What is Digg?333 Comments
- cyberdork, on 10/11/2007, -7/+145You have to pay for incoming calls??? Is that normal in the US?
Ridiculous! - svenjick, on 10/11/2007, -10/+113Double Billing. You and the Caller Both Get Charged for the Same Call. --> WTF? Is this true?
- MrKrinkleDude, on 10/11/2007, -13/+92Point 1: Incorrect. A contract is NOT required.
Point 8: Incorrect. No termination fee is required since a contract is not required. Selling your soul to the devil is in fact, optional and is your choice alone.
Point 11: This ticks me off Apple. No secure email or IM clients. This is a must have if you're going to be running around dipping your toe into whatever public wifi is available.
Point 15: I'm scratching my head over this. I've been on nothing but wifi since I bought the thing on June 30th.
Other than that, it's the NSAT&T people. Don't be surprised if they storm your house and point guns at you while you're in the shower. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -11/+84"this device will self-destruct in 3 seconds"
- MyquiH, on 10/11/2007, -10/+80It's worth noting that most of those data (Internet/WiFi) and email restrictions are verbiage required by RIM/Blackberry. You'll find that all providers that sell Blackberry service have the same stipulations on any data device (Blackberry, Windows Mobile, and AT&T w/ the iPhone). While AT&T is more evil than most providers, the real evil here is RIM attempting to squash communications technology to strong arm users into using RIM's infrastructure.
Also, supposedly AT&T is not currently enforcing many of these policies -- they are reserved for "abusers". However, it's completely unclear as to how you become an "abuser", at which time you'll get hammered with a weepable cell phone bill with little recourse to fight back. - mitts2010, on 10/11/2007, -9/+77Those are "surprising revelations"?
- mlawrence, on 10/11/2007, -45/+99what's an iphone?
- dukrous, on 10/11/2007, -3/+53Yes, and it's always been that way in the US. Standard operating procedure.
- jeffiel, on 10/11/2007, -2/+42The supposed telecom expert who read the fine print doesn't seem to understand a lot about telecom. Most importantly, the 150 connection WiFi limit refers to using AT&T's paid WiFi hotspots, not WiFi at your home or anywhere else. It's not even part of the iPhone's wireless plan, and is totally irrelevant.
- alefox, on 10/11/2007, -31/+69ok, no iphone for me, openmoko, here i come!!!
- HarveyBar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+29Americans getting screwed over by large corporate companies....yeah that's new.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+34Hhahahahaa. oh god how do you americans even put up with these ***** companies. we got better mobile companies in india both CDMA and GSM. Country wide roaming is free and not monthly fee charged, No incoming charges if you are getting local calls, Even on CDMA you can easily disconnect with no crappy disconnection fee, Charges are probably one of the lowest in the world, international Messages cost 30 cents a pop, there are no hidden charges, You basically get charged fixed monthly rental and nothing more nothing less and even the phones sold along with the service is not crippled and are full featured. God Americans, how do you even put up with this *****.
- ibeetle, on 10/11/2007, -9/+33I love how the iPhone critics act like contract requirements, and paying for cell phone service are unique to the iPhone and in someway the consumer is being ripped off.
I have had Verizon, Cingular, and (currently) T-Mobile. I have had a cell phone for 10 years and every company required a service contract of some length of time and monthly payments for that service.
So, note to iPhone critics you look like fools when you say how dare AT&T and Apple require a contract or monthly service payments. What? Your current cell phone carrier lets you use their service for free? - setec, on 10/11/2007, -3/+27Did you register oldjoke as a digg username just to point out mlawrence's old joke? :)
- fullstop102, on 10/11/2007, -1/+24Point 15 means the AT&T hotspots not wifi in general. It means the ones they provide in coffee shops and such for free to users who are on their network. In England T-Mobile do the same and host all starbucks coffee shops.
- ejdmoo, on 10/11/2007, -11/+32This spam if I've ever seen it. Very useless article. Those are mostly things true of any cell phone contract, or any unlimited data plan, or any data-capable phone.
- MrZeebo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17Well, that isn't *completely* true. Here, you pay some monthly fee, and get a big bucket of minutes for the month (generally between 400 and 1000 minutes). Then, both your outgoing and incoming calls deduct from that bucket. And then there's periods of time that are unlimited and don't deduct from that bucket, such as nights & weekends. So you aren't paying for each incoming call, just a bunch of minutes that you can use for any type of call during the non-unlimited periods.
- Sphonix, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19Wait up. Can someone from America explain this to me? What is with this 'being charged to ANSWER a call' concept? Is this a standard practice? I'd never heard of the concept before a few months ago and never have understood it. In Australia, it is just a standard, you pay when you call... I really don't get this thing. Someone please do elaborate.
- JackHererUK, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16In the UK and as far as i know the rest of Europe you never pay for incoming calls nor are they deducted from your monthly inclusive minutes. For example it is perfectly possible to get a non contract pay as you go phone, never load it up with any credit and receive incoming only cell phone service without paying anything at all other than the initial cost of the phone and maybe a few pounds for the SIM card.
