Are efficient autos a tailpipe dream? Nova Future Car NOW! watch!
pbs.org — Two decades ago, physicist and energy expert Amory Lovins came up with a notion he called "Hypercar," a general class of vehicles so fuel-efficient it might, Lovins hoped, radically reduce oil consumption in the U.S. and worldwide. Many automakers are beginning to embrace the underlying principles of Hypercar.
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- ChottoMatte, on 04/23/2008, -2/+5I'll take one of those Toyota 1/X's. They're going to need to come up with a better way to refer to reducing the weight of cars than "light-weighting"...that's not going to instill a whole lot of confidence in the consumer.
- videographer, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2You don't have to have a heavy car to be safe. New alloys of steel and aluminum are much more crash-resistant at similar weight levels. And smart design, like crumple-zones, can make accidents more survivable with lighter structural components.
But, that takes thought and research, two things Detroit is not too keen on. When all the Big 3 can come up with to sell cars is to clone pony cars from the 60's, you gotta know that the game is up for them. Other than for the workers that will lose their jobs, my sympathy is limited. - davidrools, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1The Aptera pretty much checks everything off this list and will be available in California by the end of the year.
-Lightweight composite body w/ aluminum frame, crumple zones, and a passenger compartment shaped to deflect an impact underneath
-Streamlined body for super low drag and low rolling resistance tires
-Solar powered accessories w/ undersized heating and AC systems made possible by full time solar powered climate control (that stays on when parked)
-Battery electric power for the most readily available, cleanest and getting cleaner source of power. Series hybrid coming later for those needing to drive long distances or make it their only car. In the hybrid, fuel efficiency is vastly extended due to the previous list items.
- videographer, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2You don't have to have a heavy car to be safe. New alloys of steel and aluminum are much more crash-resistant at similar weight levels. And smart design, like crumple-zones, can make accidents more survivable with lighter structural components.
- AlwaysAwake, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3Not just lighter, but stronger and safer, involves studying the realities of actual usage of the product by the consumers, as well as the realities off the conditions under which they are driving. There is not be a "one size fits all". Consider this: how much fuel is wasted in traffic jams in megalopolis areas during rush hours, due to stop and go conditions, and inefficient slow speeds. Is anybody working on this huge waste of energy ?
- interbeing, on 04/23/2008, -1/+0For the most part the issue with fuel being wasted during traffic jams due to stop and go conditions has been addressed already by hybrid vehicles. This is because most of these vehicles will automatically shut down the gasoline engine when you come to a stop. I'm sure there are further improvements that could be made in this area, but I think this is a good start at least.
- mckinnej, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3It's called mass transit, aka buses, subways, etc. The problem is most people are too "important" to use them and they suck in many cities.
- GiggleStick, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2Amen on the suckage. Unfortunately, it's a catch-22. If nobody's riding it (because it's dirty and slow), then they can't get the money or see the reason to improve it. If they won't improve it, nobody will use it. Only the big Metro Areas seem to be able to make it decent! Oh, and please only use hard plastic seats in public transit and clean them every day. I will not sit on a nasty stained cloth seat that god knows how many gonorrhea sufferers in hot shorts have sat on.
- halleyscomet, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I use mass transit to get to and from work every day. Because of traffic conditions it's about the same commuting time either way, but the train is far less stress.
The amusing thing is when you see one of these "I'm too good for the Train" folks actually ON the train. They look around with mingled horror, disgust and paranoia, as if they were riding with unwashed hobos who were glaring at them while muttering about mugging someone. The best part is when one of these elitists realizes they're lost and that the need to ask for directions.- AgentGulo, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0yah, those people always make me laugh, the DC metro is a prime example of a good alternate public transportation system which I've ridden on many times, you don't get the freedom of the road but you do get the freedom to read, listen to music, look at the scenery or even talk while someone else controls the trip. Another thing that amuses me is when people wait at the doors of the metro and as soon as they open, they run out the door and all the way up the escalators, regardless of whether they Really need to be anywhere or not, it's like they think the place they are trying to get to won't be there when they reach it..
