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CA Ford Ad Tells Non-Christians To "Sit Down And Shut Up"
consumerist.com — Kieffe & Sons, a California Ford dealership, is running a radio ad telling non-Christians and people who believe separation of church and state to "sit down and shut up."
ct03- 1908 diggs
- digg it
- thedevice, on 05/27/2008, -35/+242Quite possibly the ballsiest marketing move I've heard today.
- unreg, on 05/27/2008, -8/+49In the land of Free Speech, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
- lex0nyc, on 05/27/2008, -9/+117Not according to the ad.
- Digger1218, on 05/27/2008, -1/+26Good think a Ford dealership has no bearing on anything.
- spdorsey, on 06/03/2008, -0/+1Commercial was pulled. This is on their website:
This statement is provided in response to reaction prompted by a radio commercial that Kieffe & Sons Ford recently ran referring to issues of God in our schools and on our money.
"For 15 years, Kieffe and Sons Ford has run ad campaigns that focus on current events. We have chosen to do this rather than presenting typical car sales ads. We do this through an agency that develops the material and sends us a package of commercials to review. From this, we select commercials that we distribute to area radio stations. Frequently we emphasize humor and patriotic themes, as we are located adjacent to two military bases. Public response over these 15 years has been hugely positive, often eliciting calls and visits from appreciative individuals. Regrettably, the commercial that has prompted the current objection to religious sentiment ("Under God", "In God We Trust") was not closely reviewed by our dealership before it went live. The commercial has been replaced. We apologize to all who were offended. It is Kieffe and Sons' intention to support America and the freedoms that make this country great."
Rick Kieffe, President
- slezzzter, on 05/27/2008, -8/+5Thank one or many gods or fewer for free speech.
But thank them too, for the free market. - TripMoon, on 05/28/2008, -3/+2SO I can burn the flag, right?
- MacEnvy, on 05/28/2008, -0/+6I'd rather you didn't, but I'd never suppress your right to do so.
- TripMoon, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Jeez! I was testing to make sure I still have my freedom. Nothing wrong with making sure you still have your rights once in awhile, is there?
- lex0nyc, on 05/27/2008, -9/+117Not according to the ad.
- dupems, on 05/27/2008, -13/+81Ballsy? More like retarded. Way to alienate potential buyers...
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -1/+6If he's committing to a campaign like this, he probably considers that an acceptable loss. From his perspective, he's reaching out to a lot of people that share his viewpoint and getting free publicity to boot.
- feliks2, on 05/27/2008, -2/+17I can't really imagine people like him being able to "consider" anything.
- stretch611, on 05/28/2008, -0/+10I agree with retarded. While I am sure there are fundamentalist Christians in CA, The liberal mindset in California is extremely pervasive. Isn't he alienating 90% of the population there with the "Separation of Church and State" comment alone?
- AngelBunny, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2most of southern cali is very conservative more than most states. california is diverse in the way that some areas are extremely liberal and some are extremely conservative were normal states tend to generally be all one way or all the other.
- notanidiot, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Retarded, as in, this guy asserts his own freedom of speech, to say he has the right to try to eliminate the freedom of speech, or freedom of religion of others. Its really ironic, however, and if it were satire, it would be ingenious.
Furthermore, just because you believe in God doesn't make you a Christian. This guy might want to open his eyes and see that there are also Jews, Muslims, and Satan worshipers, all who believe in God.
In the same amendment with freedom of speech is freedom of religion, and so this tirade is completely and grossly, dare I say it, "Unamerican."
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -1/+6If he's committing to a campaign like this, he probably considers that an acceptable loss. From his perspective, he's reaching out to a lot of people that share his viewpoint and getting free publicity to boot.
- KB925902, on 05/27/2008, -10/+22It is in no way 'the ballsiest'. If those statistics were true, then it would be simple economics. It is, however, stupid.
- ElTomacco, on 05/27/2008, -1/+41Those statistics are irrelevant anyway. He said 86% of Americans believe in god. He somehow took that to mean that all those people are practicing Christians and that no practicing Christians believe in evolution.
- ArielMT, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3According to the American Religious Identification Survey of 1990 (ARIS 1990), 86% of Americans responding professed one denomination or another of Christianity as their religious faith.
The same survey in '01 (ARIS 2001) revealed that the percentage of Christians dropped to 77%.
Source: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/ari ... page 10.
So he was right, but woefully out of date.
- ArielMT, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3According to the American Religious Identification Survey of 1990 (ARIS 1990), 86% of Americans responding professed one denomination or another of Christianity as their religious faith.
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -1/+10Actually, it just might be a very good marketing move, regardless of any statistics he quoted.
He realizes that he's alienating a fair percentage of his potential client base, but he's also drawing in people with similar views. He's gambling that with all the press coverage he'll get for this, he'll attract a whole bunch of people that will support his buisness because of the marketing ploy.
Good strategy, but he's certainly not making any friends; a lot of Christians, including myself, would be turned off by a campaign as obnoxious as this.
- ElTomacco, on 05/27/2008, -1/+41Those statistics are irrelevant anyway. He said 86% of Americans believe in god. He somehow took that to mean that all those people are practicing Christians and that no practicing Christians believe in evolution.
- serif69, on 05/27/2008, -8/+40And it worked too. Front page on Digg and a feature story on consumerist.
As they say, "There's no such thing as bad press."- familynight, on 05/27/2008, -4/+18I bet Nixon would disagree with that adage.
- BrewBeau, on 05/27/2008, -2/+7Yeah, I hate their message, but I guess I'll buy a car from them.
- pintomp3, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9until you get boycotted.
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -2/+5Really? I can't remember the last time a boycott had a large effect on a business. Maybe I'm wrong though...
On the other hand, there's probably a lot of people who share his viewpoint that will make a special effort to buy from him. - pintomp3, on 05/27/2008, -0/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Bus_Boycot ...
- majglow, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2Yeah... 50 years ago
- Speed, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Puppyfarm, how do you think strikes work? In Edmonton, the Safeway strike crippled them, and 10 years later, they still haven't fully recovered form the loss of customers. The Palace Casino strike meant there were virtually no patrons inside the casino at all. The only reason they managed to survive so long was that the other casinos gave them money to stay open.
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -2/+5Really? I can't remember the last time a boycott had a large effect on a business. Maybe I'm wrong though...
- Ladymongoose, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9"I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. "
Well, maybe they'll be signing a different tune if their business goes down by that 14%.- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -2/+4But that won't happen. He'll loose that 14% or more, but he'll have a whole bunch of people who agree with him making a special effort to buy from him.
It isn't a crowd-pleaser campaign, but it is a fairly smart one.
- Puppyfam, on 05/27/2008, -2/+4But that won't happen. He'll loose that 14% or more, but he'll have a whole bunch of people who agree with him making a special effort to buy from him.
- chicofaraby, on 05/27/2008, -9/+59Sure is. Frankly, I appreciate it. Any business that sticks it's superstition in my face I don't patronize. If they're stupid enough to pull this kind of crap, then they are too stupid to get my business and I want to know that.
- Cerebral, on 05/27/2008, -3/+33Let's be honest, you weren't going to buy a Ford anyway :)
- ArielMT, on 05/27/2008, -2/+1o/` Have you driven a Fnord... lately? o/`
- CosmicJustice, on 05/27/2008, -3/+13Yeah, uh, they don't care. They just told you they're targeting the 86% that doesn't include you.
- chicofaraby, on 05/27/2008, -2/+21Exactly. I'd rather know who doesn't want my godless money. I wish everyone who felt like these nuts do would post it openly.
- Jambi, on 05/27/2008, -0/+19You're under the mistaken impression that everyone in the US who believes in a god thinks telling atheists to "sit down and shut up" is a good idea. I'd disagree with that; this guy's just alienated a hell of a lot of people, believers and non-believers alike.
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4They wish it was 86%.
Basic Economics Principles will surely provide them with the real numbers.
Godspeed, idiot marketer, Godspeed.
- Cerebral, on 05/27/2008, -3/+33Let's be honest, you weren't going to buy a Ford anyway :)
- Zipko, on 05/27/2008, -3/+10Dumb statement, but it's probably going to help business if the demographics in their area support it. Who cares if you piss off people who don't live close enough to your dealership to have been potential customers anyway?
What's sad is that marketing like this actually works on any demographic. You should be able to get by appealing to what's good in your target demographic, not on what's bad about the groups they oppose.- Laminarcissus, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3Actually, the demographics of the area are kind of interesting.
I've been to Mojave, to watch the launch of SpaceShip One. It is (almost literally) a Motel 6, Denny's, and a Jack in the Box in the middle of the desert, three hours from anywhere, supporting various incredibly high-tech aerospace firms, including Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites.
So it's kind of like a college town -- townies making their living in a support role, and then a bunch of Phds living in pre-fab houses plunked in the middle of the sand.
- Laminarcissus, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3Actually, the demographics of the area are kind of interesting.
- darkrabbi, on 05/27/2008, -7/+18I think the word you're looking for is asinine. This message has nothing to do with cars anyway. Hopefully this doesn't start a trend...
FREE PALESTINE!!...and stop by Sam's Home Appliance this weekend for our special "DEATH TO ISRAEL" sale - EVERYTHING MUST GO!- nitemonkey, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2Considering America's Israeli bias, it's more likely to be the other way around.
- Logicexe, on 05/27/2008, -6/+38Ballsy? Come on. He stood up with the majority to alienate the minority in a community that is fairly conservative and Christian. They're pandering to their locals.
- tyywebb, on 05/28/2008, -0/+7God, I read that "pandering to their lolcats" the first time.
- XeNoGeAr78, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8UwsffLtNY
- Drahkir, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Dude. Thanks. Seriously. I needed a good laugh.
