What is Digg?94 Comments
- ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31Two things.
A. We know OSX is a solid platform. Whether or not you use it, most Digg users know it. I know it, and i'm not a mac user. This article brings....nothing to the table.
B. This article wouldn't be half as bad if the author didn't sound like a self-righteous, elitist prick.
This article sucks. There's got to be better stuff out there. - RandomPrecision, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31Except there's no $25,000 prize for putting a virus on Windows. You just enter the nameless halls of the many thousands of Windows virus-writers.
- crazzy88ss, on 10/12/2007, -11/+35not worth $25,000?
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -26/+45you wont see many self replicating viruses around for pc these days, either. Selfreplicating in that they will go out, on their own, and remotely try to hack a computer it finds on the network, either via browsing the network, or by ip. Most pc viruses/malware these days attack by social engineering, or by exploiting internet explorer.
In this respect, the mac is not entirely free of viruses or malware. It has it's share of viruses that spread in this manner.
"I am publicly challenging the many tech industry writers who have so loudly heralded "the growing OS X security risk" over the past few days to step up and show me one thing: just one in the wild virus that infects Mac OS X."
uhm, okay.
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxleapa.html (spreads via ichat)
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxinqtanaa.html (spreads automatically via bluetooth)
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/shrenepoa.html (spreads to other macs on the same network)
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxinqtanab.html (spreads automatically via bluetooth)
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/macamphimixa.html (spreads as an mp3 file) - jcolson, on 10/12/2007, -10/+28http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/osx.leap.a.html - requires user to run
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/osx.inqtana.a.html - proof of concept, requires user to run
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sh.renepo.b.html - requires user to run
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/osx.inqtana.b.html - vulnerability fixed after 10.4.1 (~7/05)
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/macamphimixa.html - is not an OSX trojan - pzzq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17jack campbell is a jerk. just read this: http://www.macintouch.com/mactable.html
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20i think your definition of 'service' is a little off there. I've not seen many viruses that institute themselves as services, as such, for a number of reasons. Namely they are too transparent, and easy to stop / disable. Masking as services.exe can help, but it's still easier for someone as a virus writer to hide their work by not making their virus a service. So, no, most windows viruses do not use this method. Yes, they do set up self restarting exe's, usually multi-layered so that they can not be stopped and deleted.
When a user is running as an administrative user, any file they run has the potential to do anything to the system they are running. An example of Social Engineering would be a user receiving an attachment via email or IM, and running it because they think it is safe. Indeed, examples of the viruses i posted rely on this method.. a file being disguised as another file, or viruses being deployed over iChat. It's easier than hacking an exploitable service, and usually has a better success rate.
A reboot on an infected windows box never reinstalls anything. Yes, it may run again, but that's not the same thing. The SH/Renepo-A virus posted above changes more than the user's home directory (did you read it?).
"SH/Renepo-A is a shell script worm targeted at the Mac OS X platform. If run on your computer (either accidentally or by design), it copies itself to the local startup directory (/System/Library/StartupItems) and to any other mounted volumes, including other computers on your network. SH/Renepo-A also makes infected StartupItems folders world-writeable, thus opening a dangerous backdoor on any system it infects."
yes, it relys on root access, in much the same way as all windows viruses do. As illustrated here.
http://adminfoo.net/node/460
The difference being osx gives users non root access by default. Windows gives root access by default. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+141.) Mac's and mac accessories are more expensive than their PC counterparts.
No, not really. In fact most 'accessories' are platform agnostic.
2.) Macs aren't gaming friendly. However I will admit. They're trying to be with the new intel macs.
They are gaming friendly. Tons of games for the Mac. But, if you want PC games, well then yea, you need a PC. Of course, all the new Macs can run windows, so that, too, is a moot point. - doctechnical, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12You are assuming the primary motivator is money. There's a secondary motivator: fame (or infamy). If you're the FIRST to do something, people go "Wow!". If you're the 10,245th to do something, nobody even looks up.
Of the top of your head (IE, don't Google the answer): What was the name of the FIRST person on the moon? What was the name of the LAST person on the moon? - selloutvixen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Re: Number 2
I have a duo core Intel iMac and when I play WoW on the highest graphics settings, it still runs like butter, and looks fantastic.
I bit the bullet and shelled out the 1300.00 for my iMac, and it's the smartest thing I've ever done. I've gotten more use of it than any of my windows machines combined. - RandomPrecision, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Techically, all viruses are self-replicating - that's their defining feature. Anything that we usually call a virus that doesn't self-replicate is just malware. For that matter, I suppose you could have a virus that isn't malware, it all it does is self-replicate.
- althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9whos taunting? Mac users have taunted virus writers for years and see where it has gone... no viruses. So I say bring on the taunting.
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15>you wont see many self replicating viruses around for pc these days, eithe
i can see you don't look at web logs. ya... hundreds of hits a day by windows machines trying to infect windows machines. thats when its tame. when there is an outbreak... the are streaming in. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Jack Cambell is pretty much known as a Scam artist in the Mac world. He really doesn't need any press.
