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- nate85, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That article is pointless. Those new MacBooks are awesome.
No FW800? Who cares-all the devices work on 400, and an adapter cable is about 15 bucks. Even in the previous PowerBooks there was only one FW bus, so you aren't losing THAT much bandwidth. Stop whining.
No s-video? Again, who cares, you can get an adapter for 15 bucks.
No ***** modem, christ this is 2000 ***** 6, if you still use a dial up modem you are an idiot. I have been wondering why they didn't drop modems sooner, it is just an ugly hole in the side of my PowerBook. And what... what is that sound... Oh, it's a USB adapter.
So what Apple has done, is eliminated all the iffy features that only about 2% of the 2% of people who use Macs actually used, and made it cleaner looking for all of us. If you can afford the 'Book, you can afford the adapter.
Let's talk about the good things, wait... there are too many to make a brief list with.
*****. - Akram, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i think the author just bought a PowerBook G4 and is really annoyed so he is taking out all his anger :)
- super_structure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Not having a modem on a laptop is idiotic."
Remember when people used to say that not have a floppy drive on an iMac was idiotic? - oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Who wants to buy an external modem. I work in a corporate environment. Everyone, and I mean everyone, uses a modem now and again. Hotel broadband is spotty at best."
Who doesn't bat an eye at spending $2500 or more for a top of the line laptop but then turns aroud and complains at having to buy a $30 part? Especially a legacy part?
For the record, both my laptop's modems (built in) have never been used and I do a fair amount of travelling. It's too easy to go to a hotspot if your hotel has no access (wired or wireless). - error401, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"How I love articles that accuse chip manufacturers of "cheating" against benchmarks. Since most modern benchmarks consist of running typical high-end apps (Photoshop, Fireworks, Excel, etc.), cheating on these only helps the consumer."
TFA specifically mentions *synthetic* benchmarks, which are the non-application ones; like computing pi to 5 million DPs or whatever. The allegation is that Intel's C compiler (nothing to do with the CPU) takes shortcuts (I'm not too clear on the details, though I do remember hearing about similar things before; nVidia and ATI have both done similar things as well) when compiling the specific code (and only the specific code) used for benchmarks like SPEC. Because the only code that gets this custom tuning is synthetic benchmark code, and the highly-optimized version is substititued exactly (ie. it's not a general optimization) this is clearly cheating. It misrepresents the performance of the compiler (or CPU, depending how you look at it). - sinfony, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The Mac laptop that I've been waiting for is the one that gives me a decent product at a cost that isn't ridiculously out of proportion to the quality of what I'm getting.
- white, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3why would you want windows on a mac when you can have osx on a pc?
- oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The 15" Aluminum G4 is the perfect PowerBook; hard to beat. While the MacBook Pro is not quite on par with features, its still better than most of whats out there."
The "feature" that I care about is the speed. If it lives up to even a 2x performance increase then it will have spanked the G4 'book handily. Also, the possibility of a dual Windows and OS/X machine is one hell of a "feature" that I would even take a drop in performance to get! They dropped the modem because it's obsolete just like they dropped the ADB, SCSI, serial and parallel ports. If you really need it then a $50 USB dongle adds it back. It keeps the cost and the (much more important) RF noise inside the unit down.
FW800 never took off and most (all?) are also FW400 compatible. If there's enough demand, they'll bring it back. None of this is a deal breaker. They only had room for one connection and the FW400 plug is more common. The screen is very slightly smaller but WAYYY brighter! Good trade.
The only thing that has any real merit is the drop of DL DVD, and that may still show up since the units don't ship 'til feb. - knyghtfyre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@itchyfeet said:
"No FW800 is a serious "f*ck you" to professional / audio/video Users. I think Jobs is gambling that the yuppie "I don't mind paying 2000$ more for a shiny case" market is worth more than the professional "I will pay that much money because I need the features for my job"."
If you want a ***** FW 800 port get a G5 tower. Professional audio/video users tend to stay stationary while they edit there work. And how is the new mac "LESS". It's obviously a step forward for Apple, and it beats the F*CK outa the PB G4. - KilgoreCarp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11. Who really cares what the name is?