- stilesja, on 05/27/2008, -0/+7When it comes down to it, these guys are car salesmen and if you walk in willing to pay sticker on the last day of the month, they'd convert to Islam if they thought it would get them a sale.
Since when do we look to car salesmen for moral high ground? These guys just know that smart people aren't buying Fords anyway so why not cater to the other 80% - Ladymongoose, on 05/27/2008, -1/+13If I sit down and shut up, I sure won't be doing it in one of their cars, that's for sure.
- monoa, on 05/28/2008, -2/+4If 'ballsiest' is another word for 'I-am-a-clueless-mouth breathing-*****', then, yes, this dude is the ballsiest redneck I want to buy car from.
Unfortunately, for this bottom feeder, this company is the last one I will buy *anything* from. - toowired77, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5Which Christianity should take over the country? Should we have a Mormon, Quaker, SDA or Catholic country? If we had a "Christian nation" where there was no separation of state and church, church groups would kill each other off with their competing theology. America's great strength is its practical thinking.
I once thought that Christianity is about Jesus, but I guess that is no longer the case. As a Christian, I am tired of people who claim to speak for all Christians. - darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5He's actually proving Evolution / Survival of the fittest.
He just isolated > 80% of this customers.
His business is doomed.
If PROCLAIMING JESUS was a great business model, don't you think that it would have been figured out by now?
The reason Corporations pander to church goers, is because they are mindless sheep that will buy into anything.
If you can convince a grown adult that they must obey a Zombie (named Jesus), don't you think they see a PERFECT CUSTOMER for their ultra-efficient-laundry soap?
Seriously. Look at the ingredients of your soaps, hair gels, etc.
IT'S THE SAME ***** *****! (across different product lines)
Soap1 == Soap2 (less Yellow #7)
Soap2 == Soap3 (plus Yellow #5) - notanidiot, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Here's a ballsy move for ya! http://digg.com/politics/Contact_Kieffe_and_Son_s_ ...
- unreg, on 05/27/2008, -8/+49In the land of Free Speech, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
- dig1x, on 05/27/2008, -83/+470Dealers are independantly owned, but Ford is going to crush this idiot. Call them and complain:
United States
800-392-3673
Canada
800-565-3673
Quote them from their own diversity policy:
http://www.ford.com/our-values/diversity
Here's the "contact us" form:
https://secure.ford.com/footer/contact-ford/contac ...- Shiftgood, on 05/27/2008, -14/+171eh... im an atheist and i really don't care. He can say what he wants.
- thal3s, on 05/27/2008, -8/+69True. And i support the right to do so.
However, hard-core believers like these people would execute all of us non-Christians.
I find that a little bothersome... (if you think i'm exaggerating, i would direct you to news stories involving the radical right in the middle east)- boomerfan2005, on 05/27/2008, -15/+9I would like to see this news story you speak of.
- ubuwalker31, on 05/27/2008, -3/+32If this ad is purely political speech...then fine...it is fully protected under the 1st Amendment. However, since this is commercial speech, and since these Ford cars and trucks are made in interstate commerce, and lets say a Muslim walks into the dealership, and the dealership refuses to sell him a car, or treats him differently than Christian customers, I'd say that this is a violation of the 13th and 14th Amendments, sort of how it is unlawful for a diner to be prejudiced against blacks.
- cornswalled, on 05/27/2008, -21/+7Boomerfan2005, he's equating the Christian Right with the Muslim right. He's equating a handful of abortion clinic bombers with thousands upon thousands of suicide bombers over the same time period.
dig1x,
So, you want to destroy his freedom of speech because you don't like what he has to say? Are you a hypocrite or just a Communist? - boomerfan2005, on 05/27/2008, -9/+1Thank you that's what I was trying to get at if he actually responded to me.
- tech42er, on 05/27/2008, -5/+6@ubuwalker
I actually have a real problem with that. If it's a private business, they should kind of have the right to refuse to sell to whomever they want, for whatever reason they want. I don't agree with their motives or reasoning, but if they only want to sell to Buddhists or blacks or whatever, that's kind of their right and the government should have no say in what a private business chooses to do. - StaticThunder, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9@tech42er
Its not that simple since tax breaks are given to small businesses. Their business license is essentially a contract in return for zoning easements, tax write-offs, legal protections (incorporation), things like that. So they do have some obligation to be a "good" business. Otherwise, they may need to find some other place to operate from.
If he was running his car dealership entirely in a vacuum, with no consideration from the community he is within, I'd agree 100%, be a bigot all you want. But I don't want a cent of public money or any special considerations that have been made to stimulate the local business economy wasted on his ilk. - shellnet, on 05/27/2008, -1/+1nice.
- buckrogers1965, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Sort of the same way the state has the right to revoke the business license of someone they get a lot of complaints about?
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3@boomerfan: Have you ever heard of the Crusades?!
- theliamburns1, on 05/27/2008, -19/+13I'm not quite sure what I am. I believe in evolution 100%, can't deny it. But evolution is simply a code. A strand of programming designed to keep perpetuating life on earth. Now what created the code? Is it god? a more advance civilization? ;)
..... idk
I almost believe the earth is a conscience being and we "life on earth" are simply its means of reproducing. Think of humans traveling through space to find another planet as would be the sperm of a species looking for an egg.
Who knows?!
i come up with theories after theories on this. My beliefs are constantly changing.
But the one thing I do believe is to not force your ideologies on someone else. Let them think for themselves and reach their own conclusions. This company is down-right retarded for doing this and I'm damn well sure they will be sorry when they check their sales.- Shiftgood, on 05/27/2008, -3/+12Well to get specific im not sure either.. but atheist/agnostic is my neighborhood. I think that if there is this "god" and that he is all knowing, cannot be created or destroyed, has existed for all time... then wouldn't he be all things? String theory says we are all comprised of a single component vibrating at different frequencies. Cant we then call this component "God"? and i use the term God loosely. Not as in Big man with white beard God but.... the only 1 thing that exists for the experience of existence.
Im god, you're god, the computer is god, the air is god, the planets and stars.. its all made up of the same thing, god. With no meaning (which points away from there being a god) but the fact that it exists without purpose (points to a god) means that existence is the meaning.
sorry its all jumbled, its kind of hard to explain a web of interlocking logic in a linear fashion (typing).
word up. - inhaler, on 05/27/2008, -0/+16The great thing about evolution is that you don't have to "believe" in it. It's a theory (not hypothesis). Macro and micro evolution is demonstrated every day Look up speciation for example.
Alot of theists think you have to believe in things for them to work, but I think that's just vaulted self-importance. The world is going to keep on spinning, people are going to keep on *****, and change is always happening, whether or not you believe in how, or why it occurs. That's just something that can't be comfortable with. It demonstrates how insignificant their faith, and their existence, really is.
I'm an opptomist though, so perhaps I'm slightly contradictory when I say we don't really matter. - atarijedi, on 05/27/2008, -6/+2Why does a program need a programmer?
- Fordi, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2@atarijedi:
Actually, it doesn't necessarily. There's some good self-evolving and self-coding AI work out there.
Anyway, it's not really analagous anyway, unless you're dealing with very specific questions. - nyx210, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3@Shiftgod: You sound somewhat like a pantheist...
- urothane, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4@Shiftgood Your ideas parallel some of my own and I find Buddhism to be the right path for me. you may find it works for you as well.
Oddly enough what this guy is telling the non-Christians to do is the name of a good Buddhist book by Brad Warner "Sit Down and Shut Up" talks about Zen, punk rock and monster movies. - theliamburns1, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1@inhaler:
If you look at quantum theory, specifically the double-slit experiment http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
it shows that it takes the consciousness of an observer to collapse a wave function in super-position. This means that - without someone directly observing what happened to these electrons and defining where exactly they were, they would be in-fact multiple places at once in an infinite number of super-positions. The simple fact of observing them collapses the super-position into ONE definite point.
So this goes to show how much power, actually believing in something and actually observing with your conscious mind, has. So don't necessarily say the world will automatically keep going if you don't believe or observe because everything in existence as of right now might only be a product of your conscious observances!
Idk....
the quantum world is freekin insane.
- Shiftgood, on 05/27/2008, -3/+12Well to get specific im not sure either.. but atheist/agnostic is my neighborhood. I think that if there is this "god" and that he is all knowing, cannot be created or destroyed, has existed for all time... then wouldn't he be all things? String theory says we are all comprised of a single component vibrating at different frequencies. Cant we then call this component "God"? and i use the term God loosely. Not as in Big man with white beard God but.... the only 1 thing that exists for the experience of existence.
- punkcat, on 05/27/2008, -7/+8um if u are an atheist then you would want to complain, or for that matter any person of a religion outside of christianity.
by sitting down and shutting up they are asking you to allow their religion to be forced down your throat.- boomerfan2005, on 05/27/2008, -16/+2He uses the word "God" never does he say Jesus therefore it can be Judaism or Islam as well.
- marx2k, on 05/27/2008, -0/+9Boomerfan: RTF Title.. "CA Ford Ad Tells Non-Christians To "Sit Down And Shut Up"
You can also RTFA: "Now, since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians who believe in God, we at Kieffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't just tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up." - ahawks, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9You shouldn't presume what another person "would want" just because they may share your (a)spiritual beliefs.
Yeah their behavior is obnoxious, but I don't really give a *****. Free market. You're free not to buy a car from them.
***** political correctness.
- unreg, on 05/27/2008, -8/+25Free speech is free speech. You can't give and take as you please.
- TeCuervo, on 05/27/2008, -0/+25No one else found it funny that the same person that rambles about free speech tells me to sit down and shut up?
