Conrad warns US restrictions will force domestic startups to overpay.
Many users accused Anthropic of framing US AI policy to enrich its investors and cripple American tech leadership, while some praised open models for benefiting US companies and consumers.
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This is such a lie. Americans will not benefit by being forced to buy Anthropic, at whatever price they charge, while the rest of the world hosts open source models on their own infra. This is just a transfer from the rest of us to Anthropic bag-holders.
You know who else would benefit enormously? Americans!
@micsolana @bgurley “Stealing” implies they broke a law. What law did they break? The only practical impact of this policy proposal is that *american* companies — no other cos in the world — will have to pay above-market rates to bagholder investors in Anthropic and OAI.
@bgurley the difference is the chinese government coordinates their strategy with a goal of not only stealing our technology but selling it at unsustainably steep discounts to destroy american industry and corner the global market. as they've done for 30 years. which of course you know.
it's legal for your competitors to "steal" your employees, and still you'd try to stop them, no? the terrain to me is simply: a chinese company, in a scheme almost certainly orchestrated by the chinese government, is artificially crashing the cost of intelligence to corner the global market with distilled american technology. we have seen versions of this for thirty years in everything from rare earths and batteries to steel. this is how our manufacturing capacity was gutted, which has been, obviously, an unmitigated disaster for our country. allowing it to persist is, imo, unthinkable. I am not a "ban open source" person, I am a fair trade person. china is waging economic warfare against our country and we should obviously do something about it.
We have information that Moonshot AI distilled Anthropic’s Fable for the development of its K3 model. To do this they developed a sophisticated internal platform to conduct large scale distillation against U.S. models, allowing them to quickly switch between multiple methods of access to avoid detection. Moonshot AI has also acquired GB300-equipped servers and has accessed GB300s in Thailand, likely to train its AI models. The United States strongly supports the free and fair development of AI, including a thriving competitive ecosystem that spans frontier models, specialized systems, open-source frameworks, and open-weight models. Legitimate AI distillation used to create smaller, more efficient models plays a vital role in this open innovation ecosystem. However, large-scale, covert industrial distillation aimed at stealing proprietary U.S. technology and undermining American research is unacceptable.
@theamazingrandi Very unclear how a set of weights have a nationality. If hosted by a US company on their own infra imho it’s as American as apple pie.
@parkerconrad @bgurley that having been said, yes this probably constitutes fraud!
@micsolana @bgurley No I would NOT call it stealing. And a US company self-hosting a set of weights that happened to be released by a Chinese lab does NOTHING to help China.
@parkerconrad @bgurley but you would call this stealing right? even though it’s not illegal? my point is this is a semantic disagreement separate from my point. I am looking at a major and ongoing conflict between our country and another hostile superpower and thinking, this should not be tolerated.
@Markyyc8 @parkerconrad This is a relative game - and they are very compute constrained relative to demand. Compared to the US - it’s not much, and domestic chip supply is severely bottlenecked. Most analysis point to the US-China compute gap widening in terms of both power and FLOPs.
@quantyboi @parkerconrad Btw I support open-weights - just not Chinese. It’s obv we’re in a Cold War with China, it’s stupid to effectively subsidize those companies. Especially if you believe in AGI and RSI - we don’t want to create a flywheel for our competitors. I don’t think it’ll commoditize.
@parkerconrad You’re leaving out that your company benefits from PRC companies stealing American IP and selling it to Rippling at reduced cost. Let the PRC companies compete on equal footing. American companies should not be footing the bill for research only for PRC to steal the results.
@micsolana @bgurley I have many competitors — some foreign — who have “stolen” employees from rippling (although we would call it “recruiting”). Will you go on record saying we should ban US companies from working with my competitors, if they hire someone away from me? Happy to provide you a list!
it's legal for your competitors to "steal" your employees, and still you'd try to stop them, no? the terrain to me is simply: a chinese company, in a scheme almost certainly orchestrated by the chinese government, is artificially crashing the cost of intelligence to corner the global market with distilled american technology. we have seen versions of this for thirty years in everything from rare earths and batteries to steel. this is how our manufacturing capacity was gutted, which has been, obviously, an unmitigated disaster for our country. allowing it to persist is, imo, unthinkable. I am not a "ban open source" person, I am a fair trade person. china is waging economic warfare against our country and we should obviously do something about it.
@dukrandom @parkerconrad what do you mean we do it for them. we retain all the data revenue flywheel, everything
@Markyyc8 @parkerconrad Ok? So you just proved my point. The RELATIVE gap increases…
@parkerconrad they will literally cripple american technological leadership just so the investors of anthropic and openai can get rich wtf hahaha
@dukrandom @parkerconrad distillation is a great thing its the best news for the american economy since GPT4 and is what will ensure an american AI rennaisance instead of a stagnating duopoly
yes but if china wants to gift us with powerful model weights that we can host and finetune and serve cheaply we should take that. I expect Xi will lock it down soon. Any arguments for how this benefits them somehow are pretty retarded considering Kimi can't even meet their own inference demand right now so there is no hope of them actually earning American API revenue / hosting services competition. Its bascially just pure anthropic bagholder cope.
@dukrandom @parkerconrad Secondly the distillation scam argument only appeared ( thanks to OpenAI, Anthropic and others who were scared of their market share getting reduced) when Chinese models became competitive, from the first deepseek model, they already started crying about distillation
@dukrandom @parkerconrad That’s a load of nonsense, they’ve started to deploy supernodes at massive scale, individually some of their chips are not better that US offerings, but packaged together they offer powerful alternatives (Huawei example)
@dukrandom @parkerconrad The communist party is popping champagnes bottles currently, their AI companies refused to understand that their models became competitive of freely giving their models, releasing their weights to Americans was not advantageous for China at all. The US will fix it for them
@Markyyc8 @parkerconrad Again, I don’t give a shit about fairness, and if you care about America, you shouldn’t too. (And China doesn’t care too)
@parkerconrad @bgurley but you would call this stealing right? even though it’s not illegal? my point is this is a semantic disagreement separate from my point. I am looking at a major and ongoing conflict between our country and another hostile superpower and thinking, this should not be tolerated.