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- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+55"RECORD LABELS, set us free!"
I believe this will happen in only one way - hitting the record companies where it counts: in the wallet. Stop buying music online, stop buying music on CD. I'm not saying we should all start pirating. Just stop buying music. Simple, really.
We'll see how they feel about DRM after a month or two of bone-dry sales... - dmbdmb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+50Isn't it interesting that in the RIAA responses not once do they mention what the customer wants? Its all about what the record parasites want.
- goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+42Seriously. How about the quote from the RIAA shill: "Jobs could have just as easily lectured the software industry, which includes Apple, for its unwillingness to pursue an industrywide DRM standard or work to make media players recognize and not play pirated songs."
Wouldn't that be great? You go to play a song and a message pops up "Sorry. Don't steal music!". Or you go to burn a CD and a message pops up "Sorry. Don't steal music!". Or your girlfriend goes to play the Valentine's Day CD you made for her and a message pops up "Sorry. Don't steal music!".
There's a reason those kinds of products don't penetrate the market - because they suck and nobody wants them! - JacksonEMG, on 10/12/2007, -6/+38Also the ripping and re-encoding is bound to lose some quality.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+39Apple tells you how to get around the DRM. You can burn the downloaded songs a limited amount of times. Well, burn the downloaded music and rip it back to your computer. And there you have it: DRM free music!
- EasyEve, on 10/12/2007, -21/+48I personally can't stand I-Tunes because the number of times you can replicate a PURCHASED song on another device/terminal is limited.
To me, this is not as good as a CD, and to Jobs, it is probably an obstacle to attracting more I-Tunes sales. The thing I didn't realize is that this restriction on replication came from the record label- instead I thought it was set like that by I-Tunes.
In this case, I redeem you I-Tunes- RECORD LABELS, set us free! - offspring06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18How about the middle man disappears altogether. In this day and age the RIAA and the MPAA are not needed anymore.
- MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20The ipod doesn't enforce the DRM. I have my 60 gig fully loaded without a single DRM'ed song on it.
- 35263526, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16And the RIAA'll be more than happy to take a cut out of any licensing fees, I'm sure.
DRM isn't anti-piracy. It's there to force you to pay the music industry again and again for each platform you listen to your songs on. - ArnoldTPants, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22Lyph4
You actually pay money for a lossy compression of a lossy file? The jokes on you. - meltingrobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@Quix
Or buy indie lable music that isn't affiliated with the big four and RIAA. If you don't know what is okay or not, see this site: http://riaaradar.com/ - weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14The idea of not spending money on music entirely will not help the cause of getting the Big Four labels to abandon DRM. They will point to a collapse of overall sales (or even a slump) as proof of piracy's much-exaggerated shadowy hand on sales. Instead of boycotting music purchases, spend your money on DRM-free music like eMusic, Beatport and the like. As the percentage of music sold as non-DRMed files increases, pressure on the labels to adopt this position will then increase.
- niczar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15DRM *is not* an anti-piracy system. If it is, it's done absolutely nothing to prevent piracy. Therefore it's not.
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14@ foxhaze
You sir, are the reason DRM was invented. I'm always suprised to see people like you getting diggs in anti-DRM threads. It's like burglars being applauded for making people put bars on their windows. - redcard, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20This (ripping,and re-encoding) method is illegal.
It is illegal under the DMCA as a "circumvention technology."
I'd like a LEGAL way to listen to the music I purchased, not one that allows the RIAA to come after me for criminal liability. - redington, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I agree - support eMusic or some of the DRM-free alternatives. It's got to eat the RIAA's goat that the #2 seller of digital downloads is from non-RIAA artists/labels (or at least not towing the party line) selling at the most reasonable price.
- avg_bear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"not even the ISPs can identify what's being exchanged."
As they shouldn't. - MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I'm all for an industry wide standard. Then once it is broken for one it is broken for all just like it was for DVD.
- niczar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11They're really retarded, their stuff shows up on torrent sites whether they do DRM or not.
- eighttracks, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12If you think that buying a CD or song from iTunes is supporting a band, then you haven't looked at the breakdown of how much of this money goes to the artists. Go to their concerts, join their fan clubs, buy stuff from their web site. That's the only real way that the artist sees any cash from the fans.