- EtherGnat, on 05/27/2008, -0/+12We're just exercising our free speech right to tell him to sit down and shut up.
- insertAliasHere, on 05/27/2008, -0/+8@TeCuervo
It's a little ironic, but it is still their prerogative to tell you to STFU. But you still have the right to disregard that and speak up. The beauty of free speech. - yunus, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1True. I don't live near that area so I have 0 effect on them but I hope the people who do live around there decide to take their business elsewhere. Their free to speak as they please and we are free to take our business their or elsewhere because of what they say.
- TeCuervo, on 05/27/2008, -0/+25No one else found it funny that the same person that rambles about free speech tells me to sit down and shut up?
- stonewaljacksn, on 05/27/2008, -18/+10atheist rebellion team go go go!
losers. free speech is a double edged sword. stop wishing this country was some kind of fascist dictatorship as much as the evangelicals do.
oh yeah, free speech is only cool when the person speaking has values in accordance with your OWN. i forgot about that. hypocrites.
theliamburns1, as for you, you are right on. the thing is, digg is so militant when it comes to atheism that you will probably end up dugg down (sadly, for being open-minded) - Fordi, on 05/27/2008, -2/+14Agreed; why should I give a rat's ass? Fords are ***** vehicles anyway, and I live in PA. Let the idiot lose business and be done with it.
- somberwolf, on 05/27/2008, -0/+5Free speech is important, but it needs to work both ways. I'll bet if you go back in history to look at every attempt to crush minorities, two things would become apparent: first, it always starts with hateful rhetoric by a few loudmouths; second, most people merely let those loudmouths continue-on, unchallenged, or simply ignore them.
In other words, they sit down and they shut-up.
- Jacolyte, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2This guy just makes himself look like an idiot... so who cares really?
- mistergraves, on 05/28/2008, -4/+1thank you. all day these people talk ***** about god on here but someone says something THEY dont like and "they don't have the riiiight"!!
it's hypocritical.- dorkdork777, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2OK, could you suggest another nonexistent being for us to 'talk ***** about' then?
- stuffradio, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Radical Atheists would do the same thing... what's your point?
- thal3s, on 05/27/2008, -8/+69True. And i support the right to do so.
- Inflammo, on 05/27/2008, -20/+11Parish the thought that someone exercises their free speech in a way that you disagree with. Can we stop with the complaining already? Everyone is entitled to their opinions and mode of business operations.
- PopcornDave, on 05/27/2008, -1/+12Was "Parish" intentional or ironic?
- Inflammo, on 05/27/2008, -1/+4Well it was that or "God forbid"
=p
- Inflammo, on 05/27/2008, -1/+4Well it was that or "God forbid"
- jetblackstrat, on 05/27/2008, -3/+5It is "Perish" not "Parish"
- Inflammo, on 05/27/2008, -4/+2You really have nothing to add but a spelling suggestion?
- inhaler, on 05/27/2008, -4/+1At what point does it become hate speech?
- serif69, on 05/27/2008, -0/+5Hate speech is protected as well. So it doesn't matter whether it is or isn't; it's protected. You can't have it both ways.
- creepydarkwurm, on 05/27/2008, -2/+5Aren't you contradicting yourself?
"Can we stop with the complaining already" ? Right there your saying stop complaining, Meaning to stop being free with your speech. And then in the next line you say " Everyone is entitled to their opinions".
Or do you mean people are only entitled to their opinions when it matches yours.- Inflammo, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2I didn't say you weren't allowed to bitch, or that you should be limited. I'm just tired of people trying to have everyone's jobs taken away from them because they disagree with something that person [or company] says.
- creepermclurker, on 05/27/2008, -1/+4It is also your right to 'speak' to Ford Motor Company to express your opinion and vote with your dollar.
- MammasMilk, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3He has the right to say what he wants. But when you do that, sometimes you have to face the social repercussion. For example when you exclude people and put them down for not having the same beliefs as you.
Basically, when you walk around throwing ***** all over they place, people will start throwing it back at you. DUH!
- PopcornDave, on 05/27/2008, -1/+12Was "Parish" intentional or ironic?
- YodaJones, on 05/27/2008, -86/+30Waaa. Call Ford Call Ford. What a whiny bitch. You eunuch, it's people like you that make America a land of politically correct pussies.
Maybe that "Blackhole" that your profile says you are from is your ass.- Kyrgizion, on 05/27/2008, -3/+5I'd say the same thing, but for entirely different reasons.
Clearly they hope to get a lot of exposure by being controversial. It's called free publicity. By circulating this story you are giving them exactly that. I won't give them the satisfaction so I'll just bury it.- cornswalled, on 05/27/2008, -11/+2So there's one Liberal they didn't lull into their cunning plan.
- creepermclurker, on 05/27/2008, -1/+11I don't get it. Why is this person a bitch?
If the owners are free to express their thoughts in the airwaves why can't this person express their opinion to Diggers? Why can't Diggers express their opinion to Ford?
You should think before you type.- sancho, on 05/27/2008, -3/+2By expressing your opinion to Ford, you are, in essence, asking Ford to limit this person's speech. Is that reasonable?
Everyone is welcome to express his opinion, however you can still call someone a hypocrite for asking that someone else's be silenced.
Just because you have the right to do something, that doesn't mean that you should do it. Advocating that this person be censured for expressing his opinion while simultaneously proclaiming your own right to free speech is hypocrisy. - castleking, on 05/27/2008, -0/+7"By expressing your opinion to Ford, you are, in essence, asking Ford to limit this person's speech. Is that reasonable?"
Ford has every right to do something about this. Not all people understand that dealerships are independent from auto manufacturers. People offended by this ad will associate it with Ford, something Ford almost definitely does NOT want. Ford has every right to protect their image, and if that means refusing to sell cars to a particular dealer or limit the cars they can purchase, they should. - StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1"By expressing your opinion to Ford, you are, in essence, asking Ford to limit this person's speech."
In order that we don't "make" Ford limit their speech, we have to limit our speech... that about sum it up?
- sancho, on 05/27/2008, -3/+2By expressing your opinion to Ford, you are, in essence, asking Ford to limit this person's speech. Is that reasonable?
- TecK415, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1I'm hope you are no more than twelve years old... But I doubt it.
- Kyrgizion, on 05/27/2008, -3/+5I'd say the same thing, but for entirely different reasons.
- csstudent, on 05/27/2008, -6/+46Here's a better idea. If it bothers you that much - don't buy cars there. That was the risk he took when he put the ads on the radio. As a business owner he had every right to do that.
- peestandingup, on 05/27/2008, -3/+7I thought the only people left buying Fords were rednecks anyways?? Wait 'till gas hits $5, they'll be gone for good.
- Jacolyte, on 05/27/2008, -1/+1Yeah, srsly.
Just don't buy their products.
This guy is just an idiot making himself look more of an idiot... no harm done really. - salmonmoose, on 05/27/2008, -2/+4Actually - a better idea is to complain to the radio station broadcasting this tripe. The American freedom of speech act, is merely a protection against the government censoring you, private enterprise, such as a radio station, can censor who they like. Unless they are a conservative Christian radio station, they'll take note of the complaints.
Boycotting a car yard is next to impossible, getting them blacklisted at advertisers is pretty easy. - AquaOSX, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but if you don't like what those idiots are saying, you probably don't live in Rosamond, CA. And if you do live in Rosamond, CA, you're probably now compelled to buy a used, lifted, 2WD *****-kicker truck from those ass hats.
- cornswalled, on 05/27/2008, -19/+13From the article (Which you clearly didn't read)
"She (A whiny atheist complaining about the ads) wrote to Ford headquarters, but received a reply that because the dealerships are independently owned and operated, she should get in touch with the management at the dealership."
In other words, Ford doesn't care.- delmar14, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1In other words, Ford wants no part in the political correctness vs. free speech debate for fear of being dragged into a potential lawsuit.
- akamurph, on 05/27/2008, -23/+4Liberals love to whine about something that doesn't fit their beliefs.
- cquinnd, on 05/27/2008, -1/+5This doesn't fit anyone's beliefs.
- pyro12, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4I'm as liberal as they come and I think they can say whatever they wants. In fact I PREFER that they be allowed to say this, since if they didn't run this add then nobody would have known they were buying from a place that held these idiot beliefs. Now we have reason to shun them.
- tehbored, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1And conservatives don't? ***** cons and libs.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1Conservatives like to whine about liberals whining.
- executorzz, on 05/27/2008, -6/+14Freedom of speech applies to all. We shouldn't attack someone's livelihood because we don't agree with what they say. Forcing him to shut up is a very fascist position to take.
- MxM111, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5One thing for them to disagree with science. Another for them to say that the rest should shut up... because it is free speech?
- executorzz, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Yes it is free speech.
- sugarazor, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5Because Evangelicals would NEVER try to attack someone's livelihood because they don't agree with someone says. Hell, Evangelicals have an entire organization devoted to stuff like this - the Parents Television Council.
- delmar14, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Take the high road. Show that you respect their right to free speech even when they don't respect yours. Expose the hypocrites for what they are, don't sink to that level.
- Speed, on 05/28/2008, -2/+4So I should continue to purchase Fords from his lot even though I disagree with him because I don't want to attack his livelihood?
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5Freedom of speech includes verbally attacking someone's livelihood.
I would be against people firebombing the dealership or physically hurting people, but complaining to Ford and prtesting outside the dealership are totally fair game.
Fascism would be trying to get laws passed to force him out of business or make him shut up, and no one is doing that. If the government is not involved it can not be fascism. - kenij, on 05/28/2008, -3/+3Look, I hate to say this, but if this ad was reversed, everyone on Digg would be loving it. Stop with the hypocrisy, people, please...
