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NBC to End iTunes Sales of Its Shows

nytimes.com — "NBC Universal, unable to come to an agreement with Apple on pricing, has decided not to renew its contract to sell digital downloads of television shows on iTunes." Media giants have new brilliant plan for making more money from their content: by pulling them off the most popular online music + video store.

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  • nace33, on 10/10/2007, -30/+250Screw NBC. Everybody with a DVR, keep skipping commercials and we'll see how long NBC can exist without embracing the future of distribution. Apple can cure this attempt at leverage by releasing an AppleTv with a HDTuner and front row DVR software. We all get NBC HD OTA anyway, why pay for it.? Once again, Screw NBC.
    • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -33/+12Wait a second... They ARE embracing the future of video distribution. You can get all this stuff, in HD I might add, on xbox right now.
      • netburnr, on 10/10/2007, -4/+31Or you get it off a torrent the next day. well most shows anyway
        • dark_helmet, on 10/10/2007, -1/+28Next day? how about 45 minutes after it airs.
        • windohs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8or you can use tv-links.co.uk for every heroes episode and pretty much any tv show you can think of
      • nickdngr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23On the west coast, I can pull it from torrents as it airs.
      • thatsmyaibo, on 10/10/2007, -5/+17Really? The 360 is the future of video distribution? I must have been crazy to think that more people used iTunes than an XBOX. Thank you for opening my eyes.
        • plasticxme, on 10/10/2007, -5/+5The 360 actually is a better distribution point. Most home computers are not connected to a TV and why would anyone want to watch a movie or TV show from their desk. The Xbox is just the beginning, if this method of delivery is successful then I'm sure Sony, and many others, will jump all over that band wagon.

          You can't burn Itunes videos to DVD and the average home user will not want to hack the file to do so. Your only options are: 1) Sync to IPOD 2) Watch on Desktop/Laptop 3) Connect computer to your TV.

          It's all about consumer convenience, and Itunes video is not convenient. Distributing the videos through services like XBL also give the distributors more control over how you use the downloaded content.

          Video distribution over the internet is still in it's infancy and distributors are still trying to figure out the best means of doing it.
        • superal1394, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5umm, ok, idk bout you, but being limited to 120 gigs of storage to RENT videos in HD isn't gonna be for me. I want to OWN that *****, and I want to keep more than three movies at a time.

          Not to mention the 360 comes with a 300 dollar overhead cost, and is not meant for watching videos, but for playing games.

          Stop this idea of bundling now, modularization in the software world is best.
      • mikalveli, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10How much is Microsoft paying you? You have posted 5 or 6 comments sucking their *****.
        • potp, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3No macfags suck *****. MSfags are forced to take it up the ass.
      • nonymous666, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7What's an Xbox?
        • Boondoggle, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1A toy you hook up to your TV to play on.

          still nice though...:)
        • potp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Its HUGE,
        • sadilak, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1A box that is ruled by the red rings of death
    • cgreentx, on 10/10/2007, -41/+24Screw Apple and the downloads you can only watch on the computer or an Apple product.
      • drlha, on 10/10/2007, -19/+9Since when were Windows PCs an "Apple Product"?
        • Baelorn, on 10/10/2007, -7/+20"computer OR an Apple Product" I can't fathom who dugg you up for your lack of comprehension skills. I will now be dugg down, but my mission is complete...*****.
          • xerexes1, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Because the original statement is false.
        • mrsteveman1, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Apple is only allowing people to use iTunes from windows because the store would have completely failed if it were OS X only from the start.

          Same thing happened with the iPod, they had to totally drop Firewire as the sync interface in favor of USB2 because thats what Windows PCs all had, and thats where the market still is today. If things were turned around Apple would absolutely use its position to lock the market and they do it in other areas constantly.
        • cleverboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1@mrsteveman1
          I've read you comment twice, and I can't figure out what your ***** point is (I just know its lack of direction irks me). It sounds generally like you're saying that Apple is self-serving, but I'm not sure who you're responding to or how its relates to much about this story. Apple gave the iPod to Windows users, because Windows users were finding ways to use the iPod on Windows, and clamoring for it. iTunes came to Windows because MusicMatch sucked ass as a stop-gap measure, and Apple saw the iTunes platform as being a useful one to level for the sake of its iPod for Windows initiative and the launch of the iTunes music store on both platforms.

          Saying "Apple is only allowing people to use iTunes from windows because the store would have completely failed if it were OS X only from the start." is more than a bit backwards. It's never been about the iTMS succeeding. It's been about servicing its iPods. Yes, that's why iPods switched to USB2, in order to make production easier. "If things were turned around, Apple would absolutely use its position to lock the market" to WHAT? That's a rambling half-sentence there.

          Honestly, if Windows users showed no interest, Apple would be completely happy ONLY servicing Mac customers. Instead, they stepped up to deal with demand, and not have Windows customers hacking solutions together in order to use iPods. At the time I bought my first iPod (1st generation), I ONLY used my Mac to manage my iTunes music, and my PC for everything else.

          Prior to iTunes, Apple had Quicktime for Windows, which has been around for as long as the hills. I've been developing multimedia back when Macromedia Director was the only way to generate nice animation on Windows, and eventually Quicktime was a godsend I believe at version 3. As such, Apple's always had an eye for supporting other platforms and keeping its solutions relevant and flexible for content developers / distrubutors. That's why the Apple trailers website has been so popular since forever.

          If your point is that Apple needs windows... well duh. If your point is that Apple is an abusive company, only trying to lock people into their own platform, then I think you're an idiot. Apple has a long history of jumping to support interoperability whe users/customers demanded it. It's never been any more nefarious than that. Things like Bootcamp and switching to Intel have been more "optimizations" that ave helped make them insanely competitive. People who remember how fast Firewire was are still annoyed though.
    • Shorties, on 10/10/2007, -5/+77Those ASSHOLES!, I was planning on getting all my NBC shows from iTunes next year when I am in college because I don't have time for watching TV when its on and I certainly don't have money to get a tivo. Well sorry NBC I love your network, I love universal, but it looks like I am going to have to resort to "Other" methods of getting your content... And if they are going to be on Amazon unbox or another service that uses MS DRM that isnt going to help me as I am on a Mac. So good job NBC I hope you at least start streaming The Office on your site or you are completely alienating the entire Mac consumer base. (Damn this really pisses me off I loved the season pass feature on iTunes and have been working over the summer so that I could subscribe to a bunch of shows this fall season, most of which were on NBC... Looks like they won't be getting my money... too bad). Hello Bittorent.
      • jonnyeh, on 10/10/2007, -10/+7They'll probably be on the xbox marketplace.
        This news doesn't bother me though, since you can't buy ANY shows here in Canada.
      • pmuse, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11When I went to college, I got a little usb adapter that allows me to both WATCH cable on my laptop, and to RECORD it tivo style, without any membership fee. Also, I can cut commercials out and then quickly burn the shows to DVD.
        • ahoyhoy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Care to give us a name of this wonder product?
          • pmuse, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7EyeTV Hybrid, I think.
          • subliminalurge, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"Care to give us a name of this wonder product?"

