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- bbrosemer, on 10/12/2007, -10/+159In the "real world" when kids get to college they might have a mac, they might have a PC, but they all have Microsoft Office and it is typically an illegal copy...
- bjtitus, on 10/12/2007, -11/+75They probably don't have Intel macs.....
Keep in mind they've had these computers for awhile. - Xageroth, on 10/12/2007, -44/+105As a hardcore Windows user, 13 years and counting, I completely disagree with this.
The future doesn't belong to Microsoft. The last 5 to 7 years, it's botched IE release, it's carbon copy Vista, and a million other painfully obvious things have proven to me Microsofts days are numbered. It's a problem of philosophy, theirs has already been replaced, and they refuse to adopt. - JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -9/+49@kuzotz
The hardware is NOT cheap. Apple is not as willing to give bulk discounts as HP and Dell are, and they charge more per unit for the Macs. School districts don't build PCs, they buy low-end in bulk from OEMs, and you'd be surprised how cheap they get them. Apple USED to offer great school discounts and bulk discounts, but every since they moved away from the "colored iMacs", they just don't do it anymore.
In fact, you're entire comment seems to look like you're talking about home users. We're not. FOR SCHOOLS Macs are no longer worth it. Not only do they cost more (especially if you put Windows on them), but the remote admin tools that 90% of school districts in America use today (stuff like Novell's products) aren't avaliable for Mac OS X, so they would NEED to put Windows on those Macs, driving the costs through the roof. - brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+42I always wondered why we were using Apple IIe/GSes in school when the rest of the world was using Windows 3.1/Dos 6.22
- CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -14/+53Believe it or not, most of the world does use windows. The stories you hear on digg abour random cities in norway using linux and blog editors switching to mac aren't what's happening all over.
It's stupid to call and harass this man over his decision. It's his job, not yours. Just because you use a mac doesn't mean everyone else has to. If they were switching to mac, everyone here would be happy. Fanboys.
I'm glad that my schools had windows. I can't recall a place where i've been forced to use a mac... ever. Windows, though.. - jackmaninov, on 10/12/2007, -16/+52Kids have the rest of their lives to use Windows PCs. Isn't it likely that they probably have a PC at home?
Using Macs at school will give students an opportunity to have a more "rounded" computer learning experience, which one would think would improve computer literacy overall. - Dragular, on 10/12/2007, -9/+38Ah yes. Because as we all know the only difference between Mac OS and Windows is that more people have Windows. Absolutely no other difference.
- Synchro, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29Since when did schools prepare students for the "real world"? Sad to say but it is true. when I graduated high school, i knew I wasn't ready.
- kevisazombie, on 10/12/2007, -10/+25Maybe all those super cool ads showing how macs are trendy, hip, toys. Compared to the boring buissiness machine PCs is starting to have the desired effect.
- gregpc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Like MS Office for the Mac?
- gregpc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Since most "real world" jobs involve writing, calculating, presenting, etc., the choice of OS really doesn't matter at this point. I'm a VP at a PR firm and my company provides me with a very generic HP laptop. I bring my personal MacBook Pro into the office every day and have both on my desk. I have yet to find a reason why I NEED to use the Windows machine to do my job and manage just fine.
- DouglasScott, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18I agree. PCs are everywhere. But the PCs in public schools tend to be busted down crap. Nobody learns a damn thing with them.
I've set up mac labs that have gone for three years with no maintenance at all. They are still running all day every day. - kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -16/+29@JeffH
A lot of people here don't even bother going through that process you just said.
The hardware is cheap.
a 120gig harddrive can range between 50-72 dollars. A motherboard can range between 150-700 dollars. A graphics card is expensive, but if oyu want basic use of a PC then just get a motherboard with the video card, and cound card onboard, and you can get an onboard network adapter. The onboard motherboards tend to be the cheapest. You can get a DVD writer for a resonable price. Drivers are basicly free.
Now you can get linux(for free) or you can buy windows or download a pirated copy of windows(which is what most people do).
Macs you buy their stuff at their price, and you don't complain when in a year it gets outdated, and you can't simply remove a component of the hardware, and replace it with a newer model. - jonahan52, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15And how is this the Mac's fault? Ignorant IT departments suck.
- slamm6, on 10/12/2007, -32/+45Sorry, this is a non sequitur, but I wanted to post as high up as possible:
Man, did anybody read all the macfanboy responses ? They were flippin' out ! I've never seen such passion over a little silicon and plastic. Amazing ! - tafdc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I, for one applaud his move.
