What is Digg?130 Comments
- Ninjab3ar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+101Until a podcast can stop to answer the questions I ask it, classrooms will continue to exist.
- strangerzero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+63Yes, they will. Interaction with other people is half of a person's education.
- otheruser, on 10/12/2007, -2/+52Yea... ok...
I still remember my elementary school science book: "By the year 2000, it is likely man will have constructed numerous bases on the Moon, and by 2010, it is likely we will begin colonizing Mars. Rocket trips may become as common as riding your school bus!" (grossly paraphrased)
I'm actually wearing this shirt right now in protest:
http://www.threadless.com/product/63/Damn_Scientists - bradspry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40Podcast? Twenty years? Bizarre. We'll have that Matrix brain download thing by then.
- goostoff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+35How about, will podcasts still exist in 20 years.
My guess, no. The term will be replaced by another buzzword for pre-recorded. - SlackerCSB, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30This may seem like a reach to a lot of diggers... but the social aspect of school is pretty important too.
Have you ever met a kid that was home schooled that didn't turn out to be socially awkward? - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26Yes.
Every home-schooled person I've dealt with has been socially more adept than their public schooled counterpart.
Most were running businesses, or had well established hobies/sports well before what would have been "graduation" in the ed biz. One was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, studying whales, at 16, while communicating through a satellite link in the off times. Quite a remarkable man, I'm sorry that I lost touch with him. That was 7 years ago.
Others were polite, they dealt well with adults and young children, could carry on a solid conversation, and used the language very well.
Now just to get this straight, you _expect_ teenagers _not_ to be socially awkward? By Cromm, "social" interaction is one of the hardest lessons that a human being has to learn. It takes decades for most people to gain the confidence to interact with others without awkwardness. - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21"Have you ever met a kid that was home schooled that didn't turn out to be socially awkward?"
Hell, I went to a public school, and I'm still socially awkward. - Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I'm thinking you don't interact with the same people I do at college.
- LaurenceHerbert, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20I had an English exam a few weeks back that told me to write about if schools would be replaced by computers in the future. I said no, because even though the Internet is a great source of knowledge it cannot provide people will proper social situations, or teach a young child a language such as English.
But I don't know what is going to happen in 20 years, if you read this comment in 20 years and your being educated by a computer flame me as much as you want ! - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22"Socialization", the last desperate straw of those who want to continue the government coercive education monopoly, when it has failed in every other metric.
Academic performance? Nope, private and home schools consistently out-perform public schools.
Price/performance? At $10,000 per student per year, I'd rather wait until the kid is 17 and send them to a good college. It would be cheaper than 12 years public school and then no college, by far.
So what is left? "Socialization." "Interaction with other people is half of a person's education."
Sure. Let's lock the kids in a room, with one tyrant at the front and kids only their own age, asking permission even to take a piss, and call that "socialization".
Meanwhile, the homeschool kids are out in the community, working with people, running businesses, dealing with others who are older, younger, even the same age, learning from many different people.
A few years of prison in the public school, don't be surprised when "socialization" includes bullying, drugs, teenage pregnancy, the "generation gap", and other things just to relieve the boredom. - Corrosionx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16You don't need the formal setting of a classroom or a school to do that. Socializing is an innate human need, and with or without schools it will happen. Probably in a much better way too (bullies that don't belong in schools but are forced to attend won't make life miserable for other students).
Home schooling associations fulfill every social needs and extracurricular activities children have. - drake546, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13bullies belong in the public school system like rape belongs in prison.
Public schools are 90% government funded day care. The small number of good teachers are so horrifically outnumbered by bad teachers and administrators as to make them effectively zero. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12of course we won't have classes, we'll just wake up in the morning and take knowledge pills
- stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I've had several home-schooled friends, and they are some of the most intelligent and stable people I have ever known, especially for my age group.
Unfortunately, strict home-schooling (little interaction with others, literally going to school at home, with nothing to replace the social interaction of normal school) doesn't always work; usually they end up being somewhat socially inept, having strange, "ingrown" habits and being generally sort of weird. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@ a_madman,
What problems? I'm very curious, because the home school students that I see and have dealt with are far more motivated than the public schooled.
