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- Hercules, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27Hate to be the anti-Apple guy here (and for it I know i'll be dugg down), but frankly, the Xbox 360 *is* better.
If you have a media center PC in your house, you can play back recorded television from your 360. This essentially makes it double as a DVR, because you can schedule your recordings and everything through the 360. You can view pictures, play music (let's face it -- most music is unprotected anyway, and if you're "geeking" it up by getting the 360 or AppleTV to play music, you've already stripped DRM).
And on top of that, it's a gaming console that has a lot of fun games.
When the Apple TV becomes a Tivo, doesn't lock me into using iTunes to view digital movies (I have to buy them all anyway), then it might be worthwhile. But since Vista comes standard with Media Center, I think that will be the more likely way to go for me at least.
Not to say the Apple TV is a bad product, but there are better ones out there already. - miniboss, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I'll be honest. I have no problem overpaying for the Apple logo and I wouldn't mind dropping $300 for an AppleTV IF it played all my media. But considering all the limitations of the AppleTV then its a shame that it is getting so much attention while better products are getting ignored.
Why isn't there any news on the upcoming Slingcatcher (makers of the Slingbox). Its a similar device but it is media-agnostic so it plays ANY media type (including iTunes purchased movies), it does video mirroring so you can see your computer on the TV and it supports web clips. And best of all, its only $200. - Bigcat1021, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Apple is never a company to compete with features. They compete with user experience, and although you are absolutely correct in saying that the 360 is a better option for you (and most diggers/technically competent people), the average Joe will prefer the simplicity of Apple TV.
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Apple TV is a huge snooze. You're paying $300 for the privilege of buying content from iTMS. Yawn. For $300, I could buy a 21" widescreen LCD and a TV tuner card for my PC and do a hundred things that Apple TV doesn't do. I could even run an S-Video cable from my TV tuner card to my TV, and stream all of that content there.
Wake me up when Apple TV has a coax input, PVR capabilities, and a Blu-Ray drive. - chowda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7http://digg.com/software/CastCluster_OS_project_turns_YouTube_video_into_iTunes_friendly_podcasts
I wrote that in anticipation of the AppleTV coming out and needing more content for it. Right now it does YouTube videos and videos on the local disk that are already iTunes friendly.... and it's not the easiest thing to set up... but it's in active development and once I get my AppleTV (friday) I'll be adding more features and cleaning it up. - eizooo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15From the article:
'And Xbox 360 can do something Apple TV can't do, at least not yet, which is to directly purchase and download movies and TV shows from the Internet.'
' ... it can't stream much video or audio directly from the Internet ...'
And the best:
'The capability to go directly to the Internet, bypassing the computers in your home, is built in, but is initially being used only to fetch feature film trailers and short preview clips of popular songs, TV shows and movies sold on the iTunes store. Apple TV also won't allow you to buy media directly from the iTunes store. You must first download content from the Internet or iTunes on a computer, and then Apple TV will grab it from the computer and play it on the TV.' - MrBabyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"The Kingmaker"
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.05/mossberg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Mossberg - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"iTV doesn't even have a volume control"
I keep seeing this gripe repeated. How, exactly, is iTV supposed to control your volume? Your volume is controlled through your TV or AV receiver. iTV is audio line in only - the volume level is not variable. My DVD remote doesn't have a volume control, nor did my old VCR remote. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7fuxjoey,
it only supports files which are playable in iTunes/iPod, which includes those you download from the iTunes store, those songs you've legally ripped from CDs, those movies that you've imported from Quicktime Pro (with their nifty export to AppleTV option), and, for bigredgpk, those Divx/Xvid movies you've converted to AppleTV/iPod format using iSquint or Visual Hub. - kilofox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The 360 makes too much noise for a living room in my opinion. Sounds like freight train. Its plain ugly and looks out of place compared to my other entertainment components.
Apple TV can stream from 5 different computers, supports 802.11n. I dont think the 360 can do either. In my case I will be using the ATV drive for pictures only, the rest of my iTunes media is on a 1TB ReadyNAS on my network. I leave my iMac on till I sleep so access wont be a problem.
