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Wilkes University drops PCs, goes all Mac
macnn.com — Apple is continuing to make strides in the education market, despite some recent negative remarks by Apple CEO Steve Jobs regarding teachers' unions. Bolstering reports of Macs rebounding on college campuses, The Chronicle of Higher Education reports that Wilkes University, a higher education institution located in Pennslyvania has announced that i
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- dmg025, on 10/12/2007, -48/+18haha...why would you ever do that?
- Maxtrosity, on 10/12/2007, -37/+53who the ***** cares, why are we ooing and aahing at a hardware change at a no name university? show me some news i actually care about
- macfanboi, on 10/12/2007, -16/+28Hasn't Apple always had the educational market? 1700 computers, what does that bring Apple to, 4.698% now?
- rightofcenter, on 10/12/2007, -13/+37In related news, Ferndell elementary school completed the switch back to Crayola crayons.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Twatty Jones Middle School just changed out all their CRT's for flat screens!
- Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Dupe Comment. Ignore.
- Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Dupe Comment. Ignore.
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1[Dvorak]No one cares...[/Dvorak]
- miniboss, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Attention students, we're switching to Macs. So you better get used to these things because there's a 2% chance you may actually come across one in your future career."
- TheSwagger, on 10/12/2007, -12/+55I'm a Wilkes student. The macs all run XP, and are a little frustrating but infinitely better than the POS Dells they replace. Mostly MacMini's with some Imacs in labs. They aren't bad but I'll take the IBM's in the CS lab anyday.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Why are they better than the POS Dells they replace? Lower defective rate? Faster computing experience? Prettier? Newer?
I really wanna know. - TheSwagger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14The Dells were just a pile of bloatware, they were outdated, and crashed frequently. I remember a number of Blue Screens of Death on them. The Macs are just better hardware. I know the engineering lab is all windows, and some macs are running OSX. I would love to use OSX but unfortunately all the engineering programs we use (Matlab, AutoCADD, Pro-E, etc are primary Windows based and therefore we run XP. And the Macs are kind of pretty.... God i hate steve jobs sometimes...
- Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8>>The Dells were just a pile of bloatware, they were outdated, and crashed frequently.
So brand new hardware with a fresh install of XP (instead of the added bundles that dell gives you) runs better? Will wonders never cease!
Sounds like your admin was too lazy to make a clean image and get rid of the Dell crap. - justnick, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Macs and PCs all have the same hardware. You can get an identical (hardware wise) PC from Dell. This is a poor decision by the IT department. If they wanted to run OSX then I would understand but to install XP on them just means they paid for a prettier case.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@TheSwagger, bloatware? That makes absolutely no sense. Your school buys consumer PCs? Dell has a line of PCs made for business, education, healthcare, etc. They have no bloatware, I know as that is what my company buys. No AOL, no Napster, nada. If your school was buying the cheapest Dell consumer boxen without considering their volume discount available to educational institutions, then the "fault" definitely falls on the school. Besides, who deploys PCs without putting a new fresh, customized install on first? That is the status quo in the corporate world, unless you are buying in volume where the vendor will be happy to place your own customized image on each and every PC.
Oddly enough my company is over 90% linux, but we have a LOT of windows boxes still. The BSOD is almost always a hardware issue, that comes from personal experience not a preconceived prejudice.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Why are they better than the POS Dells they replace? Lower defective rate? Faster computing experience? Prettier? Newer?
- tw0k1ngs, on 10/12/2007, -21/+31I'm a Wilkes student. The macs all run OS 10.4.8 and I absolutly love it compared to the older windows-based dells.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31Will the REAL Wilkes student please stand up.
- MasterQ, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14I'm also a Wilkes student... the macs are mostly mac minis and they boot to XP by default... I think they just wanted a way to have the best of both worlds on a single (and mini) computer.
Also.... something in Wilkes-Barre, PA made digg? w00t! - leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The picture in this article says it all:
http://www.wilkes.edu/pages/194.asp?item=12228
Those Macs are running Windows! - robdazomba, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3> Those Macs are running Windows!
RTFA! They said they're switching gradually over the next 3 years and replacing their Windows infrastructure. Of course, the current machines will have to run Windows to some extent, but the long-term goal is the removal of Windows.
Smart people running that University. Get out of the MS trap while you can. - leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3They'll be getting out of the "MS trap" alright... and jumping right into an Apple one. Three or four years from now, they'll end up having to throw out all of those Mac Mini's when Mac OS 10.4 isn't supported anymore and the hardware in those little boxes can't be upgraded to support 10.5 (or 10.6 or 11... whatever they're up to then) properly.