- toomanyhandles, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17What he said; in the US cell phones have always charged (used minutes) of both parties. Hence the "free family plan" where members of a family call each other "free".
With landlines in the US, only the originating party pays, usually.
Kind of a weird list of things for a telecom "expert" to get upset about. One weird thing was the WiFi conection limit, but someone else said that was only for ATT paid hotspots (?) - geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18The contract specifies AT&T's WiFi networks. They don't limit it if it's in your own home. It's not that surprising.
- fullstop102, on 10/11/2007, -5/+20this is a network item really and not linked to the iphone.. so what you really need to say is no AT&T for you!
- kazamx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Is this honestly how it works in the US? For once its clear that the UK and the rest of Europe leave the US in the dust.
The idea of both sides getting charged to make a phone call is crazy. OK we do get charged like that if I am in another country, but in your home country never.
We have per second billing over here. If my call lasts 15 sec I am charged for 15 sec. Data is data it doesn't matter where I am sending it to. It seems America needs more competiton between its Mobile carriers. In the UK we have 5 Major carriers and a large number of second tier carriers. All of which have 3G national coverage. - DDDoc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14This is not inherently locked with the iPhone. This seems to be AT&T's normal contract.
- MrKrinkleDude, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Thanks for the clarification. The "blogger" was very vague in his "story".
- jdblueaudis4, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20First, this Telcom expert fails to understand or fails to communicate properly.
I manage wireless accounts for several of my clients and over the past 5 years I have managed Verizon, T-mobile, Cingular/AT&T, and Sprint/Nextel contracts. What you would be surprised to hear is a good 90% of those provisions are in ever contract. In the US you get charged on your cell phone if you are sending or receiving calls. Fact of life with the exception of limited plans on Sprint/Nextel incoming calls are not free like a land line. This is probably the next big shift we will see in Telcom in the US. Also AT&T is not the type of company to drop someone for over use. In fact I know people who have severely violated their ToU and their contract was never dropped. AT&T is being made out as the "Evil Carrier", but it would have been the same thing on Verizon, T-Mobile or Sprint. Also it was Apples choice not to offer 3G on the phone. I personally use a Blackberry with EDGE and a 3G wireless card both from AT&T. Both are very fast. In fact the 3G card when I am in a good signal area my 3G card is faster then my cable modem.
Also most of these Telcom experts are paid advertisers for different companies. Also I agree with the arguments that the features of the iPhone in some instances tend to contradict the ToU of AT&T. This is probably just an oversight and not the "evil carrier" trying to rip you off. - MattInChicago, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Same as my ATT data and phone contract.
- capecodcarl, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12You pay per minute for airtime whether you are sending or receiving a call. Someone has to pay for the airtime... how do wireless carriers in Australia make money when a land line phone calls you for instance? Do they just eat the cost? Not likely to happen anytime soon in the USA.
- superrcat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11I think this is a generic ToS that was retrofitted for the iPhone, since the actual features that were demonstrated are not allowed in this ToS:
"E-mail attachments can not be sent, downloaded, read, or forwarded on the mobile device. Only a paper clip icon appears indicating an attachment. You must view attachments from your PC. "
Obviously a big feature is the ability to view Word, Excel, PDF and image attachments in email messages. Someone should contact AT&T and let them know there is a conflict between the ToS and the features advertised with the iPhone. - Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Sadly, it's also the same in Canada. Any call you make or receive during peak times widdles down your monthly minutes... most carriers will let you make and receive unlimited calls after a certain hour (usually after 6-9pm) and on weekends.
Our cellular services are also fairly old and out-dated... most areas in Canada are still using CDMA or GSM... and downloading on those networks is far slower than 7Mbps... it's slower than 56k. - adinu79, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18yeah, and that's what a phone is actually about, looking pretty ... geez *rolleyes*
- Evolve, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11.... Both parties get charged in US ? Thats insane.
Here its just the initiator of the call that gets charged, not the receiver. - an0nym0us, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Your Mobile service is better than basic amenities? Oh, lawd, what the world has become?!
- trunkster, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10We worry more about monopolies in the US and then 20 years later let them merge back together.
- chewy5000, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11In Australia the rates are nice, just don't touch data plans or you'll be broke by the second webpage.
- edzilla, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11So, it's just not iphone users who are getting ripped off, it's all americans with a cell phone...
Now THAT makes me feel a lot better about living in Europe. - Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10All these things have nothing to do with the iPhone and everything to do with AT&T.
- neondiet, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10
Amazes me too. I'm from the UK and while we've still not got it as good as you, we aren't shafted anywhere near as much as our US cousins. If companies over here tried Double Billing, Ofcom (the UK telco regulator) would slap them with a fine so fast it would make their heads spin. - KielKilla, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12Why is it that everyone that dislikes the openmoko only has that one arguement. "It's ugly". Ugly is more of an opinion. I don't think the apple phone design is anything extraordinary and definitely not worth $600. As far as I'm concerned the openmoko's gui can be completely redesigned by your standards. I think the openmoko looks fine and by fine I mean like any other cell phone so I'm down with that. SUCK IT.
