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76 Comments
- bryguy000, on 10/12/2007, -16/+50That's a no-brainer
- brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29Microsoft is not innovating with Vista, they're playing "catch-up." It won't win over new customers, it will keep current customers from switching. It seems like there's a culture more of damage control than innovation by looking at their products.
- bradbeattie, on 10/12/2007, -11/+33I'd hardly call the WSJ "another blog".
- bjeanes, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24@BenDuffy. You make an excellent point. I am a recent mac switcher turned mac zealot/fanboy and i love osx, but you sure hit the nail on the head. people have got to get over themselves and get off their high horses because the truth is no system is perfect and no system can be used in EVERY situation. As anyone in the IT industry /should/ acknowledge, we all need to know how to use all of the tools in the trade, and know when to use which ones. What you use on off time (osx for me, windows/linux for others), is a matter of personal preference and that. is. it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@onionbomber666:
Well if Microsoft would quit playing bait and switch with the Vista feature set, we might get some kind of idea *why* people should upgrade to Vista. Imagine if Lamborghini did this.
"So this is the new Murcielago due out in 2 months. It will have a 600hp V12 engine, will be able to fly for short periods of time and have a force field to protect you from other drivers."
"The new Murcielago due in 1.5 months will not be able to fly."
"The latest Murcielago under development and due next month will not have the force field as planned."
"Lamborghini reveals the new Murcielago and shows off their new V6 engine with a whopping 220 horsepower. Air conditioning is optional."
Nearly all of the great end-user functions of Vista have vanished like WinFS. All we're left with is a marginally better Windows XP with some bling and every goddamn control panel and system config tool rearranged (again). - 5thfreedom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Everybody should always read the whole article before commenting. Unfortunately, that is rarely the case.
- jkoke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Yeah, I wish there was a way I could set up Digg so that I didn't see any of those annoying Apple-related stories. Oh, wait...
- JDoggqx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11You're supposed to read the articles!?
- miles01110, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12This article isn't even about the iMac. He mentions that he regards the iMac as the best consumer machine in one sentence, and doesn't back it up. Does anyone actually read the article anymore?
- unibomber999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12there are also a lot of new features to Vista that help sys admins with centralized management. Most bashers are completely unaware of the bulk of Vista improvements.
- willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8brstilson, what's the point? Microsoft does not make desktop computers.
- jonj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8wow, one sentence in an article can get Digg front page. amazing.
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm a Mac user and a fan of Apple computers... but I still think Walt Mosberg's a Mac fanboy...
Sorry no digg - robb.monn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9you astonishingly ill-informed to hold those opinions.
The GPU on the MacBook Pro (not the iMac) is underclocked for heat and power reasons, as are the GPUs on many thin or compact notebooks. No fire here.
There are two ways to run XP on an intel mac: in virtualization alongside OSX or in bootcamp, effectively using the Mac as a PC notebook. Parallels virtualization works great and has no driver dependencies at all, but has no 3d support. The first *beta* release of Bootcamp didn't support the built in camera and a few other things and had some issues with one model of iMac. The iMac issue was solved within days of it's report and Bootcamp supports *all* drivers for the Mac hardware at this point and has for some time .
Don't pee in the pool. - dreslimmul, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If your reading this comment, I'm sure you have read the other comments that say this title is misleading, and it is. It really has little to do with iMac G5 at all. Still, I'll play devil's advocate here. I have a first generation iMac G5 (no cam, no bluetooth, didn't have wireless card when purchased, 512 MB RAM) and I am currently typing this on my White Macbook. I love the laptop, but my desktop, let me go through my experiences with that thing:
I purchased my first-gen G5 for about $1600. I started using it and I loved it... for about the first month. Within 30 days it starts to overheat, and the fan noise starts. This isn't normal fan noise, the fans sound like they are trying to cool my whole room. I wish they would because the Mac is emitting heat at a pretty high rate, and within a 90 minute period of using it my room is 10 degrees hotter than normal. This is pretty annoying but I like the thing and after reading up on the fan noise, I find out it is pretty much all first-gen G5s that have the problem, I just let it go.