It's also practically impossible to have a college that only uses Mac OS X, since students NEED to learn Windows skills in order to compete in the marketplace. Corporations don't use iLife applications... They use Outlook and Office. - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"since students NEED to learn Windows skills in order to compete in the marketplace"
Can we PLEASE put this lame argument to rest already? I grew up on Apple stuff. I used Apple stuff through college. I have used (not by choice) Windows in the workplace for 10+ years. I know Windows better than 95% of my Windows-at-home coworkers. My lack of Windows experience in college did NOT hurt my career ONE BIT.
You don't need "Windows skills," you need computer skills. If you're proficient at OS X, you can pick up Windows in no time. And vice-versa. It's a sad joke to suggest that the future of our children (and our children's children) depends on their mastery of Windows Explorer, the holy Start menu, or Word macros. Microsoft may want you to believe this (and their education sales reps probably throw out this FUD at all their potential customers), but it simply ISN'T TRUE.
- ABadInAlbany, on 10/12/2007, -35/+75And in other news, Wilkes' graduating classes suddenly trend towards graphic artists and lesbians. Back to you, Bob.
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -28/+59Thank you for that insightful commentary.
Tonight, breezy high of 45 and windy: Tomorrow night a low of 36. Should be nice drive in tomorrow morning.
Coming up right now, how morons make stupid stereotypical comments based on what products you use. And later we'll see what your poptart flavor says about you. Here's a hint, stay away from blueberry - thats in the graphic designer lesbian top 10. - ABadInAlbany, on 10/12/2007, -21/+20Offended Mac fanboi alert, in effect through midnight tonight. Back to you, Bob!
(Relax, breathe. It's called a "joke." Perhaps they don't have those in this land of blueberry Poptarts from whence you came?) - Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10I digged both of you up because both comments were actually funny. One was expected but well written, the other was great in that it didn't miss a beat. All in good fun, I love OSX but won't play favorites :P
- SwellGuy007, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Way to go. Now you've gone and pissed Bob off.
Now, about these lesbians ... go on ... - robdazomba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah, but they're really hot lesbians.
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -28/+59Thank you for that insightful commentary.
- growlzor, on 10/12/2007, -25/+19Well obviously if you replace your old computers with new ones people are going to like the macs but placing a brand new mac next to a brand new PC I'd take the PC any day
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3unless the pc was absurdly tiny, so tiny that it got stuck inside the mac's fan. and the mac, which is pretty small itself was also really tiny, so the impossibly tiny mac, and even impossibly smaller tinier pc delimma would really have you wondering where the pc was. and you'd say, where is the pc? and you'd really be looking at nothing, since its so impossibly tiny. and then people might pick either pc or mac, but since the really miniscule pc was inside the impossibly tiny mac pcs fan, you'd never really know what the hell was going on.
You'd have to look at the mouse to determine what computer it is. Mice don't seem to get any smaller with computer technology. Good thing too. - slipknotrobb, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8Yes, Bob, you are a very mysterious one.
And also a overzealous idiotic Mac fanboy. (See above comment) - dagaz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4@growizor
Have you ever spent any serious amount of time using a late model Mac running OSX? Because most people who have spent time on both platforms wouldn't make the comment you just made (myself included who uses both on a daily basis). Before making ignorant macophobic statements, actually go and see what you're missing out on first. - clyde2801, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Here's a quarter, kid. Go get yourself a real operating system.
- isellmacs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@growlzor
" Well obviously if you replace your old computers with new ones people are going to like the macs but placing a brand new mac next to a brand new PC I'd take the PC any day "
I found this the most amusing part about switchers. As you can tell from my username, I used to be a mac sales guy. The scenario almost always went like this:
The customer was tired and fed up with their PC, almost always a Dell. The Dell would be running a zillion programs, have a ton of spyware and virii downloaded by said customers teenage son. The hardware was almost new, barely a month or two over 5 years. They had bought all the windows upgrades as soon as they came out, upgrading one after another from windows 95 or so.
They then purchased a brand new Mac, without 5 years of garbage built up and were quite happy with its performance. The sad part was that had they actually bought a PC that wasn't frontloaded with startup garbage, they would have been just as happy with it.
It's not the switching of platforms that REALLY makes your average person happy, it's the switching of COMPUTERS that really does it. Ditching the computer they and (mostly) their son ran into the ground of the period of 5 years of learning and getting a brand new machine really works wonders, regardless of platform. - justnick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Clyde -- He doesn't need a quarter, Linux is free.
