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Instense: Iraq Soldier Discusses His "Kills" watch!

huffingtonpost.com — In the spring of 2007, a conference was held on the outskirts of Washington, DC. Entitled Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan, it harkened back to the Winter Soldier testimonies held three decades ago during the Vietnam War. Of the testimonies we filmed, this one, by Iraq War vet Jon Michael Turner, was the most compelling and intense.

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  • mjm871, on 05/28/2008, -17/+323Watch how he describes how they acted when a reporter was with them and when one was not. The rest of the panel agrees
    • kirk89, on 05/28/2008, -19/+5yeah i couldnt possibly think they would do anything wrong while reporters were watching...doh

    • cannibaljp, on 05/28/2008, -5/+48we send boys into war, expecting them to act like men.

      we allow them de de-evolve, and when they act like animals - lower than animals in many cases - we are surprised.

      so many years later... we have Shock, and NO Awe.
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/28/2008, -1/+39We don't allow them to de-evolve, we purposely teach them to de-evolve. In order to kill another human being you have to treat that person as a worthless piece of meat with no feelings, no loved ones, nothing but meat. The generals want their men in this crazed state because they will rush into combat without question. You have to be crazy to run directly into the line of fire if ordered to do so, yet our soldiers do so on a regular basis. They are not acting this way because its who they are, rather they (the soldiers) are acting this way because its what they are taught to do.
        • Toddd, on 05/28/2008, -7/+6DEVOLVE! ... ***** monkeys.
        • bruce86, on 05/28/2008, -1/+15Very interesting way of putting it. Interesting because my ultra conservative roommate, believes that the military out there is taught to have a high moral principles and to even disregard orders than goes against their principles, so it is impossible for soldiers to do anything bad.

          I believe his view is just wishful thinking.
        • variablek, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5I love when you expand a reply and find someone has stated exactly what you were thinking.

          I agree with you completely zeus. This type of behavior owes a large part to the way these soldiers have been trained.
      • moonlessrat, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5I believe these boys are encouraged to act like animals and that encouragement comes from very high up the chain. This is a blatant attempt to inflame the problems and resistance to the American occupation and thereby justifying the need for a continued presence.

        If it was all calm and quiet in Iraq it would be difficult to convince the American people to continue to pay a gazillion dollars every other hour for the continued "war" in Iraq. Things are quiet? slaughter a few civilians to rile up the masses.
        Just my opinion.
        • CrazedLeper, on 05/29/2008, -2/+1Well, I got news for you: if you believe in evolution then you approve of this and every war. Survival of the fittest. You get Evolution or morality, not both.
      • 9bpm9, on 05/28/2008, -8/+1I love how people sitting on their asses critique how soldiers act.
      • CrazedLeper, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1You see the commands they were given. Stab someone for a few days off? Different behavior in front of the cameras? How far up the ladder do you think this goes? How could it not go all the way? If they're this bad, how are you *sure* that they wouldn't do it here? Investigate 9/11 for yourself. A serious eye-opener awaits you...if you have the grapes to think for yourself, that is.
      • bakars, on 05/29/2008, -3/+0They ain't child at all. They were just not ready for this kind of attrocities and I think nobody will ever be ready for this kind of crap except someone who can't live in society.
    • hoodratthangs, on 05/28/2008, -1/+20Does anyone know why they shot some of the people, like the man on the bike? Was he a threat or did they just exert agression on arbitrary victims? This makes me question how many kills are actually meaningful.
      • gn0stik, on 05/28/2008, -15/+5every kill is meaningful
        • hoodratthangs, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2not sure what you mean by that
        • Klowner, on 05/28/2008, -0/+13Hopefully in the same sense that every life is meaningful
        • gn0stik, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Of course that's what I meant. Killing someone, regardless of whether or not it's your job, should effect you. It should mean something. I found the assertion that some kills might be meaningless, or better in some way, horrifying. Even in the best case scenario, where the enemy is easily discernible from civilians, and you are fighting for your life, or your way of life, killing someone should mean something. Even when necessary, it should be horrible.

          Of course, we're on digg, so assume the worst.
      • piesforyou, on 05/28/2008, -0/+9He said they shot several people just because they had come from a firefight and were still pumped up.
      • fluxion, on 05/28/2008, -0/+12seems to me he admitted that these kills were purely for ***** and giggles.

        id like to think there was some kind of reasoning behind it, but i think the point is that alot of times there is not. accidental kills happen, but are understandable to some extent. murdering the innocent is something entirely different, and completely undercuts any attempt to contain terrorism.
        • kalii, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Murdering the innocent is terrorism.
        • kosmoX, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1By definition, no it isn't. It is murder.
        • kalii, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1True not by definition but the result is the same.
      • honesttussey, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Holy *****. I'm in the military and if what he says is true then his ass needs to be in jail, along with his CO and senior NCOs.
    • danomagnum, on 05/28/2008, -13/+12Just as many of our soldiers are ***** as they are. It's part of being human.
      • warrenterr, on 05/28/2008, -1/+14Yeah but we invaded.
      • Dystisis, on 05/28/2008, -8/+2There's nothing ***** about being a human, except maybe you.
        • housewarmer, on 05/28/2008, -1/+6No, plenty of humans are ***** - it's part of the human CONDITION jackass. And I do believe your unprovoked insult makes you *****.
        • byronm, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2The last time i checked what made us human wasn't the fact we can/can't be ***** its the fact we have a brain that allows us to do more than be animals of instinct but rather impost our moral/social and critical thinking skills to better have an understanding of our own existence, fate and wellbeing. This video simply proves there are people who like to become animals and whether they will return to being human after they put down their weapons is the concern i have.
        • Dystisis, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0Exactly, byronm gets it.
      • Stormwern, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1It's not part of being human, and it's not a part of who they are, it's the result of being thrown into hostile territory with no plan, no mission and no clear enemy.
    • glowmaster, on 05/28/2008, -3/+58I remember being a Marine in Desert Shield/Storm and saying hello to a reporter in the chow line and got my ass handed to me by a Major for even speaking to him. The reporters didn't get the truth from any source. Nor did they care to. Nor did they have the power to discover it if they cared enough to really try. Americans will not hear the alarm calls over the white noise generators called MASS MEDIA. Gotta pull the plug first...
    • Kyrceck, on 05/28/2008, -20/+18Why are all of you calling this man brave? He's a coward. If it's indeed the truth, he needs to be tried for murder. Unfortunately for the "truth", the "winter soldier" panels are notorious for half-truths, lies, and phony "stories". But regardless, if this man's story is. in fact, true, then he should be sentenced for war crimes, Nobody made him pull the trigger. By saying, "oh, guys wake up, this is the truth", you're essentially dismissing every other marine or soldier's story replacing it with this disgusting one. This guy's a ***** lowlife, he doesn't deserve to hold the title of united states marine. Several of my close family members have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and after showing two this video, they both told me they never witnessed much abuse or anger toward the civilians or holy places. I'm currently enrolled in NROTC and soon will make my way to OCS next summer. Unfortunately, I fear that people will try to paint a very broad stroke and attempt to make this seem like some kind of a common trend throughout the marine corps. All the combat vets I've met and talked with have had very professional attitudes about their jobs, this guy obviously wasn't cut out for the corps and he's a disgrace to every person in uniform.
      semper fi
      • dig1x, on 05/28/2008, -16/+3***** you baby killer.
        • patpl22391, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4You have the honor of being the first person I've ever reported.
      • catting, on 05/28/2008, -8/+3kyrceck has clearly been brainwashed already. typical training exercise
      • TexMexMatt, on 05/28/2008, -5/+8Yet, these stories are coming out every day and we already heard even worse things. People like yourself said the same thing during Vietnam and yet My Lai happened. Denying that these stories never happened doesnt make them less true.
      • Gunite, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3This is why a mission like the one in Iraq can never succeed. Even if "marines" tend to be outstanding human beings (more likely they are simply a reflection of society at large), a percentage will be unstable. If you put an unstable person in a highly stressful life and death environment and arm them to the teeth bad things are going to happen.
      • piesforyou, on 05/28/2008, -5/+4By the sounds of it, if you would try this man for murder then you would have to pull out every single soldier in Iraq and try them for murder too. What he's saying is that there's a fundamental brutality present in Iraq, and it needs to go.
        • gn0stik, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1And what he's saying is that it's not fundamental, that it's isolated to specific companies and individuals. And those who are committing these atrocities should be tried and sentenced as the criminals they are. He's aware of what the guy is saying, he just doesn't agree with it. He doesn't agree with it, because it doesn't jive with what he's been told about what it's like over there by his friends and family who've been over there. If he's right, then they should be tried for murder, and war crimes. Personally, I think they should be tried in Iraq, by Iraqis. Just like Saddam.
      • republicker, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2You sir are brainwashed. Just because someone is in the military does not make them righteous.
    • Ironspork, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4Bravo.
    • nkfallout, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1http://digg.com/politics/NEW_GI_BILL_TO_GIVE_TROOP ...
    • rezist, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2http://digg.com/world_news/Winter_Soldier_Iraq_Afg ...

