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- WordsnCollision, on 12/11/2008, -2/+271"Turns out that Cerberus CEO John Snow, who spent three-and-a-half lackluster, and some might say lap-doggish, years as President Bush's second Treasury secretary, is leading a who's who of crony capitalists in a lobbying campaign for a taxpayer bailout to 'salvage Cerberus' investment in Chrysler.'" Utterly disgusting yet oh so unsurprising.
- zachyarb, on 12/11/2008, -0/+186Hell, if we're dumb enough to give it to them, can you blame them for trying?
- Shiftgood, on 12/11/2008, -4/+168They're lucky that we're a bunch of pussies unlike the french... can you say Marie Antoinette?
Bury me all you want... but that man is still going to steal the money and get away with it. - Taintsmasher, on 12/11/2008, -1/+155"So gentlemen, what should we call our investment firm?"
"Something terrifying, but hopefully something that isn't taken already."
"How about Azrael?"
"Angel of Death, good one!"
"No, that's the guy who briefly took over for Batman when he had his back broken by Bane."
"What about Incubus? It's a demon who rapes women in their sleep!"
"Nah, some ***** band has that name"
"I've GOT it! Cerberus!"
"Do you mean Cerberus the three-headed dog who guards the gates of hell, or Cerebus the Aardvark?"
"Dog."
"Love it."
"Let's get some muh-***** bailouts!!!!!!!!!!" - 4321234, on 12/11/2008, -1/+131I googled some details of the Cerberus purchase of Chrysler from Daimler:
Cerberus pays $7.4 billion for an 80.1
percent share of Chrysler (all figures in
US dollars).
Daimler keeps a 19.9 percent equity
stake of Chrysler.
Pension and health care liabilities stay
with Chrysler, leaving Daimler essentially
free from that burden.
The structure of the deal is fascinating. Cerberus
pays $6.1 billion of the purchase price directly
into Chrysler and the remainder ($1.35 billion)
goes directly to Daimler. On the surface, it looks
like Daimler only receives about $1.4 billion for
their 80.1 percent equity stake in Chrysler.
However, Daimler also is going to invest about
$1.7 billion into Chrysler and will lay out
hundreds of millions in closing costs and other
fees. In effect, Daimler is paying an estimated
$650 million for the privilege of offloading
Chrysler. - boulder555, on 12/11/2008, -0/+92Good data ... good digg.
- jsffive, on 12/11/2008, -10/+96I've been struggling for the past twenty years... I don't have a house. I don't have a new car.
I've done my best to not play the usury game, and in the end, it's not going to make a difference, because I'm going to end up paying for a mistake that wasn't mine.
***** that guy standing on an assembly line, thinking he's ENTITLED to a high-paying job... and a pension... and medical coverage.
And at the same time, they're selling $40,000 gas-guzzlers?
***** any of you who think that THEIR business is "too big to fail".
Let the whole god-damned system collapse, and see if I notice a difference. I'm willing to bet that I won't.
You people won't be paying out money to "preserve our way of life"... You'll be preserving THEIR way of life. You're all a bunch of suckers, and well-dressed SLAVES.
But there's no need to worry. When the economic collapse comes, THEY'LL be ok...
Guys like Bill O'Reilly, and Keith Olbermann, THEY'LL be ok. They'll be taken care of. No need to worry about that. - sheeplescareme, on 12/11/2008, -6/+77they are not capitalists, they are corporatists. big difference! if they were capitalists, they would allow the markets to work rather than seeking government intervention or assistance.
- jerrycan, on 12/11/2008, -0/+57Why the hell would you spend your own money when you can spend someone else's?
- ccL1, on 12/11/2008, -4/+47You know, if we had a bit of Greek, French, Korean, or even Revolutionary America in us, we would rise up and riot. We can overthrow this sham we call a government and replace it with responsible people who won't give bailouts to the rich, paid for by the money that the poor use to feed their kids. Oh well, none of us will do anything about it anyways. The rich might as well get their bailouts and run away and point fingers at us.
- Cararan, on 12/11/2008, -3/+44Free Money to them.
- d3dm, on 12/11/2008, -1/+37In 2007, GM sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. Toyota, that same year, sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. GM lost 38.7 billion. Toyota made 17.7 billion. Therein lies the problem.
- PhrosTT, on 12/11/2008, -1/+36seriously.... it's like people who find tax loopholes.
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -11/+46Chrysler also makes the ***** cars of the three
- magoghm, on 12/11/2008, -4/+38If voting could change anything they would make it illegal.