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2People who dislike Hitler are hypocrites.
Had Hitler done the opposite of mass murder (i.e. philanthropy), then everyone on Digg would be loving him.
Stop with the hypocrisy, people, please...
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2People who dislike Hitler are hypocrites.
- StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Those exercising their free speech are not forcing him to shut up. People complaining to Corporate Ford are merely exercising their free speech; if Corporate Ford decides this isn't a good business PR move and tells him to shut up that's their right as the company shipping new vehicles to him under their name. As an acting representative of Ford they have that right. People complaining to Corporate Ford are not limiting any one's rights, they are exercising their right just like this dealer was exercising theirs. Just because you can say a thing, however, doesn't mean you won't get backlash.
- delmar14, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1But Ford does not the contractual right to tell him how to advertise.
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3What does his livelihood have to do with Freedom of Speech?
He can say what he wants to. If I don't agree, I have the freedom to not buy his "cars".
I'm not attacking his livelihood. He's choosing to put his religion above his business model.
He's choosing to isolate > 50% of his potential customers. If his business fails, it's not because we're "attacking his livelihood" (you sound like Bill Orly), it's because we don't believe in his zombie friend Jesus.
If he kept his mouth shut, I wouldn't know which imaginary friend he believed in; and I'd probably buy a car from him. - TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1@delmar14
"But Ford does not the contractual right to tell him how to advertise."
You're right, Ford doesn't have the right to tell him how to advertise. But they can stop sending Ford cars for him to sell.
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3What does his livelihood have to do with Freedom of Speech?
He can say what he wants to. If I don't agree, I have the freedom to not buy his "cars".
I'm not attacking his livelihood. He's choosing to put his religion above his business model.
He's choosing to isolate > 50% of his potential customers. If his business fails, it's not because we're "attacking his livelihood" (you sound like Bill Orly), it's because we don't believe in his zombie friend Jesus.
If he kept his mouth shut, I wouldn't know which imaginary friend he believed in; and I'd probably buy a car from him. - drakethegreat, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2True but I had people telling me when I get my new car to buy American by getting a Ford. Now I see this article on digg as well as the one about NAFTA. Guess what? Nope won't be buying Ford.
- MxM111, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5One thing for them to disagree with science. Another for them to say that the rest should shut up... because it is free speech?
- jblack15, on 05/27/2008, -2/+10How about you sit down and shut up.
- benoitcsirois, on 05/27/2008, -6/+20I sent a message through their web-interface:
To the management,
It is with great sadness that I found out on digg.com that the "Kieffe and Sons" Ford dealership in California has launched a new marketing campaign broadcasting discriminatory messages towards non-Christians.
I understand that it is not in line with Ford's diversity policy to allow such hateful advertisements, and as a non-Christian myself, I feel greatly offended. Regardless of whether I intend to purchase Ford products or not, the broad casted message contributes to the isolation of non-Christians in society, including several ethnic minorities, and hampers the efforts to build a harmonious society.
Ford Motor Company has distinguished itself by pioneering the development of modern vehicles through hard work and dedication, overcoming difficult obstacles thanks to its customers in the United States and abroad. I would like to see this dedication be reflected in Ford Motor Company's public image.
Please stop Kieffe & Sons Ford from spreading hateful messages.- FourWallsBass, on 05/28/2008, -19/+2Please stop whining like a little bitch and grow a pair. That's the problem with people today...they care too much about what other people say or do in order to help convey this "perfect" American society or something. I am neither a christian, liberal, or a republican, and there is nothing too horribly "offensive" about what was said...pull those long strands of anal beads out of your ass, please.
- benoitcsirois, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5I understand that you have such an opinion.
- TecK415, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2And give them to me. God damn I need some new beads for my butt hole.
- 47f0, on 05/28/2008, -0/+8You pathetic little intestinal parasite. You have, with your microscopic little brain, totally missed the offense. It's not about offended christians or atheists. "Sit down and shut up" should be a totally offensive message to any American. This country was not built on "sit down and shut up". This nation was conceived in very vocal dissent, and that fundamental concept is at the core of our values as Americans. The moment we "sit down and shut up", the game is over - we have lost our country, and those who espouse such treasonous beliefs deserve everything they get.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1Please stop whining like a little bitch and grow a pair. That's the problem with FourWallsBassFourWallsBass today...he cares too much about what other people say or do in order to help convey his "perfect" American society or something. I am neither a christian, liberal, or a republican, and there is nothing too horribly "offensive" about what was said...pull those long strands of anal beads out of your ass, please.
- uncoolcentral, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3bravo. better than mine!
- FourWallsBass, on 05/28/2008, -19/+2Please stop whining like a little bitch and grow a pair. That's the problem with people today...they care too much about what other people say or do in order to help convey this "perfect" American society or something. I am neither a christian, liberal, or a republican, and there is nothing too horribly "offensive" about what was said...pull those long strands of anal beads out of your ass, please.
- metric7, on 05/27/2008, -2/+6Freedom of speech is a bitch.
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1How dare you refer to it as a "bitch"...
Hundreds of thousands of people have died so we could have the right to Freedom of speech. I highly recommend that you respect your rights, lest you lose them forever.- kristoaster, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1sarcasm?
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1How dare you refer to it as a "bitch"...
- osko2052, on 05/28/2008, -3/+4Go ahead and call them. The AFA put pressure on Ford to quit advertising on homosexual media. Guess what, Ford quit advertising there. Don't forget it can work against you too.
- smashingmonkey, on 05/28/2008, -0/+9I'm not Christian, but I love that "In God we Trust" is on the currency because it's a constant reminder that Americans worship money.
- HonestAbe, on 05/28/2008, -0/+9It wasn't originally on the money.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2It wasn't always on money???!!!!
quick change the subject!
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2It wasn't always on money???!!!!
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4I think it means that too many Americans have been raised to be blind followers and will believe anything they are told.
- HonestAbe, on 05/28/2008, -0/+9It wasn't originally on the money.
- picciano, on 05/28/2008, -10/+6I may well give them a call...not to complain, but to buy a car. Good for them!
- Ravatar, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Good for them for what exactly? I don't go around telling members of a given religion what to do, and in turn they should refrain from doing the same to me.
- haobaba1, on 05/28/2008, -4/+1done did that, I am not afraid to speak up.
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2did ya done studied yer americun histery too?
Or was yer bible and the snake in the garden story easier fer ya?
- darkciti2, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2did ya done studied yer americun histery too?
- LogicBomB, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Huge double standard. If I posted a radio ad that said "Religion is the opiate of the masses, come down to A&B and we'll talk facts, not magic" it would be pulled in 2 seconds.
- lex0nyc, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1I wrote in using their contact form. This was the reply I got this morning:
Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center regarding Kieffe and Sons Ford's radio advertisement.
Ford Motor Company is concerned with the satisfaction of all Ford and Lincoln-Mercury owners and potential customers. We regret the circumstances that have prompted you to contact us.
This specific issue has been addressed by Ford Motor Company personnel with appropriate representatives at Kieffe and Sons Ford in Mojave, California. Our investigation has determined that the advertising was placed in error. Corrective actions have been taken to prevent this from happening again.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this to our attention.
If you have any other inquiries, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.
Sincerely,
Shiela
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company
- Shiftgood, on 05/27/2008, -14/+171eh... im an atheist and i really don't care. He can say what he wants.
- ct03, on 05/27/2008, -23/+112The blogger linked in the story actually wrote to Ford corporate and received a reply telling her to take it up with the local dealership. Hopefully there's enough negative attention to get them to reconsider.
- DangerCollie, on 05/27/2008, -7/+11I'd drive by with my new Toyota truck and flip them off.
As if Ford sales aren't hurting enough corporate sticks up for the stupids. I was considering a Ford F-250...but not now.- cawpin, on 05/27/2008, -15/+1You were considering an F-250 and now you're gonna buy a Toyota? Right, good luck with that. You might want to check your driveshaft before every time you drive it, you know, to make sure it doesn't fall off.
- Lazydriver, on 05/27/2008, -0/+10Considering Ford trucks are soon to be made mostly in Mexico with Chinese parts, I'd buy a Toyota or Acura that's made in America with Japanese parts, thank you very much.
- ssn697, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1you really can't find enough ways to be completely full of *****, can you cawpin? First, you talk complete ***** about submarines, then this, among about three others.
When are you going to catch on that you are clueless?
- FourWallsBass, on 05/28/2008, -3/+0Again...this is just the bad apple v. bad barrel theory. You people are letting one example totally sway your perception. If you are letting this one thing sway your opinion about INDEPENDENTLY run, you are just as ignorant as the idiots who posted the ad in the first place.
- cawpin, on 05/27/2008, -15/+1You were considering an F-250 and now you're gonna buy a Toyota? Right, good luck with that. You might want to check your driveshaft before every time you drive it, you know, to make sure it doesn't fall off.
- smashingmonkey, on 05/28/2008, -1/+12Here's what I wrote to Ford, the best I could in less than 1,000 characters:
Dear Ford,
Today I heard the controversial radio ad from Ford dealer Kieffe and Sons. I find this ad to be deeply offensive. Allow me to explain.
1. The ad makes the gross assumption that all people who believe in God in the USA are Christians and does not account for the myriad of other religions to be found in our great country.
2. The ad then tells the remaining 14% to "sit down and shut up", citing their right to offend as "free speech". Ironic that our country's greatest value is used to tell others not to speak freely.
3. It tells all 14% to shut up. Most atheists and agnostics I've met are not activist in their beliefs. Sure, a vocal minority may be, but they do not represent the entire 14%, just as Kieffe doesn't represent the entirety of good Christians. Thus they resemble those they oppose in their intolerant attack on a large group based on their distaste for a vocal few.