      I posted this a long time ago... Digg rocks!
    • vic42482, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4I know a guy who just came back from Iraq and showed me videos of him and other guys in a helicopter shooting down innocent civilians with a crazy high caliber machine gun, just cause they were given the order. It was really ***** graphic with blood and body parts flying everywhere. He showed it to me right on his digital camera and covered the bottom of the screen so that I don't see the date and whatever other id numbers they have on there. He said that if the army finds out he has this tape they'll probably make him disappear.
  • mrkgreene, on 05/28/2008, -16/+165Some of the most powerful stuff I've seen yet.
    • jascination, on 05/28/2008, -1/+26It was courageous for him to do it, yet simulatiously horrible to hear.

      As an Australian, I never get to hear stories like this from our troops. The truth is cold and harsh, and while it makes me question the emotional stability of the soldiers involved, moreso it makes me question the sanity of those who sent them there. Thanks for posting.
    • away8907, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3War Kills Hope.
    • NaziHatinChimp, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Um yeah that was real.
    • denizen42, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Indeed.
    • 36CrzyFsts, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2This video surprises you, look at the target age of the military... You think those young men are ready to be put in situations like those, where close friends are getting shot and killed? You expect them to act like rational adults after the only few months they spend getting trained to shoot? The government owns them, you can't go after the individual soldiers for obeying their orders go after the person that issued them. As much as this video is heavy, it's war and as cliche as it is; War isn't pretty...We need to realize what's happening and elect a leader who can handle this and give this country it's honor back. That or perhaps a slightly more attraction foreign policy.
      • getbusyliving, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2Obama '08
      • BlueStarr, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1You try and describe these men as if they were children! The army trained them to be soldiers, not monsters.

        Shut the ***** up with your bias. If you break the law you reap what you sow.
        • 36CrzyFsts, on 06/06/2008, -0/+0You obviously never stepped foot in any armed forces. Army teaches you to shoot. Marines teach you to FOLLOW orders, shoot, some tactical training, etc. I never would describe these men as children but when you are owned by the government you do what you're told. They are taught to follow the orders of their C.O. whom is responsible for their actions. Please educate yourself before telling someone to "shut the ***** up".

    • Naieve, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2What's sad is that everyone is now going to think this murderer is the average US soldier.
    • BlueStarr, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Arrest this mother *****! He's a ***** murdering bastard. You took a life so serve the prison time that is deemed necessary you piece of *****!!!!! You think that by saying you're sorry is enough!?!!

      • Liquiflux, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1Agreed. Minus the profanity. He acted as though the commanding officer is the one who pulled the trigger! Completely ridiculous.
      • 36CrzyFsts, on 06/21/2008, -1/+0You aren't understanding orders....And the concept of being owned by your government....
  • showpup, on 05/28/2008, -30/+5Darn... video not showing up for me
  • vinod1978, on 05/28/2008, -18/+74Some people will just say that "this is war", and while to some extent this is true I believe this war is different. Soldiers do not have a clear idea of why they are there, and why they are killing individuals. They can not even tell sometimes if the target is indeed one of the "bad guys" or one of the "good guys". All they see are their brothers & sisters killed for apparently no reason & no accomplishments.
    • danomagnum, on 05/28/2008, -1/+19It's never really the bad guys who die in wars. It's the people they conscript into fighting for them.
    • origamistars, on 05/28/2008, -1/+10This is also true of the other side.
    • xerosawyer, on 05/28/2008, -2/+17lol ***** that, these guys go in to preemptive and war kill civilians... there is no scapegoating.
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/28/2008, -1/+17No different from Vietnam.
      • kalii, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4True, I use to be in the military 1996-2001 and I remember guys telling me stories of being in helicopters and gunning down Vietnamese villages out of jest, killing women and children as a game.
    • Klowner, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5What happened to the good ol' days when the opposing armies would wear uniforms and line up across from each other?
      • garvallagh, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1One side was able to arm themselves to the teeth and swaggered onto the world stage vowing to crush anyone who opposed them. Everyone else jumped into civvies and grabbed their AK's hoping that by perseverance and manipulation of local media they could force the stronger brute to leave. See N.I for working examples
    • mbraynard, on 05/28/2008, -12/+3"Soldiers do not have a clear idea of why they are there'

      Yes, because they didn't do well in school and are only there because they are idiots. No soldier could possibly have the mental capacity to understand the conflict and form an opinion on it, that's why they keep re-enlisting rather than deserting and protesting the war like all the good people on Digg.

      /moron.
    • ashlocke, on 05/28/2008, -0/+13It's hilarious to see the current and former marines come out and comment on these war crime/anti-war news stories. It's always "where's the proof", "how can you be sure", etc, etc. Where's the proof? Your commander covered it up. Civilian filming of military operations, without consent from the military is rare. Like the man said, they don't act that way when NBC is rolling with them.

      As someone with 4 marines in their family, 3 being former marines(all who served in Iraq) who are going back to school and fully involved in their local veteran's club... Most of These people who work at and attend the veteran's club are beasts. They're trained to be(especially if you're signed for special forces). Ultra-patriotic, 100% liberal conspiracy, far right neo-republican fed sheep. In their mind, they're still in Iraq and Afghanistan, literally. Conversing with these people will lead you to easily believe what these men are saying. I don't doubt a ***** word he said.

      I don't hate military personnel, or believe all of them are like the above. However if you were/are in the military, we both know the type of people I'm talking about.
    • pablo0713, on 05/28/2008, -2/+3Vinod, ***** you and your soldier sympathy. Nobody forced these assholes to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned, every ***** soldier should rot in hell for the murders they've committed. They are not heroes. Just a bunch of addicts of violence raised on video games and gangsta rap. They deserve nothing but the piece of ***** I'll be throwing at their parade when they all come home. Old men start wars but stupid young men go and fight them. Dumbasses.
    • tpaine, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2People are right when they say "that's just part of war" ... but not for the reason they think. The truth is that these things happen in all wars even the ones with the best of intentions. This does not defend their actions, rather it imputes war as a way of solving problems.

      Violence begets violence. It doesn't solve anything.
      • mempko, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1Thank you Sr. When you commit violence in the name of good, you guarantee doing harm, but do not guarantee doing good.
    • Existenz87, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1The thing is due to mass media we have all this information. We have not had that many soldiers die in this war compared to Vietnam. It is unlikely we will experience another full scale war because of mass media. People are freaked out by a few thousand casualties in Iraq. Magnify that times 100. We would have full scale protests in EVERY small town and every city at the least if not rioting. It would probably never get to that stage because if we had a draft people would flip the ***** out. In my opinion this is just the tip of the iceberg. We just can see more of the iceberg now than in previous wars. And thank god I don't have to be there to see it in person. Thanks troops.
  • krts, on 05/28/2008, -28/+59I have no words for this.
  • sb1848, on 05/28/2008, -23/+254this needs to be shown to 300 million americans. it is time to wake up.
    • diggrnumber1, on 05/28/2008, -25/+12stop saying "wake up." god damn, it's getting annoying. can't you guys think of another phrase to use instead of that ridiculously cliched one?
      • bashar129, on 05/28/2008, -4/+22This needs to be shown to 300 million Americans. It is time to snap out of it.
        • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -2/+16No, this will not have any serious impact on attitudes toward the war. People who still support it think there's absolutely nothing wrong with shooting moslems and blowing up mosques. If anything, they'll just get pissed at the guy in the video and call him commie *****.
        • briandeloach, on 05/28/2008, -6/+5Good enough. Anything is better than "wake up".
      • Blah_Blah_Blah, on 05/28/2008, -3/+8how about, "wake the ***** up"
      • ramunenke, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3if the shoe fits
      • crackedlogic, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4this needs to be shown to 300 million americans. it is time to smurf.
    • dafragsta, on 05/28/2008, -0/+9It won't be. The media is nervous enough about the war.
    • eviscero, on 05/28/2008, -15/+2Wake up to socialism & isolationism?

      No thanks. We'll leaving being King Pussy Insolvent to the Eurotrash.

      We'll be busy ensuring our society exists despite it's inhabitants (and benefactors) wishing to dismantle it.
      • boobsbr, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1what are you talking about? go see a head doctor.
    • blarch, on 05/28/2008, -0/+23 other Winter Soldiers that i would recommend are Adam Kokesh, Jason Lemieux, and Mike Prysner.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5ZUfpxnV0 (prysner p1)
    • Puppyfam, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3I agree; these kinds of actions are completely unacceptable, and every effort needs to be made to stop this from happening.