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3unless the pc was absurdly tiny, so tiny that it got stuck inside the mac's fan. and the mac, which is pretty small itself was also really tiny, so the impossibly tiny mac, and even impossibly smaller tinier pc delimma would really have you wondering where the pc was. and you'd say, where is the pc? and you'd really be looking at nothing, since its so impossibly tiny. and then people might pick either pc or mac, but since the really miniscule pc was inside the impossibly tiny mac pcs fan, you'd never really know what the hell was going on.
- antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15" ...has announced that i" That i what??? WHAT????
- Hercules, on 10/12/2007, -13/+7And Wilkes graduates will graduate even more pompous than they went in. Woo hoo?
- r81984, on 10/12/2007, -21/+10That sucks. I hope they do not have to pay much to go to a ***** school like that.
Purdue has mac labs and they are useless.
Why use a mac when you can use a PC?- martin308, on 10/30/2007, -19/+14Why use a PC when you can use a Mac?
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14ABACUS FTW!!!
- wageslave1, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13uhm, maybe "Wilkes University drops PCs, goes all Mac IN PLACES WHERE THEY DONT HAVE Windows, Unix & Linux"
I'd bet my life they havent got Macs in the server room. Dugg down as inaccurate. - ElGuano, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3Why would negative comments regarding teaching unions matter at all? Teachers aren't tenured profs, and faculty doesn't decide a school's IT infrastructure.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10I have nothing positive to say about the teacher unions either.
- st23am, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Who ?
- dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -26/+29Wow. What a way to prepare your students. Given them technology that 90% of the world and 95% of businesses don't use. Glad they will be prepared once they graduate.
- chicagodj, on 10/12/2007, -12/+9exactly what I was thinking...
- chris4404, on 10/12/2007, -12/+9I guess you missed the memo fruit is taking over the IT market, anytime now.....give it a minute.
/sarcasm - gb506, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5@dgaspard
Yo, Dumb Ass, if you'd taken 5 seconds to read the post above from the Wilkes student you'd know that they're all Bootcamped and running XP in addion to MacOS X - FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7Yes, Driver's Ed should be taught with Fords because 90% of the world drives Fords.
Unless you are using specific software only available on a specific platform and that is what your career is to be built around, it won't matter after you leave what type of computer you used in school - ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3"Yo, Dumb Ass, if you'd taken 5 seconds to read the post above from the Wilkes student you'd know that they're all Bootcamped and running XP in addion to MacOS X"
Oh, you say they're all hacked and tweaked to run an OS that wasn't designed for that hardware? Well nevermind, then! - jpjandrade, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3@ayeroxor
Please, if you don't know how Macs, the Boot Camp, and OS X works, refrain from posting. - BEDrocko, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@ayeroxor
...and what specific hardware was Windows OS designed for? - Holocaust, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5But hey! At least they don't have viruses!
Now they can chat with myspace pedophiles with out any spyware in the way...
Haaazaaah! - MonkeyFarts, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3dgaspard:
Yeah, because the learning of _so many_ majors is completely dependent on what type of computer your school uses. Oh my God! I'm never going to get a degree in economics; my computer lab uses LINUX computers! Oh, the humanity.
The only thing you really have to worry about is not being able to use a company's software, which may be Windows only. But even then, if the company uses unique or specific software, they'll probably train you how to use it. Who cares what kind of computers this university uses? It makes no freakin' difference. - dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I was tech support for a few years while in college and in high school. People, in general, are not adaptive. We're not talking ford vs. gm cars. We're talking standard vs. automatic. Some people will just not get it. This university will see some freshman will fail there first English paper because they won't be able to figure out office on a Mac in time. People won't understand why there PC formatted disk doesn't work on school computers right before a presentation. As for the bootcamp or dual boot issue. Why don't they buy cheaper PC's if all anyone is going to do is run Microsoft software. This is a retarded move. I'm guessing someone at this school is sleeping with a MAC salesman.
- isellmacs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just a minor note:
OSX can read windows formated floppy disks.
Sadly, I actually failed a course in college because I had a mac-formated disk to store my project (which was 100% of the course grade) and the mac lab was taken down for repairs 2 weeks before the end of the semester. It did badly need it, as every machine crashed at least once an hour, if not more. Still, a little notice would have been nice, since I didn't own nor have access to a mac to finish my project. - saifrc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Stanford used to be a Mac-standard university, and still is primarily geared towards Macs. The irony is that, while most of the very technical people I knew there used Macs as their personal computers, it was the non-technical people who clamored for Windows support.