I hope you will consider how your association with these people damages Ford's good name. - topiKal, on 05/28/2008, -4/+1Why is it that everyone on Digg is so adamant about free speech when people are picketing Scientology, but the second some ***** car dealer in California says something we don't like, everyone thinks that Ford should muffle him?
The First Amendment is there for a reason. It doesn't just leave when someone offends you.- dig1x, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Scientology is a parasitic criminal mafia, a Ponzi scheme. It has nothing at all to do with this conversation. Its a confidence-scam. Neither a religion nor a cult.
http://www.xenu.net- topiKal, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I hate Scientology just as much as anyone else, and I understand the implications.
My point is that if people on this site support public picketing of something and place it under the realm of free speech, then this car dealer (although he certainly is an idiot) should be allowed to speak freely about religion in whatever medium he wishes. He paid money to put an ad on the radio just like anyone else.
This guy is telling non-Christians to "Sit down and shut up." But that's my entire point: we don't have to, and neither does he. So why try to get Ford to censor him?
He might be tasteless and even downright wrong in his statements, but isn't that what free speech is all about? Even idiots and assholes have constitutional rights.
- topiKal, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I hate Scientology just as much as anyone else, and I understand the implications.
- shadeOfGrey, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2The car dealer has every constitutional right to say the things he said. And everyone else has the right to disagree, and complain if need be. We can inform him and his associates that we disagree and will not support his business. While there should be no violent or illegal responses, we are certainly allowed to tell him to shut up once he has told us to.
- Abomonog, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Although the dealership has the right to say what it wishes in it's ads this particular ad is tarnishing Fords name and Ford needs to stop it. Admittedly this is because Ford is good enough at tarnishing it's own name without this particular dealerships help.
- dig1x, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Scientology is a parasitic criminal mafia, a Ponzi scheme. It has nothing at all to do with this conversation. Its a confidence-scam. Neither a religion nor a cult.
- notanidiot, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1If you want to do something, don't call Ford... do THIS! http://digg.com/politics/Contact_Kieffe_and_Son_s_ ...
- DangerCollie, on 05/27/2008, -7/+11I'd drive by with my new Toyota truck and flip them off.
- DMU789, on 05/27/2008, -19/+24"Atheists drive Chevy's"
I agree with kspary--dad (on the blog)
oh and for the record, I have two Fords, I just thought it was a funny comment- user500, on 05/27/2008, -1/+5I am and I do!
- weasel435, on 05/27/2008, -3/+5Me and my godless Corvette would agree.
- TheMidnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Hey, Christians drive Corvettes too. :) What kind you got?
- thirteenthcor, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1He has a 1980 C3 in GM Atheist Yellow, with a Pagan White Interior.
First year to have the Atheist Yellow to I believe.
::wink::
It was always my understanding that most American Christians like ugly, poorly assembled, inefficient domestic-made cars, and atheists and homosexuals drive well-built, attractive, and efficient Jap and Euro cars.
A few models by GM set aside though.
- thirteenthcor, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1He has a 1980 C3 in GM Atheist Yellow, with a Pagan White Interior.
- TheMidnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Hey, Christians drive Corvettes too. :) What kind you got?
- Fordi, on 05/27/2008, -3/+1I prefer VWs and Mazdas myself.
- zydeco, on 05/27/2008, -0/+11Atheists know how to correctly use the aprostrophe.
- terajoule, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3Finds Oil Rather Delicious.
- fuzzybeard, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Found On Road Dead
- welestgw, on 05/27/2008, -14/+84I suppose the guy would be disappointed to be reminded that "Under God" was added in 1954.
Though I can't really see this helping to sell more cars. If they are looking to offend they should have just offered free gas for 3 years to people who recite the pledge of allegiance and throw down a few Hail Marys.- Terr01, on 05/27/2008, -1/+31Not to mention their math sucks--at least, it assumes that absolutely nobody in America (A) believes in God without (B) being Christian.
Among other excluded groups: Jews! Obviously they're anti-semitic bigots :P - ZenMojo, on 05/27/2008, -13/+1Heck, "In God We Trust" was added to our money in the 1860's.
- ndavisAA, on 05/27/2008, -0/+8http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currenc ...
A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency.
- ndavisAA, on 05/27/2008, -0/+8http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currenc ...
- imbok, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0The motto "In God We Trust" first appeard on the 2 cent coin in 1864.
- Terr01, on 05/27/2008, -1/+31Not to mention their math sucks--at least, it assumes that absolutely nobody in America (A) believes in God without (B) being Christian.
- The_Wallbanger, on 05/27/2008, -14/+343Sit down and shut up! My free speech is better than yours!
- Garlik, on 05/27/2008, -26/+13And yet this is exactly the same thing that Atheists are telling Christians every day on digg
- danogburn, on 05/27/2008, -5/+34because atheists use critical thought to back their beliefs.. We're not asking you to sit down and shut up. We want you to see religious belief is irrational.
- DreKor, on 05/27/2008, -8/+3and some of the people you're arguing against want to see you spend eternity in fiery torment for not believing in their god. sounds like you're at an impasse. really, neither side understands the other, so there can never be a good discussion between them.
- Digger1218, on 05/27/2008, -2/+20I'm atheist and I don't really care if every other person on the Earth wants to believe in an invisible man in the sky. Live and let live I say. By caring about the beliefs of others, you reveal your own insecurities with your own beliefs.
/2 cents - Diderotten, on 05/27/2008, -5/+4@Drekor: I think I can safely say that most of the atheists on Digg were christians at one point in time. That's why the arguement is so feral when it comes to christianity.
- Fartag, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4@Digger1218
Suppose you find out that the water from the village well is making people sick, you've tested it, you've done the spectographic analysis, and you know how to negate the effects of the poison by whoever drank it. Is it mere insecurity if you tell the village the truth? After all, it's their belief that the water is healthy to drink, why should that feeling of comfort be disrupted?
Before you say irrational beliefs are harmless, I argue that scientific and technological stagnation, imposition of irrational law, persecution through differing irrational ideologies, gross inefficiency by following irrational beliefs instead of rational ones, irrational influence over ones dependents, and any of these devastating things magnified at the hands of an irrational majority are not harmless things.
Irrationality is _almost always_ harmful, to oneself and to others, don't withhold reason especially when it can do the most good! - Dumbledorito, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4@Diderotten: Why not just trot out the old standard? "Oh, everyone KNOWS that God is real and that Jesus is his son, but Athiests reject him, even though they secretly believe."
Because your comment is just about as insulting. - TheMidnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Why is belief in religion "irrational?" Because you say it is? Using reason to understand the world is one thing, but employing it as a weapon against something you don't agree with and declare as irrational just because of it is another.
Commence the digg-down just because I dare defend the mere possibility that our senses don't sense everything that exists. - Diderotten, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1WTF @Dumbledorito: I was saying that one side DOES understand the other. How in the hell am I saying atheists secrectly beleive anything? I'm just saying atheist diggers know more about christianity than any other religion and that's why we can argue it so well.
- Logicexe, on 05/27/2008, -2/+22I have never told anyone to shut up. I've argued with them, criticized their opinions and sometimes when I lose patience I've made fun of them, but I've never denied them the right to speak their opinion, no matter how much I disagree.
Please don't confuse criticism of speech with censorship. They are not the same.- staffa, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1So either you are the only athiest in existence or you speak for them all.
- Garlik, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2I agree that there have been some good discussions between atheists and Christians, the majority of Christian arguments seem to be "The Bible says this, the Bible says that," etc. which is not in any way a good argument. On the other hand, a lot of atheists also post extremely pointless responses like, "Religion is the cause of all evil, we should destroy it." and "lol invisible beings... hahahaha."
Conversely, though, there are a few intelligent people on both sides of the argument, but not as many as the unintelligent ones. This wouldn't really be a problem except because of the unintelligent religious responses (which get buried), some actually intelligent comments are also buried because of people's low opinion of religious people's intelligence or objectivity, and because the majority of Digg users are non-religious and sadly many bury any comments that oppose their ideas (not saying that religious people don't do that)
My main problem with this is that in a lot of cases, when religion is involved, both intelligent and unintelligent religious comments are buried, while a lot of unintelligent non-religious comments are dugg up just because people agree with them not because they are intelligent or backed up by evidence (I do respect those people on both sides who can actually support their ideas and make even somewhat intelligent claims, which, as everybody knows, is not that easy on Digg).
So if both intelligent and unintelligent religious comments are dugg down while both intelligent and unintelligent non-religious comments are dugg up, that is no longer criticism. That's biased censorship; they're "burying" other people's opinions because they conflict with their own and because the majority of people here are atheists, religious comments receive the short end of the stick. - Logicexe, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3@Staffa
I can only speak for myself. I was in no way saying that all atheists are like me, just that it's important not to confuse criticism of what's someone believes with censorship. I see very few atheists trying to censor Christians.
@Garlik
Diggs are just diggs, they're not censorship since anyone can just click to view the post. It's more of a rating on what people think of your post.
- staffa, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1So either you are the only athiest in existence or you speak for them all.
- BrewBeau, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9I don't know of any Atheists going to churches and telling them what to think and teach. It's when the disease of religion infects science class when it becomes a problem.
- EarlOfLade, on 05/27/2008, -1/+6No, but they are asked to actually gather some real knowledge in the areas the spew tripe about, most often things like evolution and geology.
Then when they have acquired at least the basic understanding of the issues, come back and discuss them on a serious level, not just with "because the bible says so".
If you call the "to shut up" then I guess.. - m3th0dm4n, on 05/27/2008, -1/+1Sit down and shut up.