      However, the right pushes back whenever an issue like this is brought up, usually because the default "answer" is "pull out of Iraq." That simply is pushing off the issue; it isn't a solution.

      The solution must be a complete overhaul of our armed forces, rooting out the bad officers who encourage this behavior, reexamining our training regimen to find flaws, and offering support to our soldiers so they don't feel the need to shoot up a mosque to take out their aggression.
    • Dred, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4Yes, wake up and convict the guy who just admitted to war crimes. Instead, everyone is treating him like a hero for speaking out. He never said that he was told to kill the people in the video, he just said he was awarded later. Who knows what kind of stories he made up to cover his ass. Like he is obviously doing now. If he was ordered to do it then why didn't he stand up then and refuse, because he is a COWARD. A crying shame that this is the kind of men in the military now, makes me ashamed to be a veteran.
      • Puppyfam, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1They probably don't want to discourage whistle-blowers from speaking out... An understandable problem.
  • Lagger, on 05/28/2008, -23/+193why are we still there?
    • ElAssoWipo, on 05/28/2008, -5/+68You're killing for democracy.

      Is it democracy still? Or is it to fight off insurgents? Al Qaeda? OH I know, you're killing for peace! No, national security. Or was it a "civil war" you were fighting against?

      Anywho, I'm sure they'll find more reasons when the present one stops making sense too.
      • LittleDas, on 05/28/2008, -2/+16I'm pretty sure they have nuclear weapons.
        or at least-
        they had them before they didn't!
    • ordig, on 05/28/2008, -5/+29so our corporations can make money.
      • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -5/+3It's not working then.
        • LittleDas, on 05/28/2008, -1/+11I wrote my last macro-econ research paper on the iraq war as a possible example of colonialism. It doesn't take any special genius to recognize that the natural resources of Iraq in Oil alone are worth about 20-40 times the current cost of the war.

          Maybe that wasn't the reason we went to Iraq, maybe it was, but with a permanent military presence we have an absolute guarantee that they won't be nationalizing it any time soon. American companies do stand to make an impressive profit in the long term.
        • danomagnum, on 05/28/2008, -6/+6And what? you think just because we're there we get the resources? Wtf? The natural resources here are worth thousands of times the cost of the war. Seriously, just because gas is getting more expensive doesn't mean that the war is about oil. I would give 200:1 odds that bush is doing it for silly religious reasons rather than oil.
        • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -3/+2What discount rate are you applying though? It will be decades before its oil infrastructure is functioning well enought to generate a respectable income stream.
        • anachronaut, on 05/28/2008, -1/+10You're thinking small, you're just thinking oil. Think depleted, destroyed or outdated weapons and vehicles that will need to be replaced or updated. Think supply, security, interrogation, construction, trucking, aviation, IT, etc. Halliburton/KBR, Bechtel, Fluor... none of these are oil companies yet all of them are making big, BIG money in Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

          Big business always loves a war -- but even moreso when a lot of it has been privatized.
        • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -4/+3You're talking about a very narrow sector of "big business." The US stock market has had the slowest growth rate of any world stock market since 9/11 except Thailand. ***** Pakistan's index has growth FIFTEEN-fold. Wall Street is sick of Bush and has almost completely ditched the Republican party because of how badly they've ***** the bed.
        • byronm, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3May be a narrow view of "big business" but the fact is its the very business our administration currently has its paws in. Put 2 and 2 together. The companies much of our right wing administration out right own, work for or are involved in through family legacy are the very businesses profiting from the war. Is that hard to understand?
      • SchmuckofNI, on 05/28/2008, -2/+4Try the Federal Reserve and the International Bankers. They are the only ones profiting from this war.
      • bot001220, on 05/28/2008, -2/+1Don't forget that Israel now has access to Iraq's freshwater!

        Yay! Funny how that was never reported in the US media, but was reported pretty much everywhere else.
    • jaymzdean, on 05/28/2008, -1/+6because we haven't stood up and demanded it.
      • orlyfactor, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3Exactly. There are no protests like during Vietnam - people are too complacent. It's ridiculous.
        • PigGeneral, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1No draft. Americans aren't forced to fight the war on a personal level.
    • GhostyBoy, on 05/28/2008, -2/+16Because we bought the biggest lie in history, and we are still making payments on it.
      • ssn697, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5took forever and a day for this comment to load for me, but I couldn't let it pass...
      • pagno, on 05/28/2008, -1/+8The register hasnt even finished printing the receipt on this one.
    • RomanThommassen, on 05/28/2008, -8/+1you are retarded, you are there cos the neocons want you to be there.
    • Exekutor, on 05/28/2008, -7/+2Because people is still riding bicycles, just look at his third kill.
    • muzy, on 05/28/2008, -6/+1Economy!!!
    • CrazedLeper, on 05/29/2008, -1/+1because some Iraqis are still alive. Also, oil. China has money, and the US has none. China can't have money and oil too.
  • Gillos, on 05/28/2008, -24/+116This type of thing has happened on almost every front of every single war. It is human nature, even with the best of training and intentions things like this happen in war. The best guy you know is capable of every act that brave man in the video just described, if they were placed in certain situations for certain amounts of time. If you live it, you will either succumb to the group mentality, die, or rise above it. But sadly, very few ever do rise above the hate and the fear. And if they do have the courage to do so they are usually ostracized, or assaulted, or killed for doing what they thought was right. Either by the enemy, or by their own people. "I was just following orders" is the excuse and the reason behind so many atrocities.
    • iancgi, on 05/28/2008, -16/+33Im sorry but you are dead wrong. It is not human nature to kill innocent life. As he said, "This type of action was encouraged by our superiors." Soldiers are trained to take orders, and that's all they were doing. Only now when they reflect do they realize the horror.
      • diggrnumber1, on 05/28/2008, -5/+6this is a question for psychology, not your emotions
      • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -1/+15http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
      • karel747, on 05/28/2008, -2/+12It may be a mix of both situational human nature and appeal to authority. The Stanford Prison Experiment showed that normal people left to their own supervision can indeed do terrible things depending on their situation, as opposed to their disposition; this can apply to the superiors, or maybe to a smaller degree to the individual soldiers as well. On the other hand, the Milgram Experiment shows that normal people can also do terrible things when an authority tells them to.

        Human nature is far too complicated to apply any single motive to this type of behavior. The whole situation is *****, regardless of how you look at it.

        I wish things could be different.
      • danomagnum, on 05/28/2008, -2/+3I'm afraid it is.
      • Bamont, on 05/28/2008, -5/+7"Encouraged by superiors" is not the same thing as "Ordered by Superiors".

        You know, I hate to be cynical here, and I am against the war - but its really nice, after this kid took all these lives he was aware were innocent, that he can go and sit in a nice auditorium in the United States of America, sit around with other people who agree with him and his views, and almost apologize for the things he did.

        Sorry if I don't have any sympathy for him or if I'm not moved by his story. Being encouraged to take an innocent life, no matter the circumstance, should jolt somebody's moral compass. And I know that some of you will line up behind the block to defend this kid because he *agrees* with many of your views about the war. If you were just listening to him be interviewed in another place, another time, another situation, that wasn't against the war - how many of you would honestly be as moved by his story, as opposed to being just simply out-raged?

        Being unbiased has never been one of Digg's strong points.

        "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
        -Burke
        • Naieve, on 05/28/2008, -4/+2I agree, and that quote is one of my favorite.

          The kid is a murderer, he just admitted to it in public.

          What's sad, is everyone who sees it will believe this kid is the average soldier, in an average unit.

          He is not.
        • bexamous, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Blah, look at your own post. The ending quote of yours is a little ironic as your post seems to be looking the other way.

          "There's no problem here, this kid is just bad and should be punish-- problem solved."

          Lets dismiss anything he says as he is just a bad person and that explains everything.

          What happens in war? Is anything this kid is saying really that new? Hey we all voted for our representatives and we all voted for Bush and gave them power to go to War... is everyone not to blame for the consequences? Or is it just this kids fault?

          If this kid is so uniquely bad how did he end up in the army? Does our military give a gun to anyone? Who's fault is that?

          Yeah this kid is so bad... how did he stay in the army for so long? No one noticed him going around killing people?

          Military wants soldiers to have an easy time killing someone... that has always been a big problem of that soldiers wouldn't want to shoot... military fixed that and these days no one has problems killing. But its the kids problem he killed someone? You said a kid to war that is trained to kill people what do you expect to happen?

