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See the original image at macenstein.com

Good lord! How old is Apple’s ergonomics page?!

macenstein.com — Wow. It looks like Apple ’s ergonomics web page predates the internet. Oddly there’s not a Mac to be found in any of their drawings. I suppose the indication here is that unlike PCs, it is impossible for a Mac to cause harm to a human.

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  • MurphyMac, on 04/20/2008, -10/+347Considering some of the mice Apple has produced I wouldn't spend a lot of time on their ergonomic docs.
    • BrentyD, on 04/20/2008, -74/+11Everything created by apple isn't ergonomic, they just look good and that's pretty much it.
      Well did you expect someone to use that OS?
      More than you can say for Vista I Spose
      LINUX IS ***** WEIRD BUT I LIKE IT :)
      • rickcarson, on 04/20/2008, -39/+97The tragic thing is that this is what the linux guys think that Apple is all about, just a pretty UI. You slap lipstick (UI gloss) on a pig (your POS-compliant Unix wannabe OS), and then declare from the rooftops that "Year (N) is the year of the linux desktop!". And it never is, and you guys don't understand why. You keep piling on the lipstick, but you aren't getting anyone to pucker up for you.

        Moreover, you will _never_ get it. It just isn't in the fundamental makeup of the linux community. You neither understand, nor value, uniformity or usefulness of interface. If someone tried to come up with the linux equivalent of the Apple HIG (human interface guidelines), they would get strung up for trying to impose their will on the community.

        Imagine trying to create a system wide scripting language like Applescript on linux... never happen. You guys have religious arguments over emacs and vi for goodness sake. How many shells are there? Bash, Cash and umpteen others.

        Now don't get me wrong, I recognise that the diversity of the linux part of the noosphere is one of its key strengths. But compared to an OS where I can just sit down and the vast majority of the time I intuitively understand how to work the interface, even of programs I've never seen before, I'll take the well designed UI over the glorious mess every time.

        Windows may be the Cathedral, Linux may be a bazaar, but Apple is like the supermarket. When it comes to finding what I want, at a reasonable price*, and not getting food poisoning, I'll choose the supermarket every time.

        *Yes, you may be able to get it cheaper in the Bazaar, but it requires a substantial time investment (e.g. haggling), and the quality controls are much lower or non existent.
        • lava, on 04/20/2008, -12/+51Man, now Apple fanboys are hating on Linux too? Damn.
          • SilentSpyder, on 04/20/2008, -9/+9I think it's safe to say we prefer Linux over a Windows PC but still prefer mac overall, if not we wouldn't be using one.
          • cwgannon, on 04/20/2008, -5/+23Erm, well, I prefer Linux to OS X, but I'm not a raging ***** ***** about it.
          • brycelb, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3^^^^^^Count yourself in rare company then.
          • rickcarson, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Actually I think the Live CD concept is really cool. And many of the Gnu tools are used on OS X, so we leverage your best efforts.

            Right up until Apple went and got OS X declared a true Unix I'd thought that _eventually_ BSD would get left behind in performance. If Linux could, say 10-12 years from now, get to be 10x faster than any other OS, then that would be a compelling reason to switch over. Now I'm not so sure.
          • kcirtap6075, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3jesus christ.. i'm tired of seeing everyone who likes apple products get called a fanboy.. i know i'll get buried for this but it's annoying.. can't someone just like something without getting heckled?
        • subterfuge, on 04/20/2008, -11/+18personally, i much prefer linux's interface to that of macs, and i own a mac. linux is much more organized and customizable, and several times a year updates come out for individual programs (not to mention the the OS itself (Ubuntu)) so if something is weird about a program, it will most likely get fixed soon
        • DDBdestroyer, on 04/20/2008, -15/+12looks like apple fanboys want to kill everyone, not just Microsoft - i fully supported you until you went against linux - now i am gathering troops to counter your attack!
          • rickcarson, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Given that I mentioned linux in the first sentence... words cannot express how much I value your (brief) support.
        • jemmrich, on 04/20/2008, -10/+22lol I laugh in your general direction, kind sir.
          Your argument about system wide scripting languages; what makes you think languages such as python and the like dont work? Your statement about choice of editor is weak and does not further your argument, as it deals with end user preference.
          As for UI design lets be honest, even mac has its ***** off guideline apps! These "rogue" applications are most likely 3rd party and something that can only be controlled by the individual developer. Large applications such as Nautilus, and window managers like Gnome, have their UI guidelines set, and child applications by those developers are always being updated to conform to those design guidelines, so i really dont see why you have to rant.
          • brycelb, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3I don't think you understand what Applescript does or is. It is not equivalent to python when using a Mac.
          • jgtg32a, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3I admint I don't know much about Applescript but the minute I spent on the wikipedia article seems like its shell scripting. Maybe I'm wrong anyone care to go into further detail.
          • raynevandunem, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2@ jgtg32a

