've been a VW man since 1973 and while I have fond memories of some of my past "classic" VW's, I really don't want to go back to them.
- RawCoyote, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1You can't compare a 1984 vs. a 2009 realistically. The 1984 Jetta Diesel was a tin can rattle trap. I know, I had one. The 84' was a polluter, noisy, and lacked power and the creature comforts and bells and whistles.
- Eggpainter, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0Not only are the posted MPG's not worth the increased Total Cost of Ownership of a diesel engine, but check this out:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/vws-tdi-prius-kil ...
People, in general, believe what they read waaaay too much.
And then this article, saying diesel powered engines are on the decline:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/study-diesels-bes ...
- TheSpook, on 05/21/2008, -1/+9The BlueTDI at 60 mpg isn't impressive?
- SatansSpatula, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2"Several models, including those from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, will require the maintenance of a six- to eight-gallon tank of urea."
That's six to eight gallons of PISS.- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Not quite, but given a day or so it will smell awful.
- Anth, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5At least you can refill the tank yourself. And if you're ever tailgating you have a place to leak!
- SatansSpatula, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Hey, I never said it was a bad thing, exactly... I just wonder what the sales brochure says given the disposition of the average BMW, Mercedes, and Audi driver.
Now, if they put it on an Ford pickup, I bet the market would eat it up. ;-)
- SatansSpatula, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Hey, I never said it was a bad thing, exactly... I just wonder what the sales brochure says given the disposition of the average BMW, Mercedes, and Audi driver.
- soulpiercer7, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4urea is not a human byproduct. we have ammonia is our urine. look it up
- Kennerk, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Really? urea isnt a byproduct? interestingly enough, wikipedia thinks so...
"In humans
Urea is, in essence, a waste product. However, it also plays a very important role in that it helps set up the countercurrent system in the nephrons. The countercurrent system in the nephrons allows for reabsorption of water and critical ions. Urea is reabsorbed in the inner medullary collecting ducts of the nephrons[2], thus raising the osmolarity in the medullary interstitium surrounding the thin ascending limb of the Loop of Henle. The greater the osmolarity of the medullary interstitium surrounding the thin ascending Loop of Henle, the more water will be reabsorbed out of the renal tubule back into the interstitium (and thus back into the body). Some of the urea from the meduallary interstitium that helped set up the Countercurrent System will also flow back into the tubule, through urea transporter 2, into the thin ascending limb of the loop of Henle, through the collecting ducts, and eventually out of the body as a component of urine.
It is dissolved in blood (in a concentration of 2.5 - 7.5 mmol/liter) and excreted by the kidney as a component of urine. In addition, a small amount of urea is excreted (along with sodium chloride and water) in sweat."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea- Artimusbill, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Can I haz an english?
- docbob84, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3Urea is most definitely the way mammals excrete waste nitrogen. We break down proteins so fast that, if we were unable to convert ammonia into urea, the ammonia would build up to toxic levels and we'd die pretty quickly. Aquatic animals with a much higher water exchange rate can directly excrete ammonia, but terrestrial animals convert it into one of several less toxic forms that can be tolerated at slightly higher levels until it is excreted.
- Kennerk, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Really? urea isnt a byproduct? interestingly enough, wikipedia thinks so...
- SatansSpatula, on 05/21/2008, -5/+7Also, the author badly needs to learn the difference between its and it's.
- krnldmp, on 05/21/2008, -0/+8Wait til you see the specs on the hybrid diesels.
- rolf, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3I'd settle for a small diesel hybrid, like a Honda Civic or Honda Fit that gets 60+ MPG, but apparently that's not coming:(
- Hosalabad, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3The jeep has been out. This article would be nicer if they filled in the details. I could have written it on a bar napkin from what I read 6 months ago.
- Eddiecoaster, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2I want a 330d.
- Flump5000, on 05/21/2008, -0/+18Why does this seem so amazing? My dad's old rabbit got 50mpg way back when.
- web2pointYo, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1It only weighed about 800 pounds.