          How long does it take to sentence someone to death in the US? Complicated process. Yet we expect to send kids off to another country and determine right and wrong in a matter of seconds?

          If you try you can place blame all over. You can say this single kid is just a bad person and look, justice has been brought. The real problems go on unchanged.

    • Jimmerz, on 05/28/2008, -1/+10Whether you are right or 'iancgi' is right about the nature of war isn't important. Fact is war should always be a last resort, this war wasn't, and now it's a goddamned mess.
    • source1984, on 05/28/2008, -3/+0no
    • Hefelumpman, on 05/28/2008, -1/+11"things like this happen in war" Is not an excuse, nor does it absolve anyone of these acts.
    • CabesMojo, on 05/28/2008, -2/+6I many friends who have served and none of them have stories like this, even at their worst. Even when it came to them breaking down and sharing things they really didn't want to. Not every soldier over there does this, from men on the ground the first day to ones just getting back now.
      • Aitese, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2Then In don't think it's a matter of the character of the individual soldier but the character of the superior officer...he would be influenced by who ever his superior officer was and so on.
    • vodkataime, on 05/28/2008, -2/+5This pig needs to be thrown into jail. I don't give a ***** about "orders" or being repentant after you've done it. You always have a choice to say no.
    • Fershizzll, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2BRAVE?! BRAVE?!
      How can you possibly justify that statement? You, the war and the needless violence are completely and inconceivably wrong, merely hiding behind a call of 'bravery' is not enough to make these atrocities worth while. I can't stand your blatant ignorance and naivety, what sort of impression do you think this has other countries? No wonder so many people hate America, all the while you think you're bringing peace.
    • ciaran036, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3Human nature my ass... You're telling me it's normal for men to be trained and manipulated into murdering innocent people in Iraq?
  • Xfrost4, on 05/28/2008, -21/+60I look down upon the soldier who wants to go to Iraq just to kill, harass, an innocent person just because it makes them feel good. They aren't better than the terrorist. I know some people that think like that, and no I am not anti-American, I just want the ***** war to be over, can't we all just live in peace, *****!
    • joegibes, on 05/28/2008, -4/+22Reporter: "What do you feel when you kill a terrorist?"
      Soldier: "Recoil."
      • dig1x, on 05/28/2008, -2/+9The people Americans are killing in Iraq are not Terrorists. They are Iraqi Patriots.
        • patpl22391, on 05/28/2008, -11/+6The Al Qaeda propaganda machine in full swing today?
        • housewarmer, on 05/28/2008, -1/+8You do know that Al Qaeda is a minor player in Iraq. Last I heard the Iraqis hate those ***** almost as much as we do.
    • kgool, on 05/28/2008, -4/+6Yeah, if we just leave Iraq (which I am all for) peace will just flourish. ***** that, it is a messed up world and we are in it. Yeah, we need to get the ***** out of Iraq, but to think peace is coming is just juvenile. It is not and even if we stay the hell out of the world's affairs (which we will never do) there will still be hate and envy and enemies.

      *****, people cannot even live in peace when they share beliefs and live a few miles apart, so it is naive to think they will when borders and ideologies clash.
      • Ortheos, on 05/28/2008, -4/+5There was peace before you went into iraq, logic dictates that there will be peace when you leave.
        • NoStoppingUs, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2...define 'peace'?

          maybe we should ask the kurds for their definition of peace....
        • iknowbob, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1there hasnt been peace in iraq for years before we entered...look it up
      • ciaran036, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3A messed up world we live in - but it won't be messed up if you stop thinking so negatively! Think positive!

        People CAN live in peace and share beliefs - look at N.Ireland - years of sectarian violence and almost civil war between Catholics and Protestants has now ended. Protestants and Catholics are starting to live with each other and go to the same schools! N.Ireland is a model for the rest of the world! Sure, the British still have N.Ireland - but only because they bribed us with lots of money! Union jack or not N.Ireland is very developed and affluent now!

        If it can happen in N.Ireland it can happen in Iraq!
      • Elwood19k20, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Look what happened after we ran away from Vietnam. Now they are a peaceful nation and and ally.
    • DalamarArgent, on 05/28/2008, -1/+8It's not that they aren't better than terrorists; they ARE terrorists. There is no difference between someone in a uniform cruising around town in their Humvee, killing civilians as though they are popping deer out of the back of their Ford Ranger and someone in street clothes who walks into a crowd with a dynamite strapped to his chest. At least one of them takes himself out with his atrocities.
    • bingostud722, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1America, ***** yea
    • tk0680, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5I'd say someone as you describe is _worse_ than a terrorist. At least a terrorist, in their own warped, deluded way, thinks they're fighting the good fight (watch me get buried for daring to suggest that).
  • EvilAmerican, on 05/28/2008, -52/+24So this guy went to Iraq and alleges to have done bad things. I dont see the point of this. If he feels an overriding guilt that compels him to share these stories with the world, perhaps he should turn himself in and confess to the military authorities. Short of this, he is staining the reputations of many and providing fodder for the enemy that he fought.
    • jon30041, on 05/28/2008, -4/+17Like they don't already know what our military is doing over there? People talk, they have cell phones and cameras and all that lovely stuff to show each other the atrocities inflicted on them by our guys. He's staining the reputations of many? The only reputations of worth with those still alive are world war 2 vets and that one remaining world war 1 vet.

      America ***** up.
    • VanD, on 05/28/2008, -3/+7Wow, completely missed it.

      He is coming forward to inform the people of the world.
      People only hear what the media tells them, and what the media tells the people is not always the truth.
      He is giving the world a first hand account of what actually happens and hopefully people will now investigate the on goings of what is being done.

      "When you own the information you can bend it all you want"
      - John Mayer
      • getbusyliving, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Un-dugg for your John Mayer quote.
    • TantrooM, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4Well, with the first 'kill' there was obvious pressure from the higher up, who should be turned in, however, after I heard the reasoning for the bike kill. There were no orders, no reason. Then it goes down to him, because he fired the bullet, only if he had a gun pressed to his head should he have done such a thing. Maybe they need some "Above the influence" commercials to deal with peer pressure on the front lines? And aggression? Taking it out on other things... is wrong, and should be a dishonorable discharge.

      Or maybe make it required for a reporter of some kind to escort the squads.
    • rckxxmedk, on 05/28/2008, -0/+6Turn himself into the military authorities?
      Sure, he'll turn himself into the Company Commander who gave incentive to the troops to kill with a knife. Part of the problem of his actions is more or less condoned and even encouraged by the military, and even larger, the administration.

      Though individuals are responsible their actions in war, much like the Nuremberg trials, the policies set forth by the elected officials (secretary of defense, president, etc) and the support of the Pentagon are much more to blame.

      In my recent experience in Iraq, such policies have actually been looked down upon. The top commander in Iraq has forbidden torture of Iraqis, while the administration has encouraged it. Current rules of engagement dictate a reactive, not proactive, policy with the locals which hopefully lessens the tension. During the initial engagement of the war, it was "blow everything up." It worked out great, especially since we were fighting an actual Iraqi military. It appears that mentality has carried over from fighting an Iraqi army into a band of unprofessional insurgents which is not distinguishable from the civilians. This led to the spike of violence during 04-06, however, with the 'surge' and new reactive policy where we're trying help the civilians, and take a more "police stance", we have seen dividends pay off in the recent lull in violence.

      My deepest sympathies to this Marine who had to go through what he did, but one thing I did learn in war is that war strips your humanity away. And sometimes, to regain some sort of feeling of humanity, you have to take others away. Its not a rational thing, its emotional. It also keeps you physically alive, and mentally sane... while you fight.

      • kgool, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2Man, I wish I could digg up up 10 times. Thank your for this post, though it will probably fall on deaf ears around here.
  • mikesbaker, on 05/28/2008, -18/+6great vid

    original sans huf post spam:
    http://newsproject.org/
  • mikesbaker, on 05/28/2008, -6/+32you tube link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN7tBGQZwgY
    • nickstang, on 05/28/2008, -6/+1thanks for the link to the same video we just watched but with captions.
    • wracker92, on 05/28/2008, -3/+6Thanks for the YouTube link. I can't stand giving hits to Huffington Post. The daily spam from that site is one of the worst things about Digg these days.
    • slaizer, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2The whole Winter Soldier (~30mins): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_f3WPvzU4&feature ...

