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- TunaFishGangsta, on 09/26/2008, -1/+53It's a nice gesture that probably won't make much of a difference. Now if we could just get an endorsement from 61 NASCAR drivers. That would change minds.
- RealmDown, on 09/26/2008, -1/+11Everyone would turn left ?
- coyote1284, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3I see what you did there.
- ProfessorSYM, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4And several American Idol winners.
- RealmDown, on 09/26/2008, -1/+11Everyone would turn left ?
- Codee, on 09/26/2008, -1/+49This country voted Bush into office TWICE. Intellect is a non factor to the majority. Unfortunately.
- polychrome, on 09/26/2008, -0/+5Actually the election was stolen twice - This country allowed the election to be stolen twice. Greg Palast (www.gregpalast.com I think) has much detail on this if you want to check it out. But I agree with you about intellect. Sadly, add to that the sense of hopelessness and futility of the actual majority in the last two elections. :(
- uppitydiggers, on 09/26/2008, -0/+1And knowing a lot about physics, or being a great writer, doesn't automatically translate into being a great political thinker. Or even knowing a thing at all about politics to begin with.
- Codee, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2I respectfully and totally disagree with you. One can argue about anything, including reality itself, but there are fundamental rules of law that help stabilize and govern any discussion. When these are stripped from the foundation of a conversation and marginalized or devalued the conclusion will always be hopeless.
Your rationale is the basis from which the Republicans have used to gorge themselves on wealth and profit and herd the brainless electorate that has been the majority. I am smart enough to know your foreign policy creditably do not manifest on your ability to see a foreign body of land from your backyard. This is preposterous. Nor can you say the fundamentals of an economy are sound at 9:00am and claim it is not at 11:00am of the same day.
The backing of Obama by 61 Nobel Laureates does mean something. Actually it means more than something. It says,"We who have been humbly recognized in our abilities to articulate and express the human journey, through the sciences, art, literature and advocacy recognize and support the best individual for the President of The United States of America. Arguably, the most powerful and influential position of leadership in the entire world."
If one cannot grasp the gravitas of such an unprecedented statement, which the majority probably won't, then we all are headed for even darker days. - uppitydiggers, on 09/26/2008, -0/+0In my opinion, Obama is nothing more than a run of the mill opportunist politician. No different than hundreds of others who have come before him, or are running in opposition to him. His actions alone have shown that. His speeches show that.
"If one cannot grasp the gravitas of such an unprecedented statement, which the majority probably won't, then we all are headed for even darker days."
Regardless of how you dress it up, it's still only a collection of 61 people who's political ideologies are similar. No more, no less. Obama will win the election, there's no doubt in my mind. He's suckered enough people into believing he's offering something different, all while not actually offering anything but support of the same tired policies. We'll remain in Afghanistan and Iraq, despite his early rhetoric about pulling us out immediately. We'll continue to have rights taken way or at the least infringed on, as his voting record has demonstrated this is a pattern for him. The economy will remain unchanged, or possibly sink lower based on increased taxation placed upon an already cash strapped population. And the amount of government spending will increase, as he's been calling for to happen during his entire campaign.
Come to think of it, that's the one item he's actually held strong on.
Sorry, but this topic is useless to continue discussing. You're an Obama supporter, and cannot be swayed. Therefore, nothing I'll say will make you see anything other than how "wonderful and special" Obama is. Quite like the diggers who defend McCain through every pitfall he flings himself into. That's fine, I get that.
However, at the end of the day the man is not special, he's just a politician. Politicians, by nature, do whatever it takes to keep their power or acquire more power. That is essentially their job.
- Codee, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2I respectfully and totally disagree with you. One can argue about anything, including reality itself, but there are fundamental rules of law that help stabilize and govern any discussion. When these are stripped from the foundation of a conversation and marginalized or devalued the conclusion will always be hopeless.
- 7Mystery, on 09/26/2008, -1/+37I couldn’t agree with you more, Codee. That's why McCain is campaigning on "I was the 5th worst student in my class" and calling Obama an "elitist" for having a good education.
