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Apple blacklisting hacked iPhones?

blogs.zdnet.com — Speaking of hacks, Today I went into an Apple store with a less than two week old iPhone that had the green tint camera problem. Because it had been “hacked” with some 3rd party apps and was running T-Mobile they refused to service it, said the warranty was voided and “blacklisted” the phone against future service, or return!

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  • plexxer, on 10/10/2007, -4/+183It does clearly state in section 'e' of the 5th paragraph of the Apple iPhone warranty (http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/iphone.pdf) that the warranty is void:

    (e) to a product or part that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;

    So, you know, don't be an idiot. Re-flash the phone to original settings before bringing it in for warranty service.
    • DRINKxREDxBULL, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9They talked about how to do it in the last TWIT podcast.
    • aliengoods, on 10/10/2007, -13/+6Doesn't matter. If you bought it with a credit card, dispute the charges.
      • exomni, on 10/10/2007, -17/+7Yeah! Screw having good credit, owning a home, or getting decent loans on your car! That's for wuss's!
        • Synthetik, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16Do you understand what disputing charges even means? It will not effect your credit rating. Plus it wouldn't even apply in this case. You can't dispute the fact that you paid for an iPhone and are unsatisfied with their warranty policy. If you were charged for a repair that they never preformed or if they double billed your card, you would be able to dispute those charges. But you can't dispute the purchase price for a product that you received.
        • cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The only part that might affect your credit rating is if the card issuing company canceled the users card for a fraudulent dispute.

          Disputing the charge normally means the credit card company has to resolve the issue between the company and the customer, and Apple is a big enough company that an explanation that service was cancelled due to a voided warranty might hold enough clout for the card company to consider the customer the riskier party.
        • uberfu, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Plus - Do the Apple Stores have a Re-stocking Fee Policy ?

          Best Buy has one that is nearly 20% on opened items_ It is clearly plastered all over the wall behind the checkout counters_

          I've only been in an Apple Store on occasion and have never seen anything abouta restocking fee_ Nor have I seen anything in the return policy literature_

          This dude got hosed if he paid the fee_ You can even get Best Buy's iron-clad restocking fee waived if you talk to the right person_

          @cquinnd -

          But if he has a big enough bank like the likes of Bank of America - they have no problem backing up their clients against the likes of even Apple_
        • ersnyder, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Plus - Do the Apple Stores have a Re-stocking Fee Policy ?"

          Yes, it is stated on a sign at the register (on the counter) as well as on the back of your receipt. Like people who don't read the warranty and are shocked when they have voided it. People who don't read their receipt for return information are just as retarded.
    • themoosejuice, on 10/10/2007, -23/+3If your sending it in for service, your iPhone is broken. How are you going to re-flash a broken phone? LOL. You cant!
      • Synthetik, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13Because the camera has a green tint, it's impossible to flash the phone?
      • Eddible, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I think someone needs to read articles before they speak.
    • HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Warranty (anti-bundling) laws in the US as applied to cars say the company cannot disclaim the warranty for unauthorized modifications. They have to show the modification cause the problem.

      Maybe it applies to consumer electronics too. It'd be great if someone went to court and found out.
  • pauldy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+150I really think this article illustrates perfectly how little brains it takes to hack your iphone now.
  • KevMacLeod, on 10/10/2007, -2/+91What were you expecting them to do? How stupid can some people be...
    • jshabad00, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4But if you put linux on your laptop against the warranty that is completely different, right?
      • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Not for a hinge. But what if the video card were burnt out? It could easily be argued that Linux might have over-driven it.