2. I'd take the power/speed increase over some slightly compromised features anyday.
3. There will be a more sizes and configurations in the future.
4. What do I care, I can't afford the damn thing anyway. - Technopope, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1shaka999 said: "For me most of the differences don't really matter. The one exception is the lack of a modem. Not having a modem on a laptop is idiotic."
And a floppy drive. Don't forget a floppy drive. ;-)
If you need a modem, buy an external modem. Most people don't use modems with the availability of wireless broadband. Apple seems to understand this, as they did the the demise of the floppy disk drive when they removed that from the entire Apple lineup. - Sublimefly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would digg this but someones in prepubescent girl mode. Its not the best laptop they have produced but it by far better then a dell. Also lets not make claims about the installation of windows that we have no clue about. Every other story is you cant install windows the next one up you can. Do you have one? No.................. Have you tried it on your buddies????? No.................. hmmm. Dammit No DIGG.
- Shultzman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't miss the parallel port, serial port, ISA slot, or the like. They were not easy to part with at first but we have smaller, faster, and better now.
Apple has dropped the items it feels are the least used and is focusing on tech that is dominant / emerging. Welcome to the ever changing world of computers... - felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@betterth:
Well, it took me a minute to let my eyes adjust to that seriously horrific website, but it seems like they have pretty good options on PC laptops.
I don't know which manufacturer you were choosing, but I don't think trying to match specs on paper is the whole story.
More RAM in the PC, so that's a plus. I doubt the Pentium M is going to keep up with the Dual Core processor in the Mac, but it's probably a good CPU nonetheless.
Bigger hard drive in the PC, so there's a check in that column.
geForce 6600? I don't know more details, but I'm guessing it's not going to be driving an external 30" screen at full resolution like the MacBook will.
USB webcam != built-in iSight.
I could start checking down the list of every difference, but that wasn't really sinfony's point anyway.
His(?) comment was "The Mac laptop that I've been waiting for is the one that gives me a decent product at a cost that isn't ridiculously out of proportion to the quality of what I'm getting."
You showed a good system at the same price as the Mac, which is arguably either equal, slightly better, or slightly worse than the $1999 MacBook. I'd say that is a damn strong argument that the MacBook isn't "ridiculously out of proportion" - it's exactly what sinfony claims to be "waiting for."
Though I doubt that would make any difference to sinfony, since his(?) statement seemed pretty much flamebait in the first place.
Oh well. Thanks for the link to the good laptop store anyhow. - oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"This guy is a tool he says that Motorola makes the G4 processor"
Technically, Motorola spun off it's semiconductor business and is now called Freescale. Freescale does indeed make the G4 processor (in cooperation with IBM). Many still consider Freescale to be Motorola, even though it's been over a year since it was it's own entity.
Who's a tool? - scr33d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*"ICBMs (Intel-chip based Macs, also iCBM)" Yeah, that's cute. Chip on the shoulder much?
*85-watt vs. 60-watt adapter. Hm. (Fractionally) larger and brighter screen AND a dual core processor. Hm.
*S-Video? Meh. FW800? Whatevah. Modem. Dude, bluetooth and a mobile. Learn it, love it.
*Visually Unimpressive. Not broken so they didn't fix it.
*No dual layer drive. So you have to spend a few more pence for another disc. Maybe they're keeping costs down or battery life up. It's a quibble.
This whole Internet thing really is laden with typing dogs, isn't it? (I wouldn't exclude myself... sometimes). - Kriz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1lame.
the writer assumes that just because the battery and adapter are bigger, the Intel CPU requires more power. Which is grade A bullplop. - ericd543, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This guy's Kool Aid seems to have lost its flavor.