I think as a media center the ATV has an edge over the 360 and I expect that gap to grow as Apple improves iTMS and AppleTV - TheRealDeal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5One thing that the majority of people don't understand is that the inability of AppleTV to play DivX and xVid are really non-issues. The popularity of this box from almost day one is going to change the landscape of what we will see out there on the bittorrent sites and the rest of the 'net. Pretty soon you are going to see videos available for download specifically in "AppleTV" format. Just as you see "iPod formatted" videos for download all over the net now. Of course these are just within spec h.264 or mpeg4 videos. Either way, support for other formats will just become a non-issue. The ubiquity of the platform will create ubiquity of content in formats that the platform understands. The potential market of people that are poised to purchase this box (the sea of current iTunes users) far (and I mean FAR) outnumbers the amount of people (mainly hard core geeks) that are wedded to DivX and xVid.
My prediction..in a year's time most of us will really not be talking about DivX, XVid, etc. More often than not the format of choice will h.264. Book it. - regexp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Sigh ... Mossberg touches on this in his article if you actually read it. But let me rephrase it for you - I have 3 modded xboxes in my house all playing video from a disk farm in the basement. This works well -for me-. It doesn't work well -for anyone else-. It doesn't work well for my non-tech family, my non-tech friends, or non-tech anyone else. Overall - there are a lot more non-tech people then there are tech people. Which is why I purchased one of these. Basic, simple, and reliable.
According to fedex - my AppleTV left HK yesterday around 11pm. - shockwavedave, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9great link, apple.com couldn't even link to the full article.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"I have just one question - Can it play Divx videos that I download via bittorrent?"
Thief. Just buy DVDs instead. - SLH06, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I think AppleTv won't be that big of a success. When the only media you can watch is the stuff in your iTunes library. The average consumer already has sat/cable, tivo, dvd players. Why would they need the AppleTv unless their compulsively buying $10 and $15 movies and $2 tv shows on the iTunes store. And yes I know that you can play any movie on your computer not just what you get thru the iT store but do you think the average joe is willing to spend hours illegally converting his dvd colection to .mov files? The only way I could see a good reason for the AppleTv is if they allow you to rent movies for $3 and keep it for 5 days or something like what Netfilx is doing. People don't watch the same movie over and over like they listen to music.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5geoken,
He didn't ask "directly". lighten up, dude. - mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11A favorable Mossberg review of an Apple product...SHOCKER!
- picaman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Exactly. Just like the famous Slashdot posts when the iPod came out.
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257 - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Apple certainly has had their string of successes lately, but they've also had quite a lot of failures too. I happen to think that the Apple TV will not do that well simply because I don't think the audience this box is targeted at (people who just want to plug it in and for it to work), will be willing to spend that much money downloading restricted and limited content off the iTunes music store on a regular basis."
And home movies and video podcasts. You don't have to rely only on ITMS for video content.
"Furthermore, Xbox 360 already has a huge installed base, can pretty much do everything the Apple TV can do and substantially more, can purchase media directly of Xbox Live, and is all in all pretty easy to use."
Yes but it's a game console first which limits who is going to buy it. Those are nice features to discover when you own one but are not going to draw a lot of people by themselves - when it's more expensive than the iTV.
"Microsoft could easily have created an Apple TV like box years ago, and in fact I think they did create a prototype that failed spectacularly,"
WebTV? They bought that and ran it into the ground. It was all about internet on the TV, not video.
Microsoft could have built an iTV, in the same way Palm COULD have built the iPhone two years ago. The fact is they did not.
"I think Apple realizes that Apple TV probably won't do that well, which is why they underplayed it and overhyped the iPhone instead earlier this year at the conference."
It was more important to mention that leopard or any software update like iLife. Just think about that for a moment to realize how important it really is - that it was even on the same stage with the iPhone was a strategic move. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6> If you have a media center PC in your house
No one has a media center PC in their house. On the other hand, there are 110 million iTunes users. - aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@Hercules: Do most people need a game console? Do you have no problem that it is Windows only? I assume you don't use iTMS?
Divx is not generally what people save their home movies in. It is also not be best codec codec out there. H264 is the best cross-platform codec out there for video. The majority of DivX media that I've encountered so far is pirated movies on the net.
As far as I know, there are no online stores selling DivX format.
