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328 Comments
- cyberdork, on 10/11/2007, -7/+145You have to pay for incoming calls??? Is that normal in the US?
Ridiculous! - svenjick, on 10/11/2007, -10/+113Double Billing. You and the Caller Both Get Charged for the Same Call. --> WTF? Is this true?
- MrKrinkleDude, on 10/11/2007, -13/+92Point 1: Incorrect. A contract is NOT required.
Point 8: Incorrect. No termination fee is required since a contract is not required. Selling your soul to the devil is in fact, optional and is your choice alone.
Point 11: This ticks me off Apple. No secure email or IM clients. This is a must have if you're going to be running around dipping your toe into whatever public wifi is available.
Point 15: I'm scratching my head over this. I've been on nothing but wifi since I bought the thing on June 30th.
Other than that, it's the NSAT&T people. Don't be surprised if they storm your house and point guns at you while you're in the shower. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -11/+84"this device will self-destruct in 3 seconds"
- MyquiH, on 10/11/2007, -10/+80It's worth noting that most of those data (Internet/WiFi) and email restrictions are verbiage required by RIM/Blackberry. You'll find that all providers that sell Blackberry service have the same stipulations on any data device (Blackberry, Windows Mobile, and AT&T w/ the iPhone). While AT&T is more evil than most providers, the real evil here is RIM attempting to squash communications technology to strong arm users into using RIM's infrastructure.
Also, supposedly AT&T is not currently enforcing many of these policies -- they are reserved for "abusers". However, it's completely unclear as to how you become an "abuser", at which time you'll get hammered with a weepable cell phone bill with little recourse to fight back. - mitts2010, on 10/11/2007, -9/+77Those are "surprising revelations"?
- mlawrence, on 10/11/2007, -45/+99what's an iphone?
- dukrous, on 10/11/2007, -3/+53Yes, and it's always been that way in the US. Standard operating procedure.
- jeffiel, on 10/11/2007, -2/+42The supposed telecom expert who read the fine print doesn't seem to understand a lot about telecom. Most importantly, the 150 connection WiFi limit refers to using AT&T's paid WiFi hotspots, not WiFi at your home or anywhere else. It's not even part of the iPhone's wireless plan, and is totally irrelevant.
- alefox, on 10/11/2007, -31/+69ok, no iphone for me, openmoko, here i come!!!
- HarveyBar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+29Americans getting screwed over by large corporate companies....yeah that's new.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+34Hhahahahaa. oh god how do you americans even put up with these ***** companies. we got better mobile companies in india both CDMA and GSM. Country wide roaming is free and not monthly fee charged, No incoming charges if you are getting local calls, Even on CDMA you can easily disconnect with no crappy disconnection fee, Charges are probably one of the lowest in the world, international Messages cost 30 cents a pop, there are no hidden charges, You basically get charged fixed monthly rental and nothing more nothing less and even the phones sold along with the service is not crippled and are full featured. God Americans, how do you even put up with this *****.
- setec, on 10/11/2007, -3/+27Did you register oldjoke as a digg username just to point out mlawrence's old joke? :)
- ibeetle, on 10/11/2007, -9/+33I love how the iPhone critics act like contract requirements, and paying for cell phone service are unique to the iPhone and in someway the consumer is being ripped off.
I have had Verizon, Cingular, and (currently) T-Mobile. I have had a cell phone for 10 years and every company required a service contract of some length of time and monthly payments for that service.
So, note to iPhone critics you look like fools when you say how dare AT&T and Apple require a contract or monthly service payments. What? Your current cell phone carrier lets you use their service for free? - fullstop102, on 10/11/2007, -1/+24Point 15 means the AT&T hotspots not wifi in general. It means the ones they provide in coffee shops and such for free to users who are on their network. In England T-Mobile do the same and host all starbucks coffee shops.
- ejdmoo, on 10/11/2007, -11/+32This spam if I've ever seen it. Very useless article. Those are mostly things true of any cell phone contract, or any unlimited data plan, or any data-capable phone.
- Sphonix, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19Wait up. Can someone from America explain this to me? What is with this 'being charged to ANSWER a call' concept? Is this a standard practice? I'd never heard of the concept before a few months ago and never have understood it. In Australia, it is just a standard, you pay when you call... I really don't get this thing. Someone please do elaborate.
- MrZeebo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17Well, that isn't *completely* true. Here, you pay some monthly fee, and get a big bucket of minutes for the month (generally between 400 and 1000 minutes). Then, both your outgoing and incoming calls deduct from that bucket. And then there's periods of time that are unlimited and don't deduct from that bucket, such as nights & weekends. So you aren't paying for each incoming call, just a bunch of minutes that you can use for any type of call during the non-unlimited periods.
