What is Digg?Sponsored by AVG
Windows 7 Needs An Extra Layer of Security view!
free.avg.com - AVG Anti-Virus Free 9.0 works with Windows 7, to provide the best protection against web threats.
115 Comments
- Nimortal, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33If not a hell of a lot worse than this...
Was in China a few years ago, and even the fact that they supply beds to their workers would be considered a luxury - mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28WackyT: The clothes you're wearing right now were almost undoubtedly made under the same conditions, as was the computer you're reading this on, so don't play like you're all above it. It's the American economy that demands products be as cheap as possible, even at the expense of poorer, less advantaged people.
But we're ROLLING BACK PRICES! WOOT! - FatPat, on 10/12/2007, -14/+38Uh, ever been to China? These are definitely not "substandard work environments" over there.
- mc900ftjesus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Yeah, but I hate it!
- illt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Uhm, have you ever been to china? considering hundreds happily and admittedly so take the alternative route of getting paid pennies an hour for farming gold and items in online games over grueling farming or much worse options. There isn't a real set line for "normal working conditions" in China. you have your big city jobs, which are comparable to US working conditions, and you have other jobs that are comparable to real slave labor. this is somewhere inbetween. This is not to say apple, (or pretty much EVERY computer mfger, as the all most likely use parts from foxxconn) should be abusing this cheap labor. But seriously, you're just as naive or moreso than the apple fanzombies you bashed if you think many of these workers have better options. The China you see on your television is highly censored, and mainly shows thriving cities with lots of money flowing. Unfortunately, this is just a small portion of a very large country.
Let's not also forget many components in your PC were most likely manufactured at FoxxConn, and probably a few in your consumer electronics. There's no real need to single out Apple, as i'm sure the working conditions in their other fabs are just the same or worse. - Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -9/+29Compared to other images from China, these don't seem too bad, and remember these will be the worst-looking photos the photographer managed to take.
Be aware that practically everything you buy that has 'made in China' written on it is produced in conditions simular to this. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23Where does Apple "state freedom of speech as part of the backbone of corporate policy?" Way to make things up. I'm not saying the conditions depicted are right or wrong, but it's annoying when people invent facts to support their point.
- mc900ftjesus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21I want an iPod covered in diamonds; I like my products with as much slave labor involved as possible.
- zhmic31, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14As someone who has toured a large number of chinese factories that make a variety of consumer electronics items, I am a little surprised that there is this much outrage over this story. There is a reason everything is coming out of china, and it is not because of the great working conditions. It has to do with price, and what is shown in these pictures is not only acceptable, it is the norm for most of the chinese factories. While we are sitting here wondering about the poor people in these photograph, someone should take a picture of the gates to the factory, which will inevitably have 500 people lined up trying to get these jobs that we think are so horrible. In China, the people working in the factories are the lucky ones.....
- Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15So, Bono, our humanitarian friend - what are you going to do now?
- jeremythomas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Haha. Yeah, Bono...with your special black and red iPod... Aren't you supposed to be all active in human rights stuff? Who are we kidding, Bono is the mayor of iPod City... It actually sounds like a theme park or something. OOoo I think I want to go to now.
Globalization is fun! - mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"Made In USA" often means "Made in a U.S. territory Marianas Islands sweatshop" and your Dell laptop may have been assembled in Ireland, but it likely has many components made in overseas sweatshops. Dell is even notorious for being one of the worst offenders, along with IBM and HP. They're not cheap for nuthin'.
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16The other side of the coin is that everyone who works there is an adult and is working there voluntarily, right?
The rules of a free market economy dictate that if something better existed for these folks (better wages or better working conditions), they would be there.
And just an observation, but it seems that the net effect of these kinds of stories splashing onto the page is to cause the company, in many cases, to pull out and take their manufacturing elsewhere. Which doesn't exactly help the workers.
It's interesting that this story pops up just as Apple's court fight with Creative is heating up. It would not surprise me to find out that Creative had something to do with the investigation of this story. - mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Too bad, since "iPod City" sounds like a fun place.
- dknighton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10You need to look at this in context...
First off, fitness programs at the workplace are common to Asian culture. The photo may indicate this is what is taking place, though it certainly does not indicate any "military-style drill", as the article states. There are people sitting and lounging, for christ's sake!
Second, just because a worker doesn't have a single-family home with a white picket fence and 2.5 kids to go home to in the evening doesn't mean that they have sub-standard working conditions. It's all relative to the economy of the nation, which in China is relatively poor. Those cots, lockers and wash-bins may be a gigantic step up for these individuals, who may have even been living on the streets without the proverbial "pot to piss in" before this gig.
I hope it takes a lot more than a couple of grainy photos and a self-righteous article to make iPod prices go up by 50%. - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The Apple fanboy bible provides what steps to take when Apple problems come up;
1. Claim it's false.
2. Cry that there is no proof.
3. Blame someone else.
4. Misdirect by providing false accusations
5. Redirect negative claims to other popular demons
6. Claim that all products have this problem
7. Talk about innovation
8. Start again with step one.
or as Bill Clinton successfully stated, "Deny, Deny, Deny" - meanman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Hmm doesn,t look all that bad the people seem to have beds and lockers for there personal belongings. I am sure it beats starving to death out in the streets with no shelter and as for the people outside I hardly call that "Military Style Drills" looks more like folks are just getting some fresh air.