Also, window does not by default support DivX. Does the Xbox by default support it? - PDelahanty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Apple TV + diggnation = teh win
- TheRealDeal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@sjgmoney.
I have a PVR and I use iTunes. From my experience and that of my wife's....iTunes wins hands down.
There are a few problems with the PVR concept:
-The number of tuners is a limitation.
Ever try to record 3 programs that occur at the same time on a 2 tuner box? Nope doesn't work. Pick two of the shows and hope that the third comes on at another time. Ever try to record 2 shows at the same time and watch a third live broadcast. Nope doesn't work. Same problem as above.
On iTunes I can download a bunch (nice technical term..I know) of shows at the same time. They are just simple file downloads.
- Also because PVR downloads are off a broadcast schedule that is based on the real time serialized past method of programming. You have to deal with selecting whether you will be recording "first run" shows, "all episodes", "repeats" on all channels on which the show occurs or just one channel, etc.. Not brutal to navigate, but it can become confusing and prone to error. Then you have your Significant Other questioning your PVR programming capabilities. "Why didn't Numbers get recorded last night?!?"
Again with iTunes none of the above problems.
PVRs are a bridge technology. They enable random access to a very serialized programming architecture of the past. Granted they do their job well, BUT a pure internet type model like iTunes which is basically random access from the ground up (the only limiting factor being when the content file is released to the 'net by the content owner) is much more convenient! - WiZZLa, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Walt Mossberg likes an Apple product and gives it high praise in his review? Quelle surprise!
- jessica12045, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6This was a really positive review -- I have a feeling this will sell a ton of these boxes.
What I don't get is, ad-supported internet TV is going to be the standard. WIll Apple force themselves into a niche?
If you read about it from the ad-side, it becomes clear this advertising money has to go somewhere:
http://advancedmediacommittee.typepad.com/emmyadvancedmedia/2006/10/tvvideo_web_inv_1.html
Ad-support internet TV is theonly real options. Will Apple really turn this money down?
- Jessica - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3hm, i wonder if Uncle Walter isnt a shareholder himeself?
- duke_nate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Blazeup, you fail when it comes to the internets. Go clog someone elses tubes.
- cbreaker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"They compete with user experience, and although you are absolutely correct in saying that the 360 is a better option for you (and most diggers/technically competent people), the average Joe will prefer the simplicity of Apple TV."
If you're trying to tell me that the Xbox user interface is somehow difficult to use, then exactly who do you expect to be using these things? I mean, are you going to try and sell them in the 1920's? - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If you think about it, PVR's are idiotic.
Why should I care when something is "broadcast". I should be able to download that thing any time after release. That is what the internet offers, and is much nicer than all of the complexities that tuners involve.
Apple's answer to PVR features is that you can buy a season of a TV show on ITMS, and when a new episode arrives, it will automatically download. In addition to that, the iTV will automatically sync new downloaded TV shows onto its internal drive so you don't even have to rely on the network being OK when you finally sit down to watch it. I have a few shows that I have been too busy to watch for a while, yet ITMS has been downloading them every week and so when I have enough free time to catch up, there they are - just like a PVR but with less work to configure it all. - SimonGray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/652.html
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4This is one of those posts I'm going to save and refer to in a years' time.
- mshea, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm really looking forward to the release. I don't have cable TV. I get the shows I want entirely through iTunes. I hate DRM but for the cost I still save a lot of money including the cost of Apple TV. BitTorrent is the only other real option for shows like the Shield and Battlestar Galactica and a nasty note from my cable provider pushed me off of that pretty quick.
As far as other media formats, it matters to those who download media from BitTorrent but most mainstream users really only deal with DVD. Now they might deal with DVD and iTunes but most users don't have DIVX or Xvid or the other miriad of formats that matter to Digg-reading techie junkies.
My mom could use and would love a device like this.
There is one major problem not outlined in Mossberg's article: iTunes lacks high definition movies and TV shows. We're spending $300 for a device that, by definition and design, only really works with HDTVs (yes, EDTVs too but those are rare) but does not have even the video quality of DVDs.
I'm guessing that over the next couple of months we will see a lot more 720p content released but right now we're buying an HD device to watch sub-DVD quality video. That just doesn't make sense.