6 Months go by and one day my CD wont eject from the computer, I have to open it up to get the disc out (which isnt bad at all, it has 3 screws). It repeatedly does this, so I take it back to the Apple store to get it fixed, also not an issue, and they give me a new drive on the spot. While I am there I buy a stick of RAM (1GB) since the computer has slowed down considerably since I bought it (as many comps do, but the RAM was worth it overall) and I buy a wireless card, both of which I put in when I get home. I also buy the extended insurance since I have now spent about $1890 (RAM: $240 [overpriced] and Card: $50), which brings my total to $2090 spent on this computer in a six month period.
It doesnt end there. Thankfully, I had that insurance cause my power supply goes out 3 days after my limited warranty would have been up, so I pack it up and haul ass back to Apple Store. They can replace it but it will take 3 - 5 days. 5 days later I pick my computer back up (and get a mighty Mouse, since the one-click mouse has finally irritated me enough for me to spend another $50). $2140 and four 1-hour drives (2 back, 2 forth) to the apple store in an overcrowded mall. It was an expensive lesson - DO NOT BUY FIRST-GEN COMPS (one that I obviously didn't learn, since I bought my MacBook the first day it was out). If I waited like my friend told me, I could have a webcam, bluetooth, wireless card all built in for less money. Why did I buy a Macbook after such an experience with my first Apple. Personally, I love the OS, and Apple Customer Service is excellent, so long you have the insurance for it. My Mac is friendly when it comes to taking it apart (Still wish I didnt have to so often), and they are sleek and I like that.
Best desktop on the market? Probably not. I have a PC which I enjoy also, and I wouldn't put it under the Mac. Both have their problems and both have their uses. Im kind of an Apple fanboy, but im not blind to the problems of the Mac, and the newer ones have them to (luckily, no problems with my MacBook yet). You really have to experience both sides of it, Mac and PC, because who the hell is Mossberg and who the hell am I?
No Digg. - elondisc08, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3little bit of a misleading title there, in the article he talkes about macs for maybe a paragraph or two, while over 90 percent of its abouts windows computers.
- miles01110, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10@maris:
"XP is an awesome operating system and almost all of the mac features can be done one better with some third party software."
I really don't know where you're coming from. All of the mac features can be done better with third party software? If you're talking about the standard Apple-included software then maybe (Mail vs. Thunderbird, Safari vs. Firefox, and iChat vs. Adium come to mind), but in terms of the core OS features no third-party software app is going to do much improvement at all. - dohidied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My x1600 handles Oblivion just fine.
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"How is it apples fault that when u try to run windows drivers don't work?"
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's because Apple sells the software *AND* the hardware. I doubt you bought your computer from Gentoo, or that they promised the ability to run Windows on that machine. If you installed third party hardware in your Mac and bootcamp didn't support it that wouldn't be Apple's problem. - gropo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+51: One of the most highly regarded technology columnists in the US. Noob points: 1
2: Apple may employ a large degree of standard PC OEM components nowadays (as they have for the past 10 years in increasing capacity) but that does not make them a 'clone maker.' They still control certain designs such as the I/O bridges and EFI implementation. Noob points: 1
3: Most Mac OS X users don't consider the interface as something that needs to be 'tamed.' That's a Windows-beaten victim talking. Hundreds of UI customization tools exist for OS X from APE to shapeshifter. Noob points: 1
4: OS X has a fully comprehensive POSIX layer. Windows has a somewhat less comprehensive POSIX layer. Many Linux applications can be built directly in to OS X's X11 shell using GCC without need for code modification. Noob points: (hell, you deserve 2 for that one) 2
Total noob points: 5 - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7ACTUAL article title: "Advice on Shopping For a Windows PC -- If You Must Buy Now"
Lame Digg Mac Fanboy title: "Mossberg: Apple iMac is The Best Desktop Computer on the Market"
So freakin lame, ndm007 - smeager, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Well one could say the same about you and your technology opinions, I suppose. Walt Mossberg has had more influence on the technology world then you or I will ever know. I am pretty sure he has some incite on more things then you or I so I would value his opinion highly. He's been a technology columnist since the early 90's and has influenced the views of many about technology.
- Phyrefly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Then explain why Ubuntu users now outnumber Mac users.