            Um, dude, he's just describing a USB TV tuner. Lots of companies make them, and they're not expensive. And if you're satisfied with standard def content, you don't even need a very powerful PC to function as a DVR.
          • bigsteve, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4 Lisa: No I can't! I can't eat any of them!
            Homer: Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Lisa honey, are you
            saying you're *never* going to eat any animal again? What about
            bacon?
            Lisa: No.
            Homer: Ham?
            Lisa: No.
            Homer: Pork chops?
            Lisa: Dad! Those all come from the same animal!
            Homer: [Chuckles] Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.
        • Shorties, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The only problem with the EyeTV Hybrid is that you have to have your laptop connected to a cable plug all the time if you want it to record the shows for you. My last computer was a media center PC which I loved (Until the motherboard died) I just can't see that being practical in a laptop. Plust they are like $100 which I really don't want to spend all at once if I end up not using it. I have money for A brand new iPod and about 5-8 shows on the season pass feature, I am still getting the new iPod (On the 5th when announced) but it looks like NBC won't be getting my money for their shows.
      • cleverboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah, if these idiots start limiting online distribution, trying to herd people to its website or something, I'll just get an EyeTV USB Tuner as well. Put a nice system together with some Apple scripting to convert new shows to iPhone format and add them to iTunes automatically. I just need a cheapo dedicated Mac to just record things as they air. Unfortunately, that doesn't include old shows, but whatever. These people... utter stupidity.

        You realize what they want right? Xbox DRM is WAY more restrictive than iTunes. BY FAR. So, they like those limits a lot more and want iTunes to restrict its DRM and charge more. The idea that I purchase on iTunes and playback on AppleTV, iPod, or iPhone... and up to 5 different computers... is probably profoundly irritating to them. They just see more money, when in fact, I wouldn't pay more for those things, I'd just copy it from some place... like my Netflix subscription. Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb.
        • danielwsmithee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You don't need any scripting EyeTV's software will do the conversion and drop it into iTunes/iPod/iPhone for you.
        • superal1394, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1orrrr you can use bittorrent...

          ...not that im condoning piracy.

          PIRACY IS BAD PEOPLE.
        • cleverboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm only guessing, but I think EyeTV USES Applescripting to sync with iTunes (iTunes is obviously an Applescript-ready application). Which is cool, considering you can break it out further with Automator. I'd also like to get that new USB encoder that creates/converts-to H.264 movies in seconds.
      • managizzle, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2So you can afford to buy all your shows from NBC, but can't afford to Tivo it???
        • superal1394, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1um, college=doesnt want to pay for cable (the other industry that is EF'ing its consumers in the A)=iTunes is the better deal.
        • cleverboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2CLearly you not REALLY talking about TiVo. They just abandoned "life time" memberships, remember? So, yes, you have to by the box, and then you have to "subscribe" to the service. Sounds like all kinds of pain. Buying one off entertainment is cheaper, and doesn't require you buy anything but the content. Done.Much of this isn't about economics as much as its about choice of ways to consume your media. In a lot of ways, I prefer downloads.
      • cwoolf34, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1You have no life, you worked an entire summer to pay to watch some TV shows in the fall?!? WTF man. Sounds like some ***** to me. Just trying to get people revved up.
    • bonnain, on 10/10/2007, -16/+4Fanboy, much?
      • chuckythe2651, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I don't Shorties' comments are coming from a fanboy point of view. I think he's got a good point. I don't have cable (because I'm not going to pay 100 bucks for 5 channels of quality content) so I miss out on shows like Battlestar. Until iTunes I would have to wait for the DVDs to come out up to 6 months after the show had aired. Season passes are awesome and couple that with being able to easily sync with with my Apple TV and iPhone. I'm with Apple in this fight more that 1.99 is stupid and moving to a sliding scale pricing or bundled package is just retarded (if I want the Office I don't want the 40 year old virgin. If I wanted that movie I would have bought it). Shorties, I'm with you, if NBC wants to remove the only viable (because I have a mac, ipod, and apple tv) and legal way for me to get there content...then I will just have to go to less than legal methods. BAD MOVE NBC
    • DAllenJ, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12My xbox melted. Now what?
    • thetanman, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18I love how Apple are such hard asses! I, along with several people I know, have utilized ABC's online player quite a bit. It was really well executed, and who knows how much they reaped in advertising by putting it out when they did. Plus, all the revenue was split ONE WAY. I'm sure NBC has something very similar brewing.
      Still, I wouldn't mind watching Dwight on a new iPhone-like iPod video between classes...
      • Aiwanei, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Ummm NBC already has streaming videos on their site, granted they are only up for about a week each now (originally the entire season was up at once) This started at the beginning of last season and has still continued. While ABC's player is better, NBC's isn't bad. Also NBC released a program that let you download HD quality of certain shows that would expire about a week after getting them. The software to download it is annoying as hell, but hey free HD quality in a legal way isn't bad.
        • slightlyoffbeat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7true...but it sucks when you compare it to ABCs player. Something is still better than nothing i guess.
          • superal1394, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1plus you can't put it on your iPod
    • Quix, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3I smell Ballmer...
    • timdorr, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15So, did anyone actually read the article, or just the headline?

      "The two companies could still reach an agreement on a new contract before their current deal expires. While each side has so far refused to budge, the talks will continue and have been free of acrimony, the person familiar with the matter said."

      There's still a good chance they can work something out. They have 4 months to do so. And considering the hard part of getting the content into the video store is already set up, the contract would only need to be extended on paper only.

      Also, I don't get this sudden need for stronger DRM. Who is trading videos ripped from the iTunes store? I've never seen a video like that being traded. Have they even broken iTunes video DRM yet?
    • joegibes, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1...which reminds me, I recorded Scrubs last night, gotta watch it brb

      But seriously, the only reason I wouldn't DVR NBC shows (or any for that matter) is because I get NBC in HD as well.
    • TridenTBoy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I'll get the shows through EZTV or some other party instead.. DVRs are rip-offs when I can get this ***** without having to skip through commercials 4 freeeeeeeee
    • nomad255, on 10/10/2007, -14/+3Screw I Tunes. good job NBC
    • Konrad9, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7: |
      Fine, I'll download BSG the other way.
      The free way.
    • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0Thefuture of TV distribution does NOt have to be the iTunes store, you ***** idiot.
    • Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1Apple is the future. the ONLY future.
      anyone who does not embrace apple is doomed to perish.
      Apple is your lord and saviour.
    • batmant, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i would love that too but Apple's not going to release a tuner that cannibalizes their own sales in the iTunes store.

      Apple's approach on everything is control the whole experience. From the Front Row App, to the OS, to the hardware, to the iTunes backend.
    • Bartboy919, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3you guya all fail to realize that NBC has most of its shows on their website. Some are in HD. They are all free and all you have to watch is a 30 second commercial wher it would normally break on TV
      • OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1they never play for me though. nice try
    • SirBotchness, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yea cause NBC completely relied on apple to survive up until this point correct? Oh, and i'm sure they made most of their profits from selling over itunes right?
    • jimmiss, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1FYI: Your're certainly TCB on the DL with all those acronyms.
    • aroq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Cool. I'll just continue pirating, it's much easier and cheaper!