It doesn't hurt that 3-4 hours a day homeschooled keeps the kids accademically well beyond what their 6-8 hour public schooled "peers" are learning - Aero1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14this article is stupid. just like they predicted 50 years ago that by 1997 we would have flying cars and housing on the moon. retards.
- Rian80, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Is there more interaction with other people in a classroom where the professor stands at the front and occasionally takes questions or on a podcast's blog? One 10 minute lesson from one of these podcasts gets upwards of 50 discussion comments from learners and educators all over the world. That's not including the discussion that the lesson generates in forums and personal blogs.
- scroundy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Yes
- Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Again, I would agree if I had any reason to suspect that this is true. However, it is incredibly easy to go to classes and remain anonymous to those around you--in fact, in larger universities, that's all that happens. You have to try pretty hard to build a circle of friends when you never see the same people even twice a week. Nobody's saying all colleges will disappear, they're saying it's a viable opportunity in some circumstances.
- Ninjab3ar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I prefer the Classroom. you wont get answers in real time on a blog. What takes 5 minutes for a response in real life might take a day or two on a blog.
- CaptMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10While I truly enjoy listening to podcasts, many of which are educational, I can only imagine the horrible morlock-like mutant people brought up with a podcast education.
Like many above have said, a big part of school is the real human interaction with other people. Everyone has to learn how to deal with people from all walks of life at some point. - antifreze, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Yes
- Cerialthriller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I went to public school and didnt interact with any of those morons. They only teach you that life is a popularity contest. I can be the best student in the school, but some idiot with rocks in his head tackles some other guy like a neanderthal in a friday night game and he's a hero. Oh well, now im an engineer and hes still flipping burgers at the local burger king. Turns out even though he has a degree from an athletic scholarship, people dont give decent jobs to high school hero athletes. Classrooms do not need to exist. Even if they didnt use podcasts, there is no reason with today's techology you couldnt have a live stream of a teacher who can answer questions as well. It'd be nice being able to go AFK or be playing WoW on my other PC while listening to some woman. I mean *****, this technology exists right now in porn, i can pay $5 a minute to tell some slut what to take off or where to stick her fingers, so i dont see why i cant have a teacher communicating with me this way. Now if you could put the porn chick with the teachers lesson... theres an at home college business model
- otheruser, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9that's what they said about the internet too.
- sanza, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Am I the only person who read the description as "Wii classrooms will exist in 20 years?"
Probably so.... - fluxion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7i think the best candidate for replacing classrooms arrived hundreds of years ago in the form of books.
i'll take a book over a podcast anyday. - JeffreyAtW, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9This is categorized under Apple for some reason. Could everyone flag this as "Wrong Topic?"
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@ eleventybillion,
You'll get no argument from me that individuals are different that what works for one will work for all or even most. Nor will I make any defense of "Christian" or for that matter any other "faith-based" education.
The "public schools" are doing exactly what they were designed to do: Keep the large majority of the population educated only to the extent that they will make good soldiers and factory workers, while the elite use private education methods to keep their own families on top.
This is not some made-up conspiracy theory. These are the stated goals by those who designed the coercive public school system.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/
Neither would I try to argue for 100% home schooling, because that would be insane. The principle of the division of labor is that there are going to be people better at teaching than others, and those people deserve to be rewarded for that skill.
I had three good teachers during my 12 years of forced labor for the crime of being young. All three were combat veterans, two from WW2, one from Vietnam. Maybe Heinlein had a real insight when he wrote _Starship Troopers_. Those three would be teachers whether the school were pubic or private or by contract, because they were _excellent_ teachers.
What I do assert is that it is the _coercive_ nature of the public school system that is what is actively destructive to education. Forcing those inmates, ahem, I mean "students", with neither the aptitude nor inclination to schooling to remain in the system drags the system down and prevents other students from getting ahead and learning what they could.
But part of the purpose of the public school is to keep young people out of the workforce, so instead they languish for 12 years, waiting until they are finally released, before they can get out and get on with the real effort of finding some way to live. An effort for which they have been given no information what so ever, because the "public school" curriculum is defined not by teachers, and not by the people in the community in question. It is defined by politicians, bureaucrats, and worst of all members of the Teachers Union. A Union whose prime motivation is not education at all, but to maintain and expand the employment of its members.
