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625 Comments
- ketsugi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+263Just think: if Apple had released this a few weeks earlier they could've earned $14k!
- oepapel, on 10/12/2007, -21/+127"And now Apple supporting Mac OS X?"
Apple has been supporting OS X for a while now.... - bowiestyle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+106"Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries."
Ouch... - LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+74why would people still program for OSX? That's a pretty lame question to ask. The same problems would still plague Windows on the Mac as it would on a PC, and most people are still going to buy the Mac for OS X.
I love this quote from the page:
EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries. - retral, on 10/12/2007, -3/+63@jer
Why? Because some people like the look, feel and operation of the OSX interface. Never before has a computer had official support for both OS X and windows XP, I think this will be a HUGE selling point for apple, and the time to buy apple stocks was yesterday (unless, of course, you got in before the ipod boom) :P - Lacero, on 10/12/2007, -15/+70I just threw up a little bit in my mouth™
- karliemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+61Do I have to reboot everytime? hopefully 10.5 will be built in like VPC
- retral, on 10/12/2007, -8/+51@ionik: ditto x.x
And wow, I totally was not expecting this from apple, it's a HUGE move on their part. - frogstik, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43Apple got a few little digs in there -- also mentioned about how since it's windows you're venerable to all the crap that goes with it... funny.
- eggyacid, on 10/12/2007, -5/+41yeah, imagine a cube transition and you'll be in windows..... damn, that would be too hot!
- javaTard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37I do believe I have just had the last reason I would not buy a Mac get shot down. So now I can have the function of a Unix type system in the Apple part, and run all those programs that do not port over to either Linux or Apple on the other partition.
Now if I could only afford one. - lepton, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36Yes, with Boot Camp you do have to restart in order to switch. But I am also looking forward to, and am expecting, one or more Virtual-PC-like solutions where you can run both operating systems at the same time. I expect third parties will make them, and with Boot camp out there, I now expect instead of having the Windows partition in a file like the current VPC does, it will probably work off the same real hard disk partition Boot Camp does.
I hope people also noticed something else in Boot Camp that is new - an ability to split your disk into two partitions without reformatting and erasing the disk! That's new from Apple. - r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -15/+47Why code for OS X?
Because Windows is a bloaty piece of crap and has more holes than swiss-cheese, that's why!
At least there is no more hacking around required to get XP on a Mac for those people that REQUIRE to use Windows.
Mac OS X has a much nicer API and extensibility, that Windows just doesn't have. - Refrag, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Yeah, but the transition that Windows could provide back to Mac OS X would be lame. :p
- Refrag, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31Dvorak said Apple was switching to Windows. This isn't that.
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -9/+37writing "DOWNLOAD NOW" in all caps looks trashy, especially when compared with the nicely written digg we're currently reading.
People will take preference over a "superior" digg even if an earlier article exists. - thetrav, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25Remember, it's BETA software! I'm sure some features will be added/changed.
- kkapoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25I see market share increasing slowly.. slowly. Freaking awesome!! Time to buy an MBP.
- ext237, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29There are several people in this thread complaining about having to reboot to switch OS's. The same is true for Win and other OS dual boots and everyone is ok with that.
So why bash OS X because it can't do something Linux hasn't accomplished? Seems like you are applying a double standard to your dual boots. - ext237, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24"I will target the platform with the most customers, simple as that, and that's why at the moment, I won't code for OSX."
Or, you can uninstall VB.NET and start coding in Java -- that way you will create code that works on both OS X and Win. [ducking, running] - tgourley, on 10/12/2007, -12/+35You gotta love Apple's snarky comment on the sidebar of that page:
EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries. - yensed, on 10/12/2007, -7/+30Apple knows how to do things right.. They are constantly coming out with new and innovative ideas that work. They dont just update old ideas, they think up new ones...
- eggyacid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24I'm installing it now.... seems very simple!
- umrgregg, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28Currently you have to reboot. Virtualization would be sweet, though.
All in all, I don't know why Apple bothered. I mean, someone already won the prize money. ;) - Nick_Circosta, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23the BETA of 10.5 will be distributed at WWDC
- Ionik, on 10/12/2007, -15/+35You're just upset that his made the front page and yours didn't
- calhoun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Read the link - it does require a reboot. So, it's great to have but virtualization or Wine-like functionality would be even better.
- weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19This is huge. Absolutely huge. I wonder if Apple will mess with virtualization since that is MS' bag at the moment. It would be ideal to use both (virtualization to run apps, dual booting for games, CAD, intensive stuff). These are some pretty convincing reasons to upgrade to an Intel Mac from a PPC one, and maybe to Switch too?