      There's similar stories from other soldiers too, it's a good watch.
  • smartass007, on 05/28/2008, -27/+94nothing like turning loose a bunch of 19 year olds with their automatic weapons to cure all of the world's ills and injustices.

    democracy and walmart for everyone!
    • Sil369, on 05/28/2008, -14/+4walmart? lol
    • solid12345, on 05/28/2008, -7/+5Actually I love Wal-Mart, no more going to ma and pa stores where everything is out of stock and the old bastard behind the counter pushes his finger on the meat scale to suck a few extra pennies out of you.
      • byronm, on 05/28/2008, -2/+4So now you get some grunt using a meat scale that has never been calibrated and blowing his nose on his sleeve pushing "meat" down your throat so full of hormones and water that that the comparison is moot to begin with.
      • SquigglyP, on 05/29/2008, -0/+2Walmart and a few other companies like them are going to eventually own so much of this country that they will be the country. It's great for Walmart that Walmart is so huge, but they are driving a lot of business out of business, and not just supermarkets and places that sell things. Distribution, shipping, clothing manufacturers, electronics manufacturers, farmers... practically every other industry in this country are affected by Walmart's growth. So while you may think Walmart is really nice and convenient, eventually it's going to be pretty hard to find a job that isn't somehow Walmart related. Walmart, gas stations and manufacturing plants. That's the future of this country in a few decades if people don't wise the ***** up, and it's already the reality for a lot of places.
    • pablo0713, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Kids raised on video games and gangsta rap....losers.
      • SquigglyP, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1No... raised by non-existent parents who just tossed them into daycare or left them alone because they simply couldn't deal with children. The USA is a country where you must have dual incomes to support a family unless you're either very rich or very very poor. You either have to have a father or mother who is never there because they are working two jobs, or you have to have both parents gone for the majority of the day. Then, when their parents are home, the children are ignored in favor of TV. The children are indoctrinated into a culture of greed and self-indulgence. Even ***** like Digg, while information is great and should be spread around, is an environment where you can choose to censor information you don't like or agree with. This is all indicative of a generation who would rather allow this mindless killing to continue than to admit their own mistakes, or it's indicative of a generation which simply doesn't believe it can make mistakes.
  • il2k3, on 05/28/2008, -19/+271...and we wonder why they hate us.
    • chipwalker, on 05/28/2008, -13/+6no we dont
    • romistrub, on 05/28/2008, -11/+5Who wonders?
    • SchmuckofNI, on 05/28/2008, -1/+7...and because we are there.
    • solid12345, on 05/28/2008, -11/+5Actually I wonder why they hate themselves, more Iraqis are being killed by OTHER Iraqis than by US troops
      • tazB, on 05/28/2008, -3/+5WTF, here we go again with another douchebag making ***** out of his ass.

        4 letters buddy, S T F U.

        • solid12345, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Watch the news sometime buddy, Iraqis are being killed by car bombs, snipers and explosives by insurgent groups
        • kalii, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1They weren't doing this before we got there. Basic result of imperialism establish a democratic or should I say Hippocratic state then watch as the various indigenous tribes fight and vie for political power.

          People forget we had a civil war in this country as well and we were of the same religion and race.
        • solid12345, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1"They weren't doing this before we got there."

          So I guess the Kurdish and Shiite uprisings against Saddam don't count?
      • SquigglyP, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1As tho that was some sort of argument? We shouldn't be killing ANY of them, we shouldn't even ***** be there. That said, here in America more Americans are killed by other Americans than any other nationality. It's probably like that in every country. You want to look at some statistics, you should check out population percentages and death statistics in areas occupied by the US in the months before and after occupation occurred.
    • Andyl194, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5I never really wondered why they hated us I always thought it was obvious.
  • honutt, on 05/28/2008, -10/+123This makes me very, very sad.
    • LessThanDan, on 05/28/2008, -1/+8One of the things that particularly irked me - besides the killing of innocent people - was how they took out their anger on that mosque. As one who likes to study world religions, I think the Islamic mosques in the middle east are beautiful pieces of architecture associated with a religion that is based on nonviolence and worship. I died a little inside to see it pierced by gunfire.
      • killtrocity, on 05/28/2008, -7/+2Shooting at religious structures is wrong, but...

        Nonviolence and worship. Pfft.
        • Ortheos, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5Yeah if only islam had aircraft carriers and guided missiles. Then it would be the religion of peace.
    • Blah_Blah_Blah, on 05/28/2008, -2/+7I agree with LessThanDan, but this made me more than sad, i was INFURIATED. Maybe it's because i'm Middle Eastern, but i can't even imagine how i would feel if i was Iraqi, or if i was an Iraqi over there right now, or if i was the father of the "fat man" who had just been killed for NO ***** REASON right there in front of me...

      i am absolutely disgusted
      • Alexandru25, on 05/28/2008, -3/+4Were you infuriated and disgusted when Moselims destroyed thousand year old Buddha statues in Afghanistan and televised it? How about when Albanian and Checyan Moselims destroy Orthodox churches in Serbia and Russia? My guess would be no.
        • byronm, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2oh yeah, the Christians NEVER did anything wrong. They never blew up FBI buildings, they never have compounds and burn themselves to death, they never went rape/pilliging/plundering civilizations because they believe in deities. Hell, true christians probably celebrated the destruction of the statues because they're not statues of gods they believe in.

          Crusades Buddy.
        • Blah_Blah_Blah, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3actually, YES, i am always disgusted when i see Muslims doing things that misrepresents Islam. Any other questions?
    • ciaran036, on 05/28/2008, -1/+1Initially sad - but happy because you know that there are people out there who are standing up against this! Peace is on our way! As long we don't take the news seriously, we won't fall victim to any more problem-reaction-solution wars....
  • ZeroOrDie, on 05/28/2008, -25/+19I posted this on a bulletin on myspace and asked a couple of friends to repost, and its started a chain bulliten. Hopefully it gets big. More people need to see this. I suggest you guys do the same on social networking sites. ;)
    • Sil369, on 05/28/2008, -4/+15yes master
      • nickert0n, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2Its important. Mockery aside, sometimes things are worth organizing a seconds of our free time for the right reasons.
    • hmunkey, on 05/28/2008, -9/+14Ooo MySpace bulletins, folks, we have some serious stuff going on here!
      • jongam, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5Hey, it's a better use for MySpace bulletins than a little survey with questions asking what color socks the person is wearing.

        *** If you don't repost this 5 times with the title "I killed Osama" something really bad will happen to U in the next week ***
    • hmcook87, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4ewww myspace... is that cesspool of web design still operating?
  • CrazyArcher, on 05/28/2008, -6/+45That was intense. It's just...*****.
  • gitonga, on 05/28/2008, -15/+34I love this country, but we are so ***** up right now...
    • JAFFA, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5There's nothing wrong with loving your country. Its recognising what's wrong with your country thats important. Many Americans blindly support the administration and whatever is done in America's name.

      True patriots will tear down whats wrong and rebuild it.
    • tk0680, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1I think a lot of Americans would love their country no matter what it did, which is the biggest problem you guys have. American can do wrong, and needs to be bitchslapped by its population when it does so instead of everying hiding behind the flag.

      The post above mine is 100% correct.
  • aliveonarival, on 05/28/2008, -5/+22i am a very, very non-emotional individual but for some reason watching this just shook me to my core and gave me goosebumps. Intense is a huge understatement
  • coachmcguirk, on 05/28/2008, -4/+80Wow... I was skeptical.. but you're right, that was instense.
  • mrzack, on 05/28/2008, -20/+27spelled Intense wrong.
    • joegibes, on 05/28/2008, -3/+11spelled Instense right.
    • Bulletbillx, on 05/28/2008, -0/+11It might be a new word meaning insanely intense.
  • knumbknuts, on 05/28/2008, -72/+81What a ***** douchebag. What a disgrace to the Marines. He killed innocent men and is admitting it, freely?

    Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? Is he a victim?

    What the ***** am I missing with our victim-based culture? Is this guy some kind of hero now that he's standing up and telling the truth?

    If he were a hero, he'd turn himself in to the J.A.G. for war crimes. He's the worst kind of pussy.

    The Universal Code of Military Justice has procedures to follow if he believes an order is illegal. I didn't even hear him say that he was following illegal orders... only that he was congratulated for a kill and that his machine gunning partner was as bad as he. He didn't say what he related to his company commander about the kill... I doubt he said: "Hey, LT, I just killed a fat guy in cold blood."

    He probably only has the courage to say that now, to a buncha journos.
    • sean2112, on 05/28/2008, -17/+2It's kind of pressuring because the person in charge (a ***** ass hole) would probably beat you.

      • knumbknuts, on 05/28/2008, -1/+4You watch too many Hollywood movies. Beating isn't even allowed in boot camp now, nor has it been for decades.

        No officer is going to risk that in his jacket. Maybe a loose cannon, one-tour noncom.