Remove the coercive monopoly. Eliminate forced funding, abolish mandatory attendance laws. Let the free-market make the commodity of "education" as cheap and efficient as every other commodity is that are not run by government. Allow competition create interesting, innovative and effective solutions to the "problems" of education.
Churches and other community and charity organizations will, without doubt, step up and provide basic education, the "three Rs", just as they now provide pre-school and daycare services. The retired aerospace engineer down the street will tutor mathematics for $5/hour to students with interest and aptitude, just as his wife teaches piano now to students with interest and aptitude.
Will "podcasts" be a major part of education in 20 years? For some it will, others not. But one thing we can be certain of: Unless the coercive monopoly on schooling is repealed, unless there is real _choice_ and responsibility for education by the individuals with the greatest motivation to acquire good educations for the children: parents, we will see no improvement in education regardless of the medium utilized. - mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Probably not, because by then the world will have been taken over by giant robots......or monkeys. But not "monkey robots" because that's just silly.
- chatwithaninja, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I'm sorry, did someone allude that schools provide proper social situations??
What I remember from school was kids sticking to like groups, avoiding other groups, and picking on lesser (in their mind) groups. Is this considered proper social situations? Funny how I've never been beat up for my lunch money when I was eating at longhorn steaks with co-workers... - jakatak, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8The Classroom is already fading today. here are the reasons why?
1. Teachers don't know the material well enough to teach. (i.e. baseball coach teaching English)
2. Too many disciplinary problems in school.
3. Home schooling is becoming easier to do and only requires 3 hours a day. good for parents and kids. This explains my #2 reason. Too much time punishing little johnny in public school and not enough time teaching.
4. Too many unnecessary classes like wood shop and metal shop. We are not carpenters and blacksmiths any longer.
5. Necessary things aren't being taught like balancing a check book, investing, doing laundry, and computer science.
These are just a few reasons the class room is failing. You probably have your own reasons to add to this list. - eleventybillion, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12@CurtHowland
Dated a girl for 3 years who was home-schooled until her sophomore year of high school. Very bright girl, very socially awkward. Books and close neighbors were her only friends growing up. Very close with her parents.
Your illustration of "out there in the community, running businesses, interacting with people of all ages" paints a very optimistic view of how home-schooling (and maybe you were referring to private schools, but I'll get to that) can help to rear children. My experience (limited to only 2 people I know who were home-schooled) is that there is some residual awkwardness and a few gaps in their overall education. Spelling, believe it or not, was a big area in which both people I know who were home-schooled fall very short.
As to private school, my girlfriend has 4 years of private high-school to thank for her HUGE deficit in science and math going into college. Granted, she went to a Christian (read: "science is the devil, and you don't need math when you've got Jesus") school. As she is striving to be a Pharmacist, she has had to work harder than anyone I've ever known to overcome those challenges. She qualified to participate in our state's Running Start program while in school, but couldn't do it because her school had ***** Bible study that conflicted with the class times.
Please don't let my disdain for Christian private schools and home-schooling taint my main point, which is this: The scenario you've described is lacking realism, and I would suggest that while the ratio is probably much different, the overall number of students that go on to achieve bigger and better things from alternative education is roughly the same as those who come from public schools. - MrLunar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Stupid question. And I seriously hope no one tries.
- joe0891, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ eleventybillion
I don't know what type of Christian school your girlfriend went to, but in my area the Catholic alternatives exceed most of the city and suburban public schools in not only science and math, but English too. I go to a Jesuit high school, and the amount of people taking AP classes is astounding. Just because they offer a religious course does not mean they shove ideology down your throat. In fact, they don't even teach creation as fact. When they mention it in the religion class (which is not just about Christan religions) they even state that only fundamentalists usually take the Bible at face value. What I am saying is, that Catholic schools are much more secular than you think, and not some faith-based zombie machine that doesn't teach science because they aren' the"The earth is only 6000 years old!' fundamental types Digg users assume then to be.
Note: I am an agnostic. - Icefreez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Didn't they ask this very same question 20 years ago?
