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228 Comments
- zhiryst, on 04/06/2009, -3/+166really? a newer model... is faster? than ever before? *****?!
- flammablewater, on 04/06/2009, -8/+47ok, so instead of comparing the Mac Pro to Phenom or Core i7 systems, lets compare it to AN ACTUAL WORKSTATION.
Dell vs. Apple
Same specs: Dual quad core Intel Xeon 2.26GHz 5520, 1TB HD, dual Gb Ethernet, DVD Burner
Dell: 4GB RAM, 256MB NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 295
Mac: 6GB, Radeon HD 4870 512MB
The Mac is 3599, the Dell is 3877, and they'd be the same price but the Dell only comes standard with single Gig-E and a DVD-Rom. It also has no sound card which is an extra 120 bucks. That is the market Apple is after, not your $900 POS gaming rig. Get over it. - borez, on 04/06/2009, -1/+35Oh man... my quad G5 is starting to look tired already. I guess it's time to re-mortgage the ***** apartment again.
- 666dorado, on 04/06/2009, -15/+47funny how 99% of mac haters have never owned one before (pre-2000 doesn't count). digg me down, but you know it's true.
- supersonicjim, on 04/06/2009, -3/+31Inconceivable!
- inactive, on 04/06/2009, -4/+30Mac is overpriced, blah blah - no it's not blah blah.
Every time an article like this comes out it's the same old argument from you bickering bitches. - flammablewater, on 04/06/2009, -2/+20that's been true since the Mac Pro debuted.
- sleepyness, on 04/06/2009, -7/+25A similarly spec'd out Dell workstation costs more..
- pilgrim3970, on 04/06/2009, -2/+18"I'm not a MS fanborg but I think Microsoft still kicks Apple in the OS."
Not a Mac fanboy but in response - not really. - blinktude, on 04/06/2009, -0/+15true. sounds impossible especially given that it uses the latest chip!
- flammablewater, on 04/06/2009, -6/+20Does the above machine include a Nehalem Xeon? No? then shut up.
- wh3873, on 04/06/2009, -2/+16This word you keep using, I don't think it means what you think it means.
- wem003, on 04/06/2009, -2/+15It took you 5 macs before you so eloquently figured this out?
"Apple and their overpriced ***** can eat a dick"
Pretty quick flash to bang time you're sporting there. - hongkongjapie, on 04/06/2009, -1/+13Finally someone saying something sensible!
But it's not so much that the Mac Pro is overpriced, it's that Apple doesn't really have a mid-range alternative (except the imac but that's not an option for many of us). Have really been thinking about buying the Mac Pro, but it's too much overkill and the 4870 would be a must, so I guess I'll have to live with windows and a less powerful system (but with a more powerful gpu). - michaelphw, on 04/06/2009, -1/+13I dunno about that, the i7 machines are very expensive.
Though PC prices will reduce far quicker. - Janv1er, on 04/06/2009, -3/+14Even faster that a speeding budget !
- mindsnare, on 04/06/2009, -2/+12Amen man, I hate it when they say that.
- DanielPhermous, on 04/06/2009, -5/+15The Mac Pro is one of the cheapest compared to an equivalent PC, usually coming out comfortably under the price of a similarly equipped behemoth from a competitor. Make no mistake, though, this is a high-end machine and out of the range of most computer users.
- hardeep1singh, on 04/06/2009, -5/+15Yeah, the emails would go at lightening speeds now.
- danielwsmithee, on 04/06/2009, -0/+10I love how gamers assume the only thing to do with a computer is play games.
- nicc, on 04/06/2009, -0/+9@ dlan4327:
I dont normally do this, but:
WHOOSH - AlyxVance, on 04/06/2009, -0/+9I'm sick of this 'fastest ever' crap. Stuff is always getting better
- grahamj1978, on 04/06/2009, -3/+12Really? What PC can I get that has the same features for less than $900? Because if there is one, I'd probably buy it.
