What is Digg?59 Comments
- gothicx00, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19@Brasky
Actually, more than 80% of the US cellphone coverage area is CDMA. When Cingular says they have the country's largest network, that is somewhat deceitful. They don't mean the largest coverage area, they mean the most customers, and that would have never happened if they hadn't merged with AT&T Wireless. Sprint on the other hand actually has the true "largest coverage area" as well as the largest "high-speed network" (EVDO... called Power Vision on Sprint and V-Cast on Verizon)
And the reality of the situation is, GSM in the US sucks great big monkey balls. The underlying problem is that GSM has far more customers as a whole to fit in about the same amount of bandwidth as any other carrier. The solve the problem in general by having more towers, and then decrease the coverage area of each tower. That way, Jimmy who is on 36th and Q St. could very well be using the same frequency and time slot on his tower that Johnny is using on 42nd and Q. And that whole "least dropped calls" thing is pure BS as well. If you research the history on that, the study was done in a particular demographic in a particular city, and was not a nationwide study at all. In fact, the company that produced those findings balked at cingular using it they way they did. The *real* fact of the matter is that GSM has more dropped calls, and this is a function of it's technology and design. See the way GSM switches towers lends it self to more dropped calls. It is refererred in the industry as a "hard handoff," while the way CDMA switches towers is called a "soft handoff." Think of it like this: You are tarzan. (I know, i know, but just follow me for a minute) In a hard handoff situation you let go of the previous vine and *then* grab the next. So WTF do you do if you accidently let go of the previous vine and the next one is a little out of your reach or isn't there at all, or has too many people on it already? Soft handoff is pretty much like your hand is on the previous vine whilst you are grabbing the next. If the next one is too far of a reach or has too many people on it, you just hang on to the one you already have. CDMA is technologically superior when it comes to handoff, or tower switching. Hell, CDMA towers even talk to each other when one phone is about to leave the reach of one and enter another. GSM doesn't do that.
But, in Apple's defense, GSM does make a smarter business move as a whole. World wide, there are far more GSM providers than there are CDMA, or any other technology. Problem is, GSM works great in smaller countires like England or France, or any other country other than the US. Here in the US, i'm sorry you Cingular and T-Mobile fan boys, CDMA reigns supreme, and until Verizon and Sprint decide to change to a different technology (which is coming in the near future, but it sure ain't to GSM) that fact is going to remain the hard cold truth. - node3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17There's gotta be no small amount of irony for people named "ImTheDarkcyde" and "n0ydz" complaining about someone playing it loose with phonetic spelling.
- ketha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15The most interesting thing about this article is that Apple don't want the phone to be subsidized, which makes perfect sense as it will help the brand... but one thing that carriers will probably do is give away 'itunes music store' purchase cards, (given the subsidies they offer this could be $200 worth +)... a total win/win for Apple.
- cds0528, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24Cornstarch
don't reply to the top comment just to get yours to the top. Your comment about them waiting and losing out on market share had nothing to do with charlesnoberts comment - crash013, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14They better be.
- Brasky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Yes, CDMA and GSM are very differen't and I'm sure Apple isn't going out of their way to make a totally differen't phone. Also, it gives them a great reason not to have to deal with Verizon and their ***** dealings with customers and ripping them off at every chance they can get. Verizon would probably wont their own crippled UI on the thing. GSM makes alot more sense since it will work on many different networks while CDMA is kinda sketchy in that reguard.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16where is this 'ur' you speak of?
- tbeseda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@Brasky:
Agreed. And I'm droppin Verizon the first chance I get... I hope tho that the iPhone will give me enough reason. I'm not sure that I like that it is an iPod with phone capabilities and not the other way around.
I'm in it for the UI and Mac-ness, not necessarily the muisc/iPodness. - hiteck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7if they're selling it at full price, does it mean that the phones will be sold unlocked?
- Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7We all know the real reason why Apple doesn't want financial help with the product from any of the carriers. It's because they don't want to have to give away ANY crucial control to the carriers over who the phone looks or behaves, who let's face it have no clue about UI and the like.
- MichaelW2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I know I have Alltel and they use CDMA - does this outrule any chance of Alltel getting the iPhone?
