What is Digg?198 Comments
- stewils, on 10/12/2007, -5/+79The man's right, gaming is the only reason I'm typing this on a pc, not a Mac....
- nickbender, on 10/12/2007, -4/+77While I would argue that the *business factor* is probably much larger to do with PC's still having marketshare... the fact that most home users... ESPECIALLY in generation y... are very influenced by gaming, is something that apple really should take into consideration.
The one thing that Apple hasn't really tried for either, is competition with directX. The reason most gamestudios don't code for mac is because they simply can't afford it. If MS comes along and holds your hand and gives you a great foundation for which to code your game around, rather than having to build from the ground up with OpenGL... of course they're going to take the easy route... because its more money.
If Apple truly wants to attack the gamer market, they simply need to not only acquire some decent gaming studios... but also just flat out cater to more of developers period.
A lot of it could very well be due to the Apple ego... i.e. not wanting to have any official apple games fall 'below the bar'. But time will tell... with apple recently releasing apple tv, and finally breaking down and trying the PDA market again... who knows what pond they'll toss their line out to next. - meepus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+62Having to install an entire other operating system in order to ensure the accessibility of games is a bit of an asinine work-around, wouldn't you say? Native support would be much, much better.
- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+42You clearly have no idea what a great gaming machine is.
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -9/+46This is what cracks me up about the Apple ads - it depicts the Mac as the 'fun' operating system and Windows as the 'no fun' operating system.
It the complete opposite - I would guarantee you that the average Windows user spends more hours recreationally on their computer then on a Mac.
In the ads, Apple pretty much considers anything that has to do with multimedia as 'fun', and everything else (including games), is a 'spreadsheet app'. - popothebright, on 10/12/2007, -10/+36People... the problem is cost. Gamers are good at squeezing every last drop of speed and performance out of their dollar. Macs cost too much. If it came down to an Alienware vs some future "Gaming Mac" I'd go for whichever one gave me more fps for my buck -- and I guarantee it wouldn't be the Mac.
This isn't a comment about Mac vs. PC -- its about who can deliver the most performance for the dollar. And frankly, Apple isn't good at that.
Ok fanboys -- mod me down. But price isn't an opinion.... - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28what does bootcamp have to do with games on OS X?
- IbnDigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27Same here! Infact it's the only reason why I'm still sticking with XP, though in dual boot. If either linux or mac can solve the gaming issue, goodbye windows
- Kurisuku, on 10/12/2007, -20/+45Hah.
So... Instead of buying a PC for 500-800, being able to play all the latest games and applications, and also having the linux option if you really hate Windows....
Instead, you'll buy a mac for 1500-3000, have inferior hardware (at a premium price), especially considering this is GAMING hardware we're talking about, and install Windows on it (or emulate it with a performance hit) and simply not be satisfied with your gaming experience since it just won't be as good as what you could of got at a much less cheaper price, all so.. What? You can claim you're a mac owner?
Look, I love macs. I would only use a mac laptop. The OS is to die for. But it is NOT worth the extreme drawbacks when it comes to gaming. - frostieDude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26@nickbender
Have you actually programmed with DirectX and/or OpenGL? I program with both of these every day (okay - maybe not both every day, but I work on an app every day that uses both). DirectX has some nice features, but it is not easier to program with than OpenGL. In fact, in some ways it gives you more low level control at the expense of having to do more work to specify more low level things.
The Mac doesn't have a lot of games because Apple went out of their way for many years to discourage game development for the Mac. I'm not sure that they particularly want the Mac to be a major gaming platform. I'm not sure that it would really help them. - Beatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Truth of the matter is (and I am prepared to be dugg down for this), Apple doesn't particularly care about the gamer crowd. Apple is not geared that way. The company views itself as a slick machine designed for one thing- Creative Productivity. That's why you can't generally crack one open without major surgery. Apple doesn't want gamers ripping their machines apart to install the latest graphics card because Apple has a very specific and stylized design process.
Apple know this. So should you. Want to game? That's cool- grab a PC. - moisie, on 10/12/2007, -11/+29kurisuku, are you trying to tell me that the spec of an $800 pc is directly comparable to a $3000 Mac?
- bluesdealer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I'd like to see both Linux and Mac OS on equal footing with MS in the gaming world. Yeah, it's just a fantasy, but I can dream.
- msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16No, Core Animation isn't like DirectX at all. I suppose it would help if someone decided to write a game for the Mac, but it's not a "game API" like DirectX is.
- Dayyve, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24Whatever fkr3 says it won't stop random people from writing random letters to random companies expressing their opinions. Yay freedom.