- masterofsw, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2I heard of a Hybrid car that handles this well. Um, I think a few automakers have them now.
- 911ArtStudent, on 04/23/2008, -2/+13But do people value efficiency? From what I have seen image, luxury, and utility count for much more when choosing a car
- Slovenian6474, on 04/23/2008, -0/+9I don't know about you, but efficiency is the 2nd thing i look at when shopping for a car.
- had3l, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2What is the 1st? Awesomeness?
- GiggleStick, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1Pussy-wagon-itude.
- had3l, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2What is the 1st? Awesomeness?
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+12At 3.50 a gallon you're damn right they do.
- Slovenian6474, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Intermittent wipers you say!? SOLD!
- dddavid, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0Can't we have all of that WITH efficiency? Even a luxury car can be made lighter, and although you might have to make a couple of aerodynamic compromises to get that luxury look, improvements over the status quo are still quite possible.
- Slovenian6474, on 04/23/2008, -0/+9I don't know about you, but efficiency is the 2nd thing i look at when shopping for a car.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+16No its not a "tailpipe dream". Its just that we need an alternate source of fuel and tech, not a 100 year old combustion engine running on dead dinosaur juice that belchs out poison.
All these ads I keep seeing on TV showing some token hippy working for an oil (shell, BP, Exxon etc.) company assuring us that hes working hard on alternate energy and that the world is safe on his watch. Its ***** *****. Oil companies need to be neutered in order to REALLY kick start the search for other energy sources.- regeya, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3Yeah...even CHINA has a better alternative energy program than we have. It's embarrassing.
- FREETHINKER2008, on 04/23/2008, -0/+5Oil companies will never embrace alternatives unless they own them.
- rlh1, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Oil companies do not own the automobile companies, and the automobile companies don't own the oil companies.
GM is in a tail spin as is Ford. Do you really believe that they will not try to make these revolutionary cars just to keep Exxon happy ?
And the alternative fuels. Germany and Japan import 100% of all their oil. They are not under the thumb of the oil companies. If they could develop alternatives to oil they would. oil was only $10/barrel 12 years ago.
Now that it is $120 they will pursue it more.- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1"GM is in a tail spin as is Ford."
Thats because US cars just dont cut it anymore in an open and competitive market. The Japs an Europeans have us whipped in almost every catagory.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1"GM is in a tail spin as is Ford."
- cdubd, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3Thank you for this quote: "dead dinosaur juice"
- decay, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1If ti wasn't for "dead dinosaur juice" there is no way we would be where we are. Everything you do has something to do with oil.
- popnwave, on 04/23/2008, -1/+5I think car weight due to safety features has effectively kept MPG ratings down along with this inherent need for horsepower out the ying yang. I love FAST cars as much as anyone, but honestly it is a waste to sit in stop and go traffic every day in your 5-15 MPG sports car or Hummer. I don't think those are the people complaining about gas prices though, since they obviously have cash to burn.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2*****. European safety standards are higher than ours and their cars are more efficient.
Our manufacturers make ***** cars. Thats the long and short of it right there.- RizzoFrank, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0They have no emissions standards though. So for getting higher mpgs they have to breathe in ***** air all their life.
- DeadPanDan, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1alanr19 might have said it more politely, but he's right. Safety features are not what is weighing down our cars. The perception that weight=safety is what is weighing down our cars. This idea is not only wrong but effectively amounts to an arms race for heavier vehicles. As far as safety goes, the current design capabilities of these car companies are much better than the public gives them credit for.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2*****. European safety standards are higher than ours and their cars are more efficient.
- willjeffery, on 04/23/2008, -5/+5The amount of energy that goes into the actual production of BioDesiel products is far greater than the benefits of using it in a handful of cars across a nation.
I'll stick with my Prius, thanks.- notoneofus, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2That's not true. Some *biofuel* production (including ethanol) generates low levels of positive energy. *Biodiesel* has much higher efficiency.
Read #14 in this article: http://digg.com/environment/Biodiesel_Mythbuster_2 ...