- MacParrot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Poor sad little ducky. So desperate to bash a product that doesn't even exist yet.
- astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Come on guys, give him a break. He's clearly retarded.
- gothicx00, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9This was meant to be a reply, but Digg likes to ***** with my brain....
- MacParrot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7With the exception of Ducky, I apologize for the following rant....ahem
CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT A STUPID PRODUCT THAT APPLE HASN'T ANNOUNCED OR EVEN SHOWN ANY PUBLIC INTEREST IN? MY BRAIN IS GOING TO MELT DOWN FROM ALL THE STUPID SPECULATION ON THE FRIGGING iPHONE!
end rant - TheTSArt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3How can you be disappointed? We don't know ANYTHING yet.
Until Apple says something itself, all these iPhone stories are just speculation designed to bring masses of people to their websites. - Frankie4Fingers, on 10/12/2007, -10/+12It would be nice if we didn't have to see apple stories about things that aren't even made yet. Might as well call digg "apple rumor mill" because there are more apple rumors on here then any other product rumors.
- cheez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2technically edge is 2.75g
"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution - cbiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think it's a digg Top Story - Music phones vs. the iPod Phone.
- morcheeba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ireland hits the nail on the head. Motorola & Nokia's true customers are the carriers, not the end-users. Carriers see their customers as captive additional sources of money -- why let them buy from iTunes when the carrier could be selling the music? That's why they would never subsidize a phone compatible with a competing service. It's all about control.
- codemonkey2841, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been holding of on replacing my broken RAZR, just in case this phone falls into my price range and is everything I hope it ends up being. I can't wait!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3when it has a 2+ mp camera, wifi, and a smart phone, let me know
- nicheplayer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT A STUPID PRODUCT THAT APPLE HASN'T ANNOUNCED OR EVEN SHOWN ANY PUBLIC INTEREST IN?"
Too bad Digg wasn't around for the original iPod release. - Applemacmad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The big advantage of using GSM/EDGE is that they will be able to release it to UK and Europe
- Deuterium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2yawn.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8@matt0baba
Thanks for contributing to the ever so abundant defecation of the English language.
"ur"
Is it really that hard to type two more letters? - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Power usage too.
- DucksofAnaheim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Sales for the phone will skyrocket initially. However, things will calm down, and the Apple phone will take its place on the shelves with the random video cameras, cell phones, wireless routers and other would-be hits. Remember the Mac Mini? It was supposed to ignite a revolution for small computers. It didn't. The flat-panel iMac? Some predicted that Apple's price tag would drive other prices higher. Whoops :)
- l00dpr3h, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The credibility of ThinkSecret applies to this rumor. Read this the accuracy of the ThinkSecret posts: http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/how-accurate-is-think-secret/
Now re-read the article this digg post is linked to. He's not giving specifics. Vague stuff. Anybody could have made a rumor post that sounded like this.
I think every rumor site has been blabbing about this phone. So ThinkSecret comes up with their "inside" info to contribute and get cited in places like this.
Does this sound like news about the phone: "One source familiar with the iPhone explained that it is more accurate to think of the device as an iPod with phone capabilities, rather than a phone with iPod functionality."
What's the bread and butter for Apple right now? Someone just stated something obvious.
How about this gem: "As such, appropriate iPhone pricing will be critical to protecting the iPod brand."
If you live in a major metro city, look around and see who has an iPod on. Do you think that demographic can afford a $400 phone? Sounds like an opinion rather than fact.
Here's a good: "The iPhone will likely ship in two capacities, other sources say, packing 4GB or 8GB of NAND flash in the most likely scenario, identical to Apple's mid-range and high-end iPod nano. Pricing for the iPhone will accordingly be higher than the similar iPod nano, although sources have not heard specific prices mentioned."
Wow! He must know something; but he then leads into stating: "Citing his own sources, Kevin Rose of Digg.com recently said on an episode of the Diggnation podcast that the iPhone will ship in a 4GB version for $249 and an 8GB version for $449, representing a $50 and $200 premium, respectively, over the iPod nano."
Does that sound like the source of the last paragraph was Kevin Rose?