The more technically inclined people preferred Macs. The people with inflexible minds who couldn't grasp anything outside of the software that they learned to use by rote, preferred Windows. Of course, it's always best to be familiar with lots of different platforms -- at CCRMA we used Linux (and even some ancient NeXTSTEP machines), and Sweet Hall had SPARC workstations. But the types of people who only knew Windows would never go near those places.
- scrag10, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8Schools should use Linux to minimize tuition fees.
- ProvidenceCrow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I went to a school that had a fair amount of linux/Unix labs, and let me tell you, they wont use that as an excuse to lower tuition fees at all. In fact in the 5 years i was there, they raised tuition 3 times, without actually changing anything on campus. They just followed the old business practice of "Well, people are going to pay either way, lets just drain more money out of them."
- ABadInAlbany, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Software licensing is a drop in the bucket. Sure, some savings could be realized, but not enough that they'd ever apply them towards your tuition, unfortunately.
- ricsad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Then the students will be pissed because they can't run Windows games off their USB drive.
- Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Which do you want them to lower? Tuition OR Fees? They aren't the same thing.
Additionally, they may have a much harder time finding students to support student labs if they're running linux -- which could drive up the wages they have to pay.... - leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Nice thinking, but switching to Linux probably wouldn't save colleges a lot of money. Microsoft gives colleges huge discounts in order to get their students "hooked" on their software.
- bultaco370, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13Virginia Tech's general education math program is entirely on mac's. They have about a million of them, all in an old department store... The only thing I hate more than teaching myself business calculus is taking exams on a computer with one mouse button and prone to random restarts.
- knuvue, on 12/05/2007, -12/+7So you work on POS macs with a POS single button mouse....that sounds like a personal problem to me...last time I checked, there are Macs that can run windows, game (with high performance) and they can use a 2 button mouse, hell they'll work with a 7 button mouse.
Don't knock macs because the ones you use are pieces of ***** with ***** mouses attached to them. There are ***** PCs too, you know. - B1663r, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Really? Which Mac support crossfire? None?!?!? So mac really doesnt support high end graphics then does it?
- knuvue, on 12/05/2007, -12/+7So you work on POS macs with a POS single button mouse....that sounds like a personal problem to me...last time I checked, there are Macs that can run windows, game (with high performance) and they can use a 2 button mouse, hell they'll work with a 7 button mouse.
- antifreeze11, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6this is what their tuition is going towards? ***** overpriced Macs.
- funkspiel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5I think Dwight Schrute attended Wilkes.
- Slungsolow, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6I've always pictured Dwight as graduate of Luzerne County Community College.
- umbriago, on 10/12/2007, -13/+8Yeah, this will really make them useful for the real world. Resumes that don't have some useful computer experience listed generally go in the rubbish. What's Apple's market share - five percent? Couldn't the school get any TRS-80s?
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3All those lesbian graphic designers will find lots of work with their mac experience. Trust me, I work with the advertising field, and there are macs a plenty. I haven't really noticed the lesbians, well except for mary, and kim.. oh yea, I guess they are all gay.
- ricsad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I'm not sure if more graphic design companies use macs or pcs. But here in Vancouver, most of the popular design companies use PCs. This includes Graphically Speaking and Circle .
There's really no reason to pick Mac just because you're using Adobe products. They work just as well on the PC. - isellmacs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It wasn't that long ago that Mac's beat out PC's hands-down for graphic design. Motorola and their stagnating CPU advancement cost Apple their lead in that market.
Mac's aren't top dog in that world anymore, but they are still very solid machines for graphic design, and work just fine. PC's are ALSO very solid machines and work just fine.
- Alexf22, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6YES YES BUY THOSE ***** MACS!!!!
OH YEAH BABY AND IF YOU BUY MORE ILL THROW IN FREE ISIGHTS BECAUSE IM THE COOLEST MOFO IN TOWN
-steve jobs - Vermifax, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4I love the sound of ignorant trollers in the morning. Sounds like.............victory.
- 1KrazyKorean, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Hmm I guess wikes has more of a budget, so they can get some high priced macs
- edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8not if they bought mac minis
That's sort of like buying a neon and claming you've got a Benz. - ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1What if it's one of the new shnazzy Racing Neons? :P
- edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8not if they bought mac minis
- rhapsodic, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Note to self: Round-file the resumes from Wilkes University grads.