Sadly, being a complete moron became "cool" in this country.- JATCA69, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3Idiocracy in full effect.
- redcolumbine, on 09/26/2008, -1/+1Being number one is now regarded as a load of number two. Still, I appreciate the effort.
- Hillsfar, on 09/26/2008, -0/+29Not to mention that FOUR - count ;em, FOUR, Nobel laureates in Economics also endorse Obama. They are not listed as signees, but they have endorsed Obama:
Daniel McFadden, 2000 Nobel laureate
Edmund Phelps, 2006 Nobel laureate
Robert Solow, 1987 Nobel laureate
Joseph E. Stiglitz, 2001 Nobel laureate - smartest4you, on 09/26/2008, -0/+19McCain has gone mad, save this nation from him.
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -4/+730 Helens agree:
Appeal to authority and appeal to popularity are logical fallacies.- Rhodamine, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2You have to admit, when you stand in a line with folks who look down on academic achievement and accomplishment, it's difficult to ignore those people who surround you.
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4Have you tried the Jedi mind trick?
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4Have you tried the Jedi mind trick?
- rebotfc, on 09/26/2008, -1/+5Appeal to authority is not a logical fallacy when talking about politics. It is more relevant to the scientific field.
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -2/+1Logic doesn't care about the subject. It's a fallacy.
In fact it's even worst because not one of them is an expert in political science. - KOSmurfy, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2The entire election process is an appeal to authority. Do you really think many voters understand the implications of either candidates economic policies (beyond the rhetoric)? Voters rely on experts to inform them, and nobody is claiming that these Nobel winners' support logically necessitates Obama as the better candidate, which is specifically what the fallacy refers to.
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -1/+1Elections are different because they aren't arguments.
It's just a system that was invented. Just happens to work like a fallacy. But they are all fallacies anyway. Authority can't be logically argued. It's just weak vs. strong.
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -2/+1Logic doesn't care about the subject. It's a fallacy.
- 16sinker, on 09/26/2008, -1/+1are you equating 61 Nobel Laurates with thirty women named Helen?
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2No?
- coyote1284, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2And now for something completely different.
THE SPANISH INQUISITION! - ChessPieceFace, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2A "Fallacious Appeal to Authority" occurs when one cites an "expert" on a subject or field that the "expert" has no expertise in.
With your logic any endorsement is meaningless.- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2That's absotuley right.
And it's not "my" logic. It's just logic. - johnnr2, on 09/28/2008, -0/+1Tell that to Oprah. ;->
- AchaIemoipas, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2That's absotuley right.
- Rhodamine, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2You have to admit, when you stand in a line with folks who look down on academic achievement and accomplishment, it's difficult to ignore those people who surround you.
- sandersdamnit, on 09/26/2008, -3/+20That doesn't mean ***** to someone who believes that a magical super-hero created the universe out of sheer will power and awesomeness. These guys are all part of a vast humanist conspiracy to them.
- EatingPie, on 09/26/2008, -8/+2Actually, while Christians do believe God created the Universe, they believe he also created the order and "rules" (physics) of the Universe. To Christians, Scientists are studying these rules, and giving us enlightenment into how God designed things (again, that's to *Christians* not atheists). There is nothing "humanist" or "conspiratorial" about that.
Heck, Jimmy Carter -- a Christian -- actually uses medical science to eradicate disease in developing countries... and this is just one example.
So basically, you've completely misrepresented the Christian worldview.
-Pie- redcolumbine, on 09/26/2008, -1/+5Unfortunately, so do a large number of people who consider themselves "Christian."
- EatingPie, on 09/27/2008, -0/+2Once again, that's not a true statement. Unless you have some statistics to show that "large numbers" of Christians believe these men to be some sort of conspiracy. Has such a study even been done?