            AppleScript is more of an application/GUI-scripting language. You would use it to, say, automate an export of your Safari bookmarks to del.icio.us or automatically sync your downloaded Miro videos to iTunes for viewing on a hacked-up Apple TV.

            Simply, it's an Aqua-specific scripting language, kinda like VBA (or is it VBScript.NET?) for scripting GUI-related automations in Windows. The closest equivalent that I can surmise for desktop Linux is Python, since it is very well used on both KDE and GNOME in the development of widgets in applications (Screenlets for Compiz Fusion, until the most recent unstable release, and Plasmoids, for KDE 4, are almost exclusively written in Python with SVG rendering). But Python, as a general scripting language, doesn't reach into the exact coverage or demographic that AppleScript was made for.

            I know that Kross in KDE4 is the closest move towards GUI/application automation, but it's only a scripting framework and doesn't pare well with others, including AppleScript's OSA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kross_%28KDE%29
        • CaptEnder, on 04/20/2008, -1/+6Did you just compare Apple to a lowly supermarket?!? Isn't that sacrilege?
          • rickcarson, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Clean, bright, shiny and white, with everything laid out nice and neatly, that once I learn where everything is I can get in and out very quickly with exactly what I want?

            Compared to a Bazaar, where nothing is where it was yesterday, there are no regulations about food handling (mmmm.... botulism), everybody is running around screaming at the top of their voice?*

            I think Apple comes off pretty well by that comparison.

            * To their credit, the main thing a Linux Bazaar is lacking which the real world analogies have is pickpockets.
        • buggu, on 04/20/2008, -4/+10I was with you until you went on the anti-Linux tirade, which is unfounded. True, interface work is something that needs quite a bit of work in the Linux community. Gnome is already well-established in this regard, and I find that it does some things a lot better than OSX. KDE, however, is really lacking in this department.

          As for program choice, Linux has a wealth of options to offer to the end-user. Sometimes you just want to have the one, perfect program, but diversity in application choice is a celebrated Unix ideal and one that has worked remarkably well. If you don't like the direction the application is taking, just fork it. This has resulted in some great apps (such as Beryl and Compiz-Fusion from Compiz, Firefox being based on Netscape). For the time I used Mac, I was extremely dissapointed with the apps on offer. More likely than not, for every good shareware Mac app, there are several open-source quality alternatives for Linux.
          • rickcarson, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1Thanks for your brief support.

            That you call it a tirade reveals one of the weaknesses of the linux community, that it is unable to accept criticism from the outside. Probably this is related to the whole gift giving culture thing, such that even within their own community only those with large amounts of gift giving 'credit' are listened to.

            Your Gnome vs KDE point was another point I could have made to support what I was saying. In user interface design, consistency is king. Having competing standards that do things differently is the opposite of good design.

            As for program choice, you obviously didn't read what I wrote very well. Let me recap. I wrote that the diversity of linux is one of its key strengths. So the main part of your rant is completely pointless, because you are just expanding on a point I already made, not contradicting it at all. Bizarre.

            Anyway, the thing is that it is this diversity that becomes a weakness when we talk about user interfaces, because linux values diversity (and not telling other people what to do, hence the somewhat grudging acceptance of forking) far more than consistency. And in user interfaces, consistency is king. And this is why it will never be "the year of the linux desktop", because not only do you guys not get it, you are incapable of getting it.
        • celkin, on 04/20/2008, -3/+2Your comment reminds me of this:

          http://xkcd.com/406/
        • raynevandunem, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3Oh no he didn't.

