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- msaleem, on 10/12/2007, -5/+43Try putting a dell next to an apple. Listen to the fans. The one that sounds like a windmill is the dell. The trade off with apple is that you can work in silence, but it runs a little hot. If you are willing to give that silence up, you can hack the fans to run all the time. It will be noisy, but it will be one cool cat (pun intended).
- FunkyWitDaSysTm, on 10/12/2007, -16/+40but dell's laptop is made of plastic and is thicker. better airflow. but it's a dell, so screw it.
i'll still take the mbp, thank you. - griz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Re: AppleOSuX
>Dell makes a laptop with the same processor and the heat is not an issue. Go figure.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Dell doesn't make one where the processor is housed in an area only 3/4" thick. - chriszma666, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25Your comments and usename make you look like an immature idiot.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18No. Anyone who has even rudimentary experience with processor heat exchange systems (heatsinks, fans, thermal paste) knows--sometimes painfully well--that too much thermal paste applied to a die will absolutely, positively result in much higher processor temperatures.
The reason? Basic heat exchange. The purpose of thermal paste is to provide perfect contact between a processor and its heat sink, doing away with any itty bitty pits and imperfections that always exist on both surfaces. The idea is to fill in the pits and imperfections, creating a smooth surface. If you glop the stuff on, the result is space between the processor and heat sink through which heat cannot pass as efficiently. The heat stays in the die, the die overheats.
While the WHOLE problem may not be with the horribly applied thermal paste, the horribly applied thermal paste is clearly a very important part of whatever compound problem exists in these machines. - livesNbox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I have to disagree.
I have personally performed this procedure on my Macbook Pro and noticed an ENORMOUS heat decrease. Even my wife (who has no idea what thermal grease is) commented the other day "This thing doesn't get nearly as hot anymore."
Note -- The fans DO run more than they did, but I expected that since now the heat is making it to the heat pipe and therefore, triggering the heat sensor correctly. They do NOT run constantly though, not at all.
By the way this is the first Mac that I've ever owned, so save the "fanboy" comments :) - DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16This is wrong. There is a medium between the fans running full blast and not running at all that can keep the computer cool. Just because the author didn't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
- se1zure, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16"So basically, the thermal paste isn't the issue and you have to do far more hardware hacking than you want to just to make a Mac useable?"
How does overheating once in a while make it unusable? That's odd, I'm posting this on the machine you so blatantly label "unusable" now...
If a machine getting hot makes in completely unusable, then there would be no XBOX 360. - Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -20/+33Not to seem like i'm kissing apple's ass, but would you expect a machine that runs up to 5 times faster than an older model to actually be cooler!! Quite simply put, we're not there yet! If you want to have a very fast notebook don't expect it to be able to cool you drink on a warm summers day ;)
- skyhighrockets, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"...far more hardware hacking..."
A firmware update can hardly be called "hardware hacking" - vashmyvindows, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10You should give it further consideration in the winter =)
- aaryn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Logical arguments like the one you made?
- gothicx00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Actually, I can attest to this. I just got a Macbook Pro on Sun. This is a revA model from Nebraska Furniture Mart with the 2.0ghz proc and 1gb RAM and the 100gb HDD. I returned a Gateway MX6710 for this, and the 6710 has a core duo as well, albeit slower, it still runs at the same wattage. As soon as i got it i updated the firmware. This thing does not get any hotter than the 6710 did. In fact the only time it becomes even close to being uncomfortable is when the power is plugged in. The top 3/4 of the left speaker and adjacent area on the bottom do get a little hot, but no where near the skin burning temperature as most users are stating. So this firmware has solved the problem. And while tons of grease is bad especially if you are going to overclock and get real close to the max die temp, when have you ever heard of someone overclocking a Mac
So in short, the adjustment to the firmware has solved most of the problems people had had. But something else to consider is BootCamp *doesn't work* with the current newest firmware. So alot of ppl have shied away from it for that very reason. So hot dual boot box, or bearable temperature box running the best OS on the market. You make the call. - cyrix, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16What about many many claims from people who've said they've reapplied the paste properly and it helped resolve their heat issues somewhat?
