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167 Comments
- inactive, on 08/13/2008, -1/+124This is not from the article linked, but Steve Jobs has explained his view on concept products, sort of, in another article:
Ask Apple CEO Steve Jobs about it, and he'll tell you an instructive little story. Call it the Parable of the Concept Car. "Here's what you find at a lot of companies," he says, kicking back in a conference room at Apple's gleaming white Silicon Valley headquarters, which looks something like a cross between an Ivy League university and an iPod. "You know how you see a show car, and it's really cool, and then four years later you see the production car, and it sucks? And you go, What happened? They had it! They had it in the palm of their hands! They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory!
"What happened was, the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible.' And so it gets a lot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people, and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1 ... - iie.wakarimasen, on 08/13/2008, -7/+73we're buying their concept products, and the second generation is when they got the product down for sure.
- st0ney, on 08/13/2008, -7/+41The main difference comes down to the company's philosophy. For whatever reason Apple has chosen to make their "concept" products unknown to the public. Don't be fooled to think that Apple doesn't have an R&D department, Steve seems to only put out products that he feels has market viability. Usually he has been right but there are some misses (see hifi).
- inactive, on 08/13/2008, -2/+26Probably because they don't design by committee. They have a very small engineering and ID team. They get ***** done, period. Unlike where I work where everyone insists on sticking their ***** coated finger into every aspect of a project even if they aren't a stakeholder or approver.
- ChayD, on 08/13/2008, -4/+19Inaccurate - Apple just don't reveal their concept products for fear that someone might try to rip them off. Also for the "Hey, we got it right first time" factor.
- tonicboy, on 08/13/2008, -1/+15There's a difference between prototype products which are tools used in a DEVELOPMENT process, and concept products which are fictions of a MARKETING process. The first helps a company hone real products and the latter is usually because some idiot marketing exec has too much time on his hands and extra money in his budget.
- browe07, on 08/13/2008, -2/+16Who needs concept products when you've got so many fanboys.
- phibit, on 08/13/2008, -0/+12Ballmer doesn't run.
- supermose, on 08/13/2008, -2/+13That quote makes a lot of sense. I remember seeing the Aztek Prototype in Car magazines and thinking it looked pretty ok - Problem was, there was a bunch of stuff in the prototype that I guess couldn't be done.
I work in web design and the same thing happens to me. A designer will come up with a cool design and when they show it too me it takes all sorts of javascript trickery to make it work. Sometimes it isn't possible and they have to settle for something less then what they want. - inactive, on 08/13/2008, -2/+12I'm glad MobileMe wasn't just a concept. Imagine what we would have missed out on if it didn't just ship.
- TheUnlearn, on 08/13/2008, -0/+10No Chirp, he's saying Apple doesn't follow that model. He's saying that they design products can be actually be built and produced.
- kelly, on 08/13/2008, -0/+9Your comment can be summarized as such:
"I've never used Apple products and I know they're not good" - inactive, on 08/13/2008, -6/+15Pretentious indeed - it made me check to see if there's a "bury as pretentious drivel" option
- ModernDayDarwin, on 08/13/2008, -0/+9I think Steve's actually saying more, he's saying: "If it can't be built, then we find a way to build it."
I too, am a designer. I usually have 3 designs. The ideal, the possible-if-i-can-convince-them-to-spend-the-time-and-money, and the "fine, I'll settle for this." It never fails that my favorite projects, the ones that actually take the time to achieve the ideal, are the ones on my portfolio. There are some I would never even admit to having a hand in designing. Anyone would look at them and say "whoever did this should never touch a graphics suite again." - BrendanSheehan, on 08/13/2008, -2/+9Steve Jobs says real artists ship, but I think real capitalists do.
- SugarCoatedSalt, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7"and much of their work goes unappreciated."
until they die. - mkrete, on 08/13/2008, -3/+9I'm certain that Apple had many concepts that didn't make it in to the general public. There's no way to develop the iPhone unless you have prototypes of one kind or another. It's a fact of hardware/software development. You build something, you evaluate the +'s and -'s, and then you redevelop until you have something that you think is ready to release to a larger audience.
To say that they never developed any concepts is ridiculous. - stix213, on 08/13/2008, -1/+7The two biggest reasons I see that Apple doesn't show off concept products are:
1) They like to surprise the avid Apple fans with a new product after it is completed. This likely increases sales as Apple fans drool over the new product at the Apple store just a few days or weeks after knowledge of it was released publicly.
This helps for two reasons, the first being that if Apple announced their coming products years in advance their fans will become tired of the new product before it hits the shelves - costing sales. With the second reason being that Apple's competitors are less of a threat because they are forced to play catchup to a product already in Apple's stores, when their own product will still take a few years to develop to compete against Apple.
2) Apple's products while always revolutionary in UI and cosmetic design, are rarely based on revolutionary new concepts. They typically are improvements on existing products by competitors.