-PIe
- EatingPie, on 09/26/2008, -8/+2Actually, while Christians do believe God created the Universe, they believe he also created the order and "rules" (physics) of the Universe. To Christians, Scientists are studying these rules, and giving us enlightenment into how God designed things (again, that's to *Christians* not atheists). There is nothing "humanist" or "conspiratorial" about that.
- bunkster, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2Tuna Fish Gangsta had it right on. The Republicans have never held the intelligentsia in much esteem. They prefer to get their endorsements from sports figures and country western performers. LOL They do not care what 61 Nobel Laureates think. They disagree with most of them, to start with.
- Hetman, on 09/26/2008, -1/+10So according to the christian right 61 heathens have endoresed Obama. And he plans on teachings your children neverulution and how to become gay sex freaks in middle school. You guys need to realize that regardless of what anyone says this country seems stock full of christian conservatives who are never going to vote for Obama. And unfortunatly they seemed to have been the deciding factor in the last two elections.
- JenniferInMO, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4That tells me that every single person who supports Obama must be out there NOW doing something to combat the very powerful ignorant faction in the US. We not be able to change those minds so that means that we need to make sure every person likely to vote Democrat is registered, has checked his/her registration and WILL GET TO THE POLLS.
We need to be canvassing to make sure every voter will vote. We need to be calling and donating money so that Obama can get the ads out to prevent more people from buying into the scare tactics. We can't just sit here shaking our heads, we must do something more. Push it!!:
1. The deadline is fast approaching! Register to vote, and check your registration online. You can do both, by visiting: http://www.voteforchange.com/
2. Make sure your friends and family are registered properly.
3. Sign on to the neighbor to neighbor program to talk to people in your neighborhood. You can call or visit in person. You can make 1 contact or 100. It's easy and it just takes a few minutes. All you need is here: http://my.barackobama.com/modules/votercontact/log ... 4. If you can spare anything to donate please do so now. Obama is being outspent by McCain because the GOP has more cash and many of McCain's negative ads are being paid for by billionaire backed 527s. Do your part and donate whatever you can. Even $5 helps! http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/ ...
- JenniferInMO, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4That tells me that every single person who supports Obama must be out there NOW doing something to combat the very powerful ignorant faction in the US. We not be able to change those minds so that means that we need to make sure every person likely to vote Democrat is registered, has checked his/her registration and WILL GET TO THE POLLS.
- EatingPie, on 09/26/2008, -7/+4They are focusing specifically on science issues. And certainly in that realm, they are worth listening to. However, when it comes to other hotbed issues, such as abortion and the Iraq war, they aren't experts.
People decide on President based on many things. If your focus is -- for example -- government funding of science (one of the things their letter addresses), then Obama is the candidate for you. But if that's not so important, you're probably better off looking to other sources for information.
-Pie - stealthc, on 09/26/2008, -12/+5http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_authority
Elect Obama if you like. He will not put an end to the imperialism or the theft-based banking system until an economic armageddon forces him to.
Baldwin '08- JenniferInMO, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2A vote for Baldwin = a vote for McCain.
I think you are mistaken about the term "imperialism." It is the Republicans' nation building efforts which fit squarely within the definition of imperialism. If you think the status quo, "theft-based" banking system is the problem (which I agree) then it will only worsen under McCain. Obama, favors reasonable, effective legislation and respect for the Constitution.
A vote for Baldwin is a vote for McCain and he is most likely to further deregulate banks, push our national debt and deficit through the roof and leave our kids and grandkids with nothing but history.
McCain is the imperialist magnified compared to Bush. While I respect your desire to vote third party just ask many of those people who voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004 whether they regret their vote. I agree that we need more than 2 parties, but my God, the Republican party has become corrupt beyond belief and the only way to stop them from further steam rolling over our Constitution and enabling and empowering the rich and corporate elite is to vote Obama in this election.- brad3378, on 09/27/2008, -0/+1Wrong.
A vote for Baldwin is a vote AGAINST Obama AND McCain.
Spare us with the lesser of two evils argument.