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3round file with fancy alpha channel icons!
OS X or Vista - which am I talking about. you don't know if you should digg or bury..
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3round file with fancy alpha channel icons!
- headband, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9good thing I don't go there
- JohnnyHuh, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4You know who else switched from crappy Dells to Macs?
Hitler, that's who! But so did Mother Teresa so it all evens out. - combustion8, on 10/12/2007, -12/+12hope there's no computer science majors there.
- gb506, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6@combustion8
You're a retard. You can run any OS you want on those macs - including MacOS X, which you cannot do on your Dell. It's a BETTER solution all around. - Decimal, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8Why not? The Mac is a perfect platform for CS majors... It can run mainstream apps, and it's still UNIX, which is the typical environment for CS course work.
- FearlessFreep, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14"Computer Science" is not about using Visual Studio or programming Visual Basic; it's about algorithm design and database design and all sorts of stuff you can learn using C or Python on any platform....
- ProvidenceCrow, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3@gb
So what if you can run any OS you want on them, if you have ever taken a CS course in a college youll notice that every CS department suffers from "Stubborn old man Syndrome".
The vast majority of CS professors out there are afraid of change in any form when it comes to computers. The though of even dual booting any OS is not a concept they want to be bothered with. A lot of them started doing CS when PCs first started gaining momentum in the 80s, and really don't care about graphical interfaces of any kind, and are very uncomfortable with the overall diminishing usage of the command prompt.
Here is a great example:
My CS205 professor, very nice woman but very stubborn, still to this day uses Links as her preferred web "browser" (hates using mice all together). One time she wanted to show us something on the web, opens up internet explorer, types in the address, and forgets to hit enter or click "Go". Then goes on a 30 minute rant about how worthless windows and all GUIs are, until finally someone goes "uhh...hit enter?". Her only response once she did this was "I dont understand why everything becomes overly complicated using a GUI in an OS, you would think they would make it easier, but nothing is simpler than plain text to this date".
Basically my point is, if you had multiple OS's on one machine, most CS profs would not know what to do with themselves, and just have you program in whatever is running at the time. If OSX is up, and there are no developer tools readily available at first glance, the professor would have you move computers before having you reboot into a different OS. Granted most CS students are not that computer illiterate, and would realise to reboot themselves, but there is a handful that know less about computers than people in other non-computer related fields. - groverblue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No CS student is going to be using a university workstation (unless your doing Sparc assembly).
- BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I'm a web dev, and I check logs, and I know that the sites I made work as well as they can in lynx. At the end of the day, its those crazy bastards using lynx that you need to make happy. Why? So when you're giving her your 'O' face you can also tell her how you made a site that works in lynx. And then you can explain to her what lynx is.
- terryiii, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I am a computer Science major, and all I use is my mac.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Well then I'd venture to say that nothing about you qualifies as "major"...
- ProvidenceCrow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@grover
Not exactly. At my university, you need to demo 100% of your work on the school's workstations, and thusly it is easier in general to either work in the lab there on it, or ssh tunnel into a machine, because above all else it needs to work in the labs, and while most of the workstations it does not matter, there is one lab in particular i can think of that runs Solaris 5.2 still, and every once in a while you get stuck in there, and have to demo there, and if it doesn't work then you get a large lecture on backwards compatibility, and it doesn't matter if it is running fine on my own gentoo install, or in the red hat lab downstairs, anything you code needs to work on every machine ever made, bceause thats "True CS" - liverj00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@terryiii
Being a computer science major says nothing about what you can or cant do... I recently interviewed a whole bunch of "computer science majors" who couldnt write a function to check if a string was a palindrome, in whatever language they wanted. - ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3ProvidenceCow: "and thusly it is easier in general to either[...]"
thusly? Next, you're gonna tell me that I'll "rue the day"...
/who talks like that?
- gb506, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6@combustion8
- drinkmorejava, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Personally, I like the idea of running all of my software on one operating system. I've run Red Hat, Ubuntu, XP, and Tiger, and always find myself going back to what makes things more accessible (XP). Sure Linux is cool, but for anything beyond office and the internet, it's very lacking, and I find OSX nicer than XP, and it has a substantially larger application base than Linux, but the majority of a programs a person wants are still for XP.
Granted OSX isn't hard for users to learn, but to fully support both XP and OSX is still an absolute pain. Furthermore, all kids going through the school are going to get addicted to the things, which is exactly what you do want to be promoting when the vast majority of real world businesses use windows platforms.