- danogburn, on 05/27/2008, -5/+34because atheists use critical thought to back their beliefs.. We're not asking you to sit down and shut up. We want you to see religious belief is irrational.
- pakakapa, on 05/27/2008, -0/+6A reply like "***** off and drop dead" would at least respect their free speech.
- Zuggy, on 05/27/2008, -0/+10In America you're free to say what you want, and I'm free to give you the finger for saying it, we all win.
- sticko13, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3America! ***** yeah!
- sfacets, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Actually, since the Churches have more money than you, their free speech is more important. You do live in the US.
- Garlik, on 05/27/2008, -26/+13And yet this is exactly the same thing that Atheists are telling Christians every day on digg
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -55/+361Dear Kieffe & Sons Ford,
My name is Shannon Cronin and I am a life long Southern California resident. I am writing you in response to an advertisement that I heard today. This advertisement was apparently released by your dealership.
In this advertisement, a claim is made that 86% of Americans are Christians. While Christianity is certainly the largest religion practiced by Americans, the actual number is closer to 79%. That means 1 in 5 people actually don’t subscribe to the notion that God had a son through a virgin, who would later be crucified and then, much like in “Night of the Living Dead”, rise from the grave. 1 in 5 people actually grew out of superstitious beliefs and decided that fairy tales are nothing more than that, fairy tales.
The advertisement continues to ponder the question “Why we don't just tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up?” only to then say “This is America folks, it's called free speech.” That would seem to create an oxymoron. But let’s apply this logic to other cases. 74% of the population is listed as “White”. Because Caucasians are the majority should we tell Blacks, Asians, Indians, Hispanics, and Middle Eastern people to “Sit down and shut up”? That would seem to be your logic when applied to religion.
In truth and in fact your dealership does not truly understand what it means to be an American. I hope for your sake all of your employees agree with this advertisement, if not, I would sue you for discrimination and creating a hostile work environment.
Sincerely,
Shannon Cronin- Snokage, on 05/27/2008, -100/+31so because you don't follow the same beliefs you decide its just better mock them.
- theliamburns1, on 05/27/2008, -4/+58What? She can't throw in her two cents, her opinion? Atleast she's not advertising this ***** all over the radio
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -0/+20She is a he. :)
- ortucis, on 05/27/2008, -2/+2* liamburns wasn't available for further comment.
- carpespasm, on 05/27/2008, -0/+9(My message sent to this dealership)
To whom it may concern,
I've just heard your dealership's radio commercial concerning religion in the US, Christianity in particular. First I would like to point out that while 14% of the US population doesn't affiliate itself with any religion, that doesn't mean that all other people in the US are of some Christian denomination. The actual number is closer to 78%, depending on if you count groups like Aryans and FLDS Mormons. Though the majority of US citizens consider themselves Christian, there are still people of nearly every other religious faith in the world practicing their beliefs in the United States. I respect your right to say what you want, but your add doesn't seem to hold the same respect when you tell 14% of US citizens to "shut up and sit down". It's hypocritical to in the same breath praise our right as US citizens to speak freely and tell other citizens that they shouldn't speak their minds as openly as yourselves. As I said, I respect your right to think anything you wish, as well as your right to let it be known, but the right to free speech includes free speech for people who aren't in the majority, so I think you should respect to your fellow American and allow them the same right to free speech you're using.
Have a nice day. I'd be interested in anything you'd like to talk about with regard to the issues your ad raises. - Snokage, on 05/27/2008, -11/+3there is a difference between stating your opinion and mocking someone for what they beleive.
- ashfish, on 05/27/2008, -0/+8Well thought out and articulate arguments always piss off zealots more than bashing and name calling arguments. Don't give them more fuel for the fire. Kudos @carpe.
- StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2@snokage: both are covered under freedom of expression. You're right, however, that one way is more likely to persuade someone to act favorably than the other though (akin to: you'll attract more people with honey than you will with vinegar).
- quaxon, on 05/27/2008, -27/+59Any grown adult who still believes in the retarded stories put forth in the bible (or any other religious text for that matter) deserves nothing less than to be mocked.
- DeathStrawberry, on 05/27/2008, -21/+9Way to be a bigot.
- zspade, on 05/27/2008, -1/+7Way to believe in the retarded stories put forth in the bible. You've really demonstrated your capacity for critical thinking. I really do appreciate this, as from this point on I will know there will be no intelligent conversations with the one known as DeathStrawberry.
- feliks2, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3DeathStrawberry, the MagicalSkyWizard will be proud.
- Rally603, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3Talking snakes and guys who can walk on water?
Really?
Come on... - HonestAbe, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Jesus saves souls... and redeems them for cash and valuable prizes!
- Frustian, on 05/28/2008, -1/+21) "(or any other religious text for that matter)", There are many religious texts that are not as badly misinterpreted as the bible, and what is practiced as Christianity today. Instead, they focus on how you can become a better person, without trying to make you believe in an external deity
2) "deserves nothing less than to be mocked". If that is how you want to spend your life, go ahead, but do not complain if Christians put stuff like this on the radio, as you are doing the exact same thing.
3) In my opinion (or my interpretation) the Bible was a fictitious story, never meant to be taken literally, and show you how you could become a better person, and introduce morals. Such as accepting everybody for who they are, and not intentionally causing pain to another person. Christians have gotten so far away from the original goal of the bible (no matter how you interpret it, there is nothing in there about starting wars, crusades, or radio ads like this, in fact it discourages such actions, anybody doing such things is then proving they are not a 'true christian'). - DeathStrawberry, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1Congratulations on proving my point about the bigotry. Have fun living out the rest of your meaningless life as a retarded fish-frog monkey.
- StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3@DeathStrawberry: Jesus would not approve of your spite.
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -3/+13Yes, that is what I decided.
- cambob76, on 05/27/2008, -7/+33Once you've come to your senses about Christianity, it's hard not to mock it. I seriously suspect Christ would laugh at it too, were he alive.
- DeathStrawberry, on 05/27/2008, -16/+2His name was Jesus (or Joshua). Only believers call Him Christ, because it affirms His divinity. And I don't think Jesus would laugh at people for believing in Him.
- kakwakas, on 05/27/2008, -0/+8Nono, we're not talking about the fairytale Jesus if he were real, we're talking about the ACTUAL guy named Jesus (Yeshua is closer to his real name, as there's no 'J' sound in Aramaic),
- cambob76, on 05/27/2008, -0/+12I'm not a believer and I just called him Christ. Did I just shatter your world? I think Jesus would be at once horrified and amused at the things that have been said and done in his name...
- Rally603, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1908/wbqgvcrbnm ...
- StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1@DeathStrawberry: Nonbelievers can call him Christ, too, since it is wildly known, even amongst nonbelievers, that when you're talking about a deific figure named Jesus you're talking about Jesus The Christ; ergo the reverse is also likely true, where if you are talking about The Christ you're almost certainly talking about Jesus.
Also, kakwakas is correct.
@Rall603: Jeezus should have said "I am the Law!" but that might be too cliche, mm? heh.
- Fordi, on 05/27/2008, -5/+18Explain what the ***** is it about the religious that makes them think it's OK to tell atheists to shut up, and we'll stop making fun.
- sapo916, on 05/27/2008, -0/+81st Amendment mainly, the same thing that allows Atheists to tell them to shut up and call religion a fairy tale. Its a 2 Way Street friend.
- Snokage, on 05/27/2008, -0/+2never said what they did was right, but does that make it right to "attack" back?
i guess i don't understand, if some idiot said something that i don't agree with, instead of giving them the attention they are crying out for I ignore them and continue on with my life. - Fordi, on 05/27/2008, -1/+5>_> We still have to engage with these people; we still have to be publicly active in order to prevent rights abuses. Being told to 'sit down and shut up' is no more helpful, and significantly less funny than calling God a 'sky daddy'.
Besides. Legally OK != Polite or morally defensible. - StaticThunder, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4Oh no. I want the religious to talk. Very loudly in fact. It makes it easier to mock them.
- scaaven2, on 05/27/2008, -7/+3boom, this comment went from +1 diggs when I loaded the page down to -40 diggs when I buried it.
- Speed, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2OMG HAX!!!!!11
- theliamburns1, on 05/27/2008, -4/+58What? She can't throw in her two cents, her opinion? Atleast she's not advertising this ***** all over the radio
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -4/+16Here is their email if anyone else wants to write them..
ksf@kieffeandsons.com- mdcarso, on 05/27/2008, -26/+2Thanks for the e-mail address!
My e-mail:
Gentlemen:
Read about your advertisement on the web site, the Consumerist. All I can say is GOOD JOB! Thank you for standing up for Christians against the heathens.
God Bless,
Matthew Carson- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -2/+7So is God for pornography or not? Just wandering, because most Christians would say no, but you enjoy it right? Can you define heathen? Is it someone who makes fun of "Japs" and drools over naked women but doesn't accept Jesus into their heart? Just trying to gather a clear picture of what type of Christian you represent? Based on my readings, it appears you are a typical hypocritical one. I could be wrong though.
- tracer9, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3haha - i see the joke you were trying to make. Either that or, gosh darn, you are retarded.
- mdcarso, on 05/27/2008, -26/+2Thanks for the e-mail address!
- soot, on 05/27/2008, -7/+28Good letter, but its better to argue your point and not try to attack their views.
- marx2k, on 05/27/2008, -4/+10It's difficult to argue anything with individuals who believe mystical beings create and control anything they don't understand, including holes in arguments/theories.
- bieber, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3You _do_ realize that your comment effectively amounts to "They're stupid, why should I play fair with them?!", right?