"The vast majority of literature on the subject shows a positive energy balance, meaning that more energy is available in the fuel than is used to grow the crop, press the seeds, process the oil into biodiesel, and distribute the product. The most common numbers I’ve seen say about 2-3 times more energy is produced, or 1 unit of energy in equals 2-3 units of energy out. [don’t leave it to me, see for yourself: (1), (2)]. Compare this to corn-grain ethanol, which optimistically produces 25% more energy than is put into it (1 unit in equals 1.25 units out)."- regeya, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Good catch. And even if it were true that it's too energy intensive, few people talk about augmenting some of the power requirements with solar, or about going with a mostly organic growing process, thereby eliminating the need of fossil/mined fertilizer. On some crops, yields are lower but the production cost is also lower...and some plant materials could be dumped into a gobar gas plant, providing a source of natural gas power for the diesel production, as well as producing a slurry which could be put back onto the crops.
If it sounds like a pipe dream...okay, let's live in our dream world while THIRD-WORLD COUNTRIES ARE DOING IT ALREADY.
- regeya, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Good catch. And even if it were true that it's too energy intensive, few people talk about augmenting some of the power requirements with solar, or about going with a mostly organic growing process, thereby eliminating the need of fossil/mined fertilizer. On some crops, yields are lower but the production cost is also lower...and some plant materials could be dumped into a gobar gas plant, providing a source of natural gas power for the diesel production, as well as producing a slurry which could be put back onto the crops.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -3/+1@willjefferym want to back that up with some facts/evidence/links to reputable sites?
Or are you just another retard that repeats hearsay because it make you feel intelligent? - roseap, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Not to mention that the amount of energy it takes to build a prius is far greater than a VW TDI.
I'll stick with my biodiesel burning VW Golf TDI, thanks - gta3uzi, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1You know, if you bought a Hummer and a Prius at the same time, it would take roughly 10 years for the two to be energy equivalent. I.e., the energy put in to making the batteries for that Prius (and the replacements when they die) is enough to offset the gas savings for 10 years compared to simply buying and driving a Hummer for 10 years w/ average use.
- notoneofus, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2That's not true. Some *biofuel* production (including ethanol) generates low levels of positive energy. *Biodiesel* has much higher efficiency.
- joebaloney, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I'm afraid all these cars that are always 5-10 years off are just the car manufacturers way of not having to do anything by always choosing untenable technology and as soon as the technology starts to make sense, they will latch on to the next untenable technology until they have absolutely no choice.
- FREETHINKER2008, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2I agree, they are raising the mpg's cars have to get but not until 2015 or 2020. They need that much time?
- RizzoFrank, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0Takes 3-5 years from concept to development on the average. Right now we are working on 2010-2011 models. So do the math.
- FREETHINKER2008, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2I agree, they are raising the mpg's cars have to get but not until 2015 or 2020. They need that much time?
- ElAssoWipo, on 04/23/2008, -1/+16NO.
Now build a ***** electric train infrastructure so I can ride one going at 500km/h.- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -2/+6LOL. And be quick about it godammit!!!
- RizzoFrank, on 04/23/2008, -2/+0Please learn how the auto industry works before commenting. Thank you.
- DeadPanDan, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Welcome to Trolling 101. Have a seat.
- bluetytanium, on 04/23/2008, -1/+3http://www.aptera.com/
- videographer, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Hey, I'd drive it. They just have to be able to deliver it.
- davidrools, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1These will actually be available in southern California by the end of the year. I'm number 1363 on the reservation list :)
- physco827, on 04/23/2008, -0/+5Bring on the hypercars. I for one hate driving around because one station is $3.46 and the other is $3.49. I know I'm not the only one that does that and is also pissed off when I actually see those prices. I hope that we will see more cars like this soon, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like corporate america views the situation the same.
- jaytek13, on 04/23/2008, -2/+0You do of course realize that for a 12 gallon tank the difference in price amounts to 36 cents? That's why I don't bother looking around. Just go to whatever gas station that isn't off of a highway ramp and you'll be fine.