- HandrasXMS, on 04/06/2009, -0/+9Nehalem video: http://vimeo.com/3944760
- borez, on 04/06/2009, -1/+10I do run the latest studio software though. I'm thinking 100's of tracks of audio + plug-ins + convolving reverbs + syncing to video + live track following + gigabytes of preloaded samples may just be a little bit more processor intensive than man running around a field shooting zombies or killing 3D hedgehogs in a sudo-urban landscape... to be honest.
- Ouze, on 04/06/2009, -3/+11Ah, jonahan52, I see what you did there. How clever. You took one of the highest cost builds for the Dell, and compared it to a base mac.
1.) You bought an optional downgrade from Vista x64 to XP x64, despite the fact Vista 64 would run substantially better on this machine. But hey, it added $50, right?
2.) People buying macs don't want to know details, so we don't know if the Mac Pro is using the E5520 or the L5520 processors. What's the difference (besides an extra $700 added onto the Dell)?
3.) You cannot build the Dell workstation with 6gb of DDR3 1066 ECC. You can either get 4 or 12, but no 6. To get 6, you'd have to move to DDR3 1333 ECC, which is faster (and more expensive). However, what you can do is select the 6gb which doesn't match the 1066 motherboard, not mention the large message that comes up saying this is an incompatible choice and POW, an extra $850 charge for a computer you can't even put an order in for!
4.) The Dell comes with a LSI 1068e, which is a non-RAID 8 port controller + SAS. The Mac Pro only has 4 and does not support SAS. To make this a fair comparison, you'd have the add the Mac Raid Card, which adds $700 to the Mac Pro. Unsurprisingly, you did not do this, because that wouldn't fit your bias as well.
5.) The graphics card on the Mac Pro is the "Geforce GT 120". Guess what - that's not a new chip. Nvidia redid it's naming scheme - the GT 120 uses the G96 GPU, or as it was formerly known - the 9500 GT. What's the difference? The 9500GT can be had for about $65 on Newegg.com. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ...
But by all means, let's pretend it's the same as Quadro FX the Dell comes with.
6.) Why did you upgrade to a 500gb hard drive on the Dell? Oh, I see. Because it was more expensive then the 750gb HDD, even though the 750gb HDD is closer to what the Mac comes with. With that ***** bias it makes more sense.
7.) The Dell comes with a 3 year on site warranty. The Mac Pro comes with 90 days of phone support and one year on parts. To make the Mac equivalent would require adding $250 to the Mac, so of course you didn't do it.
The real score: Dell $3710, Mac Pro $4248. - jonahan52, on 04/06/2009, -5/+13My System Details
Dell Precision T7500 Workstation
Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Bonus 64 -Windows XP Professional downgrade
Dual Quad Core Intel™ Xeon® Processors E5520 2.26GHz,8M L3,5.8GT/s,turbo
6GB, DDR3 RDIMM Memory, 1066MHz, ECC (3 DIMMS)
3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service
512MB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580, DUAL MON, 2 DP & 1 DVI
C1 All SATA drives, Non-RAID, 1 drive total configuration
Integrated LSI 1068e SAS/SATA 3.0Gb/s controller
500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™ and Roxio Creator™ Dell Ed
No Monitor
No Floppy Drive and No Media Card Reader
My Accessories
No Speaker option
New Dell USB Optical Mouse with scroll, All Black Design
Dell QuietKey Keyboard
My Software
No Resource DVD
Documentation, English, with 125V Power Cord
My Services & Warranties
Also Included
Shipping Material for System
Precision T7500 Power Suppply
$4371
Base Dual Quad Mac Pro $3299 - fabriciom, on 04/06/2009, -0/+8Guy has no idea what his talking about. Comparing a phenome with a Xeon X5500. Same as the people comparing the previous Xeons clocks with the new ones.
- osclinear, on 04/06/2009, -3/+11You'd pay the price to run Logic pro Studio or Final cut pro.....like a f-en pro....