My university decided it was a good idea to buy 20" iMacs for java labs... I dread going to those labs. I haven't had one single session where I didn't experience a major error. Plus, the money spent on one of these iPaperWeights could buy 4 to 5 Linux/Unix or WIndows machines. - donte, on 10/12/2007, -12/+15Take off the hard candy shell of the wall street journal and get to the chocolatey center... what do you have? The same repetitive list of points we've read in every mac blog on digg for the past year. I'll consider it a "news article" when there's some reporting... not just an aggregate of crap posted on 1074 different blogs on the net.
- jeberle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2His final advice seems a bit off. Get the faster CPU. Upgrading your memory 6 months down the road is typically easy, and a good play in terms of money. Upgrading your CPU? Often, this is not even an option. If it is, a standalone chip can cost close to the price of an entirely new box.
- smeager, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31. An IT Columnist for the WSJ since the early 90's.
2. Clonemaker or innovator is irrelevant. I look at it this way, it's not who does it first it's who does it right. Apple may have not been the first one to make the personal computer but they were the first to do it right. The same could be said about the DAP market and other aspects of technology.
3. (First let me say that I have all three major OS's in-front of me right now and use them everyday) Less useful, not in the least. I find, for the most part, that the OS X interface is very well thought out and intuitive. As for taming it, I'm not quite sure what you mean, but as stated above there are 3rd party applications that can add invaluable amounts of functionality to the OS that aren't already available by default.
4. Yes, I do. I run Inkscape, Gimp, OpenOffice, NVU, and a wealth of others using OS X X11 interface and a vast amount of software can be run using Fink. - dalewj, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7mosberg is a non-it person who writes articles for those bosses that walk into the IT office and say we need to replace all the windows machines with apple machines. Why? they ask? because i read it in the Journal, it must be true.
sadly Walt doesn't look at any of real parts of most of the products he talks about, he looks at it from the noob user level, which is whom he writes for.
So as a non noob, i ignore his articles when i read the journal, but i always read the headline to figure out what will be the hot topic at my client sites. - lumbergh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I know some of you kids are too young to remember but Walt Mossberg used to be an Apple BASHER. Getting that guy to turn his head around was a coup de grace.
I like Macs but underneath it all I just feel that any competition that a certified monopolist gets can only be good for everyone, so chill out, anti-mac-fanboi people... - SuperSunny, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5(Quote : what microsoft is doing with vista is trying to come up with something better than xp. XP is an awesome operating system and almost all of the mac features can be done one better with some third party software. I dont think catchup was what anyone was thinking of when they were working on vista.)
Nah, they can't be done better, I have tried myself. Back in the days when I wanted my PC to look like OS X, I'd try so many tools, almost everything availible (flyakite as my base). There were too many bugs and problems to even it out, and too many slowdowns as well. 3p software is horrible for that. From the look of it, they were playing catchup. RSS feeds in IE7, Gadgets, futurastic look, allowing the graphics engine to work with the main UI (like Quartz, and then like DX-Aero).
Don't get me wrong, I like Vista, but it doesn't really appeal to me because everthing on it besides the games I have done for one year already, using XGL/Beryl Ubuntu and my MacBook. - JMaelstrom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Umm, he says that Apple creates both the software AND the hardware. It's been quite a while since that is true... Apple machines aren't Apple machines anymore. They are a windowing manager sitting on top of standard PC hardware...
This writer is a moron... - Kiljoy001, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31. Don't know
2, it's not a fight to begin with. Microsoft uses mac books to test/demo vista
http://www.uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/06/6883/ or search google.
3.BS I use shapeshifter on my mac and I get all kinds of themes etc. I mean if your looking for a window manager replacement (ala Linux), you can do it, but involves lots of fancy editing, tweaking, and installing of various open source programs... all of which will take quite some time to get running smoothly, but eh - to each there own right?
4. see this:
http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php?phpLang=en
www.neooffice.org
Looks like a whole in your barrel^H^H^H^H^H^H^H argument there,
I think you better fix it. - chrisjscott, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Is it just me or is Walt Mossberg the biggest Apple b**tkisser in the world? It seems like every other "Apple is great" article we see is by this guy, to the point where he has no credibility in my eyes (and I'm a Mac user!).