      Yo ho, *****.
  • tdogzthmn, on 10/10/2007, -7/+490Does this mean I have to go back to my "shady ways" for getting The Office? Oh well, NBC's loss.
    • ButterBuddha, on 10/10/2007, -48/+6Go back? You're a fool for paying for it....
      • Iwantawii, on 10/10/2007, -1/+34I'll disagree. It's hella convenient for the 2 bucks a week. I travel all the time for work and often get access to the internet for only an hour or two a day. Bittorrent doesn't work so well in areas that you can't forward the ports to your connection.

        Besides, it positively supports the future of distribution. For shame, it was a good thing. NBC's loss.
        • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -26/+3So get an xbox and watch it there...
          • mikalveli, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11How much is Microsoft paying you? You have posted 5 or 6 comments sucking their *****.
        • DAllenJ, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1My xbox melted. Now what?
        • JoshuaH, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Microwave.
      • Rustbelt, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3Proud of being a thief are you?
        • Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes!

          If people (the MPAA and RIAA; if you can call them people) are going to call me a thief then why shouldn't I become a thief?
    • cgreentx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+36I would gladly pay for a legal distribution of the shows I like if they weren't vendor locked.
      • r3zonance, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Is that in the same way that most people would pay for higher quality DRM-free music?

        Cos then, it'll just be back to the "I want it cheaper" argument to continue pirating, once they get higher quality and DRM-free, a la iTunes.
        • cgreentx, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2You mean the 5 tracks they released in that format and made it sound like you could get everything that way? I have yet to find anything on there that I would have considered paying for anyway... And yes.. I look frequently. Maybe one day they'll actually put up a good portion of their content that way and I'll install that virus of an app, iTunes, again.
        • r3zonance, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Well I upgraded at least 20 of my tracks to the nice high quality DRM free. And no they didn't make it sound like you could get everything that way. They were VERY explicit that on EMI music would be available on iTunes Plus.

          iTunes may be a virus of an app in your eyes, but it offers the best experience to the users.
        • frostieDude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When I have the option of buying music DRM free on iTunes, I ALWAYS do.
      • potterboy, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Just buy it from Amazon and use FairUse4WM. Works a charm.
    • redheadguy719, on 10/10/2007, -2/+38for crying out loud, the office was like, always the top tv show whenever a new episode came out! They could have made tons of money with that. DUMBASSES.
      • dillibob, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2you can watch the 1st two seasons of the office for free on netflix's watch it now
        • awhiteflame, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I can watch it for free (well... sort of) on TV too. That's not really the point.
    • TheTap, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Occasionally, I liked the iTunes version because they would offer the extended version' once in a while. However, the copies on alt.binaries.hdtv were always of superior quality so I'll keep going there.
    • jtp51, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I've had a chance to watch the office - kid's activities in the evenings - is it really that good of a sitcom as people say it is?
    • zydeco, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15I'll second tdog. I tried my best to purchase shows legitimately when available. If NBC wants to take that option away, so be it.
      • pt4117, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1I'm sure they are going to sel their shows another way. Just because it isn't through the precious ITMS doesn't mean it isn't available.
        • corsa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7That's true, but I like having all my shows in one place, from one source. I don't want to have to use a different online store for each network, I like the convenience of going to one place, subscribing to the shows I enjoy, and being able to watch them on my desktop computer, my laptop, my TV if I connect my laptop to it (no need to buy an Apple TV), or my iPod.
        • zydeco, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2ITMS is most certainly 'precious'. Wanna know why? My wife can figure it out. AND I didn't have to hear constant questions of "are we going to go to jail for this?" every time I fired up my bittorrent client.
    • Chewie67, on 10/10/2007, -17/+5If they do not offer a legal way for you to purchase and download their programs, feel free to download pirated version.

      Please note, I'm not a lawyer. Use this advice at your own risk.

      PS: The Office sucks.
    • Lennalf, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1If you download NBC programs through a major torrent site like EZTV, you *WILL* get busted. It's just a matter of time. They do watch the major torrent networks. PeerGuardian2 and torrent encryption are far from foolproof. They won't press you with any real threats the first time, but be careful not to get caught twice...

      This is specific to NBC. I don't know to what extent other companies are on top of their own *****... but basically if it is the kind of content that gets removed from YouTube in under an hour, you can probably assume the torrents are being watched as well.
      • filth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4And what are they going to accuse you of? Downloading hash files? They care far more about the big-time seeders than the millions of one and done downloaders.
    • mi6bomb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I'd be right there with you... if NBC hadn't tried to subpoena me earlier this year for just that.
      • xike, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ah, they sent their BayTSP friends after you too? I wince every time I try to grab a torrent from NBC.
    • goodoldharris, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Diddo. NBC is run by a bunch of tards if they expect consumers to pay 4.99 for an episode of a TV program that will only be viewed once, maybe twice at the most. ***** tards. Go ahead and double the prices. Then shut down the torrent sites. Then put people in jail for copying. The result will just be that consumers will go somewhere else to find their entertainment.
  • swimmingbird67, on 10/10/2007, -20/+11how smart.

    /sarcasm.
    • Alegoo92, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3This sucks sooo much... now how will I get my House episodes?
    • Zbrah, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If someone couldn't have figured out that you were being sarcastic then they probably need to go back to reading comprehension class(does this actually exist?).
  • teledano, on 10/10/2007, -15/+8I can understand selling your content in as many places a possible, and a crack in the iTunes juggernaut would be could for consumers, but pulling completely out of iTunes is just asinine.

    Lets see: Bundling of media, tiered prices for downloads, poorly designed web sites, moving goal posts of device support, self destructing media, god knows what else. Oh joy! I can't wait! This is going to get so ugly....

    For only $XX, get your season pass to The Office and enjoy the side splitting laughs of star Steve Carell in everyone's favorite move from the summer of 2007 Evan Almighty!
  • abhiroop, on 10/10/2007, -1/+48I would have thought this would be more popular (as in it hasn't been dugg very much!)

    Anyway the more important issue I found is NBC wanting to "package" TV shows. This is the WORST idea ever. I HATE having to deal with packages of any kind. Its such a headache to calculate whether it would be cheaper or not. Even then the savings aren't that great. A related title would be helpful, for example if I were to buy The Office then I'd be more inclined to buy say Evan Almighty, or 40 Year Old Virgin, but I would HATE to have to buy them together.

    Any kind of system like that is an annoyance. For example I sometimes prefer to have more voice minutes than texts or vice versa. IN the UK there's a really useful plan where instead of a set minutes and texts u get credit. so lets say for 30 pounds a month u get 180 pounds worth of credit. Then each text is like 10p and each minute is like 20p (or whatever). This way u use it how you like. I wouldn't mind paying a premium for an easy to use system like iTunes, where I don't have to calculate what the cost of package a is v. the cost of package b.
    • yabos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I think they want to try and bundle their crappy shows with the popular ones and make more money. There's a reason no one buys the crappy shows.
    • corripio, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well said. I doubt NBC will get the consumer support they are hoping for. They make it pretty clear that the want to be able to sell as bundles to increase profit. It has nothing to do with providing better content or more content or a better consumer experience, only more profit. What value does the consumer get by having to buy twice as much, especially if you don't want that second item.