- marx2k, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1You can read it how you like. But anyone that's had an argument with a five year old knows, there's only so much of "Because my mommy/God/the Bible says so" one can take.
- marx2k, on 05/27/2008, -4/+10It's difficult to argue anything with individuals who believe mystical beings create and control anything they don't understand, including holes in arguments/theories.
- SillyDigger, on 05/27/2008, -5/+13(Full contact)
Also known as: Mojave Motors LTD
Richard Kieffe (President)
Patrick Hamilton (VP)
Pam Burdick (Secretary/Treasurer)
Website: http://www.kieffeandsons.com
Phone #: 661-824-2477
Fax #: 661-824-2801
Email: ksf@kieffeandsons.com
Contact form: http://apps.dealerconnection.com/dealers/kieffeand ...- SillyDigger, on 05/27/2008, -0/+3Toll free #: 1-800-662-8551 (800 NO-BULL-1)
- elbarto89, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1Someone Please hack their website or bring it down
- Defuser, on 05/27/2008, -41/+5Dear Shannon: you seem to be a self-absorbed bitch. Just thought you should know.
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -3/+141. If by bitch you mean male. Guilty as charged.
2. If by self-absorbed you mean smarter than Christians... again, guilty as charged.
Damn why can't a guy be named Shannon. No one ever heard of Shannon Sharp or Shannon Hoon?- Digger1218, on 05/27/2008, -0/+7Or a boy named Sue?
- akamurph, on 05/27/2008, -8/+2Shannon has too much time on HER hands to actually write out that whole letter if SHE is offended. No Shannon, self-absorbed is entirely different than 'smart'. Shannon should get a life.
- PixelMagic, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2That wasn't very lady like of you.
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -3/+141. If by bitch you mean male. Guilty as charged.
- stonewaljacksn, on 05/27/2008, -54/+16that was the most ridiculously awful letter ever and you are an embarrassment to atheism thanks to your mocking comments. not to mention, you show a ridiculously shallow and just...well, no let me mock you. you are ***** stupid and show no understanding of christian, or any religious philosophy for that matter, and you make your complete ignorance clear in that letter.
so much for atheists being more intelligent. but thanks for the laugh
Sincerely,
A fellow atheist- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -1/+16Should I have instead wrote "you are ***** stupid and show no understanding of atheism"? Would that have been a more reasonable way to represent Atheism?
- zmjone2992, on 05/27/2008, -1/+7Jesus! chill with the run-ons.
- kayala, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Those aren't run-on sentences. I noticed one spot where a comma should've gone, and otherwise it's fairly grammatically correct. The sole act of using conjunctions does not a run-on sentence make.
I'll give you an example here of a run-on sentence do you see how there should've been a period between "sentence" and "do"?
-the high commissioner of the grammar gestapo
- kayala, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Those aren't run-on sentences. I noticed one spot where a comma should've gone, and otherwise it's fairly grammatically correct. The sole act of using conjunctions does not a run-on sentence make.
- localzuk, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9Lol, you talk about atheism as if it is a single thing. ATHEISM ISN'T A BELIEF SYSTEM OR A RELIGION! This person isn't a representative of atheism. They are just expressing their opinion.
- staffa, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4It wasn't the best reply I could imagine and it commited a couple of the same type of logical errors that the original message did. But it was hardly the most 'ridiculously awful' letter I've ever seen. It was far better then yours and even yours isn't the most 'ridiculously awful' reply I've seen.
- AnOMNOMymous, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Atheists are not a group, *****.
- lex0nyc, on 05/27/2008, -5/+26So perhaps since is America is a small percentage of the world's population, we should be told to shut up and sit down?
- StaticThunder, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Actually?
- CosmicJustice, on 05/27/2008, -11/+3Please don't use big words until you get a better grasp on the rules of grammar. An advertisement cannot "ponder" anything. An advertiser might, but an advertisement never could.
- RebeL5K, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2Since you're lecturing on grammar, the correct phrase would be "an advertisement never can", unless you're suggesting that they could not do so but maybe now and in the future they may.
- kayala, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Not quite. "Could" is also used in the hypothetical sense. But you are on to something, as the comment above you does mix verb tenses. See: "an advertisement cannot... an advertisement never could."
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -2/+1Did you listen to the ad?
- AnOMNOMymous, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0Ponder is not a big word.
- RebeL5K, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2Since you're lecturing on grammar, the correct phrase would be "an advertisement never can", unless you're suggesting that they could not do so but maybe now and in the future they may.
- Digger1218, on 05/27/2008, -18/+4Dear Shannon,
Please suck the butter from our asses.
Sincerely,
Kieffe & Sons Ford- BrewBeau, on 05/27/2008, -1/+5Why do they have butter in or on their asses? God probably told them to do it?
- pintomp3, on 05/27/2008, -0/+2easier priest insertion.
- suttercain, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4Butter has too much fat and I am trying to remain slender. Now if someone brings "I can't believe it's not butter" to this party....
- Digger1218, on 05/27/2008, -1/+2lol its from the insults from around the world article from the other day.
- BrewBeau, on 05/27/2008, -1/+5Why do they have butter in or on their asses? God probably told them to do it?
- stockdam, on 05/27/2008, -9/+3So "1 in 5 people actually grew out of superstitious beliefs and decided that fairy tales are nothing more than that, fairy tales" ........ shows how little you really know.
In other words 80% of Americans are stupid.....ok I'll buy that.- localzuk, on 05/27/2008, -0/+6Huh? Provide evidence to support Christianity and it's stories. Until evidence can be provided to show that, say, water was turned into wine, or a sea was parted, or someone fed thousands of people with a bit of bread and some fish, or that a bloke built a ship and filled it with animals, or that a man rose from the dead, then we can discuss things sensibly. Until then, I think they are quite within their rights to refer to it as fairy tails.
- Rally603, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3"In other words 80% of Americans are stupid."
***** yes they are.
- KillerFuzzball, on 05/27/2008, -3/+1That's a lot of effort there...
- wicketr, on 05/27/2008, -12/+5Their point isn't that "Christians/other God believers" need to suppress atheists by covering their mouths up. Their point is that they need to stand up for their beliefs the same way that atheists do. In other words, out-scream them so that no one can hear the atheists. With the amount of bitching and moaning that atheists do, you'd think they were the majority of the population. The same is true for blacks. You'd think they were a majority with the amount of crying that they do over affirmative action and BS racial accusations.
Atheists will vote for atheists view points, and Christians will vote for Christian viewpoints. Let the majority win and the losers accept loss until the next vote. (The prime examples: Republicans during the Clinton era, and Democrats during the Bush era)
In the end we should do this the capitalistic way: If you agree, don't buy from them, if you do, buy from them. Why has bitching and moaning (aka tattle-telling on them) become the new American way. Man up.- wedges, on 05/27/2008, -0/+2a business is one thing, but if you send a kid to public school an athiest and he comes home born-again, it's not up to you. then you're saying that you have a choice what your children should believe, as long as you can afford private school.
- wicketr, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Could the same not be said for a kid that goes to school born-again and comes home an atheist because of what they teach in Biology?
While I think in-depth Christian teachings should be left out of school, I do think it's an obligation of "school" to teach. And by teaching, they have to give both sides to the argument for/against evolution and for/against creationism.
By only being permitted to give one side of the argument, they aren't really teaching them anything so much as brainwashing them into a certain belief, which i think was your main concern about a kid coming home a Christian...brainwashing.
- wicketr, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Could the same not be said for a kid that goes to school born-again and comes home an atheist because of what they teach in Biology?
- wedges, on 05/27/2008, -0/+2a business is one thing, but if you send a kid to public school an athiest and he comes home born-again, it's not up to you. then you're saying that you have a choice what your children should believe, as long as you can afford private school.
- mroffroad, on 05/27/2008, -17/+1Have fun burning in hell after you die Shannon.
- localzuk, on 05/27/2008, -0/+6What? Sounds like a nice religion that punishes people simply for not believing in some almighty being.
- StaticThunder, on 05/27/2008, -0/+5Score one for the compassionate Christian God. Not only does he have his followers revere reason, act with compassion, turn the other cheek when offended, but he enjoys listening to the wails of the ones he damned for needing too much convincing.
- suttercain, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Hell... sounds make believe to me. But you're right, I should believe in it.. after all one single book, written by numerous authors over 1900 years ago says it's true so it must be. After all, they were right about so many other things. Earth is flat. The sun revolves around us. The rapture is coming soon. Etc, etc.
- thaistick, on 05/28/2008, -2/+12Your letter would have no effect. In his reptilian brain, you come off as just another sensitive liberal. Your letter actually makes the scumbag feel even better.
Here is a version that might actually penetrate his thick skull, and irritate him, at least slightly. (note: All of it is fiction - locality, and "*****" stuff, etc, it is all required though)
---------------------------------------
Kieffe and Sons -
I live in Rosamond, on Astoria Ave. I am a Christian. Christ is my savior. I do not appreciate others that give Christians and Conservatives a bad name. Your radio ad has that effect. I actually was very close to purchasing a ford (in fact spoke with one of your representatives recently). After hearing your radio ad, I WILL NOT be purchasing that Ford from you.
Do you not recognize, that when you enter into the politics of division, it hurts your larger cause?
Do you not recognize that your attitude of intolerance is actually un-American? YES - hear that. UN-AMERICAN.
Ask yourself this question. Who is most like the Taliban? (choose one) ...
1) You and the tone of your radio ad, or ..
2) Some ***** homosexual liberal living in San Francisco, that is tolerant of others.
The answer is 1) You.
You, in my book - are actually more un-American than a ***** ***** liberal in San Francisco.