@nickbender
Absolutely man. The only reason I don't own a Mac is because of the gaming factor and if they did venture into that territory I'm the type of guy that would own both computers, just cuz ;) (as sure a lot of you would) - yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16theworm:
i would hardly call gaming a niche. it's even bigger than the movie industry now. Mac users make up a whopping 9% of the market. PC gaming make up a little more than that. It's the reason I have a PC. it's the reason many people have a MS PC. That in itself makes it something Apple should take seriously if they want to gain substantial ground over MS in the PC market. - snuf42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I'd say that Apple would need to offer better options on the video card front. You just can't get a good mid-range Mac with a decent video card for gaming. I usually have about $1500 to spend on a new computer and on the PC side that's a good amount. Right now I have a Core2Duo 6600 2.4GHz with a 7900GT video card. Now the closest I can come on the Mac side is an iMac 24" Core2Duo 2.33GHz with a 7600GT card. Now thats a nice monitor but I'd be spending $1000 more than the PC and the lower end video card can't drive gaming on a 24" monitor at native resolution with effects turned up. Not too mention that monitor can't ever be moved to another computer.
So the only step is to move up to a Mac Pro starting at $2500 for the base config (once more $1000 over the mid range PC although this time without monitor). It's overkill in the CPU dept for gaming but the video comes up lacking. You can upgrade to an X1900 but once again more money. So I'm up $1500 or double the cost of the PC. And there is currently no SLI or Crossfire support on Macs.
It's not that the Macs aren't a good value - they are - it's that the limited configuration options prevent you from building a good performing gaming machine without spending an arm and a leg. My son's $700 AMD 4200 X2 with a 7600GT will outperform an iMac costing twice as much in gaming.
I have a MacBook Pro and I've gamed on it using bootcamp. With newer games the detail has to be turned down a lot to drive the display at the native resolution.
I'd love for Apple to release a non-all in one mid range Mac. Give me a PCI express x16 slot for video upgrades. I don't want an integrated monitor either. I don't need 4 CPUs for gaming at this time. I do need a good price point. I'd be happy with a more expandable Mac without monitor at the same price point as a mid-range iMac. - catburton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I agree with IbnDigg - i won't buy a mac until i know i can play the latest games on it. I don't want to have to wait months for the Mac version either. They should be released at the same time on both Macs and PCs. The day that happens, i'd gladly switch over to a mac! Until then, i'll stick with my PC.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14get an snes if you want a real gaming machine.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -25/+37The Mac IS a PC. Are you talking about Windows? Then say Windows.
- meshman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"The Mac IS a PC. Are you talking about Windows? Then say Windows."
Tell that to Apple. (Mac vs PC) - ScrumFritter, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16@brundlefly76
I totally agree with you there, actually. I'm a Mac user, and those ads make me cringe, because although we may have you beat on all the other recreational stuff, our 'digital lifestyle' as they put it is sorely lacking in the one area I care about the most - GAMES! Is it enough to make me switch back to Windows? Ew, no. But still, it's enough to make those ads a bunch of *****.
***** Hell, does Apple even have a games division? And why not? - Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10no, he is saying you could build a gaming rig for $800, to get the hardware you would need from apple you would need a $3000 computer, it may be superiour, but what if you dont have/dont want to spend the extra $2k for more fps?
and about the multicore:reckon they will never come to non-mac PC's? or do you think game developers will start making games for them before windows based machines start using them in significant numbers? - DEIx15x8, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Can core animation help gaming at all and be used like DirectX?
- generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10A DirectX (are we talking Direct3d or DirectSound?, etc) competitor isn't needed, that would just fragment the market between Mac, Linux, and the game consoles even more.
Direct3d is only used on the Microsoft products Windows and the Xboxes. Do you think PS3 and the Wii run DirectX? No, they use OpenGL and assorted toolkits.
Anyone who thinks OpenGL is behind also missed the article where it was pointed out that OpenGL also has all the features of DirectX 10 due to nVidia's vendor extensions.. - sipsyrup, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14i bet you read it anyways
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Why does Steve Jobs hate gaming? Do you people realize he once worked at Atari? Maybe he was beat up by Trip Hawkins or something and has had some sort of deep-rooted psychological trauma ever since then?
I don't know if Steve realizes it or not, but lack of games (relatively speaking) is the last thing holding Macs back from mainstream success. - PATSCRU, on 10/12/2007, -35/+44Three words: get a PC. Bunch of whiners.
- ModernTenshi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10That's one of the things that's always sort of puzzled me about those "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC," commercials. While they're witty and point out the flaws of PC's nicely, they constantly say that PC's are for work and businesses, while Macs are for fun (and for business as well). However, the gaming aspect just isn't there, and that's in the fun area. I've decided to save up money this summer to finally buy a 20" iMac (video drivers don't play nicely with my laptop anymore), but I'm still going to have to dual boot the system to play all the PC games I own. Sure I can re-buy some for OS X, but if I can just install my current copy of Windows on it and play the games I already have, what's the point? I'm already set to save and then spend $1500 on an iMac (education discount), but the fact that I still can't completely get away from Windows like I'm wanting to is rather disappointing.
I still plan on switching over to OS X, but I completely agree with this article: Apple needs to make my choice to switch complete, by letting me do exactly what I did on my Windows machine, including playing the latest games.
Well, not exactly everything I did on my Windows machine; certain aspects of using Windows they can leave out . . . . - jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"from wiki"
just because some tard whacked some text in to wikipedia, it doesn't make it true. - Kurisuku, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11You have to make a decision:
Do you want mac's applications and OS, or do you want superior hardware for gaming? Do you want both?