- dtfinch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Loss of the home directory on a single user system is pretty serious. The rest can usually be reinstalled.
- ingoldsby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Mac's while a bit more expensive are not much more so than a PC w/all the options. For example, the iMac 20" @ 1700 is really not bad when you include the monitor into the mix. But for Apple's outstanding service, OS X and iLife I would gladly pay the extra money (I use a PC at home and a Mac at work).
As for games, this 20" core duo can run Oblivion at 1680x1050 without AA/HDR just fine which is definitely good enough for a non hardcore gamer. - LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5looks like this guy is a fraud!
- eybear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5After reading up on Jack Campbell, I'm reluctant to believe anything he has to say. On top of it all, he is a scammer trying to make illegal business from Apple products. Downright scum of the earth!
- alexdagrate, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7The author sounds like a self-righteous, elitist prick because he is Jack Campbell, a very shady character responsible for DVForge and a host of other craptacular Mac-centric companies like MacMice. I bought his "TheMouseBT," the first Mac-y wireless bluetooth mouse with a scroll wheel, and it was a POS.
This story does a much better job laying it all out (buried inside of a blog)
http://digg.com/apple/Experts_Trash_Mac_Security_Warnings - wilkeson, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10While people have modded you down, you are correct, to a point. Sure people could make $25,000 in one shot by making the virus, but that would be all they would make. After all, one of the points of most Windows malware is to take control of the machine, and then sell zombie machines in bulk. Which is going to bring in more cash? 15,000 Windows machines or 500 Macs? It's all about the long-term investment.
Also, it's worth note that the vast majority of windows viruses out there today are simply pieced together by "script-kiddies" from freely available code. At present there is no code-base available for those wishing to write a virus for Macs. - eybear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There's no need to take Jack Campbell's commentary as facts. At all. What we need is a new option in the [problems?] drop down box to mark "Scam".
- CaughtThinking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Guess what, I don't have a paparazzi problem either. Mac doesn't have the numbers in sales to be worth hacking, nor it is at the center of any important system, such as air traffic control, government data, or entertainment, the list goes on and on.
Sorry guess, the reason people don't hack Macs is because NO ONE CARES. - Matt2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Viruses propogate through intimate contact in densley populated areas. This analogy doesn't fit in the Mac world .. yet. Why is that hard to understand.
- dwight0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3[13:51] rustyskin: to get a super hot girl, you have to be mean, they like bad boys
[13:52] TiX311: but you're right. this girl that I've always been mean to always tells her sister that she wants to date me
[13:52] TiX311: and I'm like, "Leave me alone, bitch"
[13:52] TiX311: and she keeps coming back
[13:53] TiX311: I got drunk and made out with her one night
[13:53] TiX311: and but before i left, i infected her mac with a virus
[13:53] TiX311: nothing more
[13:58] TiX311: I should have injected her with my worm - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Ah, I love the stench of OS X vs. Windows in the early afternoon ;)
I'm too busy to trail off into my usual babble about security and permissions, so I'll just leave us with a few facts:
Fact: It IS considerably more difficult to infect OS X to the extent that windows can be infected with no user interaction (regarding both systems)
Fact: Even with user interaction, it would still remain difficult to infect OS X to the same extent, unless the user is logged in as root
Fact: Many parts of windows that make it easy for viruses and malware to infect a system are not even present in Mac OS
No amount of market share arguments can make these facts false. Some of you guys are looking at this way too one sidedly. Is Mac OS perfectly secure? Not by a long shot. No OS is. Is it more secure than windows? Yes! Should all windows users stop using windows this instant and switch to Mac? Absolutely not! - althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The ratio of experienced mac users (capable of repairing their machine) to the ones who can't is much better than the ratio of windows users capable of repairing their machine to the ones who can't. Some windows users think most mac users are not savy and they think this because they figure why would one want to use a system thats touted as "easier to use". Ahhh the ignorance of the windows only user. The users I truly appreciate are those who use both and KNOW both very well, like myself. I gotta say my build of bista 5308 is not running to bad.
- jnorris441, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"That's right, folks... NOT ONE. Not the first. Ever. Never. Zero."
Very good, that's what none means. You get a cookie. - DefensiveCore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Let's just hypothetically assume now, that maybe there is a way to exploit OSX much in the same way as in an unpatched XP (or badly configured, unprotected, etc.).
If you are the modern day "business-man" malware writer, what's the point of letting the cat out of the bag before it reaches it's full potential? This probably follows for all operating systems. A person out for money in the shady world will if smart, not release any malware until it can be potentially more profitable. If you find a profitable vulnerability for OSX? For Vista? Do you give up your surprise on launch day of Vista for no profit? No. You bet against someone else finding the flaw, and sit on that vulnerability until a better opportunity comes a long. - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What this guy is asking isn't what you find on Windows either. He just pretends to know wtf he's talking about, but has no clue what the difference between what is malware, a virus, and a worm. When is the last time you found something on windows that was self propagating and user independent? Sasser?