- kanemano, on 10/12/2007, -12/+19as long as they keep the sweat and tears off of my next ipod, I'm fine.
- DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11So what is your suggested solution? Let us know. I'll see if I can guess the likely outcome of those solutions. I'll start with the most likely answer...
Answer: Force Apple to require better working standards
Outcome1: Apple splits off iPod division which moves full operations to China or another country thereby overcoming regulation.
Outcome2: Apple makes changes to their vendor requirements. Foxconn decides to stop doing business with Apple. Apple moves business to Mexico. More unemployed people in China and higher price of iPod.
Outcome3: Higher prices of iPod translate to a decrease in sales. Another player steps in with a mp3 player assembled in China under the same conditions of the current iPod factory and takes over the market.
etc.
Most of you people don't understand what the condition of most people in China would be like without the current low wage production economy. We are talking starvation. China made a change from true socialism to a market economy. Do you think conditions in the government run factories were better? Things are improving in China at an alarming rate. We don't really need to interfere. China is not the only developing country. If we start tinkering then production is likely to just move elsewhere and the people of China will be much worse off.
By the way, my wife is Chinese. In college, she shared a dorm room with 9 other female students. She slaved away in front of books for many more hours than the average American college student. All lights and power were turned off in dorm rooms at 10pm. No A/C. People studied by candlelight or in the halls which had lights.
The conditions above are really not that dissimilar from what's going on in those factories and she had to pay for it, albeit not very much by our standards. In fact she is on the way to receiving a phd, after just getting a masters degree.
Personally, I feel more sorry for the starving jobless people in Africa. - llandeiloBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I find it funny that the Mail on Sunday is being perceived as a champion of workers rights...
- buba447, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9That is there on purpose. See it makes the image look amateur. That way the photographer can still get it developed at Walmart.
I can see it now:
Walmart employee while Sifting through photo’s:
“Birthday party, abused dog, dead guy, slaves in China, quaint landscape… QUAINT LANDSCAPE?! That has got to be a duplicate of previously copy written work!”
“We have a 2319! Code red, CODE RED!” - kola_kidd, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15yeah, sure you work 15 - 20 hours a day, with no employments rights little pay and no over time. Have to sleep next to a bucket of piss with 100+ people and have very little outside communication with family or friends. I'd love to live and work in a prison factory inside a free trade zone - sounds soo much better than my current job.
- Aidenag, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12i accually went to Foxconns website and they have a "Jobs" section... didnt see any positions titled slave though... just California and a few other locations for the slave master Jobs..
- suomi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7There you go, global economics in action. What is interesting to note is that people would rather blame Apple for the problem (only one of many, MANY companies who use far east production facilities) than face the fact that it is western government sponsored protectionism and raketeering that creates these huge disparities. Global trade is intrinsically unbalanced and disproportionally weighted. Whilst Apple and others (yes Microsoft, GAP, Nike et al) are allowed, nay *encouraged* to do this kind of thing, then it will not stop. It is legal, and far from moral. The unfortunate reality is that global reform will probably only result from massive economic revolution - like the collapse of a major western economy... who knows when we will see that happen.
- apoc2050, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yea he is correct, there is nothing in the images to show that this is actually where ipods are being manufactured/assembled. For all we know it could be a toliet assembly plant someplace in asia.
MJM - thatsiebguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Ipods aren't the only thing built there, this is after all, a FoxCon factory, thus, mobos, laptops, cases, etc are made there, for most big PC manufactures. Don't act like Apple is the only company using slave labor, the entire industry is responsible. This is just FUD to single out Apple. Its nothing new. Its the same extortion of labor by the first world nations thats been going on for years now, just visit Taiwan.
- wilsonics, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This is very true, after all, Apple Insider has been wrong before. I can't say that i don't frequent their site or don't love their material...but these pictures really don't prove anything. We really do need more proof. These pictures could be any factory in china, really. Conditions are really bad in china, this is a sad fact. Their government makes sure that it stays this way to run their propoganda machine.
Their country could really prosper if they could turn it around and not censor the ***** out of everything and really let the rest of the world help them with their poverty...because they really don't give the food relief where it's needed. Well, i'm off topic now. I'm done. - satansbanjo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7There's a museum of tolerance?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13This is just not good enough. I'm not proud to be a Mac user today. My advice to anyone who cares about other human life is to call Apple now and tell them conditions must improve in these factories before you will buy any more of their products.
- dH2K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Todays, in general, human biocomputers are still cheaper and easily programmable than most pure electromechanical assembly systems.
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5...but that's exactly my point, isn't it? Apple could pull their money out of China to make a point about working conditions, and these poor folks in the factory would be even worse off than they already are.
If all of the factories operate in the same way, that becomes a government regulation issue. Most businesses do the absolute minimum for the employees that they have to do in order to maximize profit, and they certainly aren't going to do more than their competitors unless they see a tangible benefit.