Either way, I'm still excited and I'll be there Friday to pick one up. - meboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My question is how do you encode something w/ 5.1 sound that the AppleTV will pass through properly to a receiver?
Also if the iTMS offered 720p movies w/ 5.1 I would totally switch the way I purchase movies. - prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2quix: my TiVo can control the volume on my TV.. turn it on and off too. I don't even know where my TV remote is anymore.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"who would pay $500 for a mp3 player that only works on Macs?"
The above is typical of comments on the original iPod in forums just like this. Like the iPod, the Apple TV is a platform for further growth. Same goes for the Zune, BTW.
And I think you're overlooking the value of the TV component. Movies won't hit their stride until they are 720p. - Rooster99, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4For ***** sake! This is the 3rd bloody time in a row! Have a look at his previous comments - The exact same ***** on the last 3 dugg stories. Bury this douche
- LilBoyLuver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4While I will not personally be buying this version of the Apple tv, I cannot wait to see what Apple does in this field in the future. I do not think they will ever have DVR functionality because that seems counterproductive to their business model, I hope for some features such as hd itunes downloads and being able to purchase directly from your couch.....Not that I am lazy.
- stealthrocket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Probably not. You will have to convert them using iSquint or better yet, visual Hub.
- miniboss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@yikiad
"I agree, but give it time. I'm sure there will be hacks o'plenty once this is out for a couple months..."
Maybe, but on the contrary then if you jusge by Apple's history then it would prove that Apple has no interest in allowing hacks to this. We still are limited to the formats Apple dictates for our iPods so why would the AppleTV be any different?
Anyway, I'm not saying its a ba product at all because I'm definitely in the market for something like this. I'm just saying that for this much money then we should be paying for a do-it-all product rather than "potential". I was hoping that this whole AppleTV delay was because they were listening to the consumers desire for more format support. - PDelahanty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You realize "buy a computer" means you have to spend MORE than $300 right?
Plus, I don't want a damn computer in my living room...unless it's a laptop on my lap. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4geoken, we get it. You don't like it. We get it.
- TheRealDeal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes AppleTV + Diggnation = The Win.
But,
AppleTV + DiggnationHD would be freakin' Nirvana!! - NewChar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5He's right though. When's the last time Mossy has said anything remotely negative about Apple?
- laplacian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This product is already obsolete. The settop box AT&T provides, the "HomeZone", already has all these features plus DVR and movies on demand. Plus it works with 2 TVs at the same time. The new Tivos are the same I believe.
- TheRealDeal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm going to pull it out a year from now as well. Unfortunately for Topher06, I don't think it's going to be favorable to his "words of wisdom."
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2> I think AppleTv won't be that big of a success. When the only media
> you can watch is the stuff in your iTunes library
My iTunes Library contains all of my DVDs, ripped, as well as most of the DVDs I've rented in the last couple of years. It also contains all of my music. And all of my photos. And all of my podcasts.
Getting that content to my to my living room (particularly my music, podcasts, and photos) in an elegant manner is obviously something that is valuable, considering how much money people spend on their home entertainment systems these days. There has yet to be a product that does this in an elegant manner, and I'm long since past hooking up a Linux PC to my living-room stereo, - LilBoyLuver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Picaman- This is the best post from that page,
Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...
Raise your hand if you have both ...
Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...
There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.
~LoudMusic - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ITMS already does free first episodes of many new series. They are not cutting themselves out of anything, if it makes sense for a show to be free then it will be.
- woodenturkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1before if get insta buried let me say I'm a Wac fan, I use Window/MS and Apple products almost equally. So please avoid some fan boy label, but If you are smart enough (or hell can read) to build a XBMC X-Box, I would go for that option. You can buy a used XBOX for next to nothing, you don't even need to mod with a chip, you don't have to install a new HD if you plan on streaming everything from your PC.I watch You tube videos,Game-trailer Videos,listen to podcast and other web radio,DL game-saves,the list goes on forever.It will even DL the movie / music information and give you the CD / DVD box art. You can soft mod in under 30 minutes with action replay.I like the fact that you are keeping waste down by using a fading tech for new purposes, but what ever makes you happy.
- kilofox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1iTunes' tv shows come with the commercials stripped out. Thats a big plus.
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