      Not to mention the obvious point that it's a show you can watch free on broadcast TV...being able to sell it immediately after (and not wait months or years to sell it on DVD, which they still will do) should be seen as icing on the cake. It's a new source of revenue they didn't have before.

      It's also funny that they think they can set up their own site and do it better than Apple. They avoided digital distribution like the plague initially and now they think they can succeed where giants like Google have already failed? Last I hear that Amazon service wasn't doing too well either.
    • diggforreal, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0In America we have similar cell phone service. Its called pre-paid. It is usually for the credit challanged parents or their children. You almost always come out ahead with the bundled plans though.
      • jkarhu24, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So... So... So true. Every single person I know that has gotten a "pre-paid" phone ends up having no phone within a couple of months, weeks, or sometimes, days because of the need to continually "top up" or purchase "refill cards." I love how they relate the gasoline term "top up," as if cell phone minutes were some valuable and unrenewable resource (such as oil). If you actually use your phone (for more than two minutes), you can rack up a bill anywhere from $2-10 A DAY. Even if you're on the low end of $2 a day... you're stll paying $60 a month! That can get you a bitchin' plan with unlimited texts, nights, weekends, and 600-1000 anytime minutes.
  • apersaud, on 10/10/2007, -2/+75Well its not NBC specifically, its anything tied to Universal (in this case NBC-Universal).

    Example, Universal Music Group, Vivendi Universal and NBC-Universal are all NOT renewing their contracts with Apple iTunes.
    (same parent company)
    • mastercheif, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10GE
    • sunchild, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Actually, you're wrong, but it's not your fault. Universal Music is owned by Vivendi Universal, which is the company created during the purchase of Seagram by Vivendi. NBC Universal was created by the sale from Vivendi of Universal Studios (not Music) to GE. It's not your fault this is confusing--whoever was in charge of branding these companies was just begging for people to be confused about this.
    • ghuytro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0This is all due to some dumbass MBA who got McKinsey & Co. for $250k to do an analysis of how Universal could unlock the financial "synergies" of their vast media catalogue.
      The first draft of the report came back suggesting they do late-night infomercials touting VHS box sets of Joey re-runs but the astute Universal executive shot that one down pretty quickly.
      This was plan B.
    • cgomez, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2All subsidiaries of the Shinehart Wig Corporation.
  • bwayne1, on 10/10/2007, -9/+315I think I enjoyed Engadget's recap the most:

    NBC: Ok. So. We'd like to re-negotiate our contract -- top priority is, well, basically we want more money.
    Apple: No.
    NBC: No what? No re-negotiation? Or no more money?
    Apple: No.
    NBC: Why don't you guys just charge more money for our shows? That's fine by us.
    Apple: Are you new around here?
    • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -64/+6Engadget blew a perfectly good opportunity to bash Micro$oft as well. Since they failed to report the other half of this story that this content is all now available on xbox.
      • monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -7/+26M$TROLL
      • mikalveli, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4How much is Microsoft paying you? You have posted 5 or 6 comments sucking their *****.
    • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -17/+5Yeah..this is all becuase Apple is trying to keep costs down. Because they really CARE about the customers.

      (It is sad how far Apple fanboys have let themselves slip away from reality. Steve Jobs would stop on your dying body if he saw a shiny nickel lying next to you.)
      • sv650touring, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Whether Apple cares about you isn't as important as how they benefit you. Some people have trouble believing that a company as small as Apple can exert such influence on such major industries as computers and entertainment, and so you post idiotic, point-missing comments like that.

        And while Steve Jobs wants Apple to be a success, there are things he cares about more than money, and history has proven it.
      • bobcatred, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Apple is a corporate entity, not a person. No matter what they tell you, a corporation can't care about you beyond how much money you spend with them.

        Apple, however, is smart enough to realize that their customers are not going to pay just short of $5 for a low-res version of a single episode and are fighting to keep the price reasonable to the consumer so that we will continue to spend our money with them. The heads at NBC/Universal/whatever, in this case, are making a greedy and ill-informed decision that in the end wouldn't benefit Apple or NBC.

        Being so anti-apple that you have to slam them even when they're doing something that would benefit consumers makes you just as bad as the fanboys.
  • moisie, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11Not that I can buy NBC shows in the UK, but, I wouldn't mind if there was a competing service that was anyway near being as convenient and as easy to use on my machines than itunes is.
    • getatmedigg, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1TVrss
      • moisie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1As if I would ever take advantage of such a site to download multiple shows months in advance of when I could watch them in the UK and then store them on multiple external drives for future viewing.
  • JohnQPoster, on 10/10/2007, -3/+22How do we let Universal know that we are displeased with there choice. Does anyone have an email address for these guys. I think it is important to let them know we are unhappy. At this point I will stop watching there shows all together.
    • Mcwop, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13Universal does not care. The old media companies do not have a clue.
    • pinchduck, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Vote with your wallet, just don't buy their shows.
    • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -10/+0Stick up for Apple! We must savce Apple! (You are EXTREMELY pathetic. Your life is very, very sad. Do you realize this?)
    • buddhistMonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Try these:
      Amy Zelvin, NBC Universal Digital Media Communications, (212) 664-7436
      Joe Libonati, NBC Universal Television Group Publicity, (818) 840-3050
      • danielwsmithee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3amy.zelvin@nbcuni.com & joe.libonati@nbcuni.com
    • apotropaic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1They do have a clue though... they can totally make it without itunes. C'mon, everybody knew sooner or later people were gonna catch on that there is nothing special/great about itunes!
      • JohnQPoster, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0This is how I view their shows. Why would a company hurt there customers and remove a source of revenue. If it were not for iTunes I would have never seen The Office, Heros, or Battle Star.
  • obeezy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+22NOOO. I live in Japan and iTunes is the only way for me to get most TV shows. I NEED The Office. Hopefully they get something settled.
    • lava, on 10/10/2007, -1/+67Just get it from here: http://thepiratebay.org/search/the%20office%20season/0/3/200,600

      I'm sure that since you're living in Japan you can use your megafantabulous ridiculobit connection to get it all of the episodes in like, minus 5 minutes. Heck, that's how I get all your country's stuff. And it's not like NBC's going to sue you.
      • schlongmeister, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6The Pirate Bay is a great torrent site, but I'd recommend acquiring US TV shows from http://eztvefnet.org/frontpage.php
      • fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Considering that most of the seeds would be in the US, even an ultra-fast connection would not work to well overseas.
    • plbland, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26I'm sure The Office is available _somewhere_ on the internet...

