What is Digg?50 Comments
- FireAtWill, on 11/21/2007, -3/+49German Coastguard! German Coastguard! We're sinking! We're sinking!
Zis is the German Coastguard, what are you sinking about? - LiquidFusion, on 11/21/2007, -4/+31Now if only this could happen in the US...
- Ireland, on 11/21/2007, -5/+20Woot.
- doskir, on 11/21/2007, -1/+16a better analogy would be that youre buying a BMW and are only allowed to drive it on a german Autobahn but not an american freeway
- lukas88, on 11/21/2007, -3/+17No, what is asinine is coming up with completely misrepresenting analogies. Or maybe you are just really confused about what is going on.
The customers' rights (as well as the competing companies' rights) are at stake because this kind of contract is anti-competitive. On top of that, the iPhone was not designed specially for t-mobile, and it would work perfectly on other networks. Therefor, it is unreasonable that apple and tmobile force their customers to stay locked in to a phone service because a deal they made between themselves that benefits nobody but themselves. Apple is really the one to blame, they are doing this kind of thing all over the world it seems. - sirbeta, on 11/21/2007, -6/+16Because in some (smart) countries, locked phones are frowned upon, and so are extremely long contracts for such a common commodity like cell phone service. Good on Germany. Hopefully some day we can get this sort of thing happening in the states.
- inactive, on 11/21/2007, -0/+8I hate to break it to you guys, but the iPhone is not the only phone tied to a service provider. Vodaphone isn't provoking this issue because they love consumers. They're doing it so they don't lose their customers to T-Mobile.
- skeen07, on 11/21/2007, -5/+12No, it isn't. My BlackBerry costs as much as the iPhone, and doesn't have anywhere near the same functionality. And to call the iPhone a piece of crap is just ignorant - it rocks, it's a hard thing to escape.
- P5ycHo, on 11/21/2007, -2/+9The fact that they know it's locked doesn't mean that it is allowed by law to sell vendor-locked in phones.
- FireAtWill, on 11/21/2007, -3/+8Or maybe Apple should adhere to the laws of the markets that it "wishes" to enter.
- ElephantHunter, on 11/21/2007, -5/+10Bundling a service provider with a phone is akin to bundling an ISP with a computer. Apple's anti-competitive behavior hurts consumers. I praise Germany's ruling in this case.
- Animik, on 11/21/2007, -1/+6zie germans are coming
- RoamShell, on 11/21/2007, -10/+14Dugg for:
1. Germans are cool
2. Yay competition.
3. Apple being forced to be a little less 1984 (how ironic). - chokeaduck, on 11/21/2007, -0/+4The one talk radio guy brought this up today or yesterday and made a good point. Contracts are in part used to subsidize to repay the phone which you were sold at a discount. If you pay for the product in full (there are no subsidies for the Iphone) why is a contract even required?
- aliguana, on 11/21/2007, -1/+4dugg for great justice. I love Europe.
- diggduggjoe, on 11/21/2007, -3/+6Free enterprise is to harsh for most people. I do not know what people find offensive with s 2 year contract for a reduced price on the hardware. I, too, avoid contracts. However, I find unlocked phones and use them with my carrier. I do not sit around whining that we must have our bully of a government work over a company until we get the deal we like. If, a company is not selling you what you want, do not buy it. The iPhone is not a necessity. It is one of many devices which can be used as a phone and music player. Nobody has a "right" to one.
- 12340987, on 11/21/2007, -4/+7maybe antitrust laws exist for a reason.
- OptimismPrime, on 11/21/2007, -0/+3Hooray for Germany.
I don't know how much iPhone plans in the US cost, but there are only 3 offered by T-Mobile here in germany
They're as follows:
49 EUR (72.4562 USD) including 100 Minutes of Talktime, 40 textmessages and 200 MB Traffic via EDGE
69 EUR (102.030 USD) including 200 Minutes of Talktime, 150 textmessages and 1 GB Traffic via EDGE
89 EUR (131.604 USD) including 1.000 Minutes of Talktime, 300 textmessages and 5 GB Traffic via EDGE
If you multiply that by 24 for the duration of the 2 year contract in addition to the iPhones price of 399 EUR (590.001 USD) and the 25 EUR (36.9674 USD) activation fee you get to pay from 1600 EUR (2365.91 USD) for the 49 EUR plan to a whooping 2564 EUR (3791.38 USD) for the 89 EUR plan. And that's the BARE MINIMUM COST provided you don't go over your amount of free textmessages or minutes of talktime a month.