        We don't know what was wrong with his iPhone, or how he unlocked it either (what if it was the hardware unlock?).
      • pizpot, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1yes. i even ask tell the sales people so when I buy laptops for other people. remember, everyone sells computers, so vote with your feet and wallet if you get poor service.
      • break99, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2YES, it's entirely different: you don't hack the firmware of your laptop like you do with your iphone.
        Apparently, you really can't fix stupid.
        • jshabad00, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So the exact text of the warranty doesn't matter?
  • OS2Guy, on 10/10/2007, -27/+27People. Aren't they silly? They break into your car, take it for a joyride and when the radio knob fails to work they drive it right into the showroom floor and ask for a replacement. Hello? LOL!
    • aquanutz, on 10/10/2007, -16/+31Except for the fact that he bought the iPhone legally... jackass.
      • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Yeah but he didn't say how he unlocked it. What if it was the hardware unlock where you had to SOLDER bits of your phone? In that case, it would seem pretty reasonable not to honor the warranty. It could be the low-level Apple store workers only knew about that method... since it was cleared up by talking to a managre (at the same store!) it seems like a non-story, except the warning to reset the phone with the original software is a good idea anyway if you've hacked the phone, so they can be sure problems are really with the phone and not a hack affecting operation of the phone (which is also entirely possible).
      • azprofessional, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0WHat do you expect? His name is OS2guy
      • uptown, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7True ... but then they intentionally hacked the software. Apple cannot open themselves up to supporting devices that have been hacked. Doing so would make their customer support a complete nightmare. The iPhone is a closed platform ... and until Apple decides to open it up to allow developers to place applications on the device, it's not unreasonable that they've taken this stance.
        • natenovs, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4recently there was a story here about a computer manufacturer that wouldnt service a laptop because the owner had reformatted and put linux on it. everyone was outraged. when apple does it though, it's perfectly reasonable...
        • creepermclurker, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0well said.
  • ncaauwe, on 10/10/2007, -28/+4Can I get a "dee dee dee?"
  • Kendal, on 10/10/2007, -6/+13I see your warranty void link, and raise you a loophole!
    http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iPhone_User_Guide ...
    Pages 93 - 100, Section titled 'Settings' which constitute written permission to modified to alter functionality or capability. sure it's not specific to any hack, but the warranty doesn't stipulate specification of the alteration to the written permission. Basically, the clause in the warranty isn't specific enough.
    • mrjofo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You are not modifying capability with the settings.
    • habbofresh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So he recieved writen permission to hack his phone?
    • ISEEDEADPEOPLE, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Looks Like Apple read digg! the loophole page is down already!
    • cleverboy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Kendal, why did you bother? Just wondering. Were you reading the guide in vain for much too long, and felt you had to rationalize some loophole out of thin air?
      • Kendal, on 05/31/2008, -0/+1Yeah...that's what I was doing....riiight.
  • spinchange, on 10/10/2007, -6/+9Apple ultimately replaced the phone and I think the final outcome was very fair. It's nice to hear some good news about Apple acting cool.
  • wild, on 10/10/2007, -5/+57Wait, so you voided your warranty and your pissed they won't fix it anyway? Hello! McFly!
    • Chakat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Except voiding the warranty for third party modifications is illegal, unless apple can prove that the damage was directly caused by the modification. You should read up, being an informed customer is much more fun.
  • SilentJay74, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3OK so I am sure Kevin and Alex are screwed, they hacked their iphones on the ask.com special features after episode 115. (If you didn't know you can go to ask.com and type ini Diggnation for exclusives). I could have swore I saw Woz on the history of hacking. He actually sat down with Mitnick and Capt. Crunch! (Two of the biggest hacker celebs to date)and Woz was named as one of the top known hackers ever.How do you think Apple started! Apple started as the first home PC that was a hack of bigger PCs. This is BS. I don't own an iPhone but far be it for me to buy something and then be able to use it how you want to.
    • KSUdesigner, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You are free to use it how you want, but don't expect them to service something that you've hacked. This isn't just an Apple issue, most companies will tell you your warranty is void if they know you've hacked it.
  • draegloth, on 10/10/2007, -8/+39I'm outraged! I brought my Delorian in for service because the headlights were out of focus, and they said the warranty wasn't valid because it had been "hacked" and was running a Flux Capacitor. They blacklisted it against future service!
    • Mhykol, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Your Delorian is still under warranty? Wow, what kind of warranty plan did you get?
    • Avian00, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Well if it's blacklisted against "future service," just go back in time!
  • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10Apple blacklisting iPhones! Except that they aren't when you don't talk to a peon apple store worker!

