Many users rejected Mike Solana's claims that China steals EV tech and talent as misleading semantics or outright fraud, instead endorsing tariffs as punishment or defending it as standard competition.
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@bgurley the difference is the chinese government coordinates their strategy with a goal of not only stealing our technology but selling it at unsustainably steep discounts to destroy american industry and corner the global market. as they've done for 30 years. which of course you know.
Here is Ford “distilling” Teslas and Chinese EVs.
@parkerconrad @bgurley but you would call this stealing right? even though it’s not illegal? my point is this is a semantic disagreement separate from my point. I am looking at a major and ongoing conflict between our country and another hostile superpower and thinking, this should not be tolerated.
@micsolana @bgurley I have many competitors — some foreign — who have “stolen” employees from rippling (although we would call it “recruiting”). Will you go on record saying we should ban US companies from working with my competitors, if they hire someone away from me? Happy to provide you a list!
it's legal for your competitors to "steal" your employees, and still you'd try to stop them, no? the terrain to me is simply: a chinese company, in a scheme almost certainly orchestrated by the chinese government, is artificially crashing the cost of intelligence to corner the global market with distilled american technology. we have seen versions of this for thirty years in everything from rare earths and batteries to steel. this is how our manufacturing capacity was gutted, which has been, obviously, an unmitigated disaster for our country. allowing it to persist is, imo, unthinkable. I am not a "ban open source" person, I am a fair trade person. china is waging economic warfare against our country and we should obviously do something about it.
@parkerconrad @bgurley that having been said, yes this probably constitutes fraud!
@parkerconrad @bgurley but you would call this stealing right? even though it’s not illegal? my point is this is a semantic disagreement separate from my point. I am looking at a major and ongoing conflict between our country and another hostile superpower and thinking, this should not be tolerated.
@micsolana @bgurley I have many competitors — some foreign — who have “stolen” employees from rippling (although we would call it “recruiting”). Will you go on record saying we should ban US companies from working with my competitors, if they hire someone away from me? Happy to provide you a list!
@micsolana @bgurley No I would NOT call it stealing. And a US company self-hosting a set of weights that happened to be released by a Chinese lab does NOTHING to help China.
@micsolana @bgurley Nope, Supreme Court struck that down in hiQ case. TOS violations are NOT crimes.
@micsolana @bgurley This is why we have tariffs now. Play nice or we make you expensive.
@micsolana @bgurley Also, you know, the concept of intellectual property. If it's not proprietary or trademarked, you don't have a moat there.
@micsolana @bgurley The major AI labs always knew selling API tokens was unsustainable. It would be the same thing if an American company did a distillation, exactly the same, those companies would be destroyed. Stop investing in bad business models then blame capitalism.
@parkerconrad @micsolana @bgurley They almost certainly broke a number of laws in setting up the accounts to avoid detection.
@parkerconrad @micsolana @bgurley I think the bigger issue here is is that Chinese models are currently held to different release / usage / safety standards than US models. We have a reverse protectionist policy right now. Support open source all we want, but need to have equal playing field.
@micsolana @bgurley WE’RE PLANNING THE BIGGEST COIN PUMP EVER SEEN. TARGETS OVER 1000%-5000% RIGHT HERE. ANYBODY WHO ENTERS IS GOING TO MAKE A FORTUNE. We have inside information. You know what to do. . Prepare. See you there. Contact me here for more details https://t.me/Evelyn_mo
@micsolana @bgurley “Stealing” implies they broke a law. What law did they break? The only practical impact of this policy proposal is that *american* companies — no other cos in the world — will have to pay above-market rates to bagholder investors in Anthropic and OAI.