- Plantagenet, on 05/21/2008, -20/+4The claim that diesels are "clean" is *****. Scientists have shown that diesels emit carbon soot and particulates that make the Greenhouse effect worse then CO2 alone. But the advertising gurus figure they can fool the uninformed by marketing their diesels as "clean."
- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Petrol engines emit the same amount, they're just smaller particles and so cannot be seen.
- heystoopid, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Nice to see you have forgotten much about the inbuilt carcinogens that come free with every gallon of petrol you buy !
- MacEnvy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Way to not read the article, douchebag. Hell, you might even try clicking on the links provided - they explain why the new crop of diesels are cleaner than most current gasoline engines.
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2Actually the soot FIGHTS global warming. Air Pollutants IE particulate matter (diesel soot) increase the water retention capacity of the AIR. IE more clouds less rain. Result more Radiation from the sun is reflected back into space. IE Global Dimming or COOLING. This is why historically MAJOR volcanic eruptions or ejections (meteor impacts) have led to Ice Ages.
The other polutants cause WARMING> so you have two process in place that "fight" each other
Warming is winning. Dimming is slowing it down.
- DimensionalPunk, on 05/21/2008, -1/+19Plug in electrics, please.
- Zandarrr, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Agreed!
- Flump5000, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5because electricity just magically appears in our outlets and requires no resources to produce.
- EtherGnat, on 05/21/2008, -0/+8No, because generating energy in centralized locations is more efficient than gas engines, and as we upgrade the grid with nuclear and renewables it'll just keep getting better and better.
- djdole, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6It's easier to filter or scrub the exhaust from one single power plant (if the plant is even a fossil-fuel burning plant) than millions of cars.
- hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3If you have wind/solar you can put it directly in your car!
- Nerys, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3Yes as a matter of fact is does. You see you have this little company called Nano Solar. There making solar panels at a cost of 30cents a watt selling the at 90cents a watt. This means once they sell to you and me I can put a $1000 panel on my roof a $1600 grid tie in within my garage.
NOW I am selling MORE E back to the grid each month than I will be using to recharge an electric car.
Figure it out. - Flump5000, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1(***** this comment system.thread? wheres the reply button?)
@djdole:
It's easier to filter or scrub the exhaust from one single power plant (if the plant is even a fossil-fuel burning plant) than millions of cars.
yeah, except you have to shut down a whole city instead of a car.
- Flump5000, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5because electricity just magically appears in our outlets and requires no resources to produce.
- Zandarrr, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Agreed!
- mrinsanity, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3GOOD ARTICLE
- berational, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I'm in line to get the jetta tdi. Diesel and hybrids are opposite in their gains. Diesel gets awesome mileage during cruising 60MPG, start and stop uses a lot more than a constant speed (as one may assume). Hybrid gets awesome mileage during stop and start (all battery is great), when you get on the highway you are basically driving a heavy car with a tiny 4 cylinder engine.
Since I'm hardly in traffic, the Diesel is much better for me. A hybrid diesel would be awesome.- AzBats, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Audi is working on it.
- monkeyrun, on 05/21/2008, -1/+8The premium they charge for diesel in the US is disgusting.
- themonkman, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4No kidding! Before ULS diesel came out, and stricter emissions, I was getting it way cheaper than gasoline. Way cheaper.
- rizzo2008, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1Not quite. Our refineries are designed to produce more gasoline than diesel. If we replaced older refineries with ones that produced more diesel than it might be better. Of course you can make diesel fuel substitutes in your garage (although it can be complicated).
- themonkman, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4No kidding! Before ULS diesel came out, and stricter emissions, I was getting it way cheaper than gasoline. Way cheaper.
- paulmer2003, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6Hrm, cool, BMW is coming out with a new inline 6 diesel. :D. BMW's Inline sixes always have been stalwarts (like all BMW engines ;))
- bbendele, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3The Mercedes Turbodiesel should get better gas mileage than that. My '98 E300 TD gets 37 now. It has actually gone up since it was new. I heard this is true for most diesels.
- Artimusbill, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1All of the diesels from MB are SUV type vehicles, much heavier than you sedan. I would hope it (their V6 turbodiesel) would do much better in a car.