(surf the web and check email) what a putz. - TheNik, on 04/06/2009, -3/+11These things are going to be absurdly fast with Snow Leopard and Grand Central... Too bad they are also absurdly expensive :(
- Virgule, on 04/06/2009, -1/+9Someone, knock me right out! O_O
- NovaPrime9, on 04/06/2009, -1/+8Ever? So, I guess I'd better buy one now... because next year's model will actually be slower?
- serif69, on 04/06/2009, -1/+8"...no software to use it?"
Words to describe the stupidity of this point escape me.
Last week I put together a virtual tour for a client creating what's become a ~1GB Photoshop file on a Penryn-based Mac Pro at work, and according to my handy MenuMeters, it utilized all 4 cores at about 90% during processing. (Side note: Photomerge is an amazing tool, even if it requires quite a bit of retouching afterwards)
Those of us to whom the Mac Pro is directed will almost certainly use software that takes advantage of the hardware. Photoshop, Final Cut, any number of audio programs, basically anything that creates large, complex files. - VitriolAndAngst, on 04/06/2009, -3/+10Look folks, Apple's cost more -- they do. I own a Mac and I've built a PC. I can save some real bucks building a PC and installing Mac OS on it -- but I won't because I downloaded and agreed to follow Apple guidelines with the iPhone developers kit.
But that's OK, I've been down that road of struggling to find the most bang for the buck. I can brag for a few weeks about my savings, but I'm sure the reality is, that I'm not 100% until I get the last special order item in the mail and install it in 6 months. Unless you do LOTS of homework, those radical PCs sound like a wind tunnel, burn out in 2 years, require a virus checker, $400 in extra software and a re-install of the OS every year. But if your time is worth less than $20 an hour -- it's a worthwhile endeavor. The best real savings right now are when you flash an Graphics Card. I could have made the right choices two years ago with a Pentium and good components -- but we've had RAM and motherboard changes since then. Even the graphics cards need air cooling now. So unless you spend X number of hours each week, someone on a blog somewhere is going to tell you "self build FAIL" and there goes all your Kung Fu cred.
Where Apple doesn't make sense, is in the sub $1000 market. But of course, all the major players on the PC arena are bleeding each other dry in this regard. It is unsustainable. And the bargain hunters are going to $200 NetBooks to do email and web browsing. The "Apple Tax" is like paying to go to a resort, and going without, is organizing your vacation by stringing together great deals. The second way is always cheaper, but the first is always a vacation from anxiety over whether that cheaper hotel 3 blocks from the beach got condemned since they published your travel guide.
So the ONLY way for a Windows PC to make money going forward, is going to be in after-market care. These big fortunes aren't made by just getting $30 from your PC purchase. You will get the cheap OEM Microsoft Windows, and then pay $65 to "upgrade" to enable something you didn't realize you needed. You will be getting subscription costs. Just wait. There are going to be more and more clever ways to nickel and dime you. Kind of like how you get that "cheap" phone, from the Telecom company, and then hide the costs in your monthly charge.
So it's going to be cheap to start, and annoying to continue, and cost about the same after all the hassles are dealt with. Because everybody is going to go to whomever shows them the highest processor speed and core count at the lowest price and these computers are going to be what is called "loss leaders." There will still be other companies selling cheap stuff -- but most of them are going to go bankrupt and get swallowed up in the coming year. Prices will then rise or quality will go down.
The Windows computing experience is just going to keep going down hill. Microsoft's main marketing strategy is to hype how cheap they are -- hoping everyone forgets about LINUX. Well, people drive Ford cars and they drive just fine. Do they get in arguments with people who drive a Mercedes about horsepower/dollar spent? One clever way for Microsoft to make money through the back door, is to make sure your multimedia PC respects DRM and then get money from the entertainment providers to keep you honest whether you like it or not. You don't really own that computer in your house.