If you don't care about gaming, go mac.
If you care about gaming, you're still PC.
If you need both, then buy a desktop PC, and a mac laptop. It's the only work around to this problem. Mac's hardware is simply inferior to what you could get at a CHEAPER price on the PC. It is not gaming hardware. Period. You're paying a premium for the mac's applications and functionability, not particularly the hardware itself, which while is solid hardware, it's simply not going to touch what you need to game.
I've heard so many people whine about bootcamp and emulation, but both are going to slam you with extreme performance hits. Most scream, "No, not bootcamp!" But yes, you paid 3000 for hardware that really isn't going to meet spec with modern games. - Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8riiigght, because there are only 5 people from the US who play CS, or go to lans or anything.
those gfx card companies, they are all going bust cause noone wants mid-high range gfx cards
gaming keyboards and mice are a big money loser, but companies still make them for the hell of it
steam, the us servers are empty, US devs never make PC games with massive budgets cause they just lose money
do I really need to go on pointing out your massive ignorance? - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Cedega would be a temp fix... but the real problem to address is building a toolkit as good as DirectX and Visual Studio. A OpenGL-Cocoa would be amazing... maybe thats a secret feature in Leopard?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9pay more, get less
Apple - davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I wouldn't necessarily switch, but competition would certainly be welcome.
- Masterbaiter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/snes/
Then get a SNES Emulator. Bests of both worlds. Mouth and Keyboard + SNES. - mfearby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Amen to that. The iMacs are nice machines if you want straight-forward, reliable, computing if you don't care about upgrade path and/or games. The Mac Pro machines are just overkill and are way too pricey for anybody but movie studios and publishing firms to consider. Apple need to release a semi-upgradable, non fully-integrated, Mac (with the gamer in mind) before they'll start winning over massive loads of Windows users.
Even though I don't play games, I'm still holding out on becoming a switcher because of the lack of upgradeability and the (somewhat justified) name-calling that would ensue from my gaming friends (that, and the fact that Macs are generally double the price of what I would pay for a PC and also because the Dock and the Finder piss me off). - NaziHatinChimp, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Yeah, you would think they would come up with a solution to the problem, like being able to partition the hard drive so you can run windows or linux so you can play those games and keep your OS separate. Maybe even running them "parallel" to each other so you can switch between them. Then you could have the best of both worlds.
Man how will Apple ever solve this problem? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I use Macs for computing. I play games on PS2.
I don't use a screwdriver to drive a nail.
Why is this hard? - Tinmanau, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Steve has said the Mac is not a toy and doesn't do games, so Apple fans should just give it up. If Steve doesn't want it, it won't happen...
- EBFoxbat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9To have a rig built for gaming, you must build it yourself. However, it's not fair to say that you can't game on a Mac. A $3000 Mac Pro will game orgasmically. However you could build the equivalent performance for 1/3 the price if you want it yourself.
- jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Having been to more than a handful of LAN's in the last two years I have been made to feel that in a very open way gamers are the highest margin of computer software pirates on the planet. Pub's with hundreds of gig's of software titles/keygens/cracks and usually these events attendee's are playing pirated games.
To complain about Apple prices being priced so high that they are actually able to kill its appeal to a certain group then I think you have finally found that one group. Gamers are usually great guys though, Leeroy Jenkins aside. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"its OSX that has the potential to make me to go Apple.... If I wanted to boot into Windows I would stick with building my own, bootcamp makes buying a Mac seem kind of redundant."
That makes no goddamned sense; it's exactly backward. Boot Camp might make buying a Windows machine redundant for some people, but not the other way around. - Septimus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Yes as I really want to play games on my ***** iMac 20" (Core2 with an ancient ATI, good going Apple) which costs as much as any gaming rig I could ever need. /sarcasm
Apple is not for gamers. Style over substance people remember that.
/posted from my MacBook. - Ecco2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@prockcore
It's pretty pathetic to see people arguing over technical details while they have NO idea of how things actually work. For instance, it's freaking easy to use a C++ library from a Cocoa app. Totally straightforward. Plus (this is a different thing) you can actually even mix Obj-C and C++ code in the same source file. - ZergyPoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Uhm... no.
You can get a very good gaming PC for far less than the 1,500 dollars it would cost to get both a 360 and a Macbook.
Try again. - Cyber_Akuma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually yes, I DO enjoy tweaking my system and messing around with it, it is a hobby and it is (unless im trying to find the one %^^#&^#$^ thing stopping it from working) usually fun for me. Games are a form of entertanment, just like music and movies, might as well just call any recreational activity on the planet a waste of time at this rate.
And hey, forget orange juice, it turns out that the gas market is bigger than gaming too, huh, who knew that I could also compare two completely different markets that have absolutely nothing to do with each other too? - nealpolitan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Bottom line is that power gamers are not in Apples target audience. Why try and fit a square peg in a round hole? By making Macs as user upgradeable as Windows machines are is defeating the purpose of having a closed architecture to design your OS around.
- nuclearpenguins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Not everyone enjoys console gaming. I know I sure don't.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Open letters" are a vain grab for attention by the author.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 206 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is