    • thingamagizmo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I have the same problem, I go to school in Scotland. Send them a letter or an email, I know its not much, but they may just be completely ignorant of the fact that the only way I'll watch their shows is through iTunes, or if not, just watch them for free online. Why alienate steady customers?
    • dvddesign, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4obeezy

      I have a friend who lives in Yamagata. Torrents and eMule are your friend. I don't think Japanese ISP's are as bad as they are here since most Japanese people are using, winMX, I think for their file sharing. He's been doing torrents just about since he's lived there and never had an issue at all.
    • yabos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5USENET. Cheaper if you watch a lot of shows($15 for unlimited downloads for me) and better quality(usually HD) than the iTunes videos.
    • mulletman1234, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sling Media is saving my life in Ireland.
    • OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2The American version of the Office is terrible!! Original UK one is much better, although they don't make new shows anymore.
  • Bricks, on 10/10/2007, -5/+163Dear NBC:
    Your antiquated model is rotting beneath you. We all understand what its like to worry about the future, but being incapacitated by it will solve nothing. Embrace new distribution paradigms, or we'll gladly let you die with your joke of a model.
    Best Wishes,
    Your customers
    • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -22/+4They are embracing the new paradigms and letting the old ones die. They are moving all their content to the xbox and ditching iTunes
      • monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11M$TROLL
      • Dugg2Death, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Because, it's obvious that more people have an XBox and want to pay to watch media through that system than have multiple computers, use iTunes, and want to watch media on their PCs right??? right??? *chirp* *chirp*
        • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2So watch it on the NBC website then. Whoops guess you didn't shut me up after all di-ja?

          Right??? right???
          • mikalveli, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2How much is Microsoft paying you? You have posted 5 or 6 comments sucking their *****.
        • geoken, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2wait, are you actually trying to say there are more people who wan't to watch media on their PC than people who want to watch media on their TV? I find that pretty hard to believe.
      • mikalveli, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5How much is Microsoft paying you? You have posted 5 or 6 comments sucking their *****.
    • Enuratique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5They are at least thinking about the future but they feel like they don't have to use iTunes to do their distribution for them. They're getting greedy and assuming that people will use whatever service to get NBC shows/content. The flaw with that logic is that shoppers are fickle and don't want to have to have accounts at 20 different online stores - especially if the format is not guaranteed to work on their iPod. My advice to NBC/Universal is would be to suck it up, Nancy. iTunes is here to stay whether they like it or not and part of the reason why it is so widely used is because Apple specifically frowns upon bundling of crap. Get used to that model, assholes. I agree with the posts above about DVRs and BitTorrent having the ability to show NBC that playing by Apple's rules and getting some money is better than getting nothing at all.
    • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1Not dealing with a corrupt company like Apple is not shunnning the future.
    • apotropaic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Damn.. you don't get it do you?! Apple fanboys think just cause they are leaving itunes they aren't embracing the idea of new distribution methods! NBC will be offering their shows online, just not with Apple.
  • madskjaer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20Damn... Now I won't be able to watch the second season of Heroes in Denmark with the gift cards i bought in the U.S.
    • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -23/+1Consider it punishment for the way the EU dealt with integrated Microsoft media player. Maybe next time Europe won't move so swiftly to stifle innovation.
      • monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15M$TROLL
      • r3zonance, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Europe actually stifled vendor lock-in and anti-competitive practices.
    • LotsOfLayne, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Didn't you read the article, they said that their previous contract runs through 2009, so NBC can't change anything until then. So you are safe until then.
  • MacintoshSauce, on 10/10/2007, -2/+54They will come crawling back to "The Steve."
  • dinkola, on 10/10/2007, -2/+36Hold on a sec. The title of the article in the papers says that NBC are going to end their deal with Apple, then the article says
    "The two companies could still reach an agreement on a new contract before their current deal expires. While each side has so far refused to budge, the talks will continue and have been free of acrimony, the person familiar with the matter said."
    So, in actual fact they havent decided yet. Which one is it? Great newspaper releasing here-say, where you end up more confused of the facts.
    • avantgardener, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6*ahem* hearsay 0:)
      • dinkola, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Bloomin digg spell checker changed it to here-say and I stupidly agreed. Im going with my gut feeling next time.
    • SouthsideIrish, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There will be a deal but it will be month to month.
    • HeatVision, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6In the article it states that the contract Apple has is that they need to be informed at least 90 days before the expiration date of the contract, otherwise it would auto-renew. This is just a bargaining tactic, I can't see NBC walking away from iTunes or their shareholders being happy if they did.
    • fribhey, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1apple is pulling all of the NBCs off of itunes in september:
      http://playlistmag.com/news/2007/08/31/itunesnbc/index.php

      from the article i just linked to:
      "Apple said Friday that it will stop selling NBC Universal television shows through the iTunes Store. Apple said it’s doing so because NBC wanted Apple to “pay more than double the wholesale price” for each NBC TV episode, which would have upped user costs to $4.99 per episode, up from $1.99 presently.

      Apple’s statement confirms an earlier report posted by the New York Times. Apple’s timetable for removing NBC Universal content from the iTunes Store is considerably sooner than what the Times speculated, however. Apple said it plans to drop NBC shows in September.

      “Since NBC would withdraw their shows in the middle of the television season, Apple has decided to not offer NBC TV shows for the upcoming television season beginning in September,” reads a statement published by Apple. “NBC supplied iTunes with three of its 10 best selling TV shows last season, accounting for 30 percent of iTunes TV show sales.”
      • OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yea $5 episodes don't work for me either.
  • pxa270, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14This is just a bit of power play between BigCorps. The TV/film content providers have obviously seen how big iTunes has become for music, giving Apple almost all the negotiating power in online music distribution. So even though the TV/film companies are greedy for the cash that online sales may generate, they also want to prevent iTunes becoming too popular so that Apple can call all the shots like they do with music. That's why a lot of the film studio's haven't jumped on the iTunes train yet.
  • Linh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well, so much for that. I actually liked this method... albeit it should be in HD for the price. No torrents to deal with, no botched encodings (namely, cropped wrong)... and supporting shows that I actually like. They online streaming versions from the studios sucks.
  • ibeetle, on 10/10/2007, -7/+52NBC: We sell more video on iTunes than anyone else... we make millions.
    Apple: Yea.. it has been a great partnership.
    NBC: We want more money... millions are not enough... more... more... more... we want to raise the price. Now we have people hooked and they will pay any price we want to charge.
    Apple: NO! No, they won't. Video download makes money but raising the price is not the answer.
    NBC:Screw you Apple we will take our business elsewhere.
    Apple: Where?
    NBC: um.... well there... um... well there is URGE... and um... well we don't know, but we are sure there is someone out there that will let us charge $5.00 for the news or old repeats of Adam-12.
    • B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3Well no... thats not it at all. NBC wanted to charge a premium for HD content and they wanted to bundle whole seasons at a discount, like they do on the xbox.
      • HeatVision, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Do you not own an Xbox? They do not sell shows by the season on Live nor is there currently any content for NBC on Live except for the pilot of Heroes.
    • JavertHolmes, on 10/10/2007, -17/+22Or, another side of the coin...