>> Anyway, future speculation aside, this sounds like a decent upgrade. Of course it is the fastest every -- almost every refresh ever has been the fastest "Mac" ever. - ChromaVita, on 04/06/2009, -1/+8Well I would hope so.
- BossKey, on 04/06/2009, -0/+7Based on what I see out there on the roads, I still think at least 50% of the people who like to make fun of Apple's "higher" prices own a car that was $5000 more than the car they actually needed.
- aAnaRchY, on 04/06/2009, -1/+8CPU is only 1 of the many parts inside a computer that make a computer Fast. You can't state that because you built a computer with that cpu, it has the same performance as the Mac Pro!
- kinerry, on 04/06/2009, -2/+9you got a radeon 3300 and ddr 2 for your memory?
wow, should have gotten a 4xxx series card and 4 gig less ram that was at least ddr3
sorry, but there are small, but very significant differences here, bub. your's is nothing even remotely similar to a mac.
self-build fail! - phrenzy, on 04/06/2009, -2/+9Why are PC users so obsessed with macs?
Did some mac user ***** your girlfriend while you were busy building your machine or something? - surfacewound, on 04/06/2009, -2/+8Barring the Apple II days, I've been a PC person all my life and have never had any interest in Macs until 2006 when they wisely switched to Intel. Because of the inherent compatibility that this gave them with Windows (and therefore, more specifically, Windows apps), I became increasingly interested in them and bought a Macbook in early 2007.
After two years of Mac ownership, I can happily say that I really like most things about Macs that set them apart from other laptop manufacturers (but most definitely not all), and like Windows (generic, no specific version in mind) I really like OS X, despite hating a few of its quirks.
What I really hate though is the irrational elitist subculture that infests the general user base. They're loud and prevalent, and are really the cause for the backlash of Mac hater posts like you see here. It's because of these people that I feel like a douchebag every time I pull my Macbook out of my bag and into the bin at airport security, and I can't deny that I resent them for it.
Fanboyism in general is despicable, but the Mac fanboys are particularly rabidly vociferous.
Sincerely,
iPod, iPhone, and post-2000 Mac owner. - fabriciom, on 04/06/2009, -4/+10Well if you must know. I'm waiting on delivring of my dual 2,26 for music production with Logic.
- borez, on 04/06/2009, -1/+7PC = No Logic Pro 8 = a waste of time.
/for me. - gcnaddict, on 04/06/2009, -1/+7It's x86-64.
It's a PC. - aAnaRchY, on 04/06/2009, -2/+8WTF??
- dontreplytome, on 04/06/2009, -0/+6@TylerDumbass: I call either 1.) total *****, or 2.) you're one of the dumbest people alive, preferring that HP pos to a Macbook.
This, coming from someone who's run every version of Windows released since 1993. Yes, that includes WFW 3.11 all the way up to Windows 7 beta. - MtheoryX, on 04/06/2009, -0/+6People DO purchase apartments, you know, in large cities.
- Slizzo, on 04/06/2009, -2/+7You cannot compare a Penryn Core2Quad to a Nehalem. The Nehalem, in application, encoding, and rendering work is on order of 30%+ faster clock per clock than a Yorkfield.
And there is a HUGE difference in the performance of Dual Channel DDR2 and Triple Channel DDR3.
BTW, have fun when your PSU gives out. Coolermaster makes marginal, if that, built PSUs.
And BTW, this post comes from a guy that just built a P45 based Core2Quad 9550 rig. - Dubbsacc, on 04/06/2009, -0/+5@Moosejoose
Incorrect, Nahalem is the codename used by Intel for QPI architecture used in the new Xeons and Core i7. - fabriciom, on 04/06/2009, -1/+6nobelief: Those two things can be done fine on a PC and even Linux. If you knew anything about music production. You would know that there is no competition on the market for Logic Pro. I'll pass on paying 10k for Pro Tools HD which does not include a PC.
- flammablewater, on 04/06/2009, -3/+8Only if your willing to run 64bit, otherwise you'll only have 2.97GB of RAM
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