What is Digg?Sponsored by Activision
Band Hero view!
guitarhero.com - The biggest event music event of the year is now in your living room.
95 Comments
- projectducky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+88The clear answer: Whichever you prefer.
- itistoday, on 10/12/2007, -8/+34This is a really really silly article. I thought it was basically accepted dogma in hollywood that FCP beat out the competition in both features, price, and usability. I have personally used both FCP and Adobe Premiere (its only real competitor, Avid, is way too expensive), and in my opinion, and the opinions of many other professionals in this field, FCP wins hands down. I hope I don't come off as an Apple zealot, it's just that FCP really is that good; Adobe had to completely rewrite Premiere from scratch with the latest version because they realized how crappy their original version was. For more info check out these video "quick tours" of Final Cut Studio:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/quicktours/
And since when was the G5 slow? In its day, and even now, the G5 is a formidably fast processor, especially when you have 4 of them in one machine. - robzepeda, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26At this point, its like asking what animal is better: a Camel or a Shark? They both live in the jungle so who cares?
- Matrixsjd, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31fast hardware?? excuse me, my G5 is fine for video editing.....it's fast.
- FooledByRamen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23This is purely opinion. I expected some sort of benchmark test or something scientific to back up the headline, but all I got was some John Doe telling people that Macs are cooler. As stated by some other comments here, it's really just as plain and simple as whatever you are comfortable with. PC's are both cheaper and there are more options, and Macs are pretty, more secure (arguably) and Final Cut Pro is a great software package.... but honestly, every piece of software does the exact same thing as the next, it just has different ways of doing it. The same goes for audio editing, ie. Pro Tools is NOT the only choice anymore. These days, there are a plethora of choices, and in the end, the winner is you.
- olliewager, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25Neither one of those animals live in the jungle.
- ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18As an editor on both Mac and PC, it is really about your workflow and personal preference. Editing is an art of organization and creative thinking - whatever program lets you be create and functional is the program for you.
- Rice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15This article is trash, but these are good comments.
Dugg. - Alegis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15African or European shark ?
- birch25, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16ah, i hear that story so often from people who spend real time with a mac. i was forced to spend a good deal of my last semester using nothing but windows machines. let's just say it didn't convert me the way i have seen the mac convert others.
- JimmyDushku, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Since 1998 I was a windows based editor, but since Jan. 2006 I saw the light and switched. Never will I look back.
- birch25, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17agreed. if a quad 2.5 GHz G5 (we're talking basically 4 2.5 GHz processors in one machine!) isn't fast, i don't know what is. i know there are faster machines now, but that sucker still flies.
- Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"any dual AMD machine will beat a core duo box senseless."
No it won't you ignorant fool, the Core Duo is neck and neck with the X2, even beating it sometimes. - dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8mrmidgetman : DV Guru is not an "other mac fanboys' pages", have you looked at the rest of the site? Have you watched their video-podcasts? It was one of the first places I'd seen Sony Vegas, which is a PC only app. If you look at the current home page, there is one Final Cut story/article thing, and the Mac vs PC thing.. I fail to see why you used the "apple fanboy" argument...
Anyway, I've used Final Cut Pro, iMovie, Premire, Vegas, Windows Movie Maker (A tiny bit anyway..), Avid Free DV..
WMM : Works, nothing special
iMovie : Again, works, nicer UI than WMV (like quite a few of the OS X programs)
Premire : Really needs a complete overhaul.. I've not used the most recent one yet (Tried the trial, but it crashed trying to load a multi-camera gig thing, on several machines). It's reasonable, but it's getting kind of dated
Avid Free : Horrible to use I found
Vegas : Has some really nice features, like being able to play back a section and move clips etc around, and nice ways of applying filters. Being able to use a second montior/TV as a fullscreen preview is usefull, and much simpler to do than on other software (Single button press), it's very.. different.. One or two problems I had, it was very slow importing footage (well, calculating waveforms for the audio mainly), and theres no built in multi camera editing (theres plugins that add it though, but they aren't free)
Final Cut : Which is what I use, I picked it up with no training, tutorials, it's very easy to use/intuitive I went from using using PC for video editing to FCP easily (Despite disliking macs at the time), imported footage instantly, was fast, good colour correction, the chroma/luma keyer were pretty good, on a dual-G5 2GHz with 1GB RAM I've never had a problem with slow down (it plays back heavily filtered multi-layer sections slowly, but it still plays them back), and I've never had it crash. On a iMac G5 with 512MB RAM, it performs great, never crashed, the real-time playback isn't as good as the G5 tower, but it's still reasoanble.