      NBC: We noticed that you take a very healthy chunk of our profits just for the honor of hosting our content on your portal. We'd like to be able to raise our prices accordingly for high-demand episodes and lower them for episodes we think we'd barely able to sell.
      Apple: No, we must keep all rates fixed, that way, ultra-low-demand episodes will never be sold (even though they *would* sell for, say, $0.75 per episode) and ultra-high-demand episodes will sell like crazy without realizing higher profits.
      NBC: Why would you do this?
      Apple: Because no matter how belligerent we are in negotiating, zealots will rally to our defense. You can not win.

      See how fun it can be making up negotiation dialog?
      • Dugg2Death, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Or
        NBC: It's our content we'd like to charge 2x as much for the good episodes as compaired to the filler
        Apple: Interesting, well it's our distribution system that allows easy access to your content and we say all episodes will be the same.
        NBC: Fine, we'll leave for the XBox
        Apple: OK
        6 Months later
        NBC: Can we come back
        Apple: Sure
        • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1But the old stuff has been selling - music and video
      • gharding, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3NBC: Can we raise prices?
        Apple: Only if you suck my cack
        NBC: Dude. Gay.
  • JasonCox, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1Lets see, selling on iTunes and part of the profit goes to Apple; Or setting up their own cotent distro system and keeping all the profit.

    Which would you choose...
    • PhantomRogue, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Id choose the one that has the Millions upon Millions of people using the software. 2 Bucks an Episode. Sounds like a fair price. Its not like they are Losing money. Which would you choose... !1 buck per download or none from Bit Torrent and not having it downloadable at all. I know which one id choose.
    • monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i would choose the one that net the most profit for me. for the foreseeable future iTunes is going to be the best venue for making the most sales
    • ...---..., on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yep - iTunes is already the biggest name in the market and you don't have to invest in new network infrastucture to support a big surge in bandwidth. Even if they decided to do it all themselves - it's still going to be a more tedious process of navigating their web site and downloading. Then, if you want it on your iPod, worrying about proper format, re-encoding and then importing into iTunes and syncing with your iPod. All for more money too - I don't think so...
    • mstump, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1what's the name of their own content distro system? does it work with my iPod? does it have everything i want to buy in one place? is it time-tested? NBC is going to realize the PR disaster that they've created, and they'll sign up with Apple again before the current contract expires. at least, if they want this consumer's money they will.
    • r3zonance, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"Or setting up their own cotent distro system and keeping all the profit."

      Wouldn't NBC then have to pay the bandwidth costs, which would most likely eat into the profits, not to mention the cost of licencing some DRM and developing and implementing an online store to sell them.
  • MassiveTaTas, on 10/10/2007, -4/+31NBC = STUPID
  • DCUK, on 10/10/2007, -1/+127So they're moving back to torrents :)

    Nice one, much cheaper than itunes!
  • Dugg2Death, on 10/10/2007, -2/+23So, judging from the above comments.. I'm the only guy here who torrents an episode or 2 to see if I like the series then buys them for a small fee on iTunes if I do? Looks to me like NBC is cutting off their nose to spite their face with this withdrawal.
  • andyhuey, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5No second season of Heroes on iTunes, huh? Darn. I like watching it without the commercials, I don't mind paying for it, and I'm really not that interested in trying to pull down pirated copies via BitTorrent. Maybe I'll just wait for the DVDs!
  • mdoucette, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2It seems to me that referring to NBC Universal and Universal Music as "separate companies", while only referring to the parent company of the former and not the latter, to illustrate a growing rift comes across as at least a little lazy.
    • UMDirector, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2They are actually separate companies. When Vivendi owned the whole company they sold off all of Universal OTHER than the music group which is why Vivendi Universal still has the music.
  • NoahK, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Well that's stupid!
  • indyGuy, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4Most NBC shows were available on nbc.com last season. Sure, you can't download them (legally, from their site), but you can watch them for free.
    • smaier, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6True, but their web site sucks and you need a freaking internet connection to stream it. I want to be able to watch shows when I have no internet connection, like on a plane, etc.
    • chukd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2True but by watching the shows, you have to agree to them having the ability to search your computer for programs or material that can be used to violate copy rights or has violated the DMCA. No thanks, I don't use bit torrent, but I am not giving some company free reign on my computer.
  • JavertHolmes, on 10/10/2007, -6/+6These negotiations are moot to me anyway. I'm paying a physical-medium premium for something I won't be able to use in a few years.

    The quality of video and audio encoding is such now that if I were to pay for anything online, I'd want it in an open format that allows me to convert the video or audio to something else legally as time goes by. If I pay for something digital, I want to be able to use it 30, 40, 50 years from now.

    How many people are still watching RealPlayer 1.0-encoded videos? How many people are able to convert them over properly? How old is the RealPlayer 1.0 video codec? Less than 10 years. See the problem?

    As far as the article goes, how do you know that NBC didn't want to LOWER the prices on some episodes that they're having trouble selling in order to generate some revenue?
    • jttin, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3RealPlayer 1.0 is audio-only.
      Video is available on version 5.1
    • paulstringer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7QuickTIme still supports every original codec delivered in Quicktime 1.0, so. any QuickTime movie ever made still plays in every later version of QuickTime. I'm sure you'll be able to Watch MPEG4 H.264 video 10 - 20 years from now. No idea about Real1.1...
  • TDLA, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I am sure that NBC has a different plan for on-line distribution. Look for them to do a similar deal to the one that CBS & FOX did with AOL Video, YouTube and Yahoo Video, where they control the free, advertiser supported and pay per download versions of their content.
    • nephilimx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2They could proberly sell it themselves for half the price, I dont see the issue here
      Even google video service would be better, steam it... if u like it buy it, without DRM

      Funny how everyone blames NBC
  • Morky, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I love the brilliant marketing plans NBC has: charge more by bundling The Office and the 40 Year Old Virgin together. Not so smart.
  • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -13/+5its hilarious to watch the fanboys get worked up over this.
    • dvddesign, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2What fanboys? NBC or Apple? Are you sure you're in the right discussion?
      • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -1/+1why, what other fanboys are there? Apple of course. the original, and lamest.
  • n8gavin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9These greedy ***** only care about there bottom line so ***** em. I hope apple won't take them back when they realize that apple is doing all the leg work and has a built in market because of the popularity of the ipod. People will not go to 20 different places for content. Sound business decision.......douche bags
    • melonhedd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2what else would they care about?
    • fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Apple only cares about the bottom line too. And the bottom line is people don't use iTunes because of some allegience to Apple they use it for the content, which they'll follow if it it moves.
  • monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9they'll be back.
  • bmson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20Heroes...
    Back to torrent, sorry NBC no money from me.
  • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -8/+1never could understand why people will pay for this ***** when you can download the shows for free....i dont think i have ever been in a position where i had to absolutely watch a tv show right then and there on my cell phone. wait till you get home, download the show, watch the show. totally free. by the way, ive got a bridge i wanna sell, any takers? ***** suckers.
    • spazzcat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I wanted Heroes in HD, so I was going to download it for free it was a pain in the ass ....I gave up and just bought it from itunes....two clicks and everything downloaded.
      • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1"two clicks and everything downloaded." even the money out of your wallet.....
        • eatrains, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Ya know, for people with jobs $2 isn't that much money for an hour's worth of entertainment. You might want to check out that paper route in your neighborhood.
        • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -1/+1two bucks for a ***** tv show? screw that. download it at home for free. free > paying

          same with ringtones for that matter why the ***** are you gonna toss your money away for a goddamn ringtone when you can just make your own? they will sound better and you can edit which part of the song you want for the ringtone. and its safe to say that you're going to delete it from your phone eventually anyway. thats money down the toilet. that's exactly whats wrong with society today, gotta have the latest and greatest ***** and pay out the ass for it to be hip and cool. thats why apple is getting away with armed robbery for charging 600 goddamn dollars for a ***** cell phone.
  • readme, on 10/10/2007, -2/+26Universal is getting money-hatted by Microsoft to drop Apple and Blu-Ray.
    • drjones78, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Bingo.

