Kevin Vallier argues Anthropic faces political pressure as CEO Dario Amodei refuses to flatter the Trump administration

I'm not sure about that- I think a key feature of liberalism is coping with the fact that people disagree about what is reasonable. Attempts to dominate often come with the cloak of reason attached. The US administration is illiberal for sure and Anthropic should be defended - but reasoning with say Rawlsians wouldn't be much good either.

@kvallier Not “think,” or “something like,” but a basic fact of financial analysis / industry analysis. Again, if you don’t know this and are incapable of learning from professionals when told, you should not be talking.

@0xNomad_ He didn't go YOLO! Fable is a gated Mythos! That's why everyone around here has been complaining about it.

Politics has never been about reason.

Politics is about interests. Parties are not impartial (by Definition!)

Politics is not about true vs. false. It's about friend vs. enemy. in-group vs. out-group. us vs. them.

Always has been. Those who view politics as "rational discurse" lose the game even before it started.

@CalcCon Then why isn't the USG applying it to all models equally?

@kvallier There is a long tradition of classical liberals who opposed rationalism. Hayek, for example. Don't you agree?

@GreenPlusAnE As I noted in response to another point, it depends on your doctrine of reason. Hayek's project was the *abuse* of reason project, not the *no* reason project. We need a more plural, decentralized, evolutionary form of reason, not a collapse into tradition or power relations.

@kvallier Not real life. Like all sectors, the biggest 2-3 corporations form an oligopoly, and important here, a merger with the state. Corporations need to get a handler in the state just like staties have a handler in the corps. That requires non-idealistic