Of course, they say everything is rectified by just dual booting, which I'm not even going to try and explain why it's a waste of time. Running virtual machines is nice, but it's still pointless if everything you use is easily done on one operating system. VMs have their place in the server and other niche markets, but running two operating system's at once without seamless interoperability for general use is the wrong answer. - diggernaught, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Nothing like a closed hardware model exploiting opensource's benifits. It is good for OSX but don't be poser just build a box with Umbutu, Suse, RedHat, Fedora or Knopixx. This is a disservice to students because PC based laptops can be had for around $500 vs about $1000 for Macs, students are usually limited budget to begin with and cannot afford the designer expense of a Mac should they want a simliar system that is on campus.
- radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2The school is switching. Students can make their own choice about a "$500" PC vs $1000 mac. What I think makes sense here is that the school IT department will no longer be burdened with the higher TCO of maintaining Windows machines free from viruses.
- ricsad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Actually PCs are cheaper to maintain. I know everyone says Windows always gets viruses and you need to clean those viruses every week or so. But that's really just a myth. PCs are very safe from viruses these days and as long as you have anti-virus, you probably will never get a virus. You might get spyware from installing stuff, but that's more of user mistakes (ie. installing ActiveX controls on websites).
Also, many schools choose to use PC because there are more software for it. You'll notice that on those school's computer, if you install a program and restart the computer, the program disappears. This is because the computer resets itself to it's original state so that nobody can install viruses or other harmful things on the computer. Great feature all the Art Institutes have on their PCs but they don't have it on their Macs.
- ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7I gagged when I read they were integrating iPods into their education programs.
- Slungsolow, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I'm sure they're refering to the availability of lectures via podcasts. Lots of schools do that now.
- ricsad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's probably recorded classes or materials. But many schools just provide MP3 files instead so you can use it with any mp3 player.
Example:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/
- Hercules, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5There's a saying that a professor friend of mine told me, not sure how it applies to this but it was entertaining...
90% of the idiots in college pay for the 10% who are smart.
Maybe it's the 90% who are just paying for Macs because they are stupid, or the 10% because they are smart? :)- TheSwagger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Its more like 98% idiot here at Wilkes. The dumbest by far being the people running the place. They waste more cash on dumber things than a compton resident does on rims for his Impala. Why not just buy us all Lenovo Thinkpads and really make us happy.
- madk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Poor school.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I don't know if the submitter realizes this, but teachers unions have nothing to do with universities - not even public universities. That's why the generally actually educate students, unlike public gradeschools and highschools.
It's something to do with people actually being able to choose where to spend money with universities, a facet of gradeschool and highschool education that is lacking to the poorest that need choice the most... - polyGone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Nice, I live right down the street. No that that adds to the discussion....
- Cowboy5995, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"You're a retard. You can run any OS you want on those macs - including MacOS X, which you cannot do on your Dell. It's a BETTER solution all around."
May be my dell 386 cant...........but my Gateway comptuer does! - ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This'll be great. That way they can get all sorts of Mac experience for when the go into the Mac-dominated world business...
- cosmo7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I think you're confusing your DeVry course, where you were trained how to operate a computer, with a real education, where students learn how to accomplish creative tasks.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Creative=Fruity FTW. I bet you have a lisp...
- waterdrop, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I'm not going to that school.
- groverblue, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Do you mean: "I'm not going to that school, now." or "I'm not going to that school, currently."
If the former, have you even used a Mac?
- groverblue, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Do you mean: "I'm not going to that school, now." or "I'm not going to that school, currently."
- Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Slow news day!
- hilbertspaceboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Wilkes... is that a community college?
Maybe it's one of those mail-order diploma mills.- TheSwagger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Most of Wilkes sucks balls, but we have ABET accredited engineering, a full pharmacy school, and a decent nursing program. No Community College here. Thats up the street.
- Uberdork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The education market is the least lucrative, and, despite Apple's long history of trying to brainwash children, does not dictate what happens in the corporate world. The enterprise is the most lucrative and dictates the state of computer technology. Set your sights there, Apple if you would succeed.
- NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Better you know now than after you pay your tuition. It would be like finding out the GF has herpes on your honeymoon.
- aspirinetu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2that's what pre marital sex prevents
- edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Will you fellas leave Wilkes College alone damn. It's bad enough they gotta use mac mini's without y'all pickin on em.
Could someone from R.I. FeEx me some wiennies. - ricsad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Thanks for letting us know they switched to Macs. I feel like I'm learning something useful everyday!