- JackHererUK, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16In the UK and as far as i know the rest of Europe you never pay for incoming calls nor are they deducted from your monthly inclusive minutes. For example it is perfectly possible to get a non contract pay as you go phone, never load it up with any credit and receive incoming only cell phone service without paying anything at all other than the initial cost of the phone and maybe a few pounds for the SIM card.
- toomanyhandles, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17What he said; in the US cell phones have always charged (used minutes) of both parties. Hence the "free family plan" where members of a family call each other "free".
With landlines in the US, only the originating party pays, usually.
Kind of a weird list of things for a telecom "expert" to get upset about. One weird thing was the WiFi conection limit, but someone else said that was only for ATT paid hotspots (?) - fullstop102, on 10/11/2007, -5/+20this is a network item really and not linked to the iphone.. so what you really need to say is no AT&T for you!
- geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18The contract specifies AT&T's WiFi networks. They don't limit it if it's in your own home. It's not that surprising.
- jdblueaudis4, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20First, this Telcom expert fails to understand or fails to communicate properly.
I manage wireless accounts for several of my clients and over the past 5 years I have managed Verizon, T-mobile, Cingular/AT&T, and Sprint/Nextel contracts. What you would be surprised to hear is a good 90% of those provisions are in ever contract. In the US you get charged on your cell phone if you are sending or receiving calls. Fact of life with the exception of limited plans on Sprint/Nextel incoming calls are not free like a land line. This is probably the next big shift we will see in Telcom in the US. Also AT&T is not the type of company to drop someone for over use. In fact I know people who have severely violated their ToU and their contract was never dropped. AT&T is being made out as the "Evil Carrier", but it would have been the same thing on Verizon, T-Mobile or Sprint. Also it was Apples choice not to offer 3G on the phone. I personally use a Blackberry with EDGE and a 3G wireless card both from AT&T. Both are very fast. In fact the 3G card when I am in a good signal area my 3G card is faster then my cable modem.
Also most of these Telcom experts are paid advertisers for different companies. Also I agree with the arguments that the features of the iPhone in some instances tend to contradict the ToU of AT&T. This is probably just an oversight and not the "evil carrier" trying to rip you off. - DDDoc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14This is not inherently locked with the iPhone. This seems to be AT&T's normal contract.
- kazamx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Is this honestly how it works in the US? For once its clear that the UK and the rest of Europe leave the US in the dust.
The idea of both sides getting charged to make a phone call is crazy. OK we do get charged like that if I am in another country, but in your home country never.
We have per second billing over here. If my call lasts 15 sec I am charged for 15 sec. Data is data it doesn't matter where I am sending it to. It seems America needs more competiton between its Mobile carriers. In the UK we have 5 Major carriers and a large number of second tier carriers. All of which have 3G national coverage. - MrKrinkleDude, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Thanks for the clarification. The "blogger" was very vague in his "story".
- MattInChicago, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Same as my ATT data and phone contract.
- superrcat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11I think this is a generic ToS that was retrofitted for the iPhone, since the actual features that were demonstrated are not allowed in this ToS:
"E-mail attachments can not be sent, downloaded, read, or forwarded on the mobile device. Only a paper clip icon appears indicating an attachment. You must view attachments from your PC. "
Obviously a big feature is the ability to view Word, Excel, PDF and image attachments in email messages. Someone should contact AT&T and let them know there is a conflict between the ToS and the features advertised with the iPhone. - Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Sadly, it's also the same in Canada. Any call you make or receive during peak times widdles down your monthly minutes... most carriers will let you make and receive unlimited calls after a certain hour (usually after 6-9pm) and on weekends.
Our cellular services are also fairly old and out-dated... most areas in Canada are still using CDMA or GSM... and downloading on those networks is far slower than 7Mbps... it's slower than 56k. - capecodcarl, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12You pay per minute for airtime whether you are sending or receiving a call. Someone has to pay for the airtime... how do wireless carriers in Australia make money when a land line phone calls you for instance? Do they just eat the cost? Not likely to happen anytime soon in the USA.
- adinu79, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18yeah, and that's what a phone is actually about, looking pretty ... geez *rolleyes*
- chewy5000, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11In Australia the rates are nice, just don't touch data plans or you'll be broke by the second webpage.
- Evolve, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11.... Both parties get charged in US ? Thats insane.
Here its just the initiator of the call that gets charged, not the receiver. - an0nym0us, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Your Mobile service is better than basic amenities? Oh, lawd, what the world has become?!
- trunkster, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10We worry more about monopolies in the US and then 20 years later let them merge back together.