Only problem I've had is the realtime audio playback isn't there, you HAVE to temp-render the audio, and if you do anything other than adjust the sound levels, you have to rerender, which can be very annoying
In short, I think Final Cut Pro is great on Mac, and Vegas on PC. With you'd use it down to personal preference.. Despite the fact I don't really like OS X (for things like internet, IM etc), I prefer Final Cut..
But really, not to sound like the "apple fanboy" mrmidgetman hates to much, Macs were always built around audio/video, and to be honest, Final Cut, Motion and DVDStudioPro are the best combination of software for doing stuff like that, since it's all made by the same company (even the OS), they work together nicely.. But, again, it's all personal preference..
- Ben - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I agree, Matrixsjd. I cut with FCP on a Dual 2GHz G5 and I have no problems whatsoever. No doubt I will be buying one of the Intel based Mac towers down the road but I'd be purchasing a new machine down the road anyway.
Something that many people fail to understand about why Apple moved to Intel (and it's Apple that has said this, I'm not just pulling it out of my butt). The change wasn't made because the PowerPC was slow and the Intel chips were fast. But rather because it was clear that making the PowerPC any faster wasn't going to be a priority for the chip maker. The G5 chip of the past two years is certainly in the same class as the Intel chips of the past two years. However, while Intel had faster chips in the pipeline for the future (that future being now and beyond), IBM and Motorola did not. So Apple decided to make the move and I think it was a good idea. That fact doesn't make my current G5 Mac any slower, however. :) - uppedbyhiggins, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Dear sir or madame,
I noticed your comment decieves people into thinking that tools don't matter as much as the job being done with them. I would like you to demonstrate this, by editing shrek three with windows movie maker.
Best of luck,
uppedbyhiggins - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I don't know if this was intentional or not, robzepeda. But that's easily the strangest analogy I've seen for a long time. It reminds me of the kind of stuff my stoner friends would come up with in high school.
By the way, I'm not at all poking fun at you (well, maybe a little). I really do like it. :) - heinousjay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Because poorly written fanboy crap is what the internet is all about. Otherwise, you'd have no reason to feel superior, and we wouldn't want that.
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"uhm, so what's the 3ghz triple core PPC doing in the xbox 360?"
I love macs and PPC, but the 3Ghz chip in the 360 isn't a FULL PPC chip. Most of the stuff that makes the PPC a fast and awesome CPU has been cut of the Xbox chips to bring the heat down and get the speed above 3GHz.
There is no Branch Prediction Logic for one, so all the instructions have to be fed into the CPU in order of execution. Aparrently, that's good for writing well optimised games. - nogami, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I had to laugh, this is about as undocumented and biased an "article" as possible.
The fact of the matter is that whatever gets your project finished, and gets you paid is the platform you should use. There are compelling reasons to use both Avid and FCP. People who plan to make a career of editing need to know both, and be able to edit on both platforms. If you are an editor who only edits on the platform of your choice, and only uses the software that "you" prefer, you're going to be working less than someone who knows and can adapt to both.
(Incidentally, Avid has a near-absolute lock on high-end film and video post, and FCP is widely used for music videos and commercial production.)
I'm questioning why the poster above calls Avid Xpress Pro garbage... I'm editing a weekly 1/2 hour TV series on it and getting paid $425 a day - and I have very few issues with the system, it allows me to finish my work quickly and easily (shrug). - happyfundave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6shark.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"My G4 is fine for video editing."
Go encode a movie and come back and tell me that. I have a G4 iBook and it can take 5 or 6 hours to encode a DVD, especially if transcoding is neccesary (which for me is often, because my "camera" (digital camera w/ video recording option) only records MPEG-4 movies). I admit I never really have a purpose to do heavy editing (though I work on applications that do), but if I ever had to, I would never even consider it on a G4 or below. The good ol' days when those processors were blindingly fast has been overpowered and overshadowed by PC processors like the Pentium 4, Athlon XPs/64s, and now the Core family. - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7There is no "industry standard" officially - but it's more standard than the rest...
- donatj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This doesn't even diserve to be called an article. Its just "I like macs, blegh"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4ubuntu ---What the hell are you talking about.....??? Are you wasted??