      This is how MS is going to try and de-throne iTunes. Get all their content providers to pull their content. Exclusive deals are going to start being the norm as the portals try and shore up content for themselves and no one else.
    • bjkrautk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking about the Dreamworks HD-DVD payoff (and how NBC Universal has always been HD-DVD exclusive).

      Not only is NBC losing iTunes cash from me....but I'm not buying Heroes Season 1, since it isn't coming out on Blu-Ray (I own a PS3, FWIW).
  • 777twist, on 10/10/2007, -4/+20I'm about to drop my TV watching completely!!!!

    This is so ridiculous, networks are canceling shows before they are wrapped up (see "John from Cincy", and a host of others) and for polar opposite reasons... I heard "John from Cincy" was axed because it cost too much, yet HBO also canceled "Lucky Louie" which probably cost them a loaf of bread to make.

    Here is the problem I see with what NBC is doing (and the problem with others not joining Itunes in general). Most shows don't have any place you can catch an episode you missed!!! I bought 5 - 7 episodes of various shows because my signal or DVR crapped out and didn't record. Where do I get those now??? Sure that's not a huge take for these guys, but it's still money I spent to get the episode and further more, it keeps me happy as a loyal watching customer.

    Now, as for NBC... I have every episode of the Office on Itunes... I could always wait until it comes out on DVD (which I buy as well, but I like having the shows on my Ipod for emergency Office viewing...hehe, is there such a thing?), but I buy the full seasons. Now I actually do this for 2 reasons... ONE, to have the seasons on my Ipod. TWO, to show NBC that this show is great, no matter what Nielsen says.

    When the Office is on (not repeats) it rules the roost almost every week on Itunes... That should tell NBC something, and it shouldn't be telling them "well, we can make more money off this show because it's so popular." No, it should be telling them that this is a good tool for them to see which shows are good without the Nielsen Rating slant.

    I have a huge problem with Nielsen Ratings... first of off, in my 35 years of life, I have NEVER known one person to be a part of this system. How is that possible? Second, from what I hear, it's base is 90% families... Well sure, a bunch of christian families probably won't like "Lucky Louie"...but I can tell you this, all of my friends and co-workers from 25 - 40 loved the show, yet we aren't Nielsen families so we can't control things.

    No, we are stuck with lame shows that are supposed to be "wholesome"...gag!

    But hey, I'm about ready to cancel HBO (they are lucky "Curb" is starting up again...otherwise, they might be gone), and with the way networks keep canceling shows before they are wrapped up, I may go back to the way I used to watch shows...IN THE 3rd or 4th season. That's how I was in the past, I made sure a show survived before I watch one episode.
    • null537, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Jon from Cincy was cancelled because it sucked and no one watched it. They dropped Deadwood for JFC, because Deadwood cost too much, not the other way around, and people who liked Deadwood (and other other good shows that have passed) weren't too happy that JFC was what replaced it. It wasn't good for HBO as Cincy came right on the heels of the ending of their biggest show to date. Showtime has Californication which is hardly wholesome but a whole lot of fun, as well as Weeds, which is equally so. I wouldn't say move over, but I'd wait for some new HBO goodness (if it happens), Entourage is currently my favorite show on tv, and really Curb is the only other thing that's going for it.
      • 777twist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Well, to say it sucked and no one is watching shows me you aren't the brightest person around. One, because I said I liked it and I was watching...not to mention all of my friends and many co-workers. Are we a select few...maybe, but I would doubt it.

        The show had a twinge of LOST (another friend said it was just like Twin Peaks ...I never watched), but it had some good characters. Granted, I don't think people could relate to the characters...either they were too close to home (white trash, always yelling, drama, etc...) or it was just too far away from what they think can really happen (Rebbecca yelling was probably over the top to a lot of people) but I know families like that.

        Anyway, my point is...Showtime lets shows catch-on... Shoot, even Seinfeld took time to catch-on, why not give this show a couple of seasons. Or at the very least, why not have it in the contract that if the show needs to be dropped for whatever reason that a 2, 3 or 4 hour special will be done that will either air or just be a part of the DVD set. I can't tell you how bad I think more shows need to do this...I have had so many shows be canceled before they wrapped up the story. Just finish the story on DVD...I probably wouldn't have bought the JFC DVD, but if it came with the story's end...HELL YEAH I would!!!
    • joel8x, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Excellent post - I'm so tired of HBO canceling their good shows. John from Cincinnati was one of the best shows to ever air (and hands down the best opening theme song). I'm sure that nobody was watching it, because nobody talked about it except the lord Ron Bennington. I wish they gave it time to grow, because I'm sure people would have eventually picked up on it and it would have been a hit. The acting was too powerful and the story intriguing. They could have at least let it stay around for season 2. Same thing for Lucky Louie, as it was on the edge of being a great show (I think if they went to a second season it would have matured nicely).

      Not every show will hit the ground running like the Sopranos did, but at least give them some time to flourish. At least Rome had a chance to wrap up most of its story lines with a second season, maybe they should do the same with most of their shows.
    • joessandwich, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I wholeheartedly agree with you on the ratings. I just refuse to believe they're accurate. Then again.... the people in this country are not the brightest.....
    • SWiG, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My TIVO is part of the ratings system. They just called out of the blue one day and I said yes.
      • 777twist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0How are their ratings used?

        I see in Entertainment Weekly that they (not sure who they is in all cases) track Neilson stuff and DVR ratings...is that where the TIVO stuff goes?

        I just can't believe some of these shows have as hard of a time as they do... I also heard that Friday Night Lights was in trouble and NBC moved it's timeslot. That's another show I like...but I pretty much like any football shows....bring back Playmakers!!!
    • jorazzle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I'm a 21 year old college student, and we're a Neilson house. We get to spam up the ratings for BSG, Family Guy, Southpark...
      • 777twist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0GREAT... Love all those shows....

        Could you post a list of shows you watch so I can watch them...at least I know they won't be going anywhere (hehehe).

        I think it's great that you are a Neilson house and I didn't want to say that NO people my age or no college students, etc... weren't being chosen. It just seems like a majority of the homes selected are families. I just don't like the system, I would rather see a chip in every TV, VCR, DVR, whatever...that would give an accurate track on what's being watch and what isn't.
  • moonaust, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15Bit Torrent to the rescue........
    • 777twist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I tried to use this once based on a friend... But I couldn't get it to work, either it was way harder than using something like Emule, or it would download something that needed passwords.