          Also, I agree. Desktop Linux is quite a messy pig. There will never be a "year of the Linux desktop."

          But at the same time, I don't agree that Mac OS X (or WinVista/XP) should be the de facto standard to which Desktop Linux should reach. In fact, I do favor the ability to integrate alot more of applications and ideas from third parties which are not available by default in either Mac OS X or WinVista/XP.

          This sort of continual addition and integration should allow Desktop Linux distro installations to eventually become bigger in size than Vista or OS X. So its kinda weird that the pro-Linux (not necessarily the entire pro-FOSS) crowd puts forth the currently-mostly-correct claim that Desktop GNU/Linux is much friendlier with older, less HDspace-or-memory-endowed PCs when the install .isos of the premier Desktop Linux distributions (Sabayon, Ubuntu, openSUSE) are often released as LiveDVDs (more people go for LiveCDs, though), with installation sizes going to upwards of 4GB.

          Soon enough, Desktop Linux distributions will demand far more hardware capacities than Vista. Not that that's a bad thing; in fact, it's natural for whole operating systems to push for larger hardware capacities on a regular basis. Vista, in my opinion, is only the first in recent memory to push for such "insane" requirements.

          After that happens, then I guess we'll see some "boutique" distributions that will be catered to those who have the most money to spend on then most hardware capacity to run stuff like high-end games, multimedia production apps and virtual worlds. Think something that would equate with the boutique PCs of today, like Falcon Northwest, Apple or WidowPC.
        • Aorawn, on 04/20/2008, -1/+6Hah, you compared a Mac to being something affordable and reliable.
          • brycelb, on 04/21/2008, -5/+1Which it certainly is.
          • rickcarson, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1I hoped people would make the connection between the analogy of spending time in the Bazaar haggling, with the various ways of getting cheap machines or cheap OSes, which mainly involve a trade-off of spending large amounts of your time to save dollars.

            There are several supermarkets near where I live. I'm not going to drive around them all till I find the one that sells baked beans 1c cheaper than the others, I'm just going to buy it at the first one, because supermarkets are about saving time and having a certain standard of quality.
        • CCmachined, on 04/20/2008, -0/+2@raynevan: what? Desktop Linux isn't going to have steeper hardware requirements than Vista for a long, long time. I can see your point though; for the best out-the-box experience, you want as many drivers as possible packed onto the installation media. this in no way slows down the computer though. I have Ubuntu 7.10(CD installation) running on a machine with 512mb of ram, and it still boots in around a minute. There will _ALWAYS_ be distributions optomized for lower end computers, like Xubuntu. Vista simply does not give you that option.
        • Ranvier, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3Everyone knows emacs is better than vi.
        • raynevandunem, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1@ CCmachined

          Yes, I know that there will be hundreds of desktop distributions which will fit any older (Puppy Linux) or lower-end (Xubuntu) PC, or even thin-client (Edubuntu + LTSP), if you will. That will remain with us for as long as such PCs are capable of, and extensible enough for, catering to the sometimes/often-changing needs and tastes of users.

          And you're right. Windows-based systems don't give users such degrees or levels of customizability. I honestly don't expect Microsoft to offer such capabilities, since their current bottom line is pushing the latest and greatest of their products in as shiny and attractive a form as possible for the most (legally-reasonable) monetary return, even if it means pushing for steeper hardware requirements in the process.

          I'm only asserting that the premier Desktop Linux distributions that come on (or only on) a LiveDVD will have a higher chance of default-installing FOSS (free in both beer and freedom) applications that have shareware/shrinkwrapware equivalents that are geared to the Windows/OS X platforms, thus leading to bigger default OSes (I'm uncertain about the RAM uptake by such distros).

          For instance, Ubuntu ships (I know that its default with the LiveDVD, LiveCD probably downloads it during installation) with a Bittorrent client and a standard office document suite, neither of which are available by default on either Mac OS X or Windows. And I'm certain that derivatives of such distributions as Ubuntu will ship with even more apps by default.