- SystemError, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5As a broadcast professional who uses a wide range of tools from Mac to PC I prefer FCP. I can run it on my PowerMac or take it in the field on a PowerBook. It works with all the formats I need to and I can't wait to start using XDCAM HD with the new Apple/Sony integration. It just keep getting better and better.
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10it's going to take a lot of effort to get me to swap from sony vegas video (by far, the least professionally accepted NLE mentioned here, but by far the easiest and most user friendly package for video and audio editing i've ever used). It's sad when the industry tells us to use poorly written applications like avid (which is a ***** joke), and premier. I'm willing to give FCP a shot though, but i really do not have high expectations, despite what people are saying.
i do however agree with what people are saying here. There is not BEST, only what is RIGHT for you as an editor; which you can get to grips with to produce your vision. - jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5if you can use avid, that's great. What's better for you is the fact that people coming from intuitive editing applications, like FCP, and sony vegas find avid nigh on impossible to get to grips with - which means they'll probably never use it.
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6uhm, so what's the 3ghz triple core PPC doing in the xbox 360?
also, power and heat was, i think, more of a contributing factor, with cost(, and no doubt a nice hefty discount on intel's part, for signing exclusivity) factored in as well, but to not such a large degree. - happyfundave, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6While i do agree with the article i feel that it was horribly written. He comes off as a fan boy without any evidence backing any of his claims one way or another. Why was this even posted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is not an Avid vs. FCP war. And just because Avid has entrenched itself in broadcast does not mean its better. But Alas I digress. The War here is Mac Vs PC. from a hardware standard now that Apple systems can run full blown Win XP software wise the Mac Platform Wins. And in direct respoce to the "PC has more hardware" where did you come up with that bull.... Up until the support from Voodoo/Bluefish and AJA and Blackmagic the Windows Platform on had Avid as a SDI solution. Yes there were truevision boards and Targa 3000's. But where are they now. Plus I worked o those systems they were a Beast to keep up and running the PC platform was totally the wrong way to go. The Mac has done quite a bit to help the Video editing world. One shining upstart in the software area is Vegas from Sony. It totally goes against and breaks down all the editing walls that have been put up by Avid. Avid is not the best its just the most popular.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Avid is the legacy abomination"
I started in print, then moved to video media and now do a bit of everything. Coming from a former Avid AND Quark user, I share your pain. People use Avid (as print people did Quark) not because it's particularly good at what it does, but because they're trained to use it, comfortable using it and because everyone else is using it.
From editing to color correction to titling to audio to user interface to price, Final Cut Pro absolutely blows away Avid Xpress. It's far and away the best digital NLE I have ever used. When you realize you can get the superior editor plus an entire suite of programs in Final Cut Studio for the price of Xpress, I don't see how you can ever go back.
I hate to come off as a sycophant, but it's really that great of a program. - phucku2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I didn't read the article, but the comments are not bad. It's slowly becoming a bit more like slashdot here, but the moderation needs more work. I'm in two minds about the one level replies - trees can be tiresome - one level is limited but has more of a room full of people talking about one subject feel about it, whereas trees are constant digressions.
But back on the subject: FCP is like all Apple products, design and polish. Avid is the legacy abomination and Adobe Premiare the mediocre Windows showing. I actually think everything that comes from Adobe is pretty ordinary. Their user interfaces are poor and there's a lot of rough edges. - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10My G4 is fine for video editing.
- Brodan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Now that Mac Finally uses Fast Hardware....you are kidding right? Who made the first PC that was consider a super computer? Apple.
- joeshlub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3That article was completely worthless. "Well, if you like one better than that's the best one... I don't really have anything to back this up but do you catch my drift?"
- aywwts4, on 10/28/2007, -0/+2I edit all my videos in notepad.
- uppedbyhiggins, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Avid is available for Mac OS X. And to get technical, iMovie is another 'editor' (not to be confused with anything near a professional editor, just the real basics, and cheesy star swipes).
Also, Vegas? Are you serious? No, really, go to any professional editor and ask them how often they use Vegas. Rate their laughter from 1-10. 1 being a smirk, and 10 being the laughter produced by asking someone if they use Sony's Vegas as a professional editor.
Alright that was kind of harsh, my apologies. - KyleMistry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Anecdotal evidence. Oh, joy.
- Rsulliv1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Importing clips (not capturing) in FCP takes seconds.
Importing clips (not capturing) in Avid (cheapest non-free version.. forgot the name) took hours (edit: decent sized files, not -10Mb). I don't know the specifics, nor will I look them up now, but importing content into Avid took forever due to some immediate converting that always occurred.