So folks, don't believe the hype ThinkSecret puts out anymore. His poor site has lacked in any accuracy for the last couple of years. He just takes info from other rumor sites, and recycles it as "something new and exciting."
If you want rumors sites that have more content and more accuracy, try appleinsider.com, or macrumors.com. - kevincw01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2EDGE speeds suck. I was considering this phone and switching from my cdma provider, but not a chance now.
- maxfact, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Almost everyone is missing the point. It's silly to argue over which combination of existing mobile phone technologies Apple would use in an iPhone product. IF Apple were to produce such a device, they would do so in a decidedly Apple-like way. That means they would marry technologies together in a new way or invent something new that we've not seen before or evolve something that was a good idea but hasn't yet gotten off the ground.
Apple is about innovation. They wouldn't enter a new market unless they had something new to offer. THAT is going to be the interesting story...assuming of course there is a story in the first place. - ZennZero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@ImTheDarkcyde
You know -- Ur. Its the capital of Babylon. The black markets there are great. The cellphone coverage isn't so good though. It must be that giant tower... - harpdog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2i am disappointed to hear it wont be a 3g phone. Apple are supposed to be at the forefront of technology so why support 2.5g. Like the last effort from apple/Motorola the phone was underspecced.
3G is where it is at. I currently get unlimited 3G data usage 900mins talk time from t-mobile for £35 a month so why would I want a 2.5.g phone. I currently have a SE k800 I wont be switching to an iphone unless it is 3g - ThisIsSteve, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5"The first part isn't a technological advantage, it's a *physical* advantage"
Yes, a physical advantage given by 2.5G technology. Why are you pointing this out? - MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1:) Brasky, I'd be happy to let you know that Consumer Reports did a Service Provider test in the last issue and who was top in nearly every category?
*drum roll* Verizon!
If it wasn't Verizon, they were second and typically, another CDMA carrier was on top. I believe T-Mobile took the cake in one or two tests but Cingular remained last in almost every single one.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/cell-phones-service/cell-phone-service-1-07/overview/0107_serve_ov_1.htm
Link that! - jtcalhoun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@tbeseda: "I'm not sure that I like that it is an iPod with phone capabilities and not the other way around."
I'm also a little cautious about the idea of an iPod Phone. Personally, I want an MP3 player that's great at being an MP3 player, and a phone that's great at being a phone. --not an MP3 Phone that is halfway decent at both.
I may be in the minority here, but I'd much rather see Apple release a phone/pda more along the lines of some of the great phones HTC is making. --think of it more as a "Newton Phone."
Even though you would have two separate devices, there could still be room for some great interoperability between the two, such as: automatic song pausing, caller id during video playback, etc. - galahan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5"...technology's advantages over 3G: physically smaller components and more reliable communication."
The first part isn't a technological advantage, it's a *physical* advantage. The second reason is silly because that only applies to data, and the bandwidth of 3G is a lot higher than 2.5G, even if 3G coverage is currently thinner. The *real* reason is probably because it's cheaper, but if there's going to be a smartphone version of it, they really should make it 3G. - gothicx00, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ConsistentChaos
GSM on paper is great. But the fact that it is based on TDMA underpinnings is where it's faults lay. GSM is nothing more than a cobbled together technology that is hampered severely by it's upbringings. Explain to me why there isn't more Edge access in the US. Explain to me why Verizon and Sprint have far more high-speed access via phones than both Cingular and T-Mobile. Also explain to me where you get off thinking that GSM is technologically superior to 3g CDMA. Wait, I know, you've been decived by clever marketing campaigns designed to think that the utter crap that is spewing forth from Sony-Ericsson and Cingular collectively is cutting edge.
The simple fact of the matter is, GSM is, by it's very nature and admittly by those who founded the standard, is a *2G* standard. Granted, technically, CDMA can be considered this as well, many of it's data and PTT (push to talk) bretheren that are included on nearly every phone now from both Sprint and Verizon is EVDO. EVDO my friend is a 3G technology. What about EDGE you say? Yeah, tough luck, thats 2G as well. Cingular trains it's employees to call EDGE a 2.5g technology, but thats just clever marketing again. It's as 2G as it gets. It's inferior in every way to EVDO.