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Jobs could have just as easily lectured the software industry, which includes Apple, for its unwillingness to pursue an industrywide DRM standard or work to make media players recognize and not play pirated songs."
why would you need EVERYTHING to have DRM. isn't that just the same as having no DRM? if it all works together why do you need it?... oh wait "not play pirated songs.". so that would mean it would only play DRM music. I'm sure people will just ***** love that. bye bye podcasts, independent artists etc etc - michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I wonder why Jobs went public with this?
he must be getting tired of the execs in the music industry and is trying to take a populus approach.
I can;t wait for the day when bands release straight onto iTunes.
No contracts, no signing bonus, just 50% of sales of their music.
F the RIAA. they rip off music consumers and musicians. - rolosworld, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"Stop buying music online, stop buying music on CD. I'm not saying we should all start pirating. Just stop buying music. Simple, really."
I have been doing it for a long time now... since I first heard about RIAA suing people. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7How about the fact that DRM has NOTHING what so ever to do with piracy, and EVERYTHING to do with controlling consumers and essentially *forcing* them to buy the same content over and over again? That's where the RIAA really start to smell a little funky.
Think about it. When you download music, do you download personally it from a friend who bought the CD and ripped the songs to his computer himself (which, by the way, is absolutely legal in most countries. Copying for personal/private use is not evil)? Or do you download it off some random bittorrent tracker/DC hub/kazaa-lite software?
Putting DRM on every single CD won't help jack *****. If one, single person manages to copy the songs, everybody will get a copy. Just because YOUR CD has DRM on it doesn't mean you can't possibly download the songs from somewhere else. It's all nonsense. The absolutely, positively, exclusively ONLY reason DRM even exists, is for record labels to make more money selling the same content two, three or ten times to the same person. Like the song? Buy the CD. Want the song as a ringtone? Buy that separate. Want to listen to it anywhere other than your living room? Buy another "legal" copy. Buy, buy, buy.
THIS is what people should be discussing. Don't talk about how bad DRM is, we all know that. Start talking about the fact that it doesn't even work, not even in theory. Make it known that enforcing DRM has nothing to do with piracy, and maybe we can start coming up with some actually productive ideas. Making DRM equate to anti-piracy is exactly what the RIAA wants, because it has a much more positive tone to it than forcing customers to pay more for the same content. - kravex, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Hit the nail on the head.
- NinjaBoy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I'm for either apple opening up or the RIAA backing off. If just one of those things happens id be happy. Though Id really like a DRM solution that I can use in Linux. Iv gone back to pirating, just so i can use the music I BOUGHT, in the operating system I CHOOSE.
- arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Seconded.
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"I personally can't stand I-Tunes because the number of times you can replicate a PURCHASED song on another device/terminal is limited."
That's not actually true. You can only have 5 computers authorized at a time, but you can deauthorize a computer at any time and then authorize another one. So really, you can replicate on as many computers as you like, but never more then 5 at a time. I suppose it you frequently use more then 5 computers, that could be a problem, but it isn't for most people. - themicah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@catalysis
I don't think that's entirely true, although Apple definitely benefits from keeping the music sales, player sales and jukebox software "in the family" (Jobs admitted as much in his note.) You can't dispute the fact that the iTunes store was/is the industry leader in online music distribution. They got there because of price, selection and ease of use. Without the DRM and the guarantee that Apple would and could maintain it, as Jobs also stated in his letter, the record labels would not have gotten on board. The price and the selection would not have been delivered. There would have been no online music distribution for the *masses*.
And enough with all that indie-online hooey. I buy most of my music at shows and at indie shops - there's no comparison for people who actually *like* music and not just the idea of *collecting* music like Magic cards or some dumbass thing. Sorry, but some kid's experiment with ProTools does not equal a serious dedication to the music that would influence me to shell out cash. Who cares if it's not DRM'd if it's not worth listening to in the first place?
Selfish ***** FTW - meepus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Legal is not Right. Illegal is not Wrong. Law is not Justice.
- thepromise, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7From Article: "(Music labels) are very nervous about distributing content that is unprotected. They think that everybody will share music, and there's evidence that a lot of people will."
Music labels must not be THAT nervous... They've been distributing uprotected CD's for years. - dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The market is booming with innovation thanks to Apple!
I just bought an Archos 404. I LOVE IT. Way better then the iPod Video. It supports everything, DVIX, XVID, OGG, etc.
It has a Mic (omg! what a twist!) and supports a DVR addon for hooking up to your TV....
There are plenty of choices. I was just at CES 2007, the world is full of new ideas. - meshman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9One could always not buy an iPod and do business with music distributors that don't use restrictive technologies like DRM. If people don't like the restrictions, why are they buying products that enforce them? You have a choice you know.