          Again, I don't necessarily know how this will affect RAM uptake; I only see a trend in bigger default installs of, and bigger HD space requirements, for some certain Desktop Linux distributions.
        • lpcustom, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1Wow, I'm a Linux advocate and even I'll digg you up for the genius involved in that lipstick analogy.
      • flashback99, on 04/20/2008, -1/+4here's the actual page:

        http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/
      • CCmachined, on 04/20/2008, -1/+8Linux > Microsoft > Apple
        why?
        runs on all hardware, pretty much > runs on 95%+ of hardware, which people already have > runs on niche hardware; MAKES YOU BUY COMPLETELY NEW HARDWARE for no reason. Macs are x86, thats PC architechture! there's NO reason you shouldn't be able to run OSX on a PC, period. (hacks dont count, apple should SELL OSX on PCs.) but of course they won't, they've defined their enemy as "The PC" for years. EVEN THOUGH EVERY INTEL MAC IS A PC, right down to the bone.
        • rimantas, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2I only care HOW the OS runs on THE machine I own, to the hell with other 99.999999999999% and HOW it feels to work on it.
      • zongamin, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2You're drunk?
    • hmunkey, on 04/20/2008, -5/+31Well, I mean, their keyboards aren't ergonomic at all.
      • TechCF, on 04/20/2008, -15/+7The other day there was a post by someone who needs to type on laptop type keyboard and said he have not have had any pain after switching to the new aluminum apple keyboard.

        Their mighty mouse is good. Without "fixed" buttons I can vary my finger positions more. My right click finger was hurting earlier on my Intellimouse Explorer 3.
        • anagoge, on 04/20/2008, -2/+7Best mouse = Logitech MX400. Total comfort.
        • t0x2c, on 04/20/2008, -3/+0Depends on how you use the mouse.
        • solistus, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3I use an MX500 (with my MBP and built-in keyboard, which is just fine), and it's the best mouse I've ever owned. Better than all the Apple mice I've used (including that god awful hockey puck), better than the various Intellimice I've used... Plenty of buttons, all accessible, and a nice ergonimic design.
      • BossKey, on 04/20/2008, -1/+13I've been writing with computers for many years and while most of Apple's keyboards have actually sucked, I like the new Aluminum keyboard. It is simply a desktop version of a good laptop keyboard. After spending many recent years writing on laptop keyboards, I now prefer the light touch and short depth of them. Yes, the old IBM keyboard is still great, but I no longer like the long throw and the loud, loud clacking they make.

        One reason I like the ergonomics of the new keyboard is that it's almost flat on the desk. This promotes good ergonomics because it's easier to drop my arms down lower than with the tall traditional keyboards. Plus, it isn't angled. While people think they like angled keyboards, they encourage bending your hand up at the wrist, which is bad ergonomics. The new flat Apple keyboard makes it easier to keep my arm straight from elbow to knuckle. It really does have ergonomic virtues.
    • jim1977, on 04/20/2008, -3/+12About the guide, though: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

      As for the hockey puck? Just ignore it. Time will heal all.
    • Zippo, on 04/20/2008, -17/+11Sure, the puck was bad, but all their current mice and keyboards are fine.
      • Soave, on 04/20/2008, -5/+31The Mighty Mouse, for example, isn't at all designed with your hand's shape in mind. It's completely symmetrical in every way and designed primarily for aesthetics.
        • noloveIII, on 04/20/2008, -7/+13Yeah some people are left handed hence the need for symmetry, which is the major reason i cant use any good logitech mouse. Although i don't love my mighty mouse it needs to be cleaned way too often.
          • PueSi, on 04/20/2008, -1/+10There are mice for lefties too, they should offer two versions to make it comfortable for both , not one version which make it uncomfortable for both.
          • burkhartmj, on 04/20/2008, -0/+4MS makes mice that are both symmetrical and fairly ergonomic. You can make a symmetrical mouse that curves with the hand, but apple doesn't even try, it really is all for aesthetics. I can't say I begrudge them for it though, aesthetics is important to enough people that you can't really consider the mighty mouse inferior, just designed for a different market.
          • noloveIII, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2There are lefty mice but they suck. Where is the left handed version of the MX revolution? Lefty stuff is usually an afterthought.
          • melat0nin, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1I've got a Logi G3 which cis ambidextrous. It's a pretty good all-rounder.
        • crump199, on 04/20/2008, -26/+3Why do you need a mouse that you can use left handed? That's just stupid, just use the mouse with your right hand like everybody else.
          • Aensland, on 04/20/2008, -1/+23I think anyone who surfs porn for any length of time will appreciate the necessity of using your left hand to mouse when your right is... occcupied.
          • jgtg32a, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1ambidextrous for the most epic win ever
      • naonao, on 04/20/2008, -1/+3Have you ever used the current Mighty Mouse?
        • jgtg32a, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Am I not seeing something it seems to be the same, granted its wireless and has a boat load of weird clicking functionality, but it still isn't ergonomic.
          • naonao, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1It gets dirty too easily, I have had to replace two so far just from broken scrollballs, it's horrible to hold, and I like having two mouse buttons instead of guessing where to click.
        • Zippo, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1I own a wireless Mighty Mouse and use it frequently. I've had no issues with it, and heck, I haven't even had to clean it even after owning it for a year. It's not the best mouse in the world, but I'm happy with it.
    • rasterbator, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Oddly enough, companies — and computers — did exist before the internet! What a revelation! /sarcasm/
  • neolycan, on 04/20/2008, -8/+1heh, awesome...
  • auricomnet, on 04/20/2008, -3/+138I still use that computer and I look EXACTLY like the guy in the drawing.
  • killbert24, on 04/20/2008, -2/+41Don't fix what isn't broke, I guess. Plus we all know that raised shoulders leads to electrocution.
    • kaijunexus, on 04/20/2008, -1/+46Really? *shrugs*