    Not nearly as exciting when you actually read what happened.
  • racco, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4well duh!
  • exomni, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5Wow. Whoever wrote this story gets DUMBASS of the week.

    NO ***** hacking a product voids the warrantee! Seriously? OH MY ***** GOD HOW COULD APPLE DO THISSIS?!?!?!?!!11

    Restore your ***** iPhone and put the AT&T SIM back in the ***** phone, you dolt.
  • Josephtech, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15the hacking of almost any product voids the warranty. This is nothing new. How come when Apple does something annoying people act like their the only company doing it.
    • Gee1004, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Becuase Apple fan boys are whiny babies
      • Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Just the vocal ones. I'm a Mac fan with an iPhone, and I'm not stupid enough to complain about something so plainly obvious that's equally true with any company.
  • Chris1280, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5Well I'd hate to say it but he is American.
    • orlyfactor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5I'd hate to say this, no actually I don't hate to say it; no one cares what you think.
  • trichecodotcom, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Buried because this story is lame. Hack a microwave oven and then try to return it....
  • Hermmunster, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7An exemption granted by the library of congress to the dmca permits individuals to unlock their cell phones.

    If Apple reverses the unlock (and who knows what else) then Apple is in violation of federal law and can be sued as well as issued various cease and decist orders.

    For once, you are protected agtainst big business. Apple is wrong and should be sued if they violate the federal law.
    • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3They let you unlock cell phones. But given that the unlock might well involved hardware modification, they don't have to honor the warranty for a modified device...
      • lancerall, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I don't think it's the unlock that they're worried about.
    • JoeSchu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Sure, you can unlock it, but as soon as you go out and change firmware/software, you've essentially forfeited your warranty protection. In this case, how can Apple be held accountable for the camera issue if it can't be validated that it is a manufacturing issue or a software one? I agree, Apple can't force you to run their software/firmware, nor can the re-lock the phone, but they're well within their right to refuse a modified phone for warranty service or refund. There's no protection for that in DMCA's exemption.
    • KSUdesigner, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Except this story has nothing to do with Apple reversing the unlock. This has to do with Apple considering warranties of hacked iPhones to be null and void. Apple is not wrong by taking this stance, this is the same position that nearly every company holds when it comes to servicing their products.
  • jmdajr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3thats the chance you take. live with it.
  • olp1ma, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4And you're surprised because...?
  • residentps2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well durrr?

    GREAT DURRS OF HISTORY!
  • sorensilk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Whether hacking your iPhone voids your warranty or not, it's just common sense to restore it before taking it in for service. That way you avoid this situation entirely. Use your brains people, you can do it.
  • SilentJay74, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5Installing an app should not void a hardware issue though.
    • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5How can you tell what is really a hardware issue though, if the software has been modified? Loading your own software could affect even the drivers that handle touch input.
    • Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think the issue is more related to unlocking than installing. Which, I'll point out, survives a restore (since it makes a change to the modem, not just software)
  • dennisbest, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10I actually saw this in my rss reader and had to visit this page to make a comment... but then I see others have beat me to it. The poster is a dumbass. Glad others have pointed that out. My faith in humanity is slightly restored.

    Now I'm back to work. I have to call Adobe tech support. My pirated copy of Photoshop is acting up.
  • penguincentral, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yeah. Although there are only two iPhone apps that i am genuinely interested in, the ringtones one and the remote desktop one ;)