And the Amiga reference? Not even close buddy. EDGE's standard was ratified in early 1999. EVDO? Yeah that didn't come around till early 2002. And the great thing about EVDO is, the same service side equipment that can provide EVDO rev 0 today (about 1.5 mb downstream) is scalable in the future to support Rev A and later Rev B (upto 4.5 mb downstream)
EDGE? 500kb downstream if you are lucky, with no hope for expandability. Cingular and T-Mobile will eventually have to move to HSDPA, which at the moment is technologically incompatable with the current GSM networks in the US.
Regardless it sounds like you need to do the research on the technologies at hand.
So in closing, who do you think has made better business moves in the recent past? Cingular and T-Mobile or Verizon and Sprint? - kennybain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@MichaelW2
I wouldn't count on not seeing one of these phones offered by Alltel based upon a rumor from Think Secret. Despite what the article says, CDMA is NOT less reliable than GSM. I have Alltel too - as a result of it being *much* more reliable in my area than Cingulair. Look at the Consumer Reports article on CDMA - in areas where Alltel is available, they were tops! Plus, with free roaming on Verizon and Sprint, Alltel has fantastic coverage.
Another thing that Apple will consider: throughput. Alltel offers 3G EV-DO speeds in my region (even in the most remote locations you can get to) of over 1MB/s. Verizon and Sprint (other CDMA carriers) are not far behind Alltel in their 3G rollouts either. Throughput is something they will certainly consider for those wishing to purchase through iTunes over the phone network.
Earlier rumors were that Alltel would offer the phones in a CDMA and GSM version. Since it will most likely be used in the US first, then rolled out to other parts of the world, it makes sense to do it this way.
Summary: don't bet the farm on a rumor site like Think Secret. When Apple publicly release the phone specifications, that is what it will be! - d0b33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1LOL
The US is way behind...
South Africa has HSDPA coverage already
http://168.210.128.68/3G/ - gothicx00, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@itsme92
Good on you for realizing reality!
One of the things that alot of people don't realize is that Verizon's and Sprint's networks are virtually one in the same. True, Sprint does do a little more QoS with it's voice packets, and Sprint to Sprint calls sound better than anything else, but even just plain ol' CDMA sounds great. And when it does break up a little bit for what ever reason you can still somewhat understand what the person is saying.
I used to work customer service for Cingular and let me tell you, when their service breaks up it *breaks the ***** up!*
Imagine this:
"Yes mcllng........... ause myphone doestwk ::zinnnnng pop:: the prahhhhbm..... doesnnnnnt................... can you helpme with that?"
Ever wonder why they want you to call from a land line for support? Thats the reason why. Every bad call sounds exactly like that. - MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1When will they rename Digg to English 101?
I'm sure that Cingular will lock the phone if they are to receive it. However, remember, it's now legal to unlock your phone and switch providers. Woo! +1 United States - ConsistentChaos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@gothicx00:
Amen, brother! CDMA rules!
BTW, how's your Amiga doing? - Iconoplasty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I'm curious whether not allowing the carriers to subsidize the phone will have any effect on the carriers' tendency to lock the phone to their service.
- bsummersett, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Not cool
- itsme92, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I don't get why everybody seems to hate Verizon. Sure, their customer service sucks, but the reason I'm on Verizon is that I can get service everywhere.
I live in the Bay Area, and within the Bay Area, I have never had a problem with no service, bad sound, dropped calls, etc.
CDMA is the best voice network imho.
Of those carriers, I've found that Verizon's network is the best for me in the Bay Area. - fuckingstudent, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Does a language defecate?
- JustinGN, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2No 3G because 2.5G has "physically smaller components"? *****. I have a word and a letter for you there: Blackjack and Q.
- DucksofAnaheim, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Another reason the supposed iphone won`t matter.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/2#c2932220 - d0b33, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Apple are spot on!
I have Edge/2.5G via Virgin Mobile, and an option between 3G and 3.5G/HSDPA via Vodafone, and 3G is only 10kb/s faster and less stable... HSDPA is 1mb/s and stable, but a bit expensive ATM
(I'm using EDGE while I write this BTW)
Apple should skip 3G and push 3.5G in future, but EDGE is the way to go for now -
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