/Tech8h ago

Clay CEO Kareem Amin argues against universal scaling, proposing "death doulas" to help businesses gracefully wind down

Clay recently reached $100 million ARR in two years

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Alfred Lin@Alfred_Lin#820inTech

Great insights from Kareem, as always.

Patrick OShaughnessy@patrick_oshag

One of the most unique conversations I've had in a while.

Kareem Amin is co-founder and CEO of Clay, which has grown from $1M to $100M ARR in the last two years and is valued at $5B.

He is also one of the most original and deep thinkers I've met, which has led him to build the company in some unusual ways.

Whenever we get together, we talk a little about Clay and a lot about the ideas that make him so compelling.

This is one of those conversations.

We discuss: - Why capitalism rewards risk - Creating from wholeness ("post-lack") - Courage, truth, and justice - What magicians, clowning and music taught him about building a company - Death doulas for companies

Enjoy!

Timestamps 0:00 Giving the Power of Programming to Everyone 8:55 Courage, Truth & Justice 9:16 Capitalism & Risks 19:18 Creating from Wholeness 25:19 The 10-Day Silent Retreat 35:23 Re-Enchanting the World 42:32 Founder's Vision & Death Doulas 53:49 The Kindest Thing

1:35 PM · Jun 17, 2026 · 19.9K Views

Sentiment

Positive users praise Clay CEO Kareem's soulful intelligence and insights on scaling versus bootstrapping as making sense, while negative users see the scaling mandate as more harmful due to quality drops and limited gains.

Pos

75.0%

Neg

25.0%

3 comments with sentiment.

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Patrick OShaughnessy@patrick_oshag

Kareem had an interesting idea: a death doula for companies.

He questions whether scaling every business is actually a good thing.

"People talk about this in a boring way, should you raise VC or bootstrap.

The more interesting question is whether you should try to scale at all. What do you lose when you scale?

Should we be, as a society, incentivizing all businesses to scale?

We know this problem. This restaurant was really good, now it sucks. There's a life cycle to things.

If your company has achieved its mission...should we help it pass...rather than scaling it into a zombie or a worse version of its former self?"

Patrick OShaughnessy@patrick_oshag

One of the most unique conversations I've had in a while.

Kareem Amin is co-founder and CEO of Clay, which has grown from $1M to $100M ARR in the last two years and is valued at $5B.

He is also one of the most original and deep thinkers I've met, which has led him to build the company in some unusual ways.

Whenever we get together, we talk a little about Clay and a lot about the ideas that make him so compelling.

This is one of those conversations.

Enjoy!

7h24.9K5029

Backup Account♌️@angela60ov9

@Alfred_Lin huh, that part about X (the specific detail you referenced) is something I noticed too — but in the opposite direction for Y. makes me wonder if the sample size is skewing it

Hassan@HassanRIsmail

@Alfred_Lin kareem is probably one of the most soulful and intelligent people i've met

he's also easily one of the most unique and strangely hard to read

8h241

Sergio Pretini 🚴🇺🇸🇦🇷🚜@KerGlobal

@patrick_oshag Coming for a different society I see that "scaling mandate" as more negative than positive.Most of the times there are almost very little gains in productivity or administrative lower cost.But almost always there are huge drop in quality service. Think in a Plumber with 50 trucks

7h32

CapitánBrisa@capitanb_sails

@patrick_oshag Kareem gets it. The raise vs bootstrap debate is tired. In product we learn that shipping is easy, killing a feature is hard. Same for companies. A death doula makes total sense. Scale the mission, not the ego.

Backup Account♌️@angela60ov9

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