- Tommydukes, on 12/11/2008, -5/+36Im not smart enough to comment
- JackpotCity, on 12/11/2008, -4/+35hey if there's free money on offer, stick your hand out.
- BullHunter, on 12/11/2008, -2/+30Someone is dishonest and misleading the government? Nah, surely not...
- goes211, on 12/11/2008, -1/+29First, I am against all bailouts. Banks, Insurance, Automakers, ... let them fail and companies that are better run will take over their assets and market share.
That being said, if the government is going to bailout automakers, why would they not bailout Chrysler? It sounds like the argument is that Chrysler has a rich parent company, so they don't need help. This same mentality is shown in people that want the government to bailout irresponsible home buyers but not help the people that have acted responsibly. These sorts of perverse incentives where the most irresponsible people are the ones that receive help are going to destroy this country if we continue down this path.
The unintended consequences of this will be felt for a long time. - sheeplescareme, on 12/11/2008, -9/+33we do not have capitalism as that requires free markets. they shot that in the foot with the creation of the federal reserve in 1913 and outright killed it with the regulations and government intervention of the new deal.
- BradBrown, on 12/11/2008, -1/+22Relax, we'll send those jobs to Mexico.
- moses141, on 12/11/2008, -0/+20The job of treasury secretary needs to be renamed con-artist in chief. This is just like Paulson and the bailout of AIG. Since Goldman Sachs was AIG's largest trading partner, bailing out AIG was essentially giving Goldman a free bailout without the government getting any stake.
Let's cut to the chase and start having these guys sworn in on a corporate stock certificate instead of a book, because that's who their allegiance is to. - SniperSlap, on 12/11/2008, -1/+18Well said.
- PhilMoskowitz, on 12/11/2008, -1/+18Ballsy name for a secretive private investment company.
- laserfish, on 12/11/2008, -0/+16Admitting that takes way more intelligence (also: balls) than your average comment.
- Gareth321, on 12/11/2008, -9/+23When you make money the sole goal or primary priority in a citizens life, as in free capitalism, greed is a near automatic response.
- ricksite, on 12/11/2008, -0/+14"I drive a Dodge Stratus!! You don't talk about my Dodge Stratus that way!!"
- crcurran, on 12/11/2008, -1/+15"Toyota doesn't have the retirees that GM has"
I understand the need for Unions; I realy do but the UAW is one of the main reasons why the American Auto Industry can't turn a profit. Compare the overall expense of an employee at an American Honda and Toyota plant to a Gm/Ford/Chrysler and you'll find a serious problem. For every $44 spent on an employee by Toyaota/Honda, GM/Ford/Chrysler spend $77. That will break any company.
In 2007, the UAW made consessions and made large cuts in pay and benfits but they still far exceed the foreign owned companies.
The other reason of course is the Big 3 ignoring the need for fuel efficient cars. Not spending their money effectively on more research but instead spending their money to lobby against fuel efficiency (CAFE standards). They deserve to crash and burn as a pawn of the oil industry.
Should I feel for the workers? no. Should I feel for the Big 3? no. Should I? no but do I? yes.
I think a small bailout buys us time to get the Obama administration in place and we also can monitor the change the Big 3 promise.
By the way, $40,000 for a Chevy Volt in late 2010? How about a Chinese plugin hybrid for ~$24,000 by mid-2009? Warren Buffet placed his money where he thinks he should. He bought 10% of the chinese company BYD who will produce those cars. This new plugin hybrid will debut in January 2009 at an autoshow. - Socolco, on 12/11/2008, -0/+14Fitting that it's named after the Greek Cerberus which guards the gates of hell only allowing the dead to enter, but not leave.
- DemiRonin, on 12/11/2008, -5/+19I didn't know this... Front page please
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -0/+14*Points at French Revolution*
Death to the King! Long live the Emperor! - Methusalah, on 12/11/2008, -0/+14I know plenty of people who would love to have a job that pays that much right now.
- linagee, on 12/11/2008, -0/+14 I want a bailout too! Because I can!
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -1/+14Of all the people involved in the upper echelons of Cerberus, I would never have expected Dan Quayle of all people to be one of the leading mouthpieces.
- kemp34, on 12/11/2008, -3/+16@humanerror: sorry buddy, you do not get to make the claim that our current system is capitalism without proving it. The fact that government is so intertwined with the corporate process is extreme evidence that this is NOT capitalism (where failure is FAILURE) but, instead crony corporatism with soft socialism thrown in to placate the liberals.