- chickenlegs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I heard that the owner of this contest is a S C A M M E R - aka Jack Campbell. See http://www.macintouch.com/mactable.html After all, he's running his operation from blogspot.com ?? He's just using this to sell products see http://www.macmice.com/virus.shtml notice the url ends with virus, yet you do not see anything about virus on the page. This was redirect from his S C A M company http://www.dvforge.com/virus.shtml
- JeffS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Write a Mac OS X virus, claim the prize, go to prison for several years. Damn, I wonder why no takers.
- DigitAl56K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Hey! I've just written the first self replicating virus for Mac OS X! Give me my $25K!"
"Sure, and along with your riches you also win a 5 year stay in a JAIL CELL!"
Come on, nobody is going to try to claim that prize. We know that self-replicating viruses are possible for OS X - just look at all the vulnerabilities Apple has patched since OS X was released that could have enabled them IF anyone valued development of viruses on that platform. Clearly they don't. - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5is Smugness considered a self-replicating virus?
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2>It was modded away, since this sight is pro mac now, and the article was found to be anti-mac,
i love it. there aren't enough macs to make anything worth anything. all computers for any practical measure are windows. and digg management has become not just pro mac... but anti windows... and all these mac people are part of a giant conspiracy.
or else. there are more macs out there than you think... or more than bill says there are anyway.
im going to give away the secret. macs really aren't more expensive. its that you are also paying dues into the secret society of macs and our god steve jobs... well he's god. :D chumps. - aalku, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That is because Mac owners do not know how to code a virus. Lend me a Mac and I will do it.
- dustyshadow, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9maybe they should advertise their contest a little more. I had never heard of until now. Maybe that's why no one has stepped up to the plate.
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i'm a windows user. I've used a mac, i've owned a mac running osx (was given it), i no longer have it.
I'm still a windows user. - yogiincork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2hey..."breakout" is alright ;)
- dwight0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3how many people can write viruses? how many people can write code for macs?
- althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While the "market share" of the Mac hovers around 4% to 5%, the actual installed base is far larger. The estimated number of OS X Macs in use, according to surveys done by Consumers Reports and Popular Science, is approaching 25,000,000. Crackers have written viruses targeting computers and devices with much smaller installed bases. Viruses have been written targeting an installed base of fewer than 12,000 machines (Witty Worm). Other viruses were written targeting a cell phone with fewer than 100,000 potential infectees. A worm was written that targeted a router with an installed base of fewer than 30,000. The original Macs OS 9 and lower were vulnerable to about 47 known viruses (with about 140 known variants) when the Mac's installed base was smaller. Yet today, the 25,000,000 OS X Macs have, at last count, zero viruses.
- dwight0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4if you prefer mac, click thumbs up, if you prefer windows, click thumbs down.
- scorwitz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And by the same token, there's still no one, except the cultish Tom Cruise, Scientology-like minded folks out there who want a mac either.
By the way, I thought I'd bend a little to the mac side a while ago by getting an ipod. Now I have bunch of worthless itunes and hunk of metal that won't play a single one of them. What am I supposed to do with all my aac files now? - fillemvs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3if everybody could just please click on "inaccurate" in the problem drop down box
- butterfi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5This guy has a somewhat dubious reputation (as mentioned above)... I'd be wary of any contest or promotion this guy is involved with, but thats just my opinion.
- dwight0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't understand, please correct me if I'm wrong but is he is looking for a "self-replicating, self-propagating virus" that "launches from computer to computer without conscious involvement by the user" but wiki says
"The main difference between a computer virus and a worm is that a virus cannot propagate by itself whereas worms can. A worm uses a network to send copies of itself to other systems and it does so without any intervention.". A virus that behaves like a worm, isn't this an impossible challenge or am i reading something wrong? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It is another mac trickery tactic, so it is impossible, yes, unless you can modify the core of the os itself. It does not explain that in this article, they want you to think no virus can be written for the os, but i am sure by reading so far that moronic mac fan boys (and those paid by mac) that the digg subject will convince some idiot, which i am sure there will be.
- althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Their are daily reports from symantec of self propagating viruses, they just aren't all totally devastating so they don't recieve the same press coverage. Pretending security issues don't exist doesn't make them disappear. As a tech support staff I see on average 5 machines a day 7 days a week that all been infected, many by self propagating code.
- jlowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Of course, if you are considering switching to Mac because of security but are not happy with the idea of purchasing a new computer, you can always go to Linux. Will work with existing hardware and as long as you keep it up to date and do not use root as your main account, you have a very secure box.
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1hello. you appear to be a typical mac user. when presented with facts, you ignore them.
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Um, no...?
A true self propagating virus can LITERALLY infect the world in a few days. Remember his definition isn't just self propagating code, but the ability to do this without user intervention. But please, cite some, so I can at least laugh at how badly these worm writers suck. :-)
As far as I can remember, there have either been 3 or43 such programs for XP. Sasser, MyDoom, and Blaster, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing one. -
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