      .....AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
  • Zihuatanejo, on 04/20/2008, -7/+47i
  • Ryansmellsfarts, on 04/20/2008, -1/+12Man, I'm doing the neck bent thing right now...time to hang up on the person I'm talking to.
    • ligyron, on 04/20/2008, -0/+27Doesn't seem like you're engaged in a deep conversation anyway
  • BrentyD, on 04/20/2008, -18/+8OMG IT COULD BE THE NEW MAC



    (don't you just love starting rumours)
  • chadillak, on 04/20/2008, -7/+1ha, old computer drawing.
  • kru1e, on 04/20/2008, -3/+5http://www.macenstein.com/images/2008/apple_ergono ...
    My neck sure as hell doesn't bend that way.
    • insomniac8400, on 04/20/2008, -1/+16You can't look down?
      • nekochan, on 04/20/2008, -2/+15he can't. he's a yeti.
        • Wesside, on 04/20/2008, -6/+1omg I almost fell out of my chair
        • sbluetruck, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3it's okay as long as your arms aren't extended and your head isn't bent in the process
      • redstorm986, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3If you cannot touch your chin to your chest that's a symptom of Meningitis, seek medical attention immediately.
    • tas08, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1You should get that checked out.
  • oneoverzero, on 04/20/2008, -2/+13Eh, give me a good sturdy buckling-spring keyboard any day over the ergonomic ones.
    • benplaut, on 04/20/2008, -0/+8tapping away on an old Dell buckler right now, with two IBM clackers on the closet... why the heck aren't these things made anymore?
  • supermajic, on 04/20/2008, -2/+54http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/
  • GhostyBoy, on 04/20/2008, -0/+11Oh wow...I just realized I had my shoulders all hunched like in the picture! What a helpful article!
    • sbluetruck, on 04/20/2008, -7/+4you're probably the only person who got anything from this.

      congratulations!

  • harvested, on 04/20/2008, -13/+7Uhhh. really, who cares.
  • clak, on 04/20/2008, -52/+20Having a Mac is like having a Super Model girlfriend that can cook like a gourmet chef and who reads Tolstoy, but only when she isn't giving you a massage. Windows users will always fall back on their old arguments and say, "Hey, I also have a girlfriend and she can cook too," but the difference is, their girlfriends are fat and cook meatloaf with worms inside. When you point out the worms, the Windows user will say, "Hey, dumb ass, all you have to do is avoid her meatloaf and you'll be fine. I haven't eaten a worm in three years. At least my girlfriend can make Indian, Chinese, Mexican, and Japanese dishes. Yeah, most of the food tastes like crap but at least she can make it. Can your girlfriend do that?"

    "Well no," you'll say, "I started dating my girlfriend because she's a really good French chef and I really love French food. She can also make a few Japanese and Indian dishes and they're usually very good too."