The most important thing to note though is this: I understand that your ad is a calculated risk - it may actually increase business for you. Regardless though - Your ad and it's Taliban tone hurts my party as a whole - the Republican party.
I think you are short-sighted, and honestly, quite stupid. Quite stupid because I'll bet $100 that you don't understand a single word I said.
Let FREEDOM ring, and let the American version of the Taliban (you and your kind) fade away -
(sig)
---------------------------------------
and yes, I sent it- ventura7, on 05/28/2008, -0/+6Sad - you have to speak his scummy language. But you are right, as far as effect, a major improvement on the first letter.
- HonestAbe, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1Contradiction, not oxymoron.
- Snokage, on 05/27/2008, -100/+31so because you don't follow the same beliefs you decide its just better mock them.
- SuperWinner, on 05/27/2008, -32/+132Christians in the US think jeebus would be exactly like the and ride back from heavain in a huge Ford truck.
Sadly for them if jeebus were real he would likely be brown, and so they would immediately lynch him for being different.- shinythingy, on 05/27/2008, -2/+12Well at least you seemed to have grasped that US Christians are pretty ***** different to most Christians in the world.
- ZenMojo, on 05/27/2008, -2/+6US White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Evangelical Christians without a college education, you mean. They're not a majority in this country at all.
- pintomp3, on 05/27/2008, -1/+25he was a brown liberal socialist. he would probably be labeled a terrorist and sent to gitmo and tortured all over again.
- stupidStan, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3funniest damn thing I have read all day!
- lies03, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3j-e-s-u-s, you've been watching too much simpsons.
- Rally603, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1908/wbqgvcrbnm ...
- jamesfaction, on 05/28/2008, -0/+7Spelling aside, SuperWinner best comment in this thread.
Jesus only cared for the margins of society. The poor and the disenfranchised. Unlike the vast majority of so-called "Christians" of today.
Don't go for all that "accept God/Jesus into your heart" crap, that doesn't mean anything. Live life according to the way Jesus lived, give help and care to those who need it most. Then your life will be a worthy one. - mistergraves, on 05/28/2008, -6/+2what the ***** are you talking about?
- warrenterr, on 05/28/2008, -3/+4I think Jesus would have driven a volkwagen van with flowers, smoking weed.. you get the picture...
- Narrwald, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Yes, every last one of us believe this. It's correct.
- jonfox1210, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1That is such a wildly ignorant and naive thing to say.
Certainly, if Christians were actually like that, they would be idiots. But basing your entire perception of any religion's followers on the stupid antics of whatever loudmouthed idiots digg is chewing out this week is pretty idiotic too. Grow up.
- shinythingy, on 05/27/2008, -2/+12Well at least you seemed to have grasped that US Christians are pretty ***** different to most Christians in the world.
- nutniqs, on 05/27/2008, -14/+309Jesus Chrysler
- Pyehole, on 05/27/2008, -3/+66Jesus Chrysler Supercar?
- Suzilla, on 05/27/2008, -3/+3Now, hosanah just a minute, there...
- happyhacker09, on 05/27/2008, -2/+2Dugg for LLK song title
- fuzzybeard, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Andrew Lloyd Webber is gonna be *so* pissed that he didn't think of it first!
/WWJDrive? A Chrysler Crossfire, maybe?
- Pyehole, on 05/27/2008, -3/+66Jesus Chrysler Supercar?
- roket21, on 05/27/2008, -25/+9ummm...what's the big deal. They do have a right to say that. The ad is probably gonna go sit down and shut up when the dealership realizes that it isn't bringing in any customers. Now the ad campaign worked the way it was designed -- to provoke.
- Jexie, on 05/27/2008, -2/+29They have a right to say it, and we have a right to let Ford know we won't be buying their products if they support it and a right to also say what we want about this person - whats your point?
- roket21, on 05/27/2008, -0/+10*****, you're right. Don't know where I was going with that. I guess I was trying to say that they could shove that ad up their ass for all I care.
- Jexie, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3I hate to keep bitching about this new comment system - but for the first time my reply (original reply to your comment - not this reply) has shown up under a completely different comment than I actually replied to. Maybe I clicked on the wrong reply link...but I don't think so.
For what its worth I do believe these guys were just going for some shock value and the publicity it would bring them as well.
- Jexie, on 05/27/2008, -1/+3I hate to keep bitching about this new comment system - but for the first time my reply (original reply to your comment - not this reply) has shown up under a completely different comment than I actually replied to. Maybe I clicked on the wrong reply link...but I don't think so.
- roket21, on 05/27/2008, -0/+10*****, you're right. Don't know where I was going with that. I guess I was trying to say that they could shove that ad up their ass for all I care.
- Jexie, on 05/27/2008, -2/+29They have a right to say it, and we have a right to let Ford know we won't be buying their products if they support it and a right to also say what we want about this person - whats your point?
- HarryBauzonia, on 05/27/2008, -166/+47...and of course the opposite thing happens on Digg every damned day that rolls and you hypocrites think it's ok.
Free speech applies to everyone, not just young punks who think that at the ages of 18-24, they know everything. I might remind you that in the U.S. we have freedom OF religion....a concept many of you wish to abolish so that you can force your own atheist religion onto everyone much as the North Koreans do. Everyone else's personal freedom threatens your goals.
Of course you kids are the products of single-moms who used time-outs instead of good ass-whuppin's, so I expect such stupidity from you. Get back to your video games and leave thinking to the grown-ups.- omnithought, on 05/27/2008, -23/+75Atheism isn't a religion, and no one's trying to force it, you stupid *****. How do you force the lack of belief in a god on anyone? What do you mean by "your goals"? Or are you one of those paranoid folks who think that resisting fundamentalism is somehow part of an "agenda"?
And since free speech applies to everyone, that means we can say what we like about morons who make ads like this and post ignorant crap like you do. Please, get a vasectomy.- opticwind, on 05/27/2008, -9/+10*****. Listen, it's not ok to force Christianity on others. But you can NOT possibly believe that many atheists want to abolish religion.
- danogburn, on 05/27/2008, -1/+15I want to abolish religion, but not by force. Critical thinking win eventually (i hope)
- DeathStrawberry, on 05/27/2008, -3/+7Wait, atheists DON'T want to abolish religion? So they just want to mock everyone who believes in God or a god, but let them continue believing because it's good entertainment?
At least Dawkins admits he DOES want to abolish religion (at least as we know it). - Ramble, on 05/27/2008, -1/+7A lot of atheists do want to abolish religion, but not through force.
- bullhead2007, on 05/27/2008, -1/+9I don't want to abolish religion. I just would like humanity to appreciate logic and skepticism to the point that religion is no longer necessary.
- DeathStrawberry, on 05/28/2008, -5/+1bullhead2007, that is THE SAME THING. The means is different, but the result is the same. But you have to realize that it's logic and skepticism that brings many people to believe in the Bible in the first place. Maybe a lot of people think it's completely retarded to believe the things written in the Bible, but that's a narrow view and billions of people worldwide stand as proof against you.
- Inohavehalos, on 05/27/2008, -4/+4dugg for calling him a stupid *****
- stonewaljacksn, on 05/27/2008, -16/+3omnithought, the stupid ***** is you. atheism is a worldview, christianity is a different worldview. get. the. *****. over. it. you stupid blind sheep.
so yeah, atheism and christianity ARE both religions, or you can say they ARE both philosophies on life if the Big Bad Religion word brings up all those mommy-daddy authority figure repressed issues.
and yeah, people will always defend their worldviews, just like you are defending yours as vehemently as an evangelical would. it's natural, because your worldview gives your life meaning. the difference is some people notice these things, and some dont.
did i mention that you are the stupid *****?- zmjone2992, on 05/27/2008, -0/+2still not a religion.
- dylanbr, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4Woah Woah Woah. I hardly ever log on to digg, but I had to in order to reply to this asinine comment.
Regilion is the belief of a god or a supernatural power that controls human destiny. Atheism is the lack of belief.
Atheists make no claims, therefore there is no doctrine to follow in Atheism....i.e. not a religion.
...and the big bang is a scientific theory, not a religion.
Could you be anymore wrong? - StarlessKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1I'll paraphrase what I heard someone else say once: If Atheism is a religion, then everything is a religion and nothing is a religion. You will destroy the very meaning of the word "religion" by making everything a religion; and everything will be a religion if you can consider Atheism (without Theism) a religion. Atheism is a philosophy. Christianity is a philosophy. Christianity is also a religion.
A square is a rectangle, a rectangle is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. - omnithought, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Atheism isn't a worldview. It's the lack of belief in god(s). A lack of belief in god is no more a worldview than a lack of belief in unicorns. I'm an aunicornist too...is aunicornism a religion?
- stockdam, on 05/27/2008, -7/+1"Please, get a vasectomy".....very mature comment........let me guess, you also watch the Simpsons.
- Travelsonic, on 05/27/2008, -2/+3Sounds like somebody knows the meaning of logical arguments. < / sarcasm>
Seriously, what the ***** does what one watch necessarily have to do with his maturity? I watch news, I watch shows college students usually don't watch on top of the popular favorites, yet when provoked, I don't hold back.
- Travelsonic, on 05/27/2008, -2/+3Sounds like somebody knows the meaning of logical arguments. < / sarcasm>
- opticwind, on 05/27/2008, -9/+10*****. Listen, it's not ok to force Christianity on others. But you can NOT possibly believe that many atheists want to abolish religion.
- sgiffy,
- omnithought, on 05/27/2008, -23/+75Atheism isn't a religion, and no one's trying to force it, you stupid *****. How do you force the lack of belief in a god on anyone? What do you mean by "your goals"? Or are you one of those paranoid folks who think that resisting fundamentalism is somehow part of an "agenda"?