      Is there a website that has good documentation on how to do this?
  • thatsiebguy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Meh.. I torrented my stuff anyway, no point in paying when I'm only going to watch it once (though I will agree iTunes has a great system). I always like how these big media companies get pissy when they can't set the price, which is the reason why no one buys their crap. Heaven forbid a company, who isn't even making a decent profit off selling their content, knows what the users will pay and how they want it tells them they won't increase the prices. Just goes to show you who cares about users and who only cares about profit. Their loss.. Expect Universal to post a loss next year...
    • Dugg2Death, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I dugg you down (I'm sure you'll return the favor) but here's why. I don't mind paying for the show, I really don't. I could torrent the entire season but, I understand that if I don't support the artists I like (the fee for iTunes isn't really much) then they'll quit making series I like. I don't have a tivo.. so my problem is that they try to tell me when I'm going to watch my entertainment.. that just doesn't fly with me. I don't mind paying for something I like, just don't try and tell me when and where I'm going to watch it.
  • juckru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1How do we let Universal know that we are displeased with there choice. Does anyone have an email address for these guys. I think it is important to let them know we are unhappy. At this point I will stop watching there shows all together.
  • Swift2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6You will notice, it's Universal music, and NBC Universal. What they want to do is control the price. The TV episodes are copy-protected, and $1.99.

    In both examples, they think their old ***** pricing models are superior as a way of extracting the last bit of profit. Hmm. I wonder what the new iPods will look like on the 5th. I wonder how well the new NBC/Fox website will do? Will I get there and find Windows media copy protection, that I can't use on a Mac at all? Where MSNBC threw its weight Microsoft for years, before they finally decided that Mac users were human too?

    NBC has always been the stranger, ever since Sarnoff stole FM radio from Armstrong. The whole industry was standardizing behind Betacam back in the '80s. Not them. VHScam, or whatever those wacko formats were -- and they stayed the only ones in that format.

    Well, best wishes. They're taking their balls and going home. Bye-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
  • frankzzsword, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0NBC: We cant go on like this
    Apple: No, We can
    NBC: Sorry steve, We need more money, Heroes also coming soon, How about you give us 20% more
    Apple: .................*pause* No
    NBC: Why don't you guys just charge more money for our shows?
    Apple: Sure
    NBC: So?
    Apple: So we get the profit? what bout you?
    NBC: What do you mean by that?
    Apple: Are you new around here?
    Apple: Are you new around here?
    Apple: Are you new around here?
    Apple: Are you new around here?

    NBC logged off
  • themisanthrope, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16I don't know, I smell a rat. A big, fat, influential "partner" rat that puts the MS in NBC, and makes many parts of affiliated websites work less than perfectly when the browser being used isn't Internet Exploder.
    • yabos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1MSNBC is/has gone away but I wouldn't be surprised if MS allows them to control the price on the XBox store. MS will do just about anything to get into the market including sacrificing what consumers want which is consistent pricing on each show. There's no reason one show should cost more or why you would have to buy a ***** show bundled with Heroes just because they can't sell the ***** show any other way.
  • serpicolugnut, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Hardly a surprise since NBC is just another arm of the Universal juggernaut. In the end, I think they'll open their own shop with Fox (what is it called, Huhu?), flounder for a couple of quarters, see that that big chunk of revenue they were making from iTunes sales are no longer there, and come running back.

    If you are a Shareholder in NBC/Universal, I would complain. Your company just cut off its nose to spite its face.

    Seriously, I just ditched my cable TV subscription and am now getting all of my entertainment pumped to my HDTV via the Internet. Most of it is through Torrents, but I was planning on purchasing a Heroes, Office, and Bionic Woman subscription from iTunes when the shows launched this fall. Not anymore.

    Viva le BitTorrent. Suck it, NBC.
    • GiantLeap, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Hey - idiot - Universal Music and NBC Universal are two separate companies. NBC (owned by GE) acquired Universal in 04. Get your facts straight.
  • joebogarde, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Anyone thinking they can circumvent the legal means of acquiring these shows now, should realize that at the Montebello meeting the Trilateral commission agreed to pursue anti-piracy concurrently in the legislatures of the the NAU members, create a new police body with powers of enforcement of the the joint agreements on IP issues, then regular meetings to discuss the issue. The agreement calls for Public Awareness campaigns to air across the continent paid for in partnership with private industry. http://www.spp.gov/pdf/leaders_statement_2007_english.pdf subsection on intellectual property issues (actually embedded hyperlink).
    They're building a special police squad, and I'm sure they'll be kicking in doors, and coming to a town near you soon.
    • null537, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Going to be hard to watch their adverts when all my torrents don't have them.
    • pacdude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1null537: iawtc
  • XStatic, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3Is NBC staying on Amazon Unbox?
    While the DRM for rentals sucks (24 hour rule that every download service has) purchases on Unbox are a reasonable deal. Especially since I can download straight to TiVo and portable devices.
    http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A16262841%2Cp_studio%3ANBC&page=1
    • MinnesotaTwins, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Except they don't work on my ipod, macbook, or mac mini connected to my TV. I like downloading from itunes and then having all of my videos with me everywhere. i can just connect my rca cables into a tv at a motel or on vacation and still have all my stuff. I do like being able to transfer stuff to my tivo though with unbox.
    • potterboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1FairUse4WM.
  • Buckeye70, on 10/10/2007, -0/+97In other news, all torrent sites have announced they will continue to carry NBC's shows.
    • OAKsider, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1...For free, in 720p or better and at blazing speeds (sometimes).
  • RobSaint, on 10/10/2007, -13/+5Oh well NBC, No iTunes? Hello Limewire...
    • null537, on 10/10/2007, -1/+24Limewire? You should just kill yourself.
    • subliminalurge, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1***** dude, if you're not going to find a good tracker and use bittorrent, then at the VERY LEAST ditch that Limewire ***** and move to Frostwire.
  • seneyr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Screw Universal. We all know next year they're going to claim sales are down due to "piracy". Way to shoot yourselves in the foot here.
  • bclingan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"The two companies could still reach an agreement on a new contract before their current deal expires. While each side has so far refused to budge, the talks will continue and have been free of acrimony, the person familiar with the matter said."
  • davidburns, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The fact is, once again, a large media company doesn't understand internet distribution. They aren't going to sell these TV shows without DRM, which would be the only way to get their content to that 80% of the market using iPods if they aren't to go through the iTunes Store.

    Its great for them to sell their content in more places. Look at CBS who sells their stuff on iTunes and Xbox Live and lets you watch it on their web site and on cell phones.

    Push the stuff through as many distribution methods as possible, don't alienate your customer.

    Shame on you NBC. You have 90 days not to ***** this up.
  • roynencore, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1NBC is still doesn't get the digital age. This action will increase pirate copies 1,000+ folds. If you can't easy put on your player to view at a fair price, their is someone in the world to make it easy for you to put on your player at pirate price which is free. Greed equals more Pirates.
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