Neither Obama or McCain will balance the budget.
We need a REAL change.
By the way.
Did you complain when 3rd party voters helped Clinton get elected in 1992?
- brad3378, on 09/27/2008, -0/+1Wrong.
- JenniferInMO, on 09/26/2008, -0/+2A vote for Baldwin = a vote for McCain.
- kwazyhulk, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2If only we were living in a meritocracy...
- thelif, on 09/26/2008, -0/+7Oh come on guys, this is just fanning that elitist fire. Besides, scientific progress is just made up stuff that won't matter when the rapture comes.
- coyote1284, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3My sarcasm meter is showing full deflection.
- READY2000, on 09/26/2008, -0/+5I signed that few days ago.
- uppitydiggers, on 09/26/2008, -7/+0This just in, Nobel Prize winners have political ideologies.
- Rhodamine, on 09/26/2008, -0/+7Unfortunately this fuels the anti-intellectual attitude that so many of my fellow Americans embrace. How can we live in a society that so often looks down on hard work and education. Just look at the academic resumes everyone on the presidential ticket.
Please excuse the link to a blog
http://onemansblog.com/2008/09/11/educational-qual ... - cats4obama, on 09/26/2008, -0/+8Many good comments but the focus shouldn't be on converting the far right who are not listening but to swaying the many who haven't been involved and are still saying they are undecided. And also those who are concerned because of lies and misinformation about Obama who can still be reached. This endorsement is worth talking about to those people. I think Obama is right that we make too much of the huge divide between red and blue and we need to believe that many Americans are still reasonable - want to have good reasons for what they do and who they vote for.
- deuxbits, on 09/26/2008, -0/+5".....
The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H.L. Mencken, 1920
The full article is worth reading:
http://f-ckingc-nts.com/politics/mencken-why-stupi ...
Stunning - basically most people don't trust smart people. - kemp34, on 09/26/2008, -2/+1Well, Al Gore got the "Nobel Peace Prize" as did HENRY KISSINGER (the mad bomber), so, while the Nobel Prize is great and all, it is actually pretty well tainted.
- svendm, on 09/26/2008, -0/+1The Peace prize is decided by politicians in the Norwegian parliament.
The rest are determined by people who actually know something.
- svendm, on 09/26/2008, -0/+1The Peace prize is decided by politicians in the Norwegian parliament.
- JenniferInMO, on 09/26/2008, -0/+8The fact is intellect is not viewed as a presidential quality, and dumb sells a political candidate. This just means that every single person who supports Obama must be out there NOW doing something to combat the very powerful ignorant faction in the US. We not be able to change those minds so that means that we need to make sure every person likely to vote Democrat is registered, has checked his/her registration and WILL GET TO THE POLLS.
We need to be canvassing to make sure every voter will vote. We need to be calling and donating money so that Obama can get the ads out to prevent more people from buying into the scare tactics. We can't just sit here shaking our heads, we must do something more. Push it!!:
1. The deadline is fast approaching! Register to vote, and check your registration online. You can do both, by visiting: http://www.voteforchange.com/
2. Make sure your friends and family are registered properly.
3. Talk to your grandparents, your elderly aunts and uncles, if you work in a nursing home, don't avoid politics. Embrace it!
4. Sign on to the neighbor to neighbor program to talk to people in your neighborhood. You can call or visit in person. You can make 1 contact or 100. It's easy and it just takes a few minutes. All you need is here: http://my.barackobama.com/modules/votercontact/log ... 5. If you can spare anything to donate please do so now. Obama is being outspent by McCain because the GOP has more cash and many of McCain's negative ads are being paid for by billionaire backed 527s. Do your part and donate whatever you can. Even $5 helps! http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/ ... - cmschmidt, on 09/26/2008, -0/+6unfortunately in today's world MILFS > INTELLIGENCE
- apastafarian, on 09/26/2008, -1/+2They will listen to Rush Limbaugh, and he's a Ignoble Jackass and has the statue/drug stash to prove it!
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