- magusg, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I want a 4cyl diesel Toyota Hilux. mmmmm
- Bytor, on 05/21/2008, -5/+4Except that the supposed 60MPG diesel gets 35mpg combined from EPA.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year ...
Heck people have gotten 60MPG out of Escort ZX2 with hyper-mile techniques. The reason we have tests is for some kind of consistent, comparable results. Not here is the best case on a flat road with no traffic in top gear at low speed...- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Even if that's correct, it's still the lowest of the cars listed on that page in terms of annual fuel cost.
- Eggpainter, on 05/23/2008, -0/+0People who read the article and take it as gospel (without doing the research into the *actual* MPG, not just the mfg-reported (or media reported!) MPG) will continually rate reality-check posts like yours negatively. Everyone has an agenda.
- digghasnoethics, on 05/21/2008, -2/+7People are missing the massive sea change that's underway. Stop thinking about getting a slightly better fuel economy vehicle. Start thinking how you are going to halve your mileage driven, or more.
Not only will prices REALLY start to take off soon (yes, you ain't seen nothing yet), but rationing is coming over the horizon. Remove your dependency as quickly as you can.- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2How?
- KaiSe7eN, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4Make sure you have your Reynolds tinfoil ready also.
- Lazydriver, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Try to find a closer-to-home workplace or move in the cities...
- TheyThinkImNuts, on 05/21/2008, -7/+4It's too bad the reliability of VW, Audi and BMW suck so badly and repairs are so expensive. That alone will more than off-set any cost savings when compared to owning and driving Toyota or Honda.
Me? I'll wait until I can buy a plug-in hybrid and charge my battery every night with electricity from clean nuclear power plants.- Ramble, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1How can you ensure your electricity comes from a nuclear power plant?
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Good point. In my experience w/ my diesel Jetta...the important stuff lasts and lasts, but the little stuff likes to break. Luckily for me, I'm willing to the the small and medium jobs myself, such as replacing vacuum hose/valve, replacing door lock mechanism, changing S- and T-belts, etc.
(Of course every car needs belts changed from time to time).
- heystoopid, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Sweet and bleed LPG on the inlet side and they run even cleaner more economical and far less particulate matter as well , now that kicks ass !
- faizal5k, on 05/21/2008, -6/+1The reason why diesel costs more is that it last longer than regular gas. It runs longer because it's very thick, that's why buses use diesel only.
- MarkusX, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5It's about time to see more diesel vehicles in the USA, but unless Diesel becomes cheaper than regular gas, I don't see a radical change in consumer's buying behaviour.
Regarding gas prices, "digghasnoethics" said "Prices [will] REALLY start to take off soon (yes, you ain't seen nothing yet)...", and that's true. When I ask around, it always amazes me how little US citizens know what's happening in the rest of the world. Gas prices in Europe (i.e. Germany, Netherlands, France, and many others) are ranging between $7 and $10 per gallon (3.78L). And they have those prices for decades already, it's no shock to them. Now we pay about $4 per gallon, that's just half way. It will go up, believe me.
On the diesel front: The reason why diesel cars are so popular for i.e. in Germany is, because the diesel fuel is subsidized by the government. So it's about 10-20% cheaper than regular gas.
That's not the case here in the US, but maybe Washington has to do something in that area to promote buying diesel cars in the USA.- twomeyw23334, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1What does the fact that Europe taxes the hell out of gas have to do with America? Germany, for example, taxes about $7.615 per gallon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_tax#Germany
Unless you mean that the upcoming Democrat takeover of our government means we'll soon be suffering the same fate, which you would probably be right about. - nothin2g, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Diesel is as expensive as regular gas since last week here in germany. One liter diesel is now 1,50€. That' sucks.
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1True diesel is currently more than gas. But diesel cars get higher mpg than gas cars, so fuel cost for a given distance is lower in a diesel (for specific figures, see a previous response of mine near the top). Although for most people to realize that, I suppose the mfrs will have to emphasize that more in their advertising.