Honestly, when I saw the headline I was checking to see if April Fool's came 3 days late! - hifiDesign, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19While you (and Dvorak) may see this as his being victorious over all the mac fanboys that probably sent him death threats, this is NOT what he predicted with his infinite wisdom. Dvorak predicted the Apple would 100%, unequivocally abandon OS X in favor of XP. This is not the case, nor is it a step in that direction. Apple (and not M$) are making seamless integration part of the their marketing efforts to woo high-end & professional users to purchasing their hardware and software. There are no excuses left for people not to switch if what they desire is a Mac - especially those who work in creative professions.
As for the nay-sayers, go back to your beige boxes, it won't hurt our feelings. We'll be computing in the 21st century, and you'll be waiting for Vista until the 22nd century :) - e3mw, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22Do you hear that? That's the sound of Dell, Gateway, HP, and Sony's marketshare falling.
There's something strangely ominous about this decision today. I think Macs are about to surge in popularity and finally become a force to be reckoned with. Which could be a good and a bad thing. - cjdunn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Uh, no. Dvorak predicted that Apple would ditch OS X altogether.
If Apple did that and became Just Another Windows Box Pusher, I'd ditch them. The hardware is the sizzle, but the OS is the steak. - rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16This is it. The main reason I and many others I know haven't switched is the large investment we have in professional software on the Windows platform--we simply can't afford to buy all new versions of whatever authoring tools we have: graphic design, or 3D animation, or digital music studio, or film pre- and post-, or whatever, and for some of us all of the above.
For many of us, even a cross-platform upgrade is not an option - I still use older versions of much of my software that I know well and runs faster, and I find I usually don't need the "sexy" features that vendors keep bloating up their software with to keep people on the upgrade treadmill. Besides, much of the specialized high-end software I'm talking about is platform specific - Sonar, 3D Max, and many other pro apps are Windows only (just as Pro Tools and other pro applications are Mac only).
In my case, a switch to all-Mac software would cost thousands of dollars that I don't have--and I'm a studio of one; if I had a large shop, it would cost tens or even hundreds of thousands to make the software change, and that is not counting training time to learn new software if there is no Mac version of the old.
AND, this doesn't even address the huge game market--there simply are so many more games available on a Windows platform; many consumers won't switch because, despite console growth, PC gaming is still alive and well.
The ability to run XP apps native on an IntelMac makes a switch relatively painless. What is more, everyone needs to upgrade hardware eventually, so this single small announcement could end up being the most significant market-growing step Apple has *ever* taken with their computer division.
Bravo! - zwei, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22Would have been funny if Apple put this forward in an attempt to win the "Windows on Mac $13,000 pot. Would have also been a great April fools day/30th Anniversary announcement.
- jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23And shortly thereafter it will be available on bit torrent! :-) For all of us to try!!
- Nonsuch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Very canny of Apple, as always: make booting into Windows possible, but not necessarily convenient or quick; they want people spending as much time as possible booted into OS X. They also keep the Mac OS X experience from being sullied by cheap, cruddy Windows apps; you can reboot if you want to use that stuff, Apple figures. But it's just convenient enough to sway a lot of fence-sitters like javatard. Very canny indeed ...
- nigeltufnel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17This is HUGE news. I really thought it was going to be up to MS to create a VPC update. Never in a million years thought Apple would actually create a bootloader.
There is now literally NO excuse not to get a Mac. - arkive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I just canceled my Thinkpad T60 order which has been backordered for over a month and ordered a MacBook Pro.
- CdnPhoto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14This little bit of news is hitting the stock market. AAPL is up over 6.5% premarket.
- frogstik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I am sure that Microsoft is just fine with selling another copy of WinXP to the mac community...
- Sottozero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Remember that Jobs' final mission is to have the Mac win back the PC market; he said so himself shortly after recovering from cancer.
While it seems hip to say that this move is the harbinger of doom for native OSX software, nothing could be further from the truth.
I guarantee today saw a dramatic flood of orders into the Apple Store for Intel iMacs and MBPs, mine among them. For the educated alpha-geek, there is no longer any reason on earth to own a Windows-only machine anymore, unless you have some specialized heavy-lifting need (that the upcoming Intel PMs will presumably address).
Apple now relies on its hardware design and brand momentum to sway fence-sitters and those who need both OSes to perform their tasks. Two machines just became one, which is exactly the safety net many needed. Now, when you buy a Mac, you're not forever entrenched in an alien software universe...but eventually you might be happy to be.
While many Macs will eventually have some form of Windows installed (you'll see more when Boot Camp is out of beta and embedded within Leopard), some of you are forgetting one thing: there will be MANY more pieces of Intel Mac hardware out there, all of which will have OSX. In effect, the OSX market will get much, much larger as sales increase.
From that standpoint, developers will look at the market numbers and realize that OMG, the OSX market is expanding on the basis of hardware installed base in a fashion never before seen. It'll be a renaissance. Even those poor users who bought an Apple just to use Windows (and more on this later), a copy of OSX Tiger/Leopard will be present. Knowing that if they develop truly great software for OSX it will have twice (or greater) the exposure it did before this development, the incentive is certainly there for them to create kickass OSX software. After all, a user will eventually see the difference between a well-oiled OSX experience and one in XP that's, well...XP.