- KielKilla, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12Why is it that everyone that dislikes the openmoko only has that one arguement. "It's ugly". Ugly is more of an opinion. I don't think the apple phone design is anything extraordinary and definitely not worth $600. As far as I'm concerned the openmoko's gui can be completely redesigned by your standards. I think the openmoko looks fine and by fine I mean like any other cell phone so I'm down with that. SUCK IT.
- edzilla, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11So, it's just not iphone users who are getting ripped off, it's all americans with a cell phone...
Now THAT makes me feel a lot better about living in Europe. - Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10All these things have nothing to do with the iPhone and everything to do with AT&T.
- neondiet, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10
Amazes me too. I'm from the UK and while we've still not got it as good as you, we aren't shafted anywhere near as much as our US cousins. If companies over here tried Double Billing, Ofcom (the UK telco regulator) would slap them with a fine so fast it would make their heads spin. - Tippis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Genuine question: is #3 (double billing) something that happens on all US carriers?
No wonder, then, that the cell phone usage differs so wildly between the US and the rest of the world O_o - Eihcet, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Dugg down because this is applicable to all cellphones on AT&T and, imo, pretty common for all cellular contract plans.
- subterfu9e, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Plus, here in Malaysia, one of the mobile providers actually give you points for every minute you yak on an incoming call which you can exchange for minutes. Rewarded for not forking out a cent. Hmmm =)
- trekkie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8AT&T isn't the only carrier in the US that does this. Get some tin cans and string if you don't want to have this type of restriction, it's on all the user agreements from Sprint, AT&T, Alltell, Cellular One, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.
- kcmedic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8"unlimited plans cannot be used for uploading, downloading or streaming of video content"
So does that mean we're violating the tos when we use the built in youtube app? - Croaton, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Here's how it works in Scandinavia... and this is independent of calling from a cellphone or landline. Reciving a call is free. Someone is making an consious atempt to contact you. They want to speak to you so logically they (the caller) takes the cost. This cost is maybe around $0.15 for cellphone/landline to cellphone and about $0.05 landline to landline... Calls cellphone to cellphone or landline to landline within the same carrier is usually free. For both the caller and reciver. Callers pay (most of the time)... reciviers don´t. Someone dails the wrong number... and it cost you a start up fee just to answer?
- alexmuller, on 10/11/2007, -9/+16Limit of "150 Wi-Fi uses per month" - i don't know what that means, but it sounds pretty surprising
- bergerdml, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I feel qualified to answer this question as someone who has lived in both the US and Australia. The US rates I find to actually be much better. It is true, that in the US, we pay both to make and receive calls where as in Australia (and most of the world) we only pay to make calls. However, one of the BIG differences is that there are no surcharges to call a mobile phone. All of you Americans may not realize that it is damn expensive to call a mobile phone in Australia, much more expensive than calling a land line. In the US, calling a mobile costs the same as calling a land line. Also, the per minute charges are MUCH lower in the US. For $40 US (AU$50) per month, I get 1000 minutes a month plus unlimited talk time during nights and weekends. For me, that's more than enough time. I can't use all of those minutes, especially when its the weekends when I talk for hours. In fact, on weekends, I'll sometimes go grocery shopping in Los Angeles while friends go grocery shopping in Washington. We will call each other and go shopping together. And never worry about the bill. It never was like that in Australia (I had telstra and Virgin.)
Additionally, I do not have a land line in the US. There is no need for one. In Australia, because its so expensive to call a mobile, I know people wouldn't call me as much, or wouldn't talk as long, because they know they have to watch the clock while talking.
Another indication of the differences between pricing has to do with the texting culture. In Australia, my mobile (like many other peoples) were mainly used for texting and not actual voice phone calls. This is because the actual voice phone calls were relatively expensive. Here in the US, most people have plenty of talk time that they don't think twice about using minutes and calling people. As a result, SMS didn't seem so appealing. It is slowly catching on here. But I remember when I lived in Australia and wanted to text my friends in America, very few used texting. When I asked why, the reply I got was always "why would I want to spend my time trying to type on a numeric keypad when its easier just to call some one and then you actually get to speak to that person." - superrcat, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8There is not an IM client, so the security of such a client does not apply. There is support for a secure connection to both IMAP and SMTP servers of your provider. If your provider does not have SSL connections supported, that is a limitation of your provider and not the iPhone.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+14Openmoko can be found at www.openmoko.org and it strikes me as really odd that this completely open sourced Linux-based phone isn't making bigger splashes. Also, potp, with Indian calls: This is why my Indian friend is bringing me back a SIM from his trip to India. I will be able to use it here in the UK and call anywhere cheaper than UK plans because - international roaming is FLAT RATE. And in rupees as well. So, openmoko plus an Indian SIM and I have incredibly versatile low-cost mobile phone tech in my pocket. Screw Apple. And screw AT&T.
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