That alone was reason (for me) to loathe Avid. In any case, as with most programs, the GUIs are quite similar across the line. If you're suave in FCP you should be able to sit at a (basic) avid or premiere pro setup and get the job done. - danglerman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here's the thing, Final Cut Pro is probably the most SOLID editing program, but usually a year behind on certain technologies. Where as Avid is the leading edge for new technology, but it is not always solid. You can always go with lower end editors (such as Sony Vegas 6.0) and they are still very powerful. As far as the Adobe Production Suite, you can't run them on AMD processors (except After Effects 7.0) and the interface pretty much sucks. Premier Pro 2.0 has the WORST interface in the history video editors. Exporting from the Adobe Suite is tedious and hard to master good formats to get good quality. One more thing about Final Cut Pro. In order to run Final Cut Pro 5.0 SMOOTHLY, you have to have a VERY powerful computer (Quad 2.5GHz 4GB RAM) You can run Adobe on a mere 1GB 2.8GHz. Remember, Macs are expensive, you might get a rock solid video program, but you'll be spending a lot of money, especially if you're editing HD.
- turntabletux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I would hands down say Mac. I don't own one, but my good friend does. When I see him use it for video editing I'm blown away on how clear and clean it is. It's so fast too.
-Ant - chasemar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Funny, an old Mac costs less than a new one, and the new ones are faster. A better analogy would be that you have to buy all new accessories for your new vehicle. Wait, that's pretty normal. Please make sense.
- DanielKongos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3From what I understand, and take my opinion with a a grain of salt, Avid is still the industry standard when you're dealing with film, but FCP is making a lot of headway with anything digital.
- ThugEsquire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I totally agree with jrbrewin: Sony Vegas is by far the easiest and most intuitive of the fully-featured and powerful NLEs out there. I've used Avid, FCP, and Premiere (in order of decreasing familiarity), and for the PC, nothing beats Vegas.
I may purchase a Mac that runs a Conroe-based processor and boot into Windows to use Vegas, but more likely than not, I'll stick with a Conroe-based PC. FCP is a great program and really powerful, but it just doesn't make as much sense as Vegas.
As for Avid, I'd like to call it "a ***** joke," but it's so ingrained in the video and film industry that I can't go that far. Unfortunately, it requires so much procedure (have to memorise several series of clicks in order to do anything) that it's cumbersome to use. It certainly isn't as well designed as FCP (which isn't designed as well as Vegas), established marketshare aside. In fact, if Avid hadn't been so widely adopted back when it was one of the only systems available, I'm sure it wouldn't be as popular as it is today. - uppedbyhiggins, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7I haven't worked with the high-end Avid application, but I have used the express pro version, or whatever it's called (buzzword suffix).
It is *garbage*.
I'm most likely biased, because I've been editing on a mac for a while now, but oh man...counter-intuitive is the essence of Avid. Unfortunately, it's the best PC based editor out there. I know guys that could fly through editing jobs with FCP, but when placed infront of Avid, it was like breaking their legs and asking for a marathon to be run. Well not that bad, and of course it's because they weren't used to the application, but still, the GUI is a wretched beast and this article is rubbish.
Also, this article goes to say that FCP is the industry standard? goo wah? I'm all for it, but I'm almost certain that isn't true... - kid_dynamite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Avid is available for OS X, but the last Avid/Mac job I worked on (about a year ago) was running OS 9! It seems that Avid is pushing Nitris/Adrenaline hard for Windows, and leaving the OS X version to flounder for no other reason than they don't want to sell hardware for their biggest competitor. It's a shame cause the wonk of Windows definitely seeps up into Composer.
Why doesn't Avid take a cue from Discreet and start putting together a Linux version, so they're not stuck trying to maintain a best-in-class product running on a C-grade OS? - rbvmusic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2FCP + Adobe After Effects + Photoshop + Motion ftw.
Premier has a horrible GUI (I haven't edited with avid or anything else since) and since you can intergrate adobe programs into fcp (using external editors and going to the "edit in editor" task in fcp) it increases your creativity even more. When working post on my projects, image manupulation is great even with just the basic filters. I haven't been trained for anything else than fcp but it's great for editing. - Rsulliv1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3
- computerdude33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1From what I've heard, the Windows version gets maybe 3-4 more fps. I use the Mac (with no WoW), so take it with a grain of salt.
-
Show 51 - 95 of 95 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is