This move works both ways. Yes, some Mac users will have a copy of Windows, but not all. But ALL Intel-based Apple hardware users will have OSX, and you're a fool if you think that Leopard won't have some technology that will absolutely awe staunch fans and prospective switchers alike. We're just seeing the opening credits here; the movie's yet to come.
This is not the end of OSX development, but rather the official kickoff of the Intel era. You want a reason to develop for OSX? Well Mr. Developer, check out our unit sales growth. Check out the neat things Leopard will offer. Check out our expanding Intel-based hardware line. And while you're at it, check out the early reviews of Vista, and here, don't overlook yet another Vista delay announcement.
So, how about that OSX side? Pretty nice, huh?
To an end, Apple is now another boxmaker. A boxmaker with a really kickass homegrown application called OSX. OSX is a killer-app differentiator. This differentiator drives unit sales and provides value add to customers. Unit sales soar, the Mac market expands, there's now OSX in places there wouldn't be normally. Here, Dell and other PC makers suffer huge, because low-margin competition gets its lunch eaten by innovation and great design.
And then: hello Leopard. What do you have for us? You watch -- it won't be mild or boring. My money says Jobs saved the very best stuff for 10.5.
If anyone doubts that Apple was predominately a hardware company, that can be put to rest right now. Hardware penetration into the PC market is THE trojan horse for Apple. In order to execute its larger plan, it needs units installed in the wild. It needs numbers so it can appeal to developers. Anti-MS sentiment has never been higher, and MS has plenty of its own problems with Vista and on other fronts.
Apple is providing very interesting, powerful machines that will provide a cutting-edge OSX experience side-by-side with Windows. If Apple can execute its OSX and homegrown application plan well enough (iLife '07, pro apps), the power of OSX will be horribly apparent next to a dated XP install or a brand-new, non-battle-tested Vista implementation. Users and developers will be able to make their own choice, and baby, it will be ON. No more orphaning Windows apps you might need for some reason, and EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD to explore an increasingly-robust OSX platform. You think Apple won't give you a reason to be interested in OSX?
Think again. Think real hard.
So, for everyone out there who wants OSX on a beige box: forget it. Not gonna happen. Now more than ever Apple is all about their hardware, and thus all about platform control. OSX is so solid and stable because the environment is a known quantity, and Apple will never surrender that advantage. But now the reason to own Apple hardware just increased tenfold, so suddenly the hardware and OSX install base leaps off the page.
Beautiful move. Just brilliant.
And here's the real kicker: since Apple is providing its own drivers for Windows XP SP2 on only a few hardware configurations, it stands to reason that, over time, Windows running on Mac will be one of the most stable iterations out there, simply because Apple (and others) can tune Windows to a very discrete hardware environment. How's that for ironic? Windows running best on a Mac for the very reason Windows users bashed the Mac -- closed hardware.
***** gorgeous. I love it. - frogstik, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Patiently waiting for Half Life 2 specs or something similar... :)
- The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16"Apple has been stuck in the past with it's black box computers refusing to let other OSs work."
Yeah, and that's why Apple didn't give a G5 to Linus Torvalds so he could run/test Linux on it.
Oh, wait... - rkwesq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14My briefcase just became 7.5 lbs. lighter !!!! Bye-Bye Dell :)
- tirion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13You have a real interesting point here.
If Apple made the virtualisation process so seamless that Windows Apps could be run on an OS X environment at full speed, we might see a repeat of what happened to IBM's OS/2. The eventual decimation of their marketshare.
Correct me if I got my facts wrong, but OS/2 which was the OS X of it's time, included virtualisation software that allowed it to run Windows Apps with ease. This disinclined developers to develop software exclusively for the OS/2 or even to port them over leading to it's premature death.
Likewise, if Windows Apps are easily run on OS X, there would be less incentive for software to be ported to it. Good or bad you decide. - breakneckridge, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Do you really not understand what's going on here or are you making a joke?
- mikejohnston, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12No. It's inviting the enemy into your camp so you can slaughter him. Think about it. Once people use OS X, why in the hell would they use Windows XP?
- chiller2002, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13"Now if I could only afford one."
Sounds like you still have one more. ;-) But they are worth every penny. - imnotquitesure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Good, now I can design my websites on a mac and then reboot to test them on a pc without having the clutter and waste of two machines.
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18surely this isn't as bad news for microsoft as people assume. If it helps get Windows XP back on to apple's 2% of the personal computer market share it has to be good. It would be interesting to see how microsoft support respond to being told in a support call that their os is running under boot camp - markedly better than apple would when mac os gets hacked to work under non apple hardware, i bet.
- MinnesotaTwins, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13So does this make that 13,000 contest useless?
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