- twomeyw23334, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1What does the fact that Europe taxes the hell out of gas have to do with America? Germany, for example, taxes about $7.615 per gallon
- trixterIreland, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3given that diesel can be made out of slaughterhouse remains in just 3 hours it is a renewable resource, and could help to offset importation of foreign oil. Maths suggest that if you used all the slaughter house remains you would have enough to compeltely stop foreign oil from coming in, which should lower the cost. In addition old tires, and a few other things can be easily used (anything with carbon in it can be used, its just a matter of efficiency). If rubbish was also added to this equation then there would be extra for exports, which would strengthen the dollar (less money going out more coming in, huge difference).
biodiesel can be made from veggy oil from restaurants (just watch out for the thieves, yes that is right there are organized groups of people stealing used grease/oil from restaurants to make biodiesel, restaurants sell this to others who want to do the same thing).
The original (or one of the very first ones) diesel engines were designed to run on peanut oil straight up, so its possible that many other oils could be used that arent going to impact that much on anything else.
/maths is proper english
//look it up if you doubt- Lazydriver, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Source next time or bury.
- nitrojunky24, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2I don't see this being worth it considering that diesel is consistently more expensive then gas. unless you run bio-diesel? I don't now what bio-diesel goes for these days? anyone know where I can get some? atl area?
- boardstrapd, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfue ...
- jabbott0, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1In Boulder, CO we have a gas station that sells biodiesel but it costs even more than regular diesel. They sell E85 also which is cheaper than gasoline, but that is mostly due to subsidies and a lower energy density. There is always waste vegetable oil which is much cheaper, but the newer clean diesels probably aren't going to like it. I think the cheapest option overall will be to get a Chevy Volt when they come out (assuming they can make it cheap enough) -- if you drive less than 40 miles a day, you'll be able to drive purely on electric power and pay maybe 10-15 cents per gallon equivalent to drive it. Here are some websites:
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
http://gm-volt.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt - cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1> I don't see this being worth it considering that diesel is consistently more expensive then gas.
It is, when you take mpg into account.
I did more precise numbers in a previous comment higher up, but:
Diesel: 60mpg, $4.70/g = $78 to go 1000 miles. Or $94 if you get 50mpg.
Gas: 35mpg, $4/g = $114 to go 1000 miles. Or $160 if you get 25mpg.
Diesel is cheaper unless (price of diesel) / (price of gasoline) becomes greater than (mpg of diesel) / (mpg of gasoline).
Oh, and as far as biodiesel prices/availability in the ATL area, check http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfue ...
- boardstrapd, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1Only 1 mention of biodiesel in all of these comment? You can make your own biodiesel, and it works in any 93 or later diesel engine w/out modification. Biodiesel is made from used vegetable oil - restaurants would be more than happy to let you dispose of their old oil.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
http://pathtofreedom.com/pathproject/offthegrid/bi ...
So that's what the big deal is about more diesel cars coming out. It's the way for ultimiate diy'ers to give a middle finger salute to the rich oil execs. self-dependence FTW!- 4abtrlife, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Hey but isn't it messy to be making bio-diesel for your everyday needs?
- rento, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Nuff of this.. I want the Air Car!!
- soulpiercer7, on 05/21/2008, -5/+1if diesel didn't cost so ***** much I might consider this. it's $4.30 a gallon right now where I live and it's expected to go up. ***** that
- naiku, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1thats it? its 4.85 here on the southside chicago.
- kenvsryu, on 05/21/2008, -0/+710 years too late.
- osok, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2Dont buy into VW's BS, 60 mpg, maybe on a dyno in a vacuum chamber, my 04 is supposed to get 55mpg, highway, Im lucky to get 25. Complained to the stealer, but to VW apparently its normal for it to get 25mpg on the highway with the cruse control on. (eliminates my foot as being the culprit)
im not the only one, all the owners ive talked to from 04-up are getting the same result
there needs to be minimum economy laws made so that if the cars dont meet the specs, the Manufacturer has to repair at their cost.- maninblac1, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3The problem lies between the steering wheel and the seat.
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Either you got a lemon, or maninblac1 is right. I drive a 1999 diesel Jetta. Sticker said 41 city, 49 highway. I drive almost exclusively highway, and keep meticulous mpg records. Almost every tank of diesel I've put in it in the past 9 years got between 42-44mpg, and I usually drive about 80-85mph.
