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Debate Erupts Over Whether Developers Must Grasp Entire Codebases

Theo claimed important codebases exceed one person's full comprehension.

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9 Sources, 23d ago, first seen 23d ago

TLDR

Theo posted that truly important codebases are too vast for any single brain to grasp completely. Replies in the thread included jokes about external dependencies and calls to retain understanding of created code. Notch posted that claiming code is too complex to understand resembles saying some English sentences are too perfect to hear. Another user challenged Theo's position by offering a bet on measurable engineering skill tied to ad revenue from the video.

Combined views

703.2K

9 Sources, first seen 23d ago

10.7K likes523 comments512 saves236 reposts

Combined views

703.2K

9 Sources, first seen 23d ago

10.7K likes523 comments512 saves236 reposts

Sentiment

Positive30.4%69.6%Negative

Summary

Many accounts criticized claims that developers need not understand every part of their codebase as lazy or risky at scale, while others praised revisiting core fundamentals.

Based on 119 sentiment-bearing replies from 92 accounts across 7 conversations.

Sentiment

Positive30.4%69.6%Negative

Summary

Many accounts criticized claims that developers need not understand every part of their codebase as lazy or risky at scale, while others praised revisiting core fundamentals.

Based on 119 sentiment-bearing replies from 92 accounts across 7 conversations.

9 Sources

@tetsuo_cppCounterpoint: compression libraries. Zstandard, LZ4, etc are some of the highest leverage software out there and they're extremely compact in terms of LoC.
@notchSaying there's code so complex you can't understand it is like saying there's sentences so English you can't hear them.
@_winter_wondersI disagree w this but not from the same angle I've seen other people talk about, bc peeps seem to mostly point out projects w a low loc count Working for an endpoint security company, our code gets pretty complex, but it's really important that everyone actually understands what's going on in it. He's not wrong that really knowing a codebase when it's millions of lines is unlikely. Our answer was to modularize. Now every project gets a dozen tiny codebases who have different teams running them, so every codebase is like 50k lines on the high end, which means the teams running them have a pretty fair understanding of what's going on inside them. However, as American companies have leaned harder on AI, this has changed, and now even in those tiny repos, people have a far fuzzier understanding of their code. Understanding big codebases is and always has been a challenge, but there have always been ways around it. AI people are trying to convince you that relinquishing your codebase entirely to AI and never thinking about it again is okay and good. It isn't. Your code is worse now than it has ever been.
@chriszeuchI don’t know what is going on Retain your intelligence and understand the code you are creating It’s not that fucking hard
@_twojaysThis podcast era is really interesting because anyone can just setup a microphone and start spewing nonsense
@theo@_twojays If you can prove you are a better engineer than me in any measurable way, I will personally wire you all of the ad revenue from this video. If you can't, you have to buy me a new microphone. Deal?
@forgebitz"omg how can you not understand every part of your codebase!?" - developer with 8,320 external dependencies
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    9 Sources

    @tetsuo_cppCounterpoint: compression libraries. Zstandard, LZ4, etc are some of the highest leverage software out there and they're extremely compact in terms of LoC.
    @notchSaying there's code so complex you can't understand it is like saying there's sentences so English you can't hear them.
    @_winter_wondersI disagree w this but not from the same angle I've seen other people talk about, bc peeps seem to mostly point out projects w a low loc count Working for an endpoint security company, our code gets pretty complex, but it's really important that everyone actually understands what's going on in it. He's not wrong that really knowing a codebase when it's millions of lines is unlikely. Our answer was to modularize. Now every project gets a dozen tiny codebases who have different teams running them, so every codebase is like 50k lines on the high end, which means the teams running them have a pretty fair understanding of what's going on inside them. However, as American companies have leaned harder on AI, this has changed, and now even in those tiny repos, people have a far fuzzier understanding of their code. Understanding big codebases is and always has been a challenge, but there have always been ways around it. AI people are trying to convince you that relinquishing your codebase entirely to AI and never thinking about it again is okay and good. It isn't. Your code is worse now than it has ever been.
    @chriszeuchI don’t know what is going on Retain your intelligence and understand the code you are creating It’s not that fucking hard
    @_twojaysThis podcast era is really interesting because anyone can just setup a microphone and start spewing nonsense
    @theo@_twojays If you can prove you are a better engineer than me in any measurable way, I will personally wire you all of the ad revenue from this video. If you can't, you have to buy me a new microphone. Deal?
    @forgebitz"omg how can you not understand every part of your codebase!?" - developer with 8,320 external dependencies
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