On top of that, if you meet your quota on EDGE Traffic (from lets say.....surfing the net or using the Mobile iTunes Music Store) your EDGE Datarate will be throttled to 64 kbit/s down and 19 kbit/s up.
Sure, if you happen to be in range of one of T-Mobiles 8.000 WLAN Hotspots 'NATIONWIDE' you don't use any of your EDGE traffic, and the speed far exceeds even unthrottled EDGE, but what are the chances of that happening.
So this verdict ultimately means 1 of 2 things. Either the iPhone will be affordable for a lot more Apple- / Gadgetenthusiasts, not just businessmen, or Apple will pull it off the market because they can't force people
to go with the carrier they have a contract with giving them a hefty share of subscribers fees.
Personally i really hope for the former because i'd like to use it with my current O2 plan, but fear it'll be the later.
(EUR => USD exchangerates according to the currency calculator on x-rates.com at the time of this post) - MrTulip, on 11/21/2007, -1/+4"This has nothing to do with comsumer's rights"
oh, it has everything to do with consumer's rights. at least in europe the common view on that subject is that it is anti-competitive or "wettbewerbsverzerrend" (the awful german language... i'm glad it was shoved down my throat with my mother's milk (mmh, that sounds wrong somehow)) to bind the customer so strictly to a certain monopolistic contract for such a long time when all he wants is a certain piece of hardware.
imagine buying an nvidia graphics card and then being able only to play games by companies which have some deal with nvidia (or microsoft allowing only games to be played that have their 'games for windows' certificate -which costs ms several thousand dollars even now when it's just a marketing gag)
tulip. - chitoiup, on 11/21/2007, -0/+3Gottta love Germany! They're not afraid of big businesses. Don't like T-Mobile, kein Problem. Over here it goes more along the lines of "Don't like At&T? Well, they and their bosses kind of own everything, so..."
- hexydes, on 11/21/2007, -1/+4Uhm, we let these companies use "our" open spectrum. This is a give-and-take relationship, where we allow these carriers access to the spectrum, and they sell us a service for the spectrum.
As of late, these companies have been taking more than they have been giving, in that relationship. What you're seeing now is people starting to get upset about that. - heavygravity, on 11/21/2007, -0/+3That is a hilarious commercial, I laughed many times at it :) Here is a youtube link to the video : http://youtube.com/watch?v=FrYRY6kx550
- OptimismPrime, on 11/21/2007, -0/+2OK, thought i gave a little update here.
German Mac Newssites today started reporting that unlocked iPhones will still be exclusively sold thorugh T-Mobile stores, but otherweise in no way be tied to the carrier and can be readily used with any sim card inserted into them
Unlocked iPhones will have a pricepoint of 999 EUR (1477.22 USD) wich seems a lot more affordable than the former 1600 EUR (2365.91 USD) although still not beeing cheap. - RoamShell, on 11/21/2007, -2/+4What? It's not like Apple provided the service, T-Mobile did.
- pu-z, on 11/21/2007, -0/+2They do that in Norway. You get a computer for 1/3 off if you commit to two years of a certain ISP. It is ALWAYS a bad deal.
- Archimboldo, on 11/21/2007, -1/+3If T-mobile were a monopoly, I could understand this as an anti-trust measure, but they're not. If memory serves, I have seen other products "exclusively sold" through some outlet. There are other exclusive deals in business history that were not monopolistic. Consumers truly have a choice here.
- monkeyboy7706, on 11/21/2007, -0/+2Yes but usually it is still possible to get the phone on any network. I could get the new nokia with a choice of it being locked to T-mobile, O2, Orange, Vodaphone etc. the iPhone in the UK I can only get locked to O2 add to that I can only buy it from O2 or Carphone Warehouse.
Luckily being in Europe it is perfectly legal for me to buy the phone from Germany (or France) where it is unlocked and use it in the UK. - aliguana, on 11/21/2007, -0/+2well, the same as your broadband - you own the computer, the router, but you still need a contract with XX service provider, as they provide the service.
For me, the issue isn't about paying £300 for an iPhone. The issue is about paying £300 for a phone, thereby owning it, and not being able to use it on any network I damn well choose. You pay top dollar for the latest Nokia, you can use it where you want. Same with any other phone manufacturer, except Apple. - mrBitch, on 11/21/2007, -0/+2This actually means more iPhones will be sold in Germany - and for Apple, that's great news.