- Abomonog, on 04/23/2008, -3/+3I've said it before and I'll say it again. You cannot make a fuel efficient car with American safety standards without inadvertently boosting the horsepower higher than the U.S.D.O.T. will allow on the streets. We have hit the power curve vs. efficiency plateau. We can no longer keep efficiency up while keeping horsepower down. Although a car that goes 200 MPH and gets 100 MPG while doing it is still impossible I predict we are going to soon see econoboxes keeping up with Mustangs and getting 3 times the gas mileage just before the restrictor plate becomes law and the fuel efficiency is again stunted by a useless and outdated part (EG: The catalytic converter, A device that was needed in the 70's and 80's for pollution control but is a legacy part in todays cars with exhaust recycling technology)
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+7European safety standards are higher and their cars are more efficient.
How do you explain that? "power curve vs. efficiency plateau" LOL you moron. - masterofsw, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Horsepower is not a problem. Efficiency is not a problem. Getting Americans to drive smaller vehicles is.
My vehicle is 100% gas powered, 1/4 of the cost, gets 4-5 times the mileage of a mini-van or SUV, AND can out run almost any sportscar on the road today. They are commercially available and actually all over the road around you today.
(HINT: 2 wheels)
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -1/+7European safety standards are higher and their cars are more efficient.
- edger2006, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Hyper Car, I'm in, I'll Buy.
- vofuse, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Preview image reminded me of Tron.
- alanr19, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3Light-cycles! That's what the eggheads should be working on!!
- bshensky, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Big Nova blunder: In the last vignette, the narrator speaks of, and the caption below, refers to a "Nissan Bevel" concept car. But the vehicle *shown* is the Ford Airstream Concept microvan on display at the North American International Auto Show back in January 2008.
I'm not sure who benefits from this foible, Ford or Nissan. But, hey, Nova, get your facts right. - regeya, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1As others have said here, we need workable alternate energy programs, alternate forms of transportation such as an electric train network, and finally, an end to the decades-old cycle of prototype cars that get fantastic mileage but are always at least a decade off.
- calebh, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2You can watch the entire program here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/program.html
- videographer, on 04/23/2008, -0/+5I watched the show in TV last night (Hey! Remember TV?)
Of every Nova program I have ever watched - and that is a large number - this one was by far the
Worst. Episode. Ever.
I like Click and Clack, at least their newspaper column, but they were worse than useless in this show, never asking the right questions, mugging for the camera, un-tracking the conversation with non-sequiter comments and letting the auto industry flacks spew their BS without question. You could tell the voiceover was added when the producers realized C&C didn't provide enough real content to fill an hour.
We don't have to stay chained to the gas pump. Highway-speed, medium range electric cars are here today - watch "Who Killed The Electric Car" if you need evidence. Google or Wikipedia Toyota Rav4-EV for the info on over 400 fully electric SUVs that are running every day with range in the 150 mile area. Then learn that the patents for batteries to make this happen TODAY are controlled by Chevron - an oil company with a LOT to lose if they loosen their grip on our collective wallet.
Nova: Shame on you. Click and Clack: Love ya, boys, but stay on the radio. You blew your chance here. - dmullins78, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1All modern cars today have crush zones. In an accident, these zones absorb some of the energy and reduce the force of impact on the passengers. Since carbon-fiber is so tough and indestructible, how do you create a crush zone?
- Freonce, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Did you watch the part where they related it to how a nascar crashes? It just shatters on impact and the driver walks away. I think they'd use the same principle there. Though I'm sure measures would be put in place so it doesn't shatter completely. I wouldn't buy a car if i knew once accident would destroy my car. Though that's pretty much how it happens now.
- mliving, on 04/23/2008, -0/+4I have a lot of respect of PBS and I'm a financial supporter but I was very disappointed in their Car of the Future show last evening.
First the hosts where dead on when they said there is NO NEED for a 500 HP vehicle on our roads today or ever.