        The worst he might possibly have felt is peer pressure.
        • daEvan, on 05/28/2008, -4/+4What about the atheist who received death threats and many accusations from his commanding officer and fellow soldiers? This ***** really does happen.
        • inigomntoya, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3From what I hear - its not the drill sergeant that do the beating anymore. If some private is mouthing off during drills and getting the rest of the crew in to trouble - they hold a blanket party that night ala Full Metal Jacket.
        • gofalcons, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5Obviously you've never been in the military. First of all, no one calls it boot camp anymore. Second of all, you're talking about a combat zone with guys with combat stress, PTSD and who've all of a sudden become different people from what war has done to them, holding semi-automatic and automatic weapons. I call that a little more than peer pressure. Any decision that you make, especially as an officer, affects life and death not only for civilians, but for you fellow soldiers and subordinates as well. Whatever orders you decide not to follow, especially if it just so happens that that little kid you stopped your convoy for turns out to be a decoy for an ambush that kills three of your soldiers, will come back to haunt you, not only in your dreams, but with your fellow soldiers being pissed at you or just plain blaming you. IEDs, gunfire, seeing your buddies die, It's easy to lose your head with that kind of pressure on your shoulders.

          So maybe you should think before you speak or actually experience it first hand before you come back with "Oh, it's just peer pressure, he's just being a victim and wants sympathy". Because with the way you were talking in your last comment, your username suits you well.

        • knumbknuts, on 05/28/2008, -3/+4Actually, gofalcons, I was in the military when it was called bootcamp colloquially (I was an officer and they didn't call it that, for us, I guess the proper term you are looking for is basic training. wup de do). I separated with an honorable discharge and service-related disability (though it's nothing compared the missing limbs our boys and girls are coming home with).

          My username was given me by Gunnery Sgt. Hudson, USMC, and I bear the moniker proudly, because it reminds me of the honor of those with whom I had the chance to serve.

          How about you? When were you in? Remember, the latest Call of Duty does not count.

          Nice try at the personal attack, try again.
        • sean2112, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2I don't think killing civilians is either.
        • gofalcons, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Actually I was just promoted to 1LT, serving with the 111th EOD Group in Opelika Alabama, but good try anyway. Oh and I'm an officer and it was still called basic training for me when I first joined, then I went through ROTC and got my gold bar. I'm still trying to understand how a military man could make such a stupid comment like you did before. How bout instead of just focusing on one part of my comment, you explain what you said earlier.
    • Hindermore, on 05/28/2008, -12/+24It's easy to judge someone when you don't have IED's going off all around you with bullets whizzing by your head. Combat stress can seriously mess people up. I'm not saying that it justifies his actions, but it definitely contributes to the bad decisions that our commanders and troops on the ground are making.
      • sean2112, on 05/28/2008, -6/+2I agree
      • knumbknuts, on 05/28/2008, -8/+18No, sparky, wrong is wrong. What he did is wrong. Many troops have endured much worse and conducted themselves within the rules of engagement.

        And he should turn himself it to the authorities, not whine about his misfortune to a bunch of reporters.

        I'm just going to lump you right in there with him, for even coming close to justifying him.
        • Hindermore, on 05/28/2008, -4/+4I never said what he did was right. Of course it was wrong and I agree that he should be prosecuted for war crimes. But imagine seeing your best friend or family member murdered right before your eyes. Are you saying that wouldn't incite any kind of rage in you at all and perhaps cause you to do something you would regret? Unfortunately, war isn't all black and white. The only thing left to do is go the ***** home.
      • Phlag, on 05/28/2008, -0/+10While I would like to say that when suffering that kind of pressure I wouldn't take it out on innocent people, I can't say that for sure. However, this guy clearly had no respect for these people before the IEDs started detonating. He got "***** you" in Arabic tattooed on his "choking hand" before he set foot in Iraq. Long before he saw any combat, he knew the sort of ***** he was going to do.

        Regardless of the motives for their actions, that they're happening at all is all the more reason for us to get the ***** out of Iraq. But I maintain that this soldier seemed like he was a violent, disrespectful *****-up before Iraq. Some of that is expected from the sort of people who join the military, but not to the degree he exhibited.
      • hmcook87, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3yep, combat is certainly an extremely stressful enviroment, thats why I'm not a soldier, I'd probably flip out and gun down anything that moved. But this guy WAS a soldier, presumably he could handle combat situations without loosing it, otherwise what the hell was he doing there in the first place.
        • gofalcons, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1You don't know how you'll react in war until you get there. We're not some superhuman unstoppable force, we're people, just like you, who have been trained on how to fight it. All the training in the world can't prepare you for bullets actually flying at your head and knowing that every breath you take could be your last.
    • source1984, on 05/28/2008, -11/+26hey idiot, in case you haven't noticed our media doesn't get HALF the atrocities that take place in Iraq. You turn on Arab news for a few minutes and you hear the stories from THEIR SIDE, of all the innocent people killed by trigger happy American troops and "accidents."
      • knumbknuts, on 05/28/2008, -3/+9Do you see me taking the side of those trigger happy, murderous troops, especially this, self-admitted one?

        ***** moron. learn to read.

        Guys like this betray humanity, starting with victims and ending with their squadmates, at least the ones that are trying to do the right thing.
      • Rage67, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2this video isn't supposed to stereotype the war...
        it's supposed to show that things do happen that shouldn't
        and that something really does need to be done to stop it.

        Besides... would you even really listen to someone who was just
        watching it happen? no, you wouldn't, because that would be called
        watching the news, and we usually just end up changing the channels
        now don't we?
      • solid12345, on 05/28/2008, -3/+3Yeah and how about the murderous Saudi and native Iraqi foreigners who drive into Baghdad with truck bombs and blow up crowded shopping markets? Yet the international leftist scum call these guys "freedom fighters"? What a joke.
      • Naieve, on 05/28/2008, -1/+3The problem with Arab news is that half the time it turns out to be lies.
        One day the Lebanese President is talking in front of the UN accusing the Israeli's of a 40 person massacre, the next day he retracts the story because no one died only one person was injured. That's the literal truth.
        • source1984, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0Theres A LOT of death going on at that side of the world. its not uncommon for someone to get some reports here or there. Remember how many people died on 9/11 -- 4000 or even 5000??? Yea, thats what I mean.

          Besides, Israel is very trigger happy -- their troops kill many civilians on countless operations. Sometimes its clearly deliberate.
    • rabbid1, on 05/28/2008, -9/+31Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

      In a controlled experiment, 65% of people would deliver a lethal shock to someone, just because they are told to by a researcher. Studies in social psychology like this experiment show that social influences and authority figures have far more influence on individual behavior than most would assume.

      In the case of these soldiers, they are systematically prepared through military training to kill, and encouraged by their CO's to kill. They are manipulated by the system of authority and the perceived social norms that promote the killing of Iraqis.

      And while you might deny that any good person or your family or friends would kill an innocent man, Milgram's Experiment has been reproduced today with the same results - 65% of us would kill an innocent under the right conditions.

      While what he has done is ***** horrible and makes me feel sick to my stomach, his decision to speak out rather than remain silent and let the killing of innocents continue is vital.
    • barkus, on 05/28/2008, -1/+32Speaking out does not absolve his actions. I think most people would consider his actions pretty much unforgivable (himself included). But that doesn't mean he can't do the right thing now.
      • kevptim, on 05/28/2008, -4/+2Offing himself would be a good ***** place to start, don't you think?
      • nikoliko66, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5The right thing would be turning himself over for war crimes.
    • romeclone, on 05/28/2008, -2/+21Trust me, you're not missing anything. This marine was clearly off the reservation. Absolutely astonishing that anyone supports this ***** for murdering innocent people and not following orders (firing on a Mosque). "It's all the Wars' fault" - God forbid we actually take responsibility for our own actions.
    • TantrooM, on 05/28/2008, -2/+19I'm gonna have to agree with knumbknuts on this one. If he didn't follow the rules of engagement and his is actually sorry for it, he would turn himself in. He killed people, so shouldn't he sacrifice PART of his life in jail? If he really wanted to repay for what he did, shouldn't he turn himself in?

      It's an empty apology, he might not be able to bring back those he killed, but the least he could do is serve the time for his crimes.
      • keitarofujiwara, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2You are missing the point. No one is saying that these guys are not responsible for what they did. Sooner or later they will be held responsible for their actions. If they did not follow the rules of engagement they will be held responsible and he will be punished accordingly. In fact, this video and many other similar videos will be used by the government to systematically distribute the collective fault of the US to these individuals (see history).
        However, the point here is the system. The army is using this system to brainwash very young and naive men into committing atrocities. If you watch other related videos you will realize that their superiors encouraged and commended their crimes. This is what these guys are emphasizing and this is what they want the people to know.
    • TheGooseyOne, on 05/28/2008, -5/+22At least someone on Digg isn't entrhralled by the his "instense" hysterics.