- itchyfeet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0knyghtfyre - no aggression intended. I hope you can say the same. The PB G4 has a FW800 port, just so's you know - so with the MacBook, you pay the same price for effectively a crippled G4 with an Intel Chip. Wee.. To me, that's a step backwards, but (to use your language), your ***** mileage may ***** vary. As for Professional audio/video users stay stationary, yes we do, but not exclusively. Some of us have to be able to take our work with us, and the future of the industry is portability. If you don't believe me then try taking a look at the abundance of firewire/portable audio and video interfaces that have emerged in the last few years (Digi 002, Mbox, Motu 828, RME Fireface - should I go on? We would be here all day.)
The reality of the industry is that budgets keep shrinking, and studios are getting smaller and smaller, and ultimately, portable. A growing percentage of my clients want me to bring the work to their production office now, and it's totally possible with Firewire technology (and not as unreliable as flaky USB).
Finally : Shultzman - just how is dual layer burning capability "obsolete"? My G4 PB will burn Dual Layer discs. Your MacBook Pro that will cost exactly the same will not. So.. You're paying for... What? Exactly? The "Cheaper" Intel chip inside?
Jobs is laughing all the way to the bank on this one. I personally will wait for the next one, which will probably blow this MacBook out of the water and make anyone who bought one look like an idiot. - inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"$1,996.00
Display 15.4" WXGA LCD Display 1280 X 800 (which is less, yes)
[...]
XP Pro and even a USB Webcam, since the macbook has one.
It has s-video and a modem"
You're certain the components and quality will match that similarly-priced Mac, huh? You do know that Mac retain their value far longer than PCs. Why do you think that is? You are aware that Macs consistently stomp the competition in terms of reliability, hardware and customer satisfaction (not making it up... look at Consumer Reports.)
Add in all the software costs too. You gets loads of software preloaded with Macs. What does an average user do with a notebook without any software?
I'm not actually trying to argue with you per se, but rather pointing out that these comparisons are pointless. Apple has a far different philosophy about computers than most PC makers. They sell the whole package, the box, the software, everything. They also make sure the quality of the components are better than average. If you want something stripped down or cheap, you don't want a Mac. They don't do that. There are enough cheap PC makers out there already. Why would they bother? - itchyfeet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Shultzman and your ilk : You're still missing the ultimate point - you're being offered the LACK of all these features, at exactly the same price point. Shouldn't it be cheaper?
Not to mention the G4's will allow you to output that video to the TV screen in the hotel via S-Video. The new Mac won't. And you're paying for that privellige (?). Anyway your point is moot - Apple have done all the things you mention and more for years, it just took them putting an Intel chip into the machine for you to notice. I think that's the real coup that Jobs has pulled off here. The Macbook Pro is a "switchers" machine for those who haven't already.
(I am an "Apple fanboy" by the way, so no bias here) - stuartea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Other thought, Apple did drop Audio-Line-In on the original TiBooks, only to bring it back in later models.
- alphanuderek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@muikano
It has a DVD burner
@oepapel
SPECint_rate2000 / G5-10.2 / iMAC_coreduo 32.6 / MacBook Pro_coreduo 30.3
SPECfp_rate2000 / G5-13.0 / iMAC_coreduo 27.1 / MacBook Pro_coreduo 25.6
and if you put the MacBook Pro on your bare legs, you wont have to put aloe on them afterwards to heal the scars!
Movie=good Article=bad - itchyfeet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0No FW800 is a serious "f*ck you" to professional / audio/video Users. I think Jobs is gambling that the yuppie "I don't mind paying 2000$ more for a shiny case" market is worth more than the professional "I will pay that much money because I need the features for my job". I may be proven wrong, but I don't think the average joe public gives a ***** what kind processor is inside the machine, they will still go for the 1,200$ dell over the 3000$ Mac in a heartbeat.
Is it possible that taking the features out of the MacBook Pro is a ruse to get geeks and pro users to buy out the remaining G4 Powerbook stocks? Because if you look at it from a purely technical point of view, the feature set in the latest G4 Powerbook is better value for money (Intel chip or no Intel chip) to a professional user. Why would you pay the same for LESS? - Shultzman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I believe I am paying for:
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
667MHz frontside bus and main memory
PCI Express architecture
Up to 120GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with up to 256MB memory on 16-lane PCI Express
ExpressCard/34 slot
Last I checked, these are all new technologies that are not included in the Powerbook...