    "But does your girlfriend make Chinese?"

    "No, if I want Chinese, I just order it from this place called Boot Camp."

    "My girlfriend is more open. She lets me sleep with hookers. Does your girlfriend let you do that?"

    "Did I mention that my girlfriend's a Super Model? Why would I want to sleep with hookers?"

    • mmockett, on 04/20/2008, -4/+48I don't know what that means. You are a horrible-analogy-man.
    • mehan, on 04/20/2008, -2/+22I sincerely hope you don't take what you just wrote there seriously.

      Get help.
    • oblique63, on 04/20/2008, -3/+8haha, oh man, that was funny.... but next time dont forget to include the '/sarcasm' tag....
    • Arramol, on 04/20/2008, -5/+141) What does this have to do with the article? You know you're a fanboy when you troll even when it's only tangentially related.
      2) Your Super Model girlfriend costs a heck of a lot more than my "also" girlfriend, yet mine runs games much, much better. Let's see you get a quad-core Mac with a top-of-the-line video card for ~$1000.
      3) Hookers? Seriously?
      • Aensland, on 04/20/2008, -1/+17He's just bitter his "model" girlfriend turned out to be a psycho control freak.
    • Zippo, on 04/20/2008, -4/+4I lol'd
    • allthosemoments, on 04/20/2008, -1/+21This metaphor was too long and didn't make much sense. Fanyboy trolls are the worst because they don't even have a sense of humor, only a sense of self-righteousness. Fail.
    • Soave, on 04/20/2008, -0/+22Computers can't use ovens. NICE TRY.
    • Synchro, on 04/20/2008, -0/+6You used super model and cooking in the same sentence...and meant it. That takes some talent. A talent for what I am not sure though.
    • PueSi, on 04/20/2008, -3/+1Ok?
  • Soccrmastr, on 04/20/2008, -12/+3lol they updated it
  • Mewba, on 04/20/2008, -9/+0THAT's funny. They should leave it. It appears they are assuming we are sophisticated enough to get the joke. lol
    • cluenotyou, on 04/20/2008, -1/+4I'm pretty sure it isn't a joke...
  • RBrenner14, on 04/20/2008, -15/+4The actual page is already fixed... gg apple
  • exquemelin, on 04/20/2008, -0/+87lol. my favorite: problem: "unable to touch type"; solution "learn to touch type"

    hahaha
    • xyqxyq, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3Technically they list "unable to touch type" as one cause of a certain type of pain.
  • yabos, on 04/20/2008, -4/+14What does it matter, nothing has changed in the human body since it was written. It's just as accurate as it was back then.
    • arjung, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1apple loves to be at the forefront of everything, and their support documents are usually top-notch (like movie tutorials for all of iLife). i am surprised they haven't made a movie about this to replace the documentation.
  • psg188, on 04/20/2008, -9/+6Ugghh... They have a random 'Mac Chick' in the corner of the screen.
    I hate everything about what the 'Mac Chick' represents. Fine, she's cute... why do I care that she uses the same computer. What does it matter? Apple should just market their products, not a life style. The fact that I'm supposed to like the fact that she uses a mac pisses me off, what... she's seen the light now and so now I can respect and love her? IT'S A COMPUTER!

    /end rant
    • dnields, on 04/20/2008, -2/+11"Apple should just market their products, not a life style."

      This isn't an Apple page, therefore Apple isn't marketing anything on this page. Get over it.
    • forestine, on 04/20/2008, -4/+4I have a mac, and I don't suddenly have nice legs and pouty lips.

      Maybe I should ask for my money back.
      • davidlow, on 04/20/2008, -0/+6Just use the Mac version of Photoshop.
        • bluesatin, on 04/20/2008, -2/+1Oh Snap, I see what you did there!
  • mal1964, on 04/20/2008, -1/+2Whats up with that foot?
  • newbill123, on 04/20/2008, -1/+2Always use your competitors' products for pages describing design liabilities like these ergonomics issues. Give your users usable advice without giving a lawyer "evidence" that known problems were ignored in your product design.
  • D14BL0, on 04/20/2008, -4/+6Dugg for random Mac chick.
  • TechCF, on 04/20/2008, -4/+4Those documents is really good though. A+ to Apple :)

    The drawings sucks, but you get the points.
  • DEIx15x8, on 04/20/2008, -3/+3I think those are all Macs, just not what you expect from a Mac. They probably did those back when Steve Jobs was gone and Apple was producing generic looking grey box Macs.
  • wush, on 04/20/2008, -1/+12Would you take ergonomics advice from the company that makes the mighty mouse?
  • webjac, on 04/20/2008, -1/+2Wait a couple of weeks and we'll see a brand new one.
  • musicisalright, on 04/20/2008, -0/+5Causes for bent neck = Unable to touch type.