Once I drove a long distance in a horrible thunderstorm and kept it at 55mpg for a whole tank - that tank got 51mpg.
I got a speeding ticket last month and have been keeping it at 65-73mph since then, and my last 3 tanks have gotten 47mpg.
I have about 167,000 miles on the car.
- cha5e, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Either you got a lemon, or maninblac1 is right. I drive a 1999 diesel Jetta. Sticker said 41 city, 49 highway. I drive almost exclusively highway, and keep meticulous mpg records. Almost every tank of diesel I've put in it in the past 9 years got between 42-44mpg, and I usually drive about 80-85mph.
- maninblac1, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3The problem lies between the steering wheel and the seat.
- adamwho, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2These cars still don't have the millage that the average European car has and several of these have been in the US for a long time such as the VW Diesel TDI.
- web2pointYo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2thats because the average EU car isn't a 5 thousand lb SUV getting 13mpg.
- HenrikG, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0Nothing like waiting until it's too late to solve a problem that will only get worse.
- BigglesPiP, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1BEWARE: The Germans have a habit of publishing figures for an engine that were obtained in the lightest, most aerodynamic car it can be purchased in.
Anyway, 60mph ain't that hot. The Italians invented the modern diesel (the secret is actually the high pressure of injection coupled with astonishingly well controlled quantities). over 70mpg is where the bar has been at for the last few years. - naiku, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2thank god toyota wasn't on that list.
go vw! - smacksaw, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2Every time these articles come up, people should be reminded that we're going to erase cost savings without making more diesel refineries. We can't sell more diesels to consume the fuel without increasing the production of diesel fuel. It just makes it more and more scare.
- 48snickers, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0I can't wait until BMW updates the MINI diesel (long since sold in Europe, but not here) such that it passes California emissions. I'd guess that it would be more efficient than the Jetta TDI, and more fun to drive.
- paker, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1I wrote MiniUSA and asked when the Mini diesel would be imported to the US. They said they had no plans to ever bring the Mini diesel.
- HeyArnold, on 05/22/2008, -0/+5You gotta love how American car companies dont have any desiel sedans listed. They need to wake up and catch up with the rest of the world.
- waydee, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1The thing is, the American companies make lots of decent diesel cars - they just don't sell them in the US for some reason.
- Eggpainter, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1It's the emissions regulations that are to blame. The extra filters and scrubbers required on US-delivered diesels cost massive $$.
- gquaglia, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1American auto makers have always been years behind the rest of the world.
- waydee, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1The thing is, the American companies make lots of decent diesel cars - they just don't sell them in the US for some reason.
- endotoxic, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0i love it and can't wait to check out the vw jetta sportwagen tdi. i'm surprised but pleased to see the japanese makers will also be entering the market soon with diesels. a diesel maxima or tsx would be the sh*t.
- exboy99, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2I'm excited for a diesel rabbit here in NY but the mileage that Clay reports is what was
expected from the new TDI, it wasn't official, and that estimate was slapped down today.
An autoblog article that was posted around 9:30 am today notes that the EPA posts the 09 Jetta TDI 30/41mpg.
that's still great mileage in a REAL car that most people could use for more than just a commuter,
and it could be that it might actually get better hwy mileage than what the EPA gave it.
the autoblog article
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/21/official-epa-nu ... - schwit, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Where's Toyota? The 3.0 liter diesel pickup would be an awesome seller.
- HappyScrappy, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2Official figures for the Jetta are out. It is EPA rated at 41mpg.
Stop the with ***** 60mpg hype. Marked as inaccurate.- visigotik, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Why not? My SEAT Leon MkII tdi can do better that...
http://www.seat.co.uk/generator/su/uk/newLeon/site ...
- visigotik, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Why not? My SEAT Leon MkII tdi can do better that...
- LinuxGalore, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2I drive a LPG V6 here in Australia, right now LPG is less than half the price of Diesel or Petrol (Gas for you Americans). My last LPG car was sold with 640,000Km on the clock and still purred like a kitten and I had only changed the water pump and radiator in 8 years of use.
- Azbet, on 05/23/2008, -0/+0Nice car
-
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