As for waiting for the next one... I can guarantee it will be better. Guess what, the next one after that will be even better. At some point you have to stop waiting and just jump in. I'm choosing to do it now. - Shultzman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use a Windows laptop. I am ALWAYS on the road. I never need a modem (Hotel ether, wifi, and quad band cell). I have never used an s-Video port on my laptop. I could care less about the name. I've never used Fire Wire 800.
I REALLY want a good media interface for hotel room media watching. I've had 3 laptops damaged (in 4 years) from people tripping on my power cord. I take thousands of digital photos every year and have always wanted iPhoto.
Old Stevie J gave me exactly what I wanted and I'm ordering my first Mac.
I never thought I would say that... - queenbee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I guess what we can all learn from reading this post is:
1) The great diversity in the users of computers.
2) How hard it has to be for hardware makers to decide what to "shove" into an ever shrinking laptop case.
3) And how ridiculous it is for us to all say we know best when it comes to suggesting what people need in a laptop.
I know what I need in a system. I'm a power user that will have to wait till most of my programs port to the new processor before I even consider looking at a new MacBook. I'm not gonna argue about this or that port being gone or pixels missing. There is a market for everything they could put on a laptop. You just need to decide if the MacBook fits what you want. Personally I'm excited to possibly see more PC folks start to use OS X. Don't be fooled by the shiny case of the MacBook. What Steve Jobs really wants is to be able to port OSX to every PC box on the planet. Personally I hope OSX will catch on bigger then the ipod.
In short... Buy what works for you, and long live Mac!! - pinkfireball, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i thought icbm stood for intercontinental ballistic missile
- Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Lost in Translation was a terrible movie (IMO)... just thought I'd add that.
- alex.bosworth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0no svideo out???
- alphanuderek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0intel fanboy _l
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"No ***** modem, christ this is 2000 ***** 6, if you still use a dial up modem you are an idiot. "
In a desktop machine, you're right. For a laptop, though, it's nice to have something to fall back on when there isn't a hotspot nearby. - xenon221, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There are some things that I don't agree with in this article. Who doesn't use DVI or VGA for presentations these days? Firewire 800 is another rarely used item. The lower dot pitch of the screen is good for dual monitor, because it more closely matches a cinema display.
The one item, though, and show stopper is the comment about the video playback being choppy. That concerns me a lot and I hope there is another explanation. On my current machines, I can fly widgets out on a playing video without a hint of a slowdown. When I receive mine, that will be the first thing I'll try.
There is a lot to like about this laptop. For example, I can't wait to see the screen (it's supposed to be extremely bright). The graphics card is quite nice as well. Apple will take care of us! - djhash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@itchyfeet: You are absolutely right. I honestly don't think that MacBooks are aimed towards people like you. At least this generation of MacBook. For professional people who would need the FireWire800 feature, specially to hook-up multiple devices to the notebook the current powerbook will do just fine even for the next year, up until the newer generations of MacBooks. I belive however, that 17" MacBooks will have firewire800 because simply they are bigger in size. Dunno about the modem, used it during in 1995 and ended with that year by going DSL then CABLE. If I'm staying in a hotel for a business, i'll make sure that my notebook can get internet wirelessly at atleast 2Mbps instead of (what was it 56 or 58.. nah 56 sounds about right Kbps.). Hey.. one day i'll probably say the same thing for cable.. lol.. (What? you still have cable? That's so 2006!!! ugh! stay away from me!!)
- shaka999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For me most of the differences don't really matter. The one exception is the lack of a modem. Not having a modem on a laptop is idiotic.
- Gruvenheimer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh nevermind, that's READ speed. Haha
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i would not mind having built in XLR inputs would make podcasting much cheaper and more easy
- oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"i would not mind having built in XLR inputs would make podcasting much cheaper and more easy"
How many laptops have XLR connections? How would they even do it in a 1" thin notebook?