    Damn apple, when will you release the iPhone here down under...
  • connieLingus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5buried for stupidity
  • orlyfactor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Why are people surprised? If I hack my 360, I know sure as ***** M$ won't fix it if it breaks...
  • an10ae, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12I feel really bad for this guy.
    Mental retardation can be so hard to deal with especially for the families.
  • Zombie999, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Buried...
  • manbergur, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4what did you expect? "oh it looks like you have hacked into the iphone and violated the terms of the warranty agreement, and now we are gonna make less money off our lucrative deal with AT&T because of you, let me fix that camera issue for you sir"
  • lancerall, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Same thing if you mod your car and void its warranty... sure, the mod may not have caused your problem, but they can refuse to fix it because of your service agreement. Just frickin un-mod it... how hard is that?
    • indiefan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Actually there is precedent that they can't do that very thing. They can't claim your (annoying) lack of muffler or modified exhaust/intake caused your transmission to break.
  • FriedApple, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Buried as "This guy is a ***** idiot"
  • boredcollegekid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2It states it in the EULA, or what ever you call it. Unfornate, but you had to expect it. That is why I don't hack stuff until the warranty is over, that way I wouldn't be able to get help on it anyway!
  • synagence, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I suppose this could get interesting for those that bought iphone, hacked it but never activated it on at&t
  • totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5How difficult would it have been to just back up your "hacks", restore the phone to its original settings, THEN taken it in?
    What a dumbass.

  • SantaClauz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The word "duh" comes to mind.
  • brbubba, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4"(e) to a product or part that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;"

    That would include installing software or music or anything for that matter on it. It is now 100% legal to unlock any cell phone out there and if this refusal continues it's asking for a class action lawsuit.
    • MiDri, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Sure it is 100% legal, but it still violates the terms of service you have with Apple. If you want to hack your iphone you won't be prosecuted, just don't expect apple to honor their end of the agreement, sense you have not.
    • cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You have a legal right to unlock the phone.

      Apple has a legal right to refuse service if the warranty is voided, including if it was done so while enagaging in an activity that legally unlocks the phone.

      Should Apple/AT&T be taken to task for not providing a simple unlock code that can be used without voiding the warranty? Perhaps, but refusing to service a product that is clearly
      outside of warranty (and which could have been put back into a warranty covered state prior to seeking service), is within their rights.
  • Wander2000, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1All these phones belong to us
    • uberfu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2get it right_

      All Your iPhones Are Belong to Us
  • filth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Um, duh? Buried.
  • uberfu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2This is just like the laptop that guy installed Linux on and then the monitor hinge broke_ They will have to serive a physical defect - unless he opened the hing up and soddered something_

    A physical device warranty is a separate item from a software warranty_
    • superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Was the problem he had physical or software related?

      Given that Apple doesn't support loading software on the device (unlike a laptop) how can you tell with an iPhone if a problem is hardware or not without the factory software installed? What if a hand-loaded background app goes into an infinite loop consuming CPU? That would cause the device to act all kinds of flaky, even though the hardware was actually fine.
  • MonkeyHugger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sell it
  • MonkeyHugger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Only after asking for the manager and having several conversations with her, did they finally allow me to return it, but charged me a 10% restocking fee…"

    Well what are you complaining about. He shouldn't of even got that.
  • PrinceDiscord, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Computer manufacturers do the same thing. If you install a different OS on it, your warranty is considered void. Hell, the only company that doesn't do this with computers is Apple...which is pretty ironic here.

    But yeah, common sense says to restore the phone before taking it in.
  • JohnnyXmas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Your phone is not blacklisted. Just flash it back and they'll service it. They are not legally allowed to blacklist your phone. They can, however, deny you service as per their ToS.

    Also, EVERYONE does this, not just Apple. Stop being a dick.
  • SirBotchness, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well what did you expect?
  • tfstone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1How retarded do you have to be to walk with a hacked iPhone into an Apple store?! Dugg down due to stupidity...
  • Gee1004, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Buy another phone if the iPhone is doing for you
  • digghasnoethics, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2This is the type of problem apple landed themselves with when they decided to get into bed with the devil. The desire for them to get that everlasting revenue stream made them forget that their customer base is not happy with locked down products.

    If apple has any sense they would drop the lock and sell the phone for connection to any network, with the customer fully in charge of their property. In the end that would give them the control as the network fought over providing their comms service. However one too many MBAs have been allowed to infest apple and once again, the company shoots itself in the foot.
  • indiefan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i'm kinda sensing that you guys think he should have reflashed his firmware
  • gregrich, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I don't see a problem here; anyone that has done any type of hacking knows that this voids your warranty, and any hacker would have restored the phone before bringing it into the Apple store.
  • illtempered, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2How stupid can you be? wasn't this just obvious?
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