    Solution? Learn to touch type!
    Thanks for the advice Apple!
  • sstidman, on 04/20/2008, -0/+25From viewing the page source of http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/upsol.html:

    meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT


    That's pretty old.
  • phoomp, on 04/20/2008, -0/+5Looks like it dates back to the last time Apple produced an ergonomic product. Pretty stuff ... but ergonomic? No
  • JK1150, on 04/20/2008, -0/+22look at HP's page too
    http://www.hp.com/ergo/keyprinciples.html
  • zonk3r, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3Owww... The lightning bolt neck! Now I know what's causing it.
  • MacTyler, on 04/20/2008, -4/+1And yet still more minimalistic, clutter-free, and beautiful than hp's page http://www.hp.com/ergo/keyprinciples.html
  • CrushThemTorg, on 04/20/2008, -0/+6But can it, through inaction, allow a human to come to harm?
  • shanos, on 04/20/2008, -0/+4http://docs.yahoo.com/docs/info/addfaq.html < Found this the other day, hasn't been updated since 98
    • nationalist, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1# If I am creating a web site, can I add a link to Yahoo?
      YES! If you have a wonderful, new, exciting web page to add to the Internet world, we would love it if you listed it here.
  • techweenie1, on 04/20/2008, -2/+1If it ain't broke, why fix it.
  • PicklePower, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3Here's what it looked like on April 21, 2001 (seven years ago!)...
    http://web.archive.org/web/20010429155007/http://w ...
  • PicklePower, on 04/20/2008, -4/+1Here's what the page looked like on April 21, 2001 (seven years ago!)...
    http://web.archive.org/web/20010429155007/http://w ...
  • edrainkona, on 04/20/2008, -5/+0There's a new one now...
    http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/
  • kd1s, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1It's probably because the basics of ergonomics really haven't changed in the past twenty or so years. They could update the drawings but why waste the time, instead they innovate. That's much more critical.
  • askegg, on 04/20/2008, -0/+2Oh please!
    How much has the human race evolved in the past 20 years?
  • jasonh1234, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1I think the guy on the bottom left is a young Steve Jobs
  • onemillion, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1I'm not your buddy, guy.
  • bdamon, on 04/21/2008, -3/+2My MacBook Pro is the worst ergonomically designed laptop i've ever had. the keyboard needs you to press down futher because it is very slightly submerged, there's only one button for the mouse, the display does not go back as far as all my other laptops, there's no ports on the back so you can't really sit with it in your lap as easily because you have stuff hanging out of the sides. I love the OS, but the laptop ergonomics are terrible.
    • honkaform, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2Actually, I think the trackpad on the MBP's is one of it's best features... Every time I use a friends laptop, I feel so weird actually having to use the scroll bar or right click instead of just the pad.

      I'm naked right now.
      • bdamon, on 04/21/2008, -1/+0I agree that is a very nice feature. But that is not ergonomics. The idea of having to use the keyboard more because you don't have the 2nd button makes you move diffferently. That's why I brought it up ergonomics wise.
  • godspeedyou, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Good lord! Who cares?!?
    • bdamon, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0I do because I'd like to use it more, but because of the keyboard issue and the way I have to sit diferently because they display wont' go further back, I end up haivng to use other laptops with better keyboards and more easily movaeble displays
  • diggamatron, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1buried for colossal waste of time.
  • aroundtown, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Not updated, because nobody but us has bothered to look at this information ever, it's just there for legal reasons.
  • Spo8, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Even moreso than raised shoulders during typing, I find it's a good idea to avoid lightning bolts to the neck.
  • FearAndLoathing, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Oh Apple
  • gelay, on 04/21/2008, -2/+0love everything about my imac
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