Examples:
The iPod was not the first portable mp3 player, and was actually released a half decade after the first mp3 player. No revolutionary concept, so no concept product needed
The iPhone is not much more than a very nice PDA with phone and camera capabilities. While some say the Apple Newton is the forerunner of the iPhone, Apple abandoned the PDA market for years and allowed it to mature without Apple's input for some time including adding all the features the iPhone is known for before the iPhone was even conceived. The Compaq/HP iPaq PDA for example has had cellular & wifi cards available for some time, and has been able to emulate the basic functionality of the iPhone (while not looking as cool) years before the iPhone was released - most features being about a decade old, including cellular based data transfer, cellular phone capabilities, wifi, media player, and web browsing. No revolutionary concept, so no concept product needed - I've been doing this stuff personally with my iPaq since 1999 just with an ugly card sticking out the top.
The Macintosh and Apple II lines of computers, while given much credit for usability and software design, were not revolutionary concepts either. Computers had been available for home users to assemble as kits long before even the Apple I was released. Again, no concept product needed.
Now, if Apple would actually come up with a revolutionary new product that doesn't just add usability improvements to product concepts that are already being sold by their competitors, then maybe Apple would need to test the water with a concept product. I don't see this happening though. - scamper22, on 08/13/2008, -1/+7There is a very big difference between a prototype and a concept product.
A prototype is typically a proof of concept that a design will work. The design though is realistic. I'm sure they had an iphone concept long before the official iphone was released, yet it took account current battery life technology, current display tech, known manufacturing processes..., an approximate cost...
A concept product had nothing to do with reality. It is anything the designer can come up with. For example, a concept iphone might have assumed a futuristic battery tech that could potentially power it.. (or a really new expensive battery that would not really be able to get to market).
A good saying is:
protoype: This is what we WILL do when we work out all the details:
concept: This is what we could do if we lived in a fantasy world. - winmywii, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6"Besides, the target market for concept cars can go and buy a Ferrari or a Porsche or an Aston Martin"
What? The target market for concept cars is a wide range. I mean sure you have crazy futuristic concept that my cost around the same as a porsche or ferrari if they were released, but don't forget cars like the cobalt are concepts at some point. - surferjoemaui, on 08/13/2008, -0/+5'The Art of Making Money'
- inactive, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6What's with all the Apple haters talking about sucking *****? They all seem to mention sucking off Steve Jobs, or blowjobs. You closeted, or just need an outlet?
- jrbrewin, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7i don't buy it! of course apple makes concept products. Its just that they don't show them off to the public or press.
- Radan, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6It's not that easy. The hard part of designing a car is not the aesthetic look of it. Anyone can draw a cool looking car. The difficult task is to make it work as expected. No one would want to buy a car which broke down when you passed 50 km/h. Designing a car is more about physics than art to be honest.
Also, for a car to be able to legally drive on the streets, it needs to pass a number of regulations.
And not to forget, you need to be able to actually build the car too. It's one thing building one single car, but if you want to mass produce it, you are limited to the machines that are available.
Setting up new machines to build a car can cost millions of dollars. - tyme, on 08/13/2008, -0/+5Sorry. In the tech industry, everyone steals ideas from everyone else. Windows steals from Apple and Linux, Linux steals from Apple, and Apple has stolen from Linux. Surprisingly, neither Linux nor Apple really steals from Windows. I wonder why?
- newbill123, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6Back when I worked at a very large financial company, Apple came to us to show off a "not yet ready to ship" product. I was chosen by the head of IT to see it (he wasn't a Mac guy). We had to sign individual, open-ended NDAs for the six people who saw the demo. Apple showed us a server-class product that was not yet on the market.
While Apple is extremely secretive, they hand select companies of influence they show future-products to. You feel like royalty being chosen to see it, but Apple is clearly the one in the driver's seat. Any hint that you've spread this to the press, and you can be sure you'll never be considered for another preview again.
Apple doesn't develop concept products because it can get whatever "influence" it wants by showing off new products it's kept secret. If you're chosen, the product you see will likely be the product that ships; no confusion with undeliverable concept products.*
*The product can change before it ships though. The product we saw was in a case that was not the final industrial design. What they were showing and emphasizing had only minor points involving the design of the case, and this was perhaps how they would know someone at our company leaked the info. I have since left this company. - cadmiumpaint, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7they just sell their concept products...the Newton, G4 cube, iPod, apple TV, the macbook air etc etc. Some catch on, some don't.
i'm sure they have stuff behind the scenes that nobody ever sees thats part of the process...
i like Apple's method when it comes to concepts. nothing is more annoying than when a company brags about blue sky ideas that it can't produce.....like GM and the Chevy Volt. They run so many commercials for a car that will prob. never get made. (yes i know they claim they're gonna make it, its highly doubtful if they can pull it off) - Apocalyptic0n3, on 08/13/2008, -2/+7Because we design the concepts for them.
- Spoomeister, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4That you describe some people who work on a project as "stakeholders" and "approvers", tells a lot about why they don't get things done. (I recognize it b/c I see it at my company too...)