- Aupajo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5My high school was different from any other high school. They had an approach to teaching us kids that was more university-like than school-like. You could choose your classes every six weeks for the next six weeks and choose to take as many or as little as you liked. When you didn't have a class you could be doing an Inquiry, which is like a personal project that you can completely choose. I remember there was a group that made games, a group that made movies, one person wrote a book, someone else started a company...
They recently opened a new building and they held a big discussion so the students could have their say. One of the things that came out of it was they didn't want square rooms, so every floor has a large round room in the centre. It's a school were the learning is really up to the student, and there's so many ways they let you do that.
It's a public school in the heart of Christchurch, New Zealand and it's the most forward-thinking school I've ever heard about and I believe that its learning paradigm is going to be the future, not removing schools altogether. - xobecide, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I hope there won't be classrooms... I was kind of imagining we revert back to Ancient Greece and have classrooms outside whenever possible.
- a_madman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I believe the other half of an education is motivation... the lack thereof in many individuals is what causes problems with current home schooling methods and this predicted "podcast education." Most people need teachers and peers to motivate them via competition.
- xsxs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Man, I hope they still exist in 20 years. Thats exactly how long i have until I can retire!
-School Employee - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Home schooling associations fulfill every social needs and extracurricular activities children have."
While the associations are a great fact overlooked by the nay-sayers, I'm personally frustrated that the associations in my area tend to be Christian, since the Christians tend to reject the lessons in sex education and evolutionary science.
There are tons of other things for kids to be doing. There is always the local YMCA if they're interested in organized sports and Athlete's Foot, even this god-awful backwoods burg has a "children's museum" and a youth soccer league.
My son is much too young, but is already wanting to take karate. We're practicing together some of the basic moves, and his ballet classes are already helping his balance. He saw _The Nutcracker_ with Barishnikov and said, "I want to do that!" So, he is.
People who think that "school" is the only method of interpersonal interaction available are just being lazy, which is what Big Mommy Government wants people to be. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ a_madman,
What problems? I'm very curious, because the home school students that I see and have dealt with are far more motivated than the public schooled.
It doesn't hurt that 3-4 hours a day homeschooled keeps the kids accademically well beyond what their 6-8 hour public schooled "peers" are learning. - mapkinase, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I can foresee also a slogan:
"Having fun in life is a way to success!"
USA has ridiculously stupid, ineffective and failing education system exactly because of ridiculously stupid emphasis of tip-toeing around children in general and delinquents in particular. - Vlatro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The debate of "Public School Vs. Private School" is ridiculous. The debate only exists because at some point, our government decided we should become socialists and began subsidizing education with tax payer money. In any market the performance of the industry (or in this case school system) as a whole suffers when government subsidies and regulation are introduced. The government will cater to the needs of mediocre and poor establishments to ensure it's widespread availability. The schools must comply with policies to keep their funding, and those policies are based on achieving only minimal competence amongst students and maintaining a minimum daily headcount. There is no competition between public schools Their wide spread availability and low cost (well not low, you pay for it regardless through taxes) puts unneeded pressure on those few remaining private schools who are forced to compete in a free market. The end result is naturally higher tuition in the private schools.
One solution I see becoming more common is "Commutative Home schooling". Essentially, several parents will band together and donate 1 day a week to teach all their children. This is more manageable around a work schedule, Parents can review the curriculum together and cover more ground than a single person would be able to. They can draw on each other's expertise while teaching certain subjects. For example: A parent who works as an engineer may teach math and science, then trade off to another parent to teach a subject he is less skilled in. Kids are surrounded by a small group of their peers allowing them to learn basic social skills. The relatively smaller classroom size is more manageable. Kids get into less trouble (after all their parents WILL find out about them misbehaving in this situation). It even lends it's self well to the transportation concerns that typically plague schools, as the instructing parent could pick up all the kids early in the day, or each drop off their own on their way to work. No more school buss schedule. This also makes other activities like visits to a museum or library a simple task, where as a public school would need weeks to get funding approved and written consent from parents. Some states are beginning to recognize and reward this with a tax break. It is also becoming much more acceptable for home schooled children to participate in public school activities like sports, student organizations, dances etc. After all, as a tax payer with a child in their district, you are paying for that school.