- irwhiteboi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8superal- The 3d accelerator on the laptop is really underrated. Ive been stuck on a computer with a intel 828 video chipset, and the 950 or whatever it is on the macbook is 10x better at LEAST then this POS. And quite frankly this chipset with 1024mb of dual channel ram has run some of my games quite well despite its limitations. Of course its nothing compared to my main comp with a 7600gt but it will work fine for CAD apps that I plan on using it for.
- defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10call anything stupid and expect a rebut, stupid.
- jmichaelg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8LowGan - Having a hot laptop doesn't necessarily affect functionality but it definitely affects longevity. Hot chips die faster than properly cooled chips do.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7not really. A thin form factor can actually dissipate heat better if properly designed due to higher surface area to volume ratio. Like a COOLING FIN.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@MikeSD34: Applecare for a Macbook Pro is $350. For a Macbook it is $250
- bowe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7this is exactly right. everybody digg this man up!! Thermal Paste is a poor conductor of heat, much much worse than copper, but somewhat better than air which would be there otherwise. The only use of the paste is to fill in the very tiny gaps that form because the surfaces are not 100% flat. Squirting on a tube full of thermal paste is definitely a bad idea. The thermal resistance of the paste is probably 100x that of copper if not more.
- MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The title of this article says MacBook Pro, which doesn't have an intel integrated graphics card.
- Namco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I thought the guys who reapplied their paste saw a 15 degree celcius decrease in temperature. Or am I smoking something?
- avatarpalin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Fanboy!! hehe sorry dude, but get used to it. Liking an apple product = fanboy, they don't seem to consider the possibility that you might of made an objective decision that was in favor of an apple product.
Or some people out there just can't handle the fact that someone could like a product so much, they have absolute faith in the company / future products.
Me I'm not a fanboy but i think apple computers are simply brilliant.. although to be honest the mighty mouse.. yeah well.. it has a nice box. - dkgreen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Or, you could... read the article and find the link to the original report on O'Reilly's MacDevCenter:
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html?page=1
Unless you'd rather believe there's an O'Reilly-Apple conspiracy. - davidirock, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7The article says that those people may have caused the laptop to go into panic mode and run the fans all the time.
- Ilyanep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I didn't buy applecare with my iPod but i am definitely buying it with the soon-to-be-mine MBP; $3100 is just too much of an investment to make.
- Maverick83, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8That's funny. One guy doesn't get a boost from properly applying thermal paste, several others report to the contrary. Hmmm....
Hold this one person up as the truth, and dismiss all the others as lies. You must need to be ridiculously ignorant to be a hardcore Apple fanboy.
Any overclocking enthusiast knows that thermal paste can make all the difference. There is such a thing as too much, and Apple went past that boundary. This is really simple *****, get it through your head. - signal15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well, I can attest to the fact that thermal paste is at least PART of the problem. When I got my macbook, it ran at 57C at an idle and spiked to 92C under load. I reapplied the paste properly with Arctic Silver 5, and now I'm at 41C at idle and 81C at full load. So, it still does get uncomfortably hot under full load on your lap, but I just toss a book or pillow under it.
Another thing to note is that the thermal paste that was on mine was not gooped on like some of the pics that were floating around the net. However, it was still way too much. There was a visibly thick coating, and obviously no metal to metal contact at all. The paste should just for a very thin layer to fill in the gaps, and this definitely was not the case.
As far as them trading off heat for quiet, this is probably true. My fan isn't even audible until I hit 80C. The real question is if this high heat is going to affect the reliability of the proc over time. Don't high temps cause electromigration? - gatorb6, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5as always, never buy the first gen of anything until they iron out the issues. apple is just like every other company with various problems on version 1.0
- streak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ex-squeeze me!, but O'Reilly's Davidson didn't do the proper controls for a valid comparison with previous efforts. Specifically, he re-applied the goop to the heat pipe and not just to the 3 chips. In doing so, he may have made a poorer contact between heat pipe and the case. This could lead to a build up of heat in the interior that ultimately produces a higher temperature of the case.