- biggrz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Maybe I'm missing something, but why would the RIAA want Apple to allow their music to play on other devices if the RIAA is just going to sue us for copying them there.... OH I GET IT!!
- dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5RE: ninjaboy
check out eMusic.com - Zero_Cool, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@doctorcaligari
That's not true. I don't remember were it is but there is defiantly an option to deauthorize a single machine. I've used it. - DanielNielsen, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Some of us likes to support the artists you retard.
- Huitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Hamachi has been doing this for a couple years now - Its essentially a secure VPN where upon you can employ the built in file sharing of the operating system.
- arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Do you own Gigatribe? I think you're pushing that on every forum about digital music.
- pterodactyl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I would like a citation/link to the RIAA fires back comment... i can't find one online! To this point the RIAA's "response" seems like a rumor.
- redcard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What security nightmare?
Apple has released a lot of code out there that involves security. Why are they concerned , suddenly, about Fairplay?
Oh. Right. Because it's something that would open the market up. - pterodactyl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4you hit it on the nail. to break it down even simplier:
more security equals less interoperability equals less sales.
less/no security equals more interoperablility equals more sales. - redcard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The RIAA requires it for music under THEIR control. They cannot require it for the indie labels that are outside their contractual control that get on iTunes through CDBaby or other means.
You really don't get it. Apple doesn't just negotiate with the RIAA . They work with a bunch of distributors as well. When a distributor signs a contract with Apple, they are told , BY APPLE, that the use of DRM is mandatory. The RIAA never gets involved in these conversations whatsoever. We're not talking about companies that the RIAA represents, but ones that they DO NOT. - CapnDeviance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"We'll see how they feel about DRM after a month or two of bone-dry sales..."
They'll probably react the same way they do when sales are down by just the tiniest bit: blame piracy. That's why we need DRM, you see. Ugh. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think the RIAA could have appeared more clueless. DRM doesn't work cause as Job's pointed out they still sell DRM free CDs (Sony pretty much soured the market for CD DRM) and in most cases allow DRMed tracks to be burned to unprotected CD. According to Big Champaign, a company that tracks P2P, it takes an average of only 125 seconds for an iTunes exclusives to appear on P2P after they're released. I glad to see that eMusic was mention as a counter to Bainwols assertion that DRM is necessary for the subscription model to work. I would point eMusic is the number 2 music service behind iTunes. They beat out other subscription services like Napster despite not having have music from the Big Four and the tracks being DRM free. Clearly the reality is much different from the picture the RIAA paints.
- super_spyder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ systemlayers
That is because itunes is built on quicktime, and can not function without it. its like complaining that paint.net requires .net the two (itunes/paint.net) require the the others to function. - SystemsGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Redcard -
I understand what you are saying - and I'm not a supporter of DRM in any way, shape, or form. I don't doubt that there is music that is available from alternative - legal - sources without DRM that is also sold via ITMS with DRM. I suspect that Apple is either required to sell everything with DRM under the terms of their contract with the Big 4, or simple chose it as the easiest way to get "non-big 4" music into the store. - jmas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I've never commented on here before, but I feel I have to on this.
How does the stance of the RIAA make any sense, considering they represent the record labels? The record labels have made it clear that any breaks of the DRM must be repaired within a given short time frame. Apple has stated (and makes perfect sense) that the more parties who have the DRM code, the more likely it is to be leaked, and such, broken. How can the record labels desire a tight squeeze on DRM secrets and a global DRM? It's virtually impossible. - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The Riaa understands, what the riaa wants is the tech businesses to build a universal drm that's compatible with all system.
This will never happen. What the Tech companies want is not to be burdened with the DRM, well kind of..
There are using DRM to protect there business model from competitors.
The Zune is a perfect example. Not only does it not work with Itunes it does not work with it's own previous DRM (play for sure).
So all this jaw jacking is bull. A whole not of noise signifying nothing. You want your music DRM free download it from P2P. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I pirate music because it's the only way for me to hear what it sounds like *before* I buy it. What I listen to, there are no radio stations for. They don't play on MTV. They don't get demoed in record stores. How would I ever discover new music if I don't have a chance to listen to it?
Yes, I pirate music. I pirate it, so that I have a chance to know what to buy. Supporting the artists is an important thing, so support the artists that run their own labels and sell their own merchandise. Buy your albums directly from the artists themselves, and simply cut out the middle man. -
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