- LMN8R, on 08/13/2008, -4/+8That "fat sweaty imbecile" runs a company that makes Apple's yearly profits every two weeks.
- colincornaby, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4Yeah, like the time they did the iPhone which was completely ripped off from.... ummm.... hmmm... somebody?
- MacParrot, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4meh...and where's the Nomad today? Tech companies borrow...err...procure...umm..OK, steal from each other all the time. Where would Apple be without design ideas licensed from Xerox (no, they didn't steal it). Where would Microsoft be if someone in Apple's legal department hadn't screwed the pooch in the wording of a cross-technology agreement back in 1983? Yes, Microsoft PROCURING patented design ideas from Apple lead to Windows. Apple sued and finally settled, but would have lost because of that poorly worded legal document.
Before you jump all over me, let me say even without Apple shooting itself in the foot, Windows should have been created anyway. The concept of a windowing UI should not (and thankfully wasn't) be limited to one company.
Getting back to the Nomad. Same thing. A folder based UI for data should not belong to one company. As far as the iPhone goes, a touch interface is hardly revolutionary and the Instinct by comparison looks pretty good as well.
Get the tech you want that works best for you. - tonicboy, on 08/13/2008, -1/+5No, you're thinking of Microsoft. No, seriously. I'm not an Apple fanboy, or a Microsoft one, but that really is Microsoft's strategy - to let markets develop/innovate and then to come in late and dominate them. This was true of Internet Explorer, Xbox, SQL Server, Silverlight, .NET, C#, Microsoft Games, Windows Mobile, and so many others. Not a single one of these products pioneered anything, and yet Microsoft was able to to turn them into successful players in their fields. Apple, despite their flaws, has broken new ground numerous times. Macintosh. MacOS (pre-OS X), Newton. AirPort. FireWire. iMac. iPod. iPhone. Hate em or love em, you simply cannot say that they don't break new ground.
- inactive, on 08/13/2008, -1/+5WAAAAHHHH SOMEBODY BUY ME A MACBOOK 8(
- tonicboy, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3The Newton was far, far from concept. Not only was it a fully-baked product, it was extremely advanced. Too advanced, which is part of the reason why it failed. But there are still legions of active Newton users out there. The Pippin was a product of the Gil Amelio years, before Steve Jobs returned to Apple.
- krakelohm, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3If I remember correctly Apple gave like $100 or $200 back to the people that purchased the iphone before the price drop.
- Dalhectar, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4Has a comment ever been this much better than the original article? Compared to the Apple fanboy BS in the Original Post, your comment was actually quite insightful. I'd digg you twice if I could.
- Balanced, on 08/13/2008, -2/+5Actually, that's what the article says... but the net result is the same... Apple focuses on products that are at least possible, while concept products often are just pretty mockups.
- jgatz, on 08/13/2008, -4/+7Apple has a way of picking concepts which also work as products
there is a strong enough fan base that they do not need to build unlaunchable products
they refine iproducts such as mp3 players at the right time for the right price - sudowrestler, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4It's just that male genitalia are the only kind they have any experience with.
- BadAsh71, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3There are "concept products" seen all the time on the Apple Campus. That's where all the "Apple Insider" and other such blogs get their info. I've read countless articles/blogs that mention a "sighting" at the Apple Campus possibly leading on to "what's to come".
- sayssimon, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3agree. make things that work. not for show.
- inactive, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4Yeah, and that Macbook and G4 and iPod and iPhone were nearly the death of them.
And iTunes? What were they THINKING? - lofi4life, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3By "concept" he means products that stayed as a concept and never got produced or are unlikely to get produced. Of course everything starts out as a concept. There is a difference between R&D and marketing.
- whatever01, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3Dude - you work at my company?!
- phoomp, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3Except, of course, we have documented evidence that Apple *has* developed concept products in it's past.
http://redlightrunner.com/apdesworofap.html
http://flickr.com/photos/criana/sets/7215759447251 ...
http://www.amazon.com/Appledesign-Apple-Industrial ...
The only evidence that Apple doesn't currently develop concept products is that we don't see them. For a company as secretive as Apple, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that they develop concept products all the time but never publicize them so that customers can't criticize them when the actual product isn't a cool as the concept and so that Steve can have things to go "Boom!" about during his keynotes.
Nevermind that they have tonnes of Apple fans developing concept products for them.
http://images.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&client=f ... - inactive, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2What did apple steal from linux? And if you say anything about the pager/spaces, know that that was originally a FVWM function, which was an X11 window manager, which had nothing to do with anything inside linux.
- MacParrot, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2The NEXT iPhone will use a Flux Capacitor!
...or at least that's our concept - Terr01, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3The concept/design of a touch-screen phone is incredibly old (1993 at the latest.) Slapping rounded edges onto a rectangular solid does not make it innovative.
- stix213, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3GM has committed to producing the Volt already, and has pretty much staked the future of the company on it.
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