There are of course drawbacks to any system. This does require several parents who's jobs are flexible enough to afford 1 guaranteed day off during the week. There is a high level of parental involvement needed to organize and maintain this system. A public or private school can get a substitute teacher on a moment's notice, the home-schooler can not. It is common for the parents to collectively share expenses and that can add up quickly, though still significantly less expensive than most private school tuition. Curriculum studies and text book selection may be daunting to a parent who has not taught before (what you learned in school 20 years ago may differ greatly from the standard teachings today). Personal conflicts between parents or students can have a significant impact on the system as a whole.
Bottom line: Lower cost for a better education. More time consuming for parents.
My girlfriend has 2 children and participates in such a system. I was surprised to discover that 2 of the other parents she worked with were themselves teachers in public schools. Their class schedule permitted them the time to home school and they decided they would not subject their children to that system, having seen it's operation first hand.
Getting back on the topic of the article: Podcast replace schools, that's just stupid. - theguido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3where will we take our flying cars to if when we don't have schools?
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ a_madman,
"if a kid is not self-motivated to get educated it is EXTREMELY difficult for a parent trying to home school to motivate that individual."
Which is why I do not argue or assert that homeschooling is right for everyone. Professional teachers will always have a job, if they're good at it.
The "problem" of non-motivation is one of not finding out what will motivate that individual. With a free-market in education, the "problem" of motivation will be solved because there will be a profit motive in solving it. That profit, like F/OSS, may start out as altruistic, trying to help people. At some point the profit motive will enter the scene, the same way that Sylvan Learning Centers make a profit having found a way of helping kids who are being failed by the cookie-cutter public schools.
"I had many home schooled friends who did not receive an education of the same quality they most likely would have received in a public school environment because they longed for the social aspect... I didn't really care."
One of the most abused traditional learning environments that have been destroyed by the coercive public schools is "apprenticeship". My boy was reading the second McGuffey Reader, and he read a lesson about an honest boy who owned up to breaking a store window. The store owner took the boy in as an apprentice because he had proven his honesty, and a few years later the boy, now a man, was the man's partner in the business.
...having never finished grade school.
These are the kinds of opportunities for study and learning that have been crushed out of existence by the coercive schools, minimum wage laws, and so-called "child labor" laws.
"Oh... and I'm not THAT socially awkward... but I don't run my own business or search for whales either..."
The cookie-cutter aspect of coercive public schools are something I'm railing against. To expect you to behave like "every other home schooled student" is just as absurd as expecting every child to get a good education through the same system of schooling.
I wasn't homeschooled at all. My grade-school education came from reading everything I could get my hands on, while getting straight F's and "Incomplete" because I didn't do any of the homework. But every evaluation test I took I passed with flying colours. I didn't fit their "cookie-cutter" image of a student. I spent more time in the principles office than in class, it seemed, without ever doing anything violent or disruptive. Just for not _doing_ anything.
I got out of highschool on a plea-bargain, where I could apply community college class credits back to my highschool course requirement. That is the _only_ reason I graduated highschool, I would have flunked out, and at the same time I was 4.0-ing the college classes. - zmurd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7True, Rian. Did you learn more about girls or math in highschool?
In my opinion High School taught me more about life, than mathematics or science. It is the interaction between the people sitting around you.
I'd much rather sit around my friends and learn rather than in my room. :) - weister42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Naaa, I think classroom should be around for a long time, real social interaction is vitally important in the development of teenagers. I mean who do you know on any forum that you've actually met in person? I sure as hell don't know who xsxs is but I'm reading his post...
If school seized to exist then there won't be anymore hot girls in schoolgirl outfits, and that's not acceptable in my opinion. - pampusik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I got a grant to go to China in April to bring back examples of portable learning devices that the Chinese are using in the classrooms and beyond --even to "cheat" on tests. American educators are terrified of this stuff, but the Chinese seem to think we're using it already... it should be interesting to see how American teachers react to this when I'll demonstrate it in May...
- gregdigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Only a superior form of arrogance"? How can someone have a high-quality exaggerated sense of their own importance? Wait... were you educated by podcast?
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