Second I was screaming at the TV when the only electric vehicle they showed was that useless Chevy Volt that still needs a power source. The Volt is yet another *****' concept smoke screen that GM and other big US car makers use instead of actually developing usable technology like Honda, Toyota, Think (Norway) or ZENN (Canada).
Which brings me to my final point. US car makers have been blowing concept smoke up our asses for TOO LONG. North American legislators MUST force these idiots to start producing REAL alternative powered vehicles within the next 5 years. PERIOD. Enough of this "If we only had a dilithium crystal" *****! - aa90digg, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Some lovin' for Lovins
- LoudMusic, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1Why did I have to click a link labeled "Launch Interactive" to watch a non-interactive video? And that video, by the way, included nothing I've not seen before or any technology that wasn't already in use somewhere. It's just not all in use in a single example of an automobile.
- atomicrobot, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Light cycles are on the game grid.
- urbandistrict, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1hahahahahahaha! tailpipe dreams....CLEVER!!!!
- djaybe, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0this should make for some interesting crashes in the future. heavy SUVs bumping light weight ones off the bridge. maybe they could float? maybe the insurance companies will increase fees for older heavy vehicles?
- wonderworm, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Agree with mliving. What we can do is convince everyone we know to support the candidate who will do the most for raising fuel efficiency standards and supporting alternative propulsion technologies like electric, natural gas, and hydrogen. The only candidate who will do that is OBAMA. So you know what we need to do..........GET HIS ASS IN OFFICE. And then put Senators and congressmen who also "get it" about and cars and what it takes to have millions of 100mpg cars on the road NOW.
- bincoder, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2They need a program in drivers ed to teach efficiency and common sense. I see people all the time who pull into a parking spot at a shopping center then sit there, with the engine running and headlights shining away while they spend 15 minutes looking at coupons, the checkbook or doing their hair and makeup. Why do they do that? Are they afraid a jet aircraft will run them over if the lights and engine are switched off while parked? Many also tend to race up to another car or light then slam on the brakes. They will burn twice as much fuel and cause accidents to save .001 nanoseconds and all of 3 feet of distance on their trip. The roads are hardly better. Here I-17 has a ramp for each and every road going east/west resulting in each and every east/west road being gridlocked with peeps getting on and off the interstate so they can drive a half mile to a store, rather than going another way which is faster and cheaper. It would help if the limited access were actually limited access. Close 2/3 of the ramps to and from I-17 and the interstate traffic will flow faster, not be a parking lot, also the east/west traffic will flow better by removing that whole stop sit wait cycle. All that eats more in gas than anything else. It doesn't matter if you have an suv or econobox if you don't know how to drive it. Small cars woof the fuel down too when the driver insists on flooring it everywhere they go, and sitting in traffic will make your new car that gets 1 billion miles per gallon get Zero miles per gallon and no technology now or in the future is going to change the awful driving conditions and crowds of ignorant people who shouldn't be allowed to ride a bike, much less drive a car.
- FrancisHC, on 04/23/2008, -1/+0I was reading an interesting article in Autoweek talking about the evolution of the efficient car - it made a good point: We had more efficient cars two decades ago.
A 2008 Toyota Prius is rated for 46 MPG - the same as a 1989 Geo Metro.
To boot, the Metro was made for much less money and resources and is free from environmental issues such as battery recycling and disposal.
Someone pointed out that from an environmental standpoint, it would be better to buy a Toyota Corolla instead of a Prius, and donate the $10000 you save to offset 2000 *tonnes* of carbon dioxide.
Hybrids are a triumph of marketing - they make people feel good for being green and are successful as a symbol to all your neighbors how environmentally conscious you are. - KILLSTRUCTO, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2There is not enough Carbon Fiber to Build cars with. lately there has been a mass shortage because of the war. The army is using most of it up.
- Whammo, on 04/24/2008, -1/+1Booooring...
- silverleaves, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2Not boring! This option for a car should be made for the people. but of course what would happen to the oil profits if our cars went farther on a gallon of gas? 30 years ago I had a little VW Bug and it went forever on a tank of gas. So what do they do? They take this incredible auto and stop making it. It was too efficient.
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