- danwgre, on 12/11/2008, -0/+13Man, I wish it was that easy to protect what is rightfully yours. I truly do.
- bombboyer, on 12/11/2008, -0/+12God you guys all haven't really thought this through at all.
I strongly disagree with the general argument that just because Chrysler is not public, it is less deserving of a bailout than Ford and GM. You may be surprised at the actual ownership of Ford and GM - the majority of their shares are held by investment houses similar to Cerberus. 71% of Ford’s outstanding equity is institutionally owned, and in addition, 40% of its voting rights are controlled by the Ford family. GM is 78% institutionally owned.
Also, why is the public not aghast that Ford and GM cannot raise additional equity from their existing shareholders? If Ford and GM cannot float additional equity on the public market, why should the taxpayer invest? The answer is that none of the Big 3 can raise additional equity because their market cost of capital is astronomical. This is why the government has to step in - neither the private nor public markets are willing to make any sort of further bet on these companies.
In addition, Cerberus has agreed to forfeit any profit it may make on its Chrysler investment if it receives government money. Ford and GM’s public shareholders have clearly made no such promise.
To be clear - I am in no way in favor of a bailout for any of the Big 3. These are sick companies, and they need to die. However, discriminating against Chrysler because they are privately held is really inappropriate.
I wonder how many negative diggs I can get for this one... - DMRsweden, on 12/11/2008, -0/+12Wikipedia: "Although Cerberus owns 80% of now troubled Chrysler Corporation, it has refused to inject cash into Chrysler, as Sen. Bob Corker pointed out at a hearing about the economic needs of the American automobile industry on December 4, 2008. In response to questioning at a hearing before the House committee on December 5, 2008 by Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, Chrysler President and CEO Robert Nardelli said that Cerebrus' other fiduciary obligations to its other investors and investments prohibited it from injecting capital."
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -3/+14John Snow is another Obama buddy... watch and learn change!! LOL! Why do you think the democratic house already passed the bridge bailout loan to the big 3.
- smacksaw, on 12/11/2008, -0/+11So Cerberus essentially wants money to keep a business they virtually got for free from going out of business? Here's a company they bought only to sell again, one they have no interest in and people wonder why they're getting money? It's blackmail. They don't lose anything more than they're going to lose ANYWAY if it goes down the crapper.
Either they get the money or they take their ball and go home. - Chirp08, on 12/11/2008, -4/+15Kinda funny because before Daimler, Chrysler was making fuel efficient cars, had just bounced back from a low point in which they had to request a loan which was then repaid within a year and were on the right track. Daimler brought a lot of great things with their Mercedes engineering but along with that came the inability to control spending.
The only glimmer of hope I can see is if the appointed "Car Czar" is the the guy who saved Chrysler, Lee Iacocca. I honestly thing that Ford and Chrysler will come out of this fine, GM is going to the be the one is going to change completely. Ford and Chrysler both have been churning out numerous hybrids and electric vehicles in concept form over the past 6 months, GM has made just the Volt, and a $80,000 hybrid Denali that still gets less then 20mpg. - weasler7, on 12/11/2008, -1/+12can you say french revolution?
- Betrayer, on 12/11/2008, -1/+12so when will i be able to walk up to a chrysler dealer and pickup my new free car i just paid 10k in taxes for?
all cars in the bailout become public property?
oh well ill just go firebomb the ONE car i was taxed on and call it even. - zomgflamer, on 12/11/2008, -3/+14What the government is doing is unconstitutional. Time to use our second amendment right when the IRS (another unconstitutional org) come knocking on ur door to ask why you didn't pay taxes for this year.
- altidude, on 12/11/2008, -0/+11I have news for you; $14 an hour is about what a person with that skill set should be making. These jobs are far from rocket science.
- ChuckDees, on 12/11/2008, -2/+12Government propping up big business has been happening for years.
The only reason Republicans all of the sudden have an issue with it, is because of how public the bailouts have been.
If they could have done it in private, they (Republicans) wouldn't act like they were opposed to them.
This is the economic system we have. Hybrid socialism or welfare for the wealthy.
Whatever for the rest of us.
Sad that it took a recession/depression for people to notice how much corporate America is supported by government. - EricMiIIer, on 07/10/2009, -0/+10I see a Senator that just earned his next term.
- Methusalah, on 12/11/2008, -1/+11the election is over... time to look to other possible solutions.
- scottblystone, on 12/11/2008, -1/+11Yes we can!
blame them, that is. - linagee, on 12/11/2008, -1/+11Your money to them.
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