And to answer " but that means Apple will get less money for selling iPhones out of contract " - then you haven't been reading the articles. If you buy an iPhone without a contract, you will have to pay a lot more for the iPhone to compensate for the missing monthly contract fees that would have gone to Apple. - TBagwell, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1cart... horse... you must be confused
- DaffyDuck, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1zybch the troll is back with a new, and fitting, nickname.
- SanjayM, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1We're sinking from all the unlocked iPhones aboard destined for exportation!
- mrBitch, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1This actually means more iPhones will be sold in Germany - and for Apple, that's great news.
And to answer " but that means Apple will get less money for selling iPhones out of contract " - then you haven't been reading the articles. If you buy an iPhone without a contract, you will have to pay a lot more for the iPhone to compensate for the missing monthly contract fees that would have gone to Apple. - inactive, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1Not if Steve Jobs says they don't.
- MaxPayne3476, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1aliguana.... uhhh what? Broadband internet is not subsidized? I'm so confused.
You own the computer... and you may by a router if you wish - but neither of those have to do with the broadband service your receiving. In this case, the cost of the phone is affected by the service plan you by.
And the issue is that you pay ONLY $300 (I switched currencies, much easier) because the phone is subsidized. I could see Apple being required to release the iPhone unlocked for a higher price, just as any other unlocked phone is - but if the phones cost is subsizded by the service plan, then what's the issue?
Really, here it's about region and culture. Unlocked phones in Europe are as common as ***** and beer. In the US, you're definitely more tied to your carrier - though when my carrier is Verizon, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I love you Verizon... just lower your *****' data costs! - WhereAmI, on 11/21/2007, -2/+3Its not over priced anymore but still doesn't have 3G. When that comes around it will probably be the best smartphone for the money.
- sachis, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1It's on sale from today!!
It costs €999 without SIM lock!!
F**K - daizaru, on 11/21/2007, -2/+2Exclusivity as to where you purchase an item and to what service you are locked into using for however long you use a product are ultimately 2 different things. Usually once you buy an exclusive item, you own it and you can do what you wish. An Iphone you only really fully own as long as you keep paying for service. Basically you have to keep paying Apple for full use of the phone. I won't profess to be an expert on Antitrust laws, but I do know companies have been called out for a lot less.
- Paulish, on 11/21/2007, -12/+12Why cant apple sell its products as it wishes? If that means buying a contract with it is necessary, who the heck do you think you are forcing them to sell the product as you wish? If you don't like their business practice don't buy it, and support competition with better business practices. But if you REALLY want that iPhone just buy it with the contract and unlock it, which is perfectly fine, as it is YOUR property now and apple can buzz off with their lawsuits.
- bluepdx, on 11/21/2007, -0/+0Maybe antitrust laws don't normally target players (Apple) who have zero market share, in competitive environments.
- Fuchs, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0There are other laws against anti-competitive practices in Germany than simple Monopoly issues. In fact the consumer does not have as good a choice as he could have without bundling the service provider contract with the hardware. A consumer has to be able to choose which kind of phone he likes best and which service provider he want independently of each other. Otherwise the number of possible choices would be reduces for no good reason.
- ThirdPrize, on 11/21/2007, -1/+1Guess they won't be selling it in Germany then.
- inactive, on 11/21/2007, -0/+0Won't they sell more iPhones when it is unlocked anyway? More iPhones more money...
- koelly, on 11/21/2007, -0/+0Ok. Now they are selling it unlocked without contract for 999,-€ (1 464.33 $)
- konartis, on 11/21/2007, -0/+0i see a comment like this every time a story about anything related to Germany is posted.
predictable, but funny nonetheless. :) - inactive, on 11/21/2007, -4/+3MacFags everywhere weep a single tear onto their mock-turtleneck.
- mhummel, on 11/21/2007, -2/+0For you Tommy, ze monopoly is over!
- banmaster, on 11/21/2007, -12/+6Ha! Suck it down Apple!
- residualflash, on 11/21/2007, -24/+9iphone's an over-priced piece of crap anyways
- zunigbab, on 11/21/2007, -29/+8This is asinine and clearly demonstrates the kind of over-involvement by government in an individuals' life one can expect from Europe. Maybe BMW should sue Daimler because Daimler doesn't offer their customers enough BMW add-ons for their Mercedes. Vodafone is throwing a tantrum because they didn't get the deal with Apple. This has nothing to do with comsumer's rights unless T-Mobile is falsely representing the contract you sign. I'm also sure that everyone buying one of these phones knows damn well it's locked to T-Mobile's network when they buy it.
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