- Twango, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Microsoft is not innovating with Vista, they're playing "catch-up."
And it's taking them *so long* to catch up. And the prices ... - aleahey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Agreed, I am already suspicious of WSJ tech columnists. I have yet to read an article that was actually of any substance.
- Twango, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It just keeps going, and going, and going...
- bushy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Can we please have an Opinion category?
- massysett, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Aside from the fact that the article is the usual Mossberg stuff (which is not terribly insightful) you're right, it isn't even about Mac. It's PC buying recommendations. Buried as inaccurate.
- flag564, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Dont worry. They usually roll out of bed in their parents basements about 10:30EST or so. They will see this story and will start modding down comments like it was going out of style!
Most of us will be at -30 by 1PM - kmgrant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am a Mac fan, but even I must call foul on this post to Digg. Almost the *entire article* is about advice for people buying new Windows PCs. Mossberg's Mac comment, despite being quoted accurately, is almost an aside in his write-up. A headline like this should point to something substantially related to the headline, like an extensive review of several computer systems where such a quote was the conclusion.
I'm already browsing Digg less than I used to, please don't ruin it further by posting bait. - numarc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2How is it apples fault that when u try to run windows drivers don't work? That makes no sense. Should I blame Gentoo for the fact the my on board video and audio drivers don't work?
- aleahey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I can explain it quite easily, Ubuntu is superior to OS X, and PCs are cheaper than Macs.
:) - Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You might have noticed that Car magazines don't dote on Toyota Camrys either. Some ***** is just plain boring, regardless of how many people use it.
- vbsurfer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I like boot camp.
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1... except that they don't. That's how it's explained.
- geoken, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@ propfrogs
"Nearly all of the great end-user functions of Vista have vanished like WinFS."
Why do people keep echoing this argument. First of all, as far as the end user is concerned, all of the functionality of WinFS is present in Vista although done through less desirable means (ie standalone file indexing). What other end user features have been lost?
I mean you talk about the end user, but WinFS was something going on behind the scenes and not visible to the end user. Everything the end user would have saw as a result of WinFS has been reproduced without needing WinFS. It seems to me that all the WinFS jargon is bieng spewed by people who don't know to much about it's original intent and are just repeating what they've heard others say while bashing Vista. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Title to the article is INCREDIBLY misleading. This is the usual Mac Fanboy Propaganda that you see on Digg. They really need a "Buried as Mac Propaganda" option here.
For now....buried as lame. Let the flaming commence! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1robb.monn -bwahahah. Don't piss on yourself. I have an intel imac and it is underclocked exactly like the mbp and mb. Both the core and ram are underclocked 30% for heat only. Has nothing to do with battery life and never did. Everything to do do with heat management to compensate for the faulty design of all three. The imac sux specifically because it is a laptop on a stand. It has laptop ram, laptop hd, and laptop integrated gpu (except the top of the line). "effectively using the Mac as a PC notebook" bwahahhahahah. Not even close. Have you even used bootcamp? Driver support sux - and I ain't just talking about the isight - moron.
Go into device manager and look for yourself. An imac running bootcamp is far from a pc machine. If you believe this, you have never owned a pc. - whiteguysamurai, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3...With people unconcerned about cutting edge hardware.
- Kiljoy001, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Bah, if you even read the article it you would have immediately noticed that he spends the least amount of time talking about macs and more time talking about what to look for when buy a new computer (PC) now for vista. In fact he isn't really recommending them all that much - it's more of a "Well, if you decide to look at apple macs, don't worry about leopard like vista, it's not the same. And overall, iMacs are the "bomb" (most likely value wise)."
Don't just down the guy just because he isn't talking about the finer details of various components of the computer platforms in question. If you wonder how most folks read about computers it's articles like this that are more likely to be read by public at large and memes repeated mouth to mouth, person to person. His commentary was fairly balanced, and he gave his two cents about what he thinks is best deal. Cut the man a brake, jeez. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2"How is it apples fault that when u try to run windows drivers don't work? That makes no sense. Should I blame Gentoo for the fact the my on board video and audio drivers don't work?"
No, you should blame the manufacturer. But AFAIK Apple DO manufacture hardware too! :-P -
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