Another matter not addressed by Davidson is that the instructions for Arctic Silver state that it can take *weeks* for the material to set completely and that proper setting benefits from hot-cold cycling of the system (by running it for a while, then turning it off until room temperature again). - deadlierchair, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Definitely a good point. However, I believe many of these chips are built to be able to withstand high temperatures. Graphics cards regularly operate at up to 70-75*C under load and seem to do okay. Cooler = better, but hot temperatures aren't a death wish.
- MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If it's anything like my PowerBook, no, no it doesn't.
It's a little hot sometimes, but always usable. - Ilyanep, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11you do know that comments like these end up stupid, right? Basically you post 'why front page at 37 diggs?' Then I read your comment when it has 77 diggs. Then again at 150. Then again at 300. Then at 1000.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Do you always believe everything you read on the Internet? Especially if it requires voiding your warantee on a brand new $1000 purchase?
- panique, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@geminitojanus - Apple does not frown on it's users entirely disassembling their computers, and they will not void your warranty for simply disassembling your computer. Now, if you ***** something up in the process, then yes, it's on you. But if you do a little more research and a little less running your mouth, you can find on multiple occasions that Apple have publicly declared they do not void warranties for people tinkering with their systems.
- yanked, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I concur that the laptop was designed to keep the computer quiet, in exchange for allowing more heat. However, that has completely backfired with my MacBook: the fan comes on at 64 C, and goes off at 63, and it usually takes about 1 second for the temp to drop from 64 to 63, and another second for it to rise back up to 64--and every time, it makes a mooing sound as the fan spins up or down. Very, very annoying.
- theoallardyce, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Steve Jobs is our Lord and anything said against him or the sacred artifacts is blasphemy. I for one think he was making a statement about global warming and how we need to cool down - that's why if you use your notebook in a cool room you wont have these problems.
- gamabunta, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9So I'm supposed to believe an article from a place called "Infinite Loop" isn't from an Apple apoligist and ignore the laws of physics in regards to the thermal paste issue?
- irwhiteboi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7good to know since im considering buying a MacBook this summer
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The real question is: "has Apple fixed the problem in the manufacturing process that lead to the excessive thermal paste?" And if so, did it make a difference?
Oh, and I'm not interested in your "opinion". I want to know if this has been fixed. - deadlierchair, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No reason to have any allegiance to any company. Consider the ATI v. nVidia thing. Every generation, each company gets a new start in my mind. Screw reputation, it's all about quality - does the product cut it or not?
Apple makes a lot of great products, but if they screw up, I'm gonna let 'em have it. Just because they are a 'cool' company should and does not make them perfect! - defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It was never much of a "Macs rule" kind of thing, but more of a "Mac OS X rules!"
- colol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Er, no.
It works exactly the same way it does on Apple's G4 notebooks:
If you want performance at the cost of heat and battery life, set the operation mode to "Increased Performance."
If you want middle-of-the-road, you pick "Standard." Sometimes it'll get a little warm, as do all notebooks, but it's easily avoided by proper usage patterns (e.g., air circulation).
If you want longer battery life and less heat output, you pick "Better Power Savings." - DocDEB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I doubt that "the grease problem" has been fixed yet. These things usually take months to filter through the corporate channels before finally getting a fix. Guess I'll be waiting for revision B MBPs before making a purchase.
- tuxuser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4compare a del with a mac please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Spanca, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I'm not digging this, nor reporting this. There's so many reports going either way to answer the question conclusively. At this stage all we can do is continue using our MBPs with an icebucket handy!
I didn't buy Applecare with my old Powerbook, but I think it's too big of a risk to take with these new machines. - LowGan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i've never owned a mac, but was considering a macbook for my next computer. but then i heard about how hot they run. does this problem effect functionality?
- sixlocal, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@griz
What about the Latitude d420?
For what its worth, I have a D410 right now, and I never hear it. When the fan is running at full, it is still extremely quiet. - xswag, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Apple has been having overheating problems for more than a year now. Apple even said not to put your MB on your lap. They are afraid that you may get burned. That is way to hot. Hopefully the batteries don't start catching on fire also.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/19/warning-from-apple-dont-put-our-laptops-on-your-lap/ - MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's only an extra $100, definitely worth it in my opinion.
Not like buying a mouse at Circuit City for $20 and paying $11 for a service plan.
( I didn't, I have a family member that works there that sold one though... ) -
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