- Eihcet, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Dugg down because this is applicable to all cellphones on AT&T and, imo, pretty common for all cellular contract plans.
- trekkie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8AT&T isn't the only carrier in the US that does this. Get some tin cans and string if you don't want to have this type of restriction, it's on all the user agreements from Sprint, AT&T, Alltell, Cellular One, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.
- Tippis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Genuine question: is #3 (double billing) something that happens on all US carriers?
No wonder, then, that the cell phone usage differs so wildly between the US and the rest of the world O_o - subterfu9e, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Plus, here in Malaysia, one of the mobile providers actually give you points for every minute you yak on an incoming call which you can exchange for minutes. Rewarded for not forking out a cent. Hmmm =)
- kcmedic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8"unlimited plans cannot be used for uploading, downloading or streaming of video content"
So does that mean we're violating the tos when we use the built in youtube app? - VirtualRichard, on 10/11/2007, -7/+14Openmoko can be found at www.openmoko.org and it strikes me as really odd that this completely open sourced Linux-based phone isn't making bigger splashes. Also, potp, with Indian calls: This is why my Indian friend is bringing me back a SIM from his trip to India. I will be able to use it here in the UK and call anywhere cheaper than UK plans because - international roaming is FLAT RATE. And in rupees as well. So, openmoko plus an Indian SIM and I have incredibly versatile low-cost mobile phone tech in my pocket. Screw Apple. And screw AT&T.
- emerrill, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Yeah. This is completely the AT&T TOS, not the iPhone TOS, where are 2 completely separate agreements that you agree to in the activation process.
Lets see:
1) iPhone Requires a 2-Year Contract with AT&T.
Correct. Pretty standard in the US market though.
2) Expensive: Requires $2,280, Over $1,730 in Wireless Costs.
Once again, technically correct, but the cheapest you can get a phone on a 2 year contract would be ~1000, with no data/messaging.
3) Double Billing. You and the Caller Both Get Charged for the Same Call.
4) All Use of the Networks Are Always Rounded Up to the Nearest Kilobyte or Minute.
5) Customers Are Billed for “Network Errors” and “Network Overhead".
6) Billed Even Though the Call Doesn't Go Through.
7) Bogus Fees Added to the Bill: Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge
8) $175.00 Termination Fee.
All these are just plain normal US term of cell use.
9) International Messages Are Charged Additional Fees as Are Files Over 300Kbps.
Way to completely distort the facts. It is not 'Files' over 300KB (we wont even get into the differences between KB, Kb, and Kbps). This term is very clearly for MMS messages over 300KB, which the iPhone doesn't fricken support anyways.
10) Over Your Quota: Get Gouged: 40¢ Per Minute and 69¢ Roaming Offnet.
11) The Services Are Not Secure and Can't Block Your Phone Number.
Both of these are normal contact boilerplate. In fact, usually your rate plane includes a reduced per minute charge when you go over.
12) The Current Mobile Email Service Doesn't Support Attachments.
I like how he bolded this, yet it is not true for the iPhone. There are some phones that they provide that have email service, but don't do attachment, that is why they include this.
13) Prohibited Uses and “Unlimited” Sales Hype.
14) Service Is Not Intended to Provide Full-Time Connections: Unlimited is Hype - Don’t use the service too much or the phone company can terminate your service.
Once again, standard. They put this in there so they can get out of contacts with abusers. I have never had a problem with Cingular/AT&T and my other data phones. They are know where near as bad as Verizon with this. He also bolds that you can't teather to a laptop w/o paying more. Correct, but once again, the iPhone doesn't support this anyways.
15) Wi-Fi Service is Limited - "To ensure that the Wi-Fi Service is not being used fraudulently, AT&T limits your usage of the Wi-Fi Service to 150 uses per month"
That is for AT&T's Wi-Fi service, not that iPhones Wi-Fi.
16) “Offnet” Restrictions
17) Plan Goobly-gook
Standard US contact
18) Comparing US and Other Broadband Countries: America Is being Laughed At.
19) The Upcoming Wireless Spectrum Auctions
Yup, but how is that Apple or the iPhones fault?
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This entire article is just a bash at the standard US cell restrictions. While I agree they suck, they have no relation to the iPhone. The only reason this person included iPhone in the title is to boost readership of it. The actual iPhone TOS include none of this crap. Only #1 & 2 can really be tied to the iPhone at all. - alexmuller, on 10/11/2007, -9/+16Limit of "150 Wi-Fi uses per month" - i don't know what that means, but it sounds pretty surprising
- ronaldinho, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7in Asia you don't have to pay for incoming calls, so if you are popular and people call you all the time, your cell phone service doesn't cost a dime
- superrcat, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8There is not an IM client, so the security of such a client does not apply. There is support for a secure connection to both IMAP and SMTP servers of your provider. If your provider does not have SSL connections supported, that is a limitation of your provider and not the iPhone.
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