Pressure needs to be applied to the Chinese government, not Apple Computer. - popsumer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Gee, wouldn't it be useful if the photos were actually up somewhere?
Here's a google cache link of the apple insider page: http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:YfCZZdf1aVsJ:forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D64141+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Just because there are worse conditions than those described in the article, doesn't make the conditions described in the article good.
- PathDaemon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5*Shuffle* workers. This is a nano factory.
- spqqn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Photos:
http://images.appleinsider.com/ipod-city1.jpg
http://images.appleinsider.com/ipod-city2.jpg - Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4No, capitalism isn't perfect, but the general trend is that it makes life better for everybody. My point is not to champion sweatshop labor conditions, but to point out that Apple's investment in that country is a good thing, not a bad thing.
The general effect is that, as more US companies invest in China and other impovershed countries, the increased money flowing into that country gradually raises the standards of living there overall, the way that adding more water to a lake causes all of the boats to rise together.
I agree, the working conditions are deplorable by my standards, but I was just offering the counterpoint that it sure as hell beats the alternative for these folks, which is to not be employed at all. - maverick97008, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5$50/week is good pay in much of China. I have traveled to factories there and found the ones I have seen to be clean and safe. Don't forget the workers are provided room and board and uniforms are provided. Many of the workers at these factories are recruited from the countryside where work is even more bleak. They can quit at any time and at many factories they do, turnover is pretty high. Just because it is not a job you want doesn't mean it is slave labor.
- Brutusfly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Apple should just cancel the orders with that factory. Then all those people pictured can grab a blanket and go sleep in a cardboard box in the mud. Or Apple can make the factory improve conditions, then they can raise iPod prices to pay for it. Then when iPod sales tank, some other manufacturer can contract the same factory and undercut Apple. Good thing Americans don't purchase anything else made under such conditions. We don't mind paying more.
Even Japanese companies have Chinese factories now. 1 Billion people who will work for food! How do you fix that? - chess007, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5To those of you who are outraged, is it a news flash to you that people work in bad conditions in other countries for companies in the u.s.a. ?
I'm not saying that these conditions are "right" or "moral" but its completely naive to believe that Apple is the only company that does this.
If you are outraged about this, don't buy products that are made in China; or have parts made in China.
Oh but apple is bad. Now I won't buy Apple!
Ok outraged person, will you buy Nikes? Will you buy a computer? Will you buy toys? Will you buy clothes?
A lot of stuff is made in China. The conditions are bad. To single out apple makes no sense.
By the way shutting the factory down will only hurt those people more, as then they won't have jobs. - ij00mini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3here you go.
http://www.duggmirror.com/apple/Photos_of_Apple_s_iPod_City_--_FoxConn/
(with pictures) - jeylux, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6these pictures prove nothing.
they show pictures of people on the roof and a door.
Show me these same people building the iPod , or at least some logos to further reinforce your claim. - DocDEB, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Golly all the out rage by the people who if their precious electronic toys were built in the US at prevailing labor costs would be screaming that Apple (or any electronics manufacturer) was charging too much. Don't like it then don't shop WalMart, CostCo, Target, KMart, Office Depot, Home Depot, Best Buy, Circuit City, Dell, HP, any of the online electronics stores, etc. Eventually the Chinese labor force will catch on and the cheap labor pool will move to another continent... maybe Africa. But, hey, I'm an American! I'm not giving up my computers, iPods, HDTV, PVR, XBox 360, ...
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Apple can't justify 1000% profit on an item and call themselves a socially responsible company when they know the conditions that the workers who build the product they sell are subject to inhuman conditions."
Brilliant! - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"What is interesting to note is that people would rather blame Apple for the problem"
Why not blame Apple? They're more than happy to build symbols of their corporate wealth and spread their 'brand' worldwide for Apple's own benefit.
They put themselves on a pedestal... they should have to take the bad with the good.
I used to be an Apple 'fan', but as time goes buy and they play more and more with the dark side, I think it's time I actively work against Apple's corporatization of the world. - Dakk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No it's a "Clean your finger before you point at my spots" issue. I do think this is singling out Apple, but if true, it doesn't excuse Apple either.
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Good point. I wonder how long it will take for Bono's 'outrage' to stop Apple + U2 iPods.
- sremick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Hmm site dead? I can't even get Coral to work.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yes, the conditions in china are not those of the u.s., but the person author of the article has obviously not been around. china is a third-world sh*thole outside major cities. same story for most other asian countries, except for japan and south korea.
- mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5As mentioned above, Dell is NOTORIOUS for being one of the worst sweatshop offenders, and this goes for their entire product line. Every single Dell (and probably Apple) has sweatshop components in it, from PCs to PDAs to monitors to their t-shirts and keychains. They wouldn't be able to compete if that wasn't the case, which is why regulation has to come from government and be demanded by the consumers (the latter of which obviously goes against our demand for increasingly cheaper prices).
- DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Congratulations. You are calling other people idiots (scientists, presidents, actors, etc) for a product they buy and that's the best comment your obviously brilliant mind can excrete?
-
Show 51 - 100 of 115 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 