- broomett, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah...making strides. Riiiight.
For every university that does this, one switches to PCs. But, since Macs are INSIGNIFICANT in the market, no one tales about it. - DonCarcharo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I directed a Photoshooot at Wilkes University about ten years ago. Most of the shoot was "college life" but we had a few specific shots on the list, one of which was titled "computer lab". The most obvious place to go was the CS lab so we started out there. It was filled with wires, beige CRTs and of course CS majors. Let's just say that it wasn't all that visually appealing. So we scrubbed the location, tracked down a few wandering hot college chicks and headed over to the new Mac lab which was filled with brand new shiny bondi blue iMacs (making this pretty much a porn shoot for a Mac guy).
Anyway the shot turned out okay but we did hit one snag. We later learned that the photo was supposed to be for the CS department and ended up being shown as such on the brochure. Apparently sending prospective CS majors photos of shiny iMacs isn't the most effective marketing. Who knew? :) - wishnias, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I went to Wilkes, class of '05 (mech. engineering), and they already had macs in all the writing labs. The engineering labs all had PC's, but if they just run bootcamp with XP then this doesn't seem like that big a deal. Core2 iMacs for these labs would be great, if only for the fact that it would open up a ton of desk space (they had CRT monitors). Yeah, they could have just gotten new monitors for all of them, but they were aging Dells that would have requried some surgery to keep going.
Does anyone have a legitamite reason as to why the university shouldn't have comitted to the switch (considering the fact that most will be running bootcamp)?- edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Because Mac's imply elitism, snobbishness, and in general buggery of the worst sort, not to mention the compulsion to own Segways. In essence they destroy the very fiber that the founding fathers so painstakingly labour'd to create. Mac's are truly the work of the Prince of Darkness and his minions.
- clyde2801, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yes, and PC's are the work of self righteous computer puritan types who want to punish themselves and not enjoy the OS they use.
- theuber1337, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Or maybe they're just different operating systems and some people prefer one over the other.
There is no right or wrong people! Get over it! - dyshuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Does anyone have a legitamite reason as to why the university shouldn't have comitted to the switch (considering the fact that most will be running bootcamp)?"
I also went to Wilkes, EE of '05. It's pointless for Wilkes to switch if they're just going to be running bootcamp / XP. Keep the ~10 macs that already run OS X that they have so the 1.9% of students that even care that they have macs can use them and let the rest of the ignorants use the Dell/XP/useless computers. Wilkes is just wasting they're money to put an inferior OS on superior hardware.
- clyde2801, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3iMac, biaytch!!!
- leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wilkes's IT department must be on crack! Not only would having Dell's or generic PC's in the labs that require Windows be cheaper, but their larger size make them a much less attractive target to thieves. All I need is a compact bolt cutter that I can stick in my pocket, and I quickly cut the cables on those Kensington locks and quickly stash a few of those Mini's in a bookbag.
- Chrelion, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4One of the common arguments I've found here is that this is going to be a letdown for the "real world". The only problem with that argument is that people get plenty of experience with Windows as is. And it's not like GUI concepts aren't easily transitioned from one OS to another. I can immediately sit down in front of a Linux distro running KDE, Gnome, Afterstep, Enlightenment - et al. with no previous experience on those systems and get up to speed pretty quickly. Why would it be so hard for a college graduate to, if they so desired, transition their Mac GUI experience over to Windows? After all, Windows is only imitating the Mac.
Next, after the length of one's education, do you REALLY think that the computing market in the real world is going to match exactly the one inside a laboratory? Hardly. Not to mention with Apple being as innovative as it is, using a Mac kind of gives a preview for where Windows will be. No, seriously. I think it's a great way of staying ahead of the game.
Next. Oooh, boo hoo. CS students shouldn't use Macs? What the ***** is that *****? Macs have one of the best development environments out there. And there's a fully functional open source UNIX core sitting underneath it all. How is Windows, in any way, superior to OS X for that purpose? I'd really like to know. VB? A joke. I've seen what comes out of VB development houses - it's absolute ***** and rarely works right in terms of Windows UI conventions. Command line development? Again, full Unix core. Windows cannot, absolutely cannot, touch Unix in terms of development tools. You'd have to be pretty myopic to argue otherwise - though I'd be very interested to hear.