After all, with Microsoft's recently released Windows 95, there's no reason to keep those Mac II's and SE's around. Now he can standardize on IBM PC AT's and experiment with their new PS/2 machines!
I mean, really, Mac's are soooooo 80's.
It's heartening to have one of our educators so in touch with the pulse of modern technology! - david76, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15@Xageroth
"The future doesn't belong to Microsoft"
I believe the vast majority of businesses, both large and small, would disagree. Companies expect you to know the Office Suite. When you send a document electronically, it's either in Word, Excel or PowerPoint. Just because MS "botched IE" and you don't like Vista doesn't mean MS products are going away any time soon. There is a HUGE range of MS products beyond browsers and desktop OSs. Let's name a few...
SharePoint Server, SQL Server, Exchange Server, BizTalk, Commerce Server, Dynamics, etc. - tidu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10So will there be any 300 mac auctions with stampedes and trampled baby strollers?
- crypticgeek, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17@skyshock
Exactly!
Mac fan boys, when you can push out group policy from a OS X Domain Controller you can go ahead and say Macs are perfect for schools. It just makes more sense to use commodity PC hardware and windows in a setting like that. The hardware is CHEAP and readily available to make repairs on site. And it's easy to manage and change your policy in a Windows domain. You just can't do that with Macs. They aren't set up for that. Maybe for a couple machines in a library. But not for entire school district. Whether you like it or not, Apple just doesn't understand (or care about) the school district / corporate IT market at all. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17Has anyone stopped and thought maybe this guy was having problems with students using them for non-school related stuff like downloading copywritten material from Bit Torrent networks and generally loading them up w/ junk? Maybe he wants to set up an Active Directory domain and have more granular control over each workstation from an easily manageable central location - something that Apple still hasn't quite managed to offer yet. Open Directory? Pffftt... don't make me laugh.
Macs aren't the answer to every scenario you know. I get the feeling we're not getting the whole story from this article. - vashmyvindows, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"The mac OS keeps the users in a warm fuzzy pink garden, isolated from the actual computer to such a degree that they kids aren't actually learning anything."
Fuzzy pink garden, yes, but you can certainly get down in the dirt. Mac OS has a full-fledged unix terminal.
For the majority of my stay on Windows, I used alternate shells. I couldn't take being babied so much by Explorer. "You're not allowed to delete this folder, it is in use." "But it's empty! What is Xerox doing for me right now?!" - Dweller99, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Last 4 offices I worked in, not a PC in sight"
What industry do you work in? - Saiing, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14"most people use Microsoft programs in the real world."
And he's absolutely right. It might not be a popular opinion, but its an accurate one. Schools have a responsibility to provide the broadest education on a limited budget which will prepare students for later life. Right now, students have a 90%+ chance of working on a Microsoft powered machine, compared to a single digit percentage for the Mac.
You might not like it, but don't criticize him for doing what he thinks is best for the students just because you're an Apple fanboy. - D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I've worked with school computers and here is the basic fact...
Kids do stupid things to computers like:
-shove pencils in the drives
-put magnets on the screens
-screw around with the software because "they know what they are doing"
From a simply economic standpoint it's better to be able to fix computers on campus and have a ready supply of replacement parts, which simply isn't available on a mac computer... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Whatever, they still can't read above a fifth-grade level.
- geckofiend, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Funny, I'm using my mac with a 5 button mouse at the moment...
- Winten, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Dual boot costs the schools more money though (Windows), and I'm pretty sure these were older machines (PPC) anyway
- inactive, on 12/26/2008, -6/+14@macewan
If you call and harass this man, you'll just prove how immature you and your kind is :). Fanboys are crying because some school district in the Midwest decides to get rid of their antiquated mac network and replace it with something that actually will be useful for students. - alexonix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8landscaping?
- gregpc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I started bringing the Mac in because I like to keep my work and personal content separate - music, email, blogging etc. I do use the HP throughout the day - to access the server (which I could do on the Mac, but that would defeat the idea of segregation), get my work email (which I could also do online) and edit documents that are sent to me. I prefer to use the Mac because it is faster, more flexible and frankly more enjoyable. As for support, I do that myself on both platforms and have done for many years.
- Brutusfly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Aren't students who use OS X better prepared for whatever Microsoft comes out with in 5 years?
- SaintStryfe, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Every time you digg me, another crap box is replaced with an Intel Mac...
See how lame that sounds, kiantech? Jees. Some people don't actually READ what they type before they post, do they? - bandomac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I am a teacher, and I can tell you that the most important thing about computers is what the students can and want to do on them. In very few instances are teachers using computers to teach the students about computers. There is a reason that the high school students want to keep the Macs. They are enjoyable to use, and the tools that come with the Macs are included at no additional cost. In most instances, the included software is better than what the school would have to buy for the PCs. Not that the school would buy the software in the first place.