      He is the problem here, not the war. There are plenty of order abiding, non-sociopathic marines and soldiers fighting for us. Much more than there are idiots like this.
      • Rage67, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2how are we ever going to know...
        • aquireworth, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Ask them, they'll tell you. I have a few friends back from Iraq and they're willing to answer the questions I've asked.
        • TheGooseyOne, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Exactly. One of my best friends is a marine. He follows orders.

          This guy isn't normal.
    • wasabimonster, on 05/28/2008, -0/+12Isn't that the beauty of war? This guy can admit all of his horrific actions with impunity and nothing will happen to him or his superiors. Imagine someone killing indiscriminately like this on Main St. in the town you live in and nothing more than a heated Digg discussion coming out of it.
    • BBoombastic, on 05/28/2008, -3/+7This guy just feels guilty and is trying to transfer most of the blame to someone else. It's like when a kid shoots up his school and they blame it on video games. I'm not saying that fault doesn't belong to our war mentality as a whole but in the end this guy shoulders most of the blame for what he did.
      • BetterOffEd, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2Let's not forget that he didn't HAVE to say ANYTHING. He could've just gone about his life and not said a word. If he really felt personally guilty about it, he could've exorcised those demons through other means: family, a shrink, etc.

        But, he should at the very least be commended for speaking out.
    • NaziHatinChimp, on 05/28/2008, -4/+1What does him as a person have to do with us hating the war? Were you over there? If so, where? The green zone? It's real easy to judge from another man's shoes.
    • dig1x, on 05/28/2008, -12/+6What is wrong with you?

      He behaved exactly as his peers -- he killed innocents. Yet, you damn him because he doesnt make himself a martyr (JAG).

      ***** you and your ***** warped false morality.
      • nikoliko66, on 05/28/2008, -2/+6No you MORON, the point is that he isn't behaving like his peers. You think that all servicemen kill innocent people? Or did you think that because there was a whole panel of sick human beings up there agreeing with sicko #1? Instead of truly repenting and giving himself up for war crimes this guy is up in front of the media basically saying "This isn't really the result of me being devoid of human sympathy and compassion because my commander gave me props for my first kill." I think the person with the warped sense of morality is the digger telling the ex-serviceman that he has a warped sense of morality for calling this guy out. plz gtfo. k thx.
        • Rage67, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2what about the promised 4 days for the first person
          to stab someone to death? how does that make sense?
      • Aitese, on 05/28/2008, -0/+7Here is something to consider...think of his intentions BEFORE he was affected by the realities of war. Before he even left the US the man had chosen a CHOKING hand and tattooed "***** you" in Arabic on it. He was all about the torture and pain BEFORE he was ever posted.
    • fugazied, on 05/28/2008, -7/+3"What a disgrace to the Marines. He killed innocent men and is admitting it, freely? "
      The marines kill who the marines are TOLD to kill. Innocent or not.
    • ciaran036, on 05/28/2008, -6/+4Yes he is a hero. He was manipulated and trained to kill people. It's not his fault. If you were handed a gun and told to shoot - you'd do the same. At the time, he believed the lies and propaganda. You can't possibly blame him. He is a victim! Support him now that he's on the good side!
      • wasabimonster, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Are you ***** kidding me? If I was handed a gun and told to shoot an innocent guy who just happens to be riding a bicycle down the street I would undoubtedly turn it back on the piece of ***** that handed it to me in the first place. No amount of brainwashing can make a normal balanced person think this is okay at any time. If this guy has the wherewithal now to speak out against these actions then he should have had it in the first place.
        • ciaran036, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2 You've obviously not been brainwashed then. These soldiers are being trained from when they are kids almost...
          What country are you from, out of interest? America?
          Most people just act on orders, no matter what it is if they loosely believe that they have the justification to do it, they'll - They don't know the truth. This is what we should be teaching people.
    • 15charmaxwtf, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2You seem more bothered about him telling other people about it.
  • sadsadrobot, on 05/28/2008, -34/+7Someone needs to stop crying. He knew what he was getting into when he joined the military.
    • Hindermore, on 05/28/2008, -2/+15Has it occurred to you that some people have been in the military since before this war started? Also, you're wrong, none of these kids know what to expect when they join the military. All they know is what they see on TV and in movies. These kids are taught that violence and combat is glorious and the good guys always win.
      • sparsely, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2So you're saying the military attracts the stupid?
    • LittleDas, on 05/28/2008, -2/+12Not many people really know what they're getting into when they enter the military. The last person to serve in the military in my family was my grandfather because he forbid any of his children or grandchildren from joining up.
    • hmunkey, on 05/28/2008, -2/+6He entered the military knowing that he would be sent on a false war to a foreign country for no reason and kill civilians and attack religious centers?
      I think not.
    • karel747, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Since when is the unprovoked shooting of innocent people text-book combat training? Put yourself in the shoes of the guy who got shot in the neck, then executed in front of his family and friends... then say that what's happening is alright.
  • mattz007, on 05/28/2008, -6/+31At what point was killing innocent people "ok"?
    • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -7/+3When they are dusky Mahometans.
    • jlashmet, on 05/28/2008, -3/+9I think what he was saying was that it was that the behavior was generally accepted by his peers.
    • AbdullahAbuDawu, on 09/12/2008, -9/+2When they are massacring your people.
      When they rape the women.
      When they tease, taunt, and beat your children.
      When they destroy everything you consider holy.
      • Envark, on 05/28/2008, -1/+5Your dictionary must contain a strange definition of "innocent."
    • nakani, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1At the point your CO pats you on the back and gives you "achievement bonuses" for stabbing someone, like it's Call of Duty 4 or something!
  • RSS14, on 05/28/2008, -8/+45I hate this ***** war! Bring them home!
    • fugazied, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Problem is you are now bringing home some people who need serious counseling. remember all of those vietnam vets who had a hard time readjusting to normal life? Well there are a whole bunch of people who have seen things just as bad and some of whom may have trouble readjusting when they return. When they come back, some of those guys will need help.
    • tk0680, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Leave that one out there.
  • repick3, on 05/28/2008, -5/+23That was ***** instense.
  • schmitey, on 05/28/2008, -18/+22Moving! Anyone that wants to badmouth that man I suggest you first walk a mile in his shoes during his tour...and then have the balls to say it to his face. That is the voice of a lifetime of regret right there...
    • publiclurker, on 05/28/2008, -3/+8Most of us don't get off on killing any random person who happens to be slightly different, so the likelihood of us walking in his shoes is slightly less than zero.
      • JAFFA, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4No offense (sincerely) but you dont have a clue what your talking about. As someone that has seen combat its extremely difficult to judge people if you havent been there yourself. Actually being in the zone changes you and your colleagues. You are pumping adrenaline 24/7. Your nerves get 'shot to pieces'. Its difficult to live in a normal way because you are not in a normal environment.

        When I was in combat I did things that I thought I could never do and I also couldnt do things that I believed I could.
        • schmitey, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Thank you JAFFA...couldn't have said it better myself. People don't realize how much troops in the line of fire change. I've heard of POW's and other strangling their own mothers when they are woken from a dream. You're not the same person you were before!
    • maxthethird, on 05/28/2008, -0/+8I have walked in his shoes. Probably before he was even there. This is murder. He is a murderer and should be punished for it. And I would not hesitate to say it to his face. He had vulgar Arabic tattooed on his arm before he left, he had intent to harm.
      • JAFFA, on 05/28/2008, -2/+2You've served a tour(s). You havent walked in his shoes unless you were with his unit during the same actions he was. There's a subtle difference. I agree with your sentiments but you have no idea what experiences and events shaped his life at this time or whether you would do the same if you had experienced them.
    • ElderBieler, on 05/28/2008, -7/+7This guy is spewing so much garbage which isn't true. I've served 2 tours in Iraq with the Marine Corps and have transferred to the AJW (Army Judicial Wing) to serve as a lawyer investigating ethical breaches by military personnel. I can unequivocally say that soldiers are not authorized to shoot haphazardley into a crowd, you must identify the threat and engage with appropriate action. Soldiers there do not do what he is saying, even when we've been engaged by a hostile we must seek reciprocation by the lowest common escalation of action, meaning if somebody has a rifle and is running from us after a shot is fired, we first need to give them an opportunity to surrender per verbal commands.
      Enough of this liberal garbage being spewed as fact.
    • endeavormac, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1Infantryman who just got back from Iraq 3 weeks ago.

      "Turner, if you are reading this, I think you are a terrific story teller, and if you put some time into it I believe you will have a great career in fiction."