If you really want it, I'm sure that there is a USB dongle (not sure if it can supply the phantom power or not) or an express card solution for you. - Gruvenheimer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0About the dual layer thing- if you scroll to the bottom of the "what's inside" page for the MacBook it says:
Maximum Read: 8x DVD-ROM (single layer); 6x DVD (double layered), DVD-9, DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW; 24x CD
Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't this mean it's dual layered?
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html - muikano, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You see, it's all a matter of preference of what is acceptable in a laptop. What I need, is something fast, something light something durable. I don't need a laptop to run Adobe stuff. I have my desktop for that.
The point of a laptop is portability. Anything above a 5 lbs, to me, is a desktop replacement. As such, the Macbook Pro is a desktop replacement to me. With icam, front row...It really needs a DVD burner. That's prolly why I'm not buying it. I'm waiting for a 3-3.5 lb ibook with Yonah. - jacked, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@gruvenheimer:
"Maximum Read: 8x DVD-ROM (single layer); 6x DVD (double layered), DVD-9, DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW; 24x CD Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't this mean it's dual layered?"
On the same page, right above that line, is another important bit of info:
"Maximum Write: 4x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, and DVD-RW; 24x CD-R; 10x CD-RW"
It can *read* dual-layer, just like any DVD drive, but they don't confirm it writes dual-layer, which normally appears as something like DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL, etc... - oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Quite juvenille, but the author makes a good point about Altivec, which is superior to SSE. I've also heard that PPC is better at floating point -- is this true?"
According to Steve Jobs, the specfp benchmark showed that the Core Duo beats the G4 at floating point. No word on the G5.
SSE3 is what's available on the the Core Duo and if you use (or the programs you run use) Accelerate.Framework or CoreImage or CoreVideo or CoreAudio then you are set since these have already been ported to the Intel chip. Another reason to program to API's instead of coding to the hardware! - dracula7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0apple is just pushing technology standards... they are doing this by
* slowly dropping firewire for usb 2.0 (getting rid of the less used version first)
* dropping the dialup con
* dropping svideo for digital (and nobody uses svideo,unless you dont want to spend 40 or so dollars on another cable--at the expense of quality)
* including isight
* giving it stationary functionality like the frontrow remote--just because its a portable device doesnt mean it cant be used as a home computer--
(basically what oepapel said) - maloney_633, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1This guy is a tool he says that Motorola makes the G4 processor
- oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There's no way that they could drop digital audio support. Making the analog jacks do double duty as a digital connection is an amazing technical feat on the part of Apple.
The S-Video support will more than likely be there. ATI would be responsible for this feature since it's their video card and most PC ATI X1600's support svideo, among other connections. There might even be component video support! - panique, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm willing to bet the S-Video issue can be resolved using the S-Video dongle for the Mac Mini. The modem can be solved with a USB modem dongle.
Personally, I'd rather not have to pay for features I don't use like these two. What pisses me off is now I have to pay for the Optical audio out jack just because some musicians want this. They should have to pay for a dongle too. - marosnax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Without the firewire 800 and S-video which our two things I use alot, since your not always gonna hook up to a monitor and the S-video allowed me to hook up to a TV for saying watching a show from bit torrent? and the firewire 800, if you have a harddrive that can use it and have been using it like I do on a powerbook anything else feels like a snail, I would never go back. Besides, a powerbook you know your getting a rock solid machine and how many of us our using a laptop for more then the basics? Speed is all relative to what you need. And I will rather have my powerbook for the next 3 years and get a great one then since in 6 months you know this will be out of date again and all you will do is bitch you don't have that. just like PC's except when macs get a new thing its a big annoucement. Its a mac it will run great for a good amount of time and you know each operating system that comes out will work on your mac unlike vista.
- dracula7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the name rules too
- electronicmaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"modern benchmarks consist of running typical high-end apps (Photoshop, Fireworks, Excel, etc.),"
Excel is a high end application? - shaka999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Who wants to buy an external modem. I work in a corporate environment. Everyone, and I mean everyone, uses a modem now and again. Hotel broadband is spotty at best.
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