In the typing and word processing labs, the school should get the cheapest PCs available, and lock them down. If you are teaching drafting, the computers need to be Windows compatible if you want to use AutoCAD.
If you want the students to be creative, and use software to explore and create, get them Macs.
A heterogeneous computer environment will give kids access to many levels of technology, and will best suit their needs for learning. I can guarantee that the technology director for this district cares nothing for the students, and is simply being lead around by his bias and inexperience with multiple platforms.
As for those talking about the real world, the kids have no problem switching between the PC, the Mac, and Linux. If you do, the world needs more janitors. - jonohull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"The combination of Windows plus open source software, he said, will prevent students from downloading music and movies to the computers."
I'm not so sure about that... - profJohn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Ok, this is entirely ludicrous. The core competencies and computer literacy a student ought acquire in early and secondary education can just as easily be achieved on a Mac as it can on a Windows-based machine (or Linux computer for that matter). The majority of time shouldn't be spent on learning obscure OS material anyway, and the basic lessons learned on either operating system can be applied easily enough to other modern OSs. Moreover, it's not as if Microsoft WIndows is itself a static OS to learn: the Windows students learn about now will have changed quite a bit by the time they enter the workforce.
The ideal situation would be for students to learn to get work done in multiple operating environments. The real world skill they need isn't "how to use MS Windows" -- it's how to quickly learn and use new, different, and changing operating systems. - Onetrack, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11If 98% of the world drove a yugo, it still wouldn't be a good car.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This reminds me of my time in school. We learned WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 because they were the market leaders -- by the time I got a real job Microsoft Word/Excel were the leaders. The best thing they could do for these kids is to teach them Linux, Windows and OSX so the kids realize that there's no such thing as one universal OS. Incidentally, the Mac is the best platform for this as it can tri-boot all 3 operating systems.
- NakedSnake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@ Geckofiend:
Kudos for joining the rest of us. - fitchmicah, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11he's right, we need to embrace the desktop monopoly! everyone's doing it!
- sremick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I love how someone will call another person a "moron" then proceed in their rant to misspell approximately every third word.
- tafdc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9By the way, have you tried this new gizmo from Sony called the Walkman.
You can take your music with you whereever you go! It's fabulous! - gregpc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Can't quite agree with the assessment that the Mac is for play. Music, Flickr - OK, so some of that is for fun; IM, blogging, posting to various sites - that's work (for which I am eternally glad). I've also used it to record goofy youtube videos (work), do video conferences (work), create playlists and burn CDs (work). The reality is that most people do some of both in the office. I'm simply trying to keep the two slightly apart - which works out better for everyone.
- tdowling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You know what would be fun? Let's all share our personal experiences with Windows/OS X and how each one always/never crashes! I'm sure that eventually the other side will fully understand the error of their choices.
- miles32, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Yeah I setup a mac lab of 30 computers using 2 5th graders as help within an hour. All I needed were monkies at keyboards
- ulyssesyt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5dude, i've been using a two-button mouse with my Macs since 1997. my mac uses USB and Firewire--just like PCs. for several years. non-proprietary.
my Mac uses the same internal hardware as a PC--same hard drives, optical drives, cables, etc.
next! - bdude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5On behalf of the other 5% of the world who use macs, I would like to say I am outraged I use inappropriate technology.
- Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Is that the same sort of argument as "Americans will have the rest of their lives to use miles and gallons, so let's make them use meters and liters in school"?
School is about practical skills and social interaction. It is intended to make you a productive member of society.
I'd much sooner have someone turn to Macintosh because they've used PCs for ages and felt like something new and fresh. Mac users because "that's just what they've always used" are just as stupid as bred-into-PC users, bred-into-Ford owners, and bred-into-soccer kids. Give people a baseline so they aren't hopeless in life, and let the creative and thoughtful folk transcend what they learned in school.
One depressing thing I realized over and over while completing my BSc Computer Science was the tragic lack of people who could change a screen saver or figure out why they couldn't log in to the domain. The OS-neutral curriculum in high school and the heavily Unix-biased University made these people hopeless in basic "real life" IT situations. - fitchmicah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5last forever?! they will try and make them last forever but let's face it, they will absolutely suck after 3 or 4 years because no one will give them more ram.
- Mudcrutch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Funny, I went back to macs at home because that's all we have at work at it is wonderful.
Some employers get it. Most don't. -
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