Stereotypes. Mac users are gay, they only do graphic design - etc. . . . My only response is that I'm saddened by this. Of course, stereotypes are the tools of the ignorant. A parallel example would be a Christian Minister claiming, "All non-Christians worship Satan - therefore don't associate with them, they're impure." And then the congregation (out of fear and being manipulated) unquestioningly heeds this advice. History has proven time and again that stereotypes and classifying people by some arbitrary characteristic are the tools of the ignorant. (You can Google yourself for research into the average IQs of racists vs. non-racists. It's not quite the same, but it does illustrate the point.)
Next, vertical applications - CAD, et al. This one, I'll grant to Windows. But not by virtue of Windows' superiority - but by developer laziness. And there's BootCamp if it's needed. But when you combine OS X's X11 implementation with a virtualization market that's getting closer and closer to getting 3D support in Wine for OS X - (and I do absolutely we'll see it) you're going to have an OS, that (all said) will be one of the most universally compatible systems out there.
I've always found it ironic and perhaps a bit saddening when people refer to Apple's operating system as closed. As opposed to Linux? Sure, I'll buy that argument. But people aren't arguing that it's closed as opposed to Linux. The argument is that Mac OS X is closed as opposed to Windows - or more proprietary or more locked.
But let's do a comparison here.
KERNEL
OS X: Darwin - Open source kernel.
Windows: Open source only when the source code is leaked, but not by choice.
GRAPHICS
OS X (and everything that falls in the not-Windows category): OpenGL
Windows: (Microsoft hopes to destroy) OpenGL and DirectX.
This one I need to go on more. Windows owns the gaming market not by superiority of technology, but by the effect of a vicious cycle. Microsoft owns the market, therefore developers make games for Windows. This drives the desirability for Windows gaming, et al. The only problem is that Windows (and DirectX in particular) are technologies designed to lock you into one platform. Why does no one ever comment on that? And for that matter, why develop in DirectX anyway - when OpenGL is deployable on more platforms and therefore you're going to be able to sell to more people and raise the bottom line? Anyway enough of that.
AUDIO:
Mac: AAC (Fairplay.)
Windows: WMA (MSDRM).
Both proprietary encryption schemas, but AAC is a well-documented standard and without the DRM, anyone can implement it. WMA - once again, Microsoft wants to close an iron fist over everything. As far as I can tell, it's not adopted by any standards bodies - but correct me if I am wrong.
PRODUCTIVITY:
Mac: Keynote, Pages, et al.
Okay, these are closed - but the file formats are structured XML that anything can modify.
Windows: Office. Microsoft really, really, really hates when anything aims for compatibility with Office. That's why they're constantly updating/breaking the format so that a) older versions can't read newer documents and b) open source and competitor software suffers the fate of a.
I could go on, but the point is that Microsoft only dominates in markets because they ruthlessly do whatever they can to prevent competition. People cheer for a company that actively destroys choice and then announces that choice is good (e.g. "We prefer to over customers a choice with PlaysForSure.") The only problem is, when Microsoft says choice - what they really mean is "Microsoft only. ***** choice."
So, maybe it's a flaw in my perception - but I absolutely don't get why people cheer a company that only survives by limiting choice, closing platforms, stealing from others, buying out what they can't build themselves and, in general, they really add nothing to the market. It's true. 90% of the market, and Microsoft really hasn't pushed things forward much. - edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Actually schools should do away with computer labs, and invest in wifi and make everyone own their own computer. College labs are a pandemic waiting to happen.
- justic6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The PC/Mac/Linux battle is SO interesting!
- 35263526, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Seriously, why would they possibly do that? Macs are nice and all, but they're all mid to high range and for anything you really need access to in a college or university lab a < $500 Dell running linux would be fine.
- aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Have you checked out the minimum specs for the business edition of vista? You are not going to be able to run Vista Business edition (which supports domains) on a < $500 dell.
- B1663r, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Is that the actual specifications for Vista or the FUD version of the specifications? I am running Vista quite nicely on a $500 Compaq Presario I purchased last August. Aero and everything, right on the integrated graphics card.
You do realize that Vista runs faster than OS X on a mac right? - aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Which version of Vista are you running? Does your machines support Aero? I'm not talking out of my ass. I've been running Vista Ultimate on my 1.83Ghz MBP with a gig of ram beside Tiger since the RTM became available on MSDN via Bootcamp.
In my experience, OS X feels faster and more responsive on the same hardware hardware. Most macs (G4,G5, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo) will run Tiger with all features enabled. The same cannot be said for even year old PCs and Vista Business, Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate.
Based on my experience, I'm going to go back to an XP partition beside my Tiger install.
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