      "Oh yeah, and you're a liar."
  • petrodollar, on 05/28/2008, -4/+19Mark Wahlberg?
    • nickstang, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1That aint Marky Mark,.. if it were,.. you'd see the 'funky bunch' by his side.
    • source1984, on 05/28/2008, -1/+0shut up, please. i hate these gay one line emo comments. If you think its marky mark, just write a complete sentence, "could this be mark wahlberg?". not just "errrrrrrr, mark wahlberg?"
    • Malakas07, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1nope......Bob Lee Swagger
  • donkz, on 05/28/2008, -11/+166in this world puppy thrown off the cliff gets more sympathy than an innocent human being riding a bicycle
    • ileftfark, on 05/28/2008, -1/+12I think your comment has a very austere truth to it. We are senselessly killing innocent people and we ourselves are being killed needlessly on a daily basis. People were outraged by the puppy incident, as well they should be, but it's sad when we identify more with a dog than other human beings. I'm not what my grandfather would call a "liberal pussy", and I think war is sometimes inevitable, but in this case, I find it needless, sad, and above all, tragic. For everyone involved. I honestly hope there is something else other than this world, and that in that place, we can all share a fellowship, because the ***** that goes on here is ***** up beyond belief.
      • getbusyliving, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1This is the only life we will ever live.
    • wishninja, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4You hit it right there dude. If they were killing dogs there would be outrage. Wait until these guys come home and start staffing your local police force. Its the same, kill innocent people no problem it is all handled under the table with internal investigations and then nothing is ever done. But to back it up juries do not convict officers anyway. We are dangerously nationalistic authorities can get away with anything.
    • azneggrollz, on 05/28/2008, -4/+1It's a common sympathy, but you can't help but feel for an animal that has no influence on its fate. Humans can realize the situation and attempt to fight back, but an animal doesn't quite rationalize what's going on, as in that video. It's all very sad.
    • BrendanSheehan, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2And that puppy video was fake.
      • azneggrollz, on 06/01/2008, -0/+0why does it matter if that video was fake or not? The sympathy it elicited was real and thus the point still stands...
    • Conguent, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0Very true. The media has done such a good job of dehumanizing people in the middle east, that most people don't think twice about them. A puppy on the other hand can't be seen as anything but innocent.
  • Mikhail101, on 05/28/2008, -14/+7Wow WTF this isnt just oil this is ***** murder. Almost as bad as the nazi's people grandparents fought against in WW2, those WW2 soldiers would be turning in their graves out of disgust.
    • IdevInull, on 05/28/2008, -0/+6Wow you are ignorant.
    • RGSPro, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Hasn't anybody figured out this war isn't about OIL its about ideological differences and political misconceptions.
    • nlke182, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4Atrocities were committed during WW2 on both sides. It is part of almost every war.
      • PolishLogic, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3It's amazing what some people conveniently choose to accept as reality isn't it? Thanks to Hollywood, the media, and Tom Brokaw books, some feel that the Allies committed only acts of heroism during WW2. Regardless of all the stories about US and British military serving as look outs for Russian troops as they looted and raped for their revenge. I'd also be willing to bet that it wasn't confined to the Russian troops either.

        Those stories don't make for feel-good movies though.
    • PolishLogic, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4War = legitimized murder...any war.
  • pantone286, on 05/28/2008, -22/+40Why does the Flying Spaghetti Monster let this stuff happen?
    • fluxion, on 05/28/2008, -0/+4flying spaghetti monster hasnt been with us for a long long time
    • source1984, on 05/28/2008, -4/+0you guys are pathetic. really, you are.
  • consoneo, on 05/28/2008, -4/+6More videos at http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Winter+Sol ...
  • pbrubaker, on 05/28/2008, -10/+66It's strange that I just saw Platoon last night, and after I saw a scene where they invaded a village, killed innocent people, and raped young women I thought to myself, "I'm glad that crap doesn't happen anymore." What the ***** people? Charlie Sheen's character had a line where he said something to the effect of, "What's wrong with you animals. She's a human being." Have they really forgotten that? Do they really think this behavior is acceptable?

    And I really hope that he doesn't think that "I'm sorry," is going to save his sick ass. He didn't have to follow an illegal order. But I guess that was somehow harder than killing innocent people, and terrorizing families? ***** him. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.
    • pantone286, on 05/28/2008, -1/+7If you look at history, you will see these kinds of atrocities in every war. In WW2 germans killed babies and women and hung them on hooks in an effort to keep guerrillas from sniping at them in the cities that they marched through. Guess what - it didn't work. Also the russian army raped and murdered many thousands of german women and children in Berlin after they sacked it. They saw it as payback for the millions of russian that the germans killed earlier.
      • gwtgator, on 05/28/2008, -3/+1source?
      • pantone286, on 05/28/2008, -0/+5Source?
        Dood I am not writing an essay for you.
        Google give it a try.

        MASSACRE AT DISTOMO (June 10, 1944)

        Four days after the Allied invasion of Normandy, a most despicable atrocity took place in the village of Distomo in the province of Boeotia in Central Greece. A unit of the SS Police Panzergrenadier Regiment No 7, on an anti-partisan sweep, massacred 218 Greek civilians in the village. Packed into seven trucks, the unit drove through the village without incident but a short distance beyond the village the convoy was ambushed by a guerrilla band that resulted in the killing of seven SS soldiers. The SS unit doubled back into the village and in a last ditch effort to crush partisan activities, the reprisals, including looting, burning and rape, began. When a Red Cross delegation visited the village some days later they found bodies hanging from trees along the main street. One survivor, Yannes Basdekis, recalled, 'I walked into a house and saw a woman, stripped naked and covered in blood. Her breasts had been sliced off. Her baby lay dead nearby, the cut off nipple still in its mouth'. The body of the village priest was found headless.

        The babies and hooks hooks were from WW1.

        Not to leave out the Brits and Americans - they firebombed civilian centers in Berlin and Tokyo and killed countless women and children.Churchill started with the civilian bombing to divert the Luftwaffe from destroying his last RAF bases. He needed them to keep the germans from crossing the channel. Civilized warfare doesn't exist.

      • fluxion, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2maybe one day we'll all grow up
    • ileftfark, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2It's the "evil within the hearts of men". Look up Stanley Milgram's experiment (which had to be abruptly stopped). We are capable of the most horrific of atrocities.
      • CrazyArcher, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Look up "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad.
    • queenbee93, on 05/28/2008, -0/+1Maybe he did have to follow an illegal order or thought that he had to. Maybe...if he had not gone along with the program, he would have ended up Pat Tillmanned.
  • daEvan, on 05/28/2008, -5/+31I can't imagine living with that kind of guilt on your mind. Although this man should not necessarily be idolized for his actions, his willingness to admit he did wrong and apologize is more than what many other people are brave enough to have, and that is to be respected.
    • sparsely, on 05/28/2008, -0/+2Not necessarily? The level to which patriotism brainwashes the masses to falsely elevate standing armies and their members with undeserved honor and assert nonexistent morals never fails to surprise me. Even with the greatest atrocities, people still are unwilling to hold soldiers to the same standards as everyone else. Institutionalizing authoritarianism is a very dangerous thing to do.
  • G00SEISL00SE, on 05/28/2008, -8/+59hell my friend that is over there told me if they shoot somebody the didn't mean to they just throw an AK and a rocket rpg down next to them (they keep them handy in the back for this reason) and take a picture of it and they just count them as if they were hostile then.
  • klick37, on 05/28/2008, -2/+6Holy *****...
  • NelsonR, on 05/28/2008, -4/+45Being a vet like many of you out there you know the truth of this story. There is a huge difference defending ones own country from aggression but we also know Iraq like Vietnam were shams and lies perpetrated by an elite ruling class bent on profiting in one form or another. Like wine you refine with age and being young and fighting these wars you do not have a perspective of governing powers until you age and realize, what the ***** did I do when I fought a wrong war.
    Iraqi citizens are just like us humans with a desire to live in peace while raising their children and because of Bush many have already paid the ultimate price for outside aggression from the U.S.
    • AbdullahAbuDawu, on 09/12/2008, -0/+7It is nice to hear this from a soldier. Peace.
    • nickstang, on 05/28/2008, -1/+8let's not forget that our dollar lost 40% of it's value after the bush administration. 4 trillion in loans does that.
    • TantrooM, on 05/28/2008, -0/+3Actually it isn't that people joined up thinking Iraq were the cause of 9/11. It was that recruitment in the year after 9/11 shot up like a rocket. And our damned President took advantage of the vengeful for Osama hearts.
  • Aidje, on 05/28/2008, -1/+2Original story: http://newsproject.org/videos/21
  • IdevInull, on 05/28/2008, -21/+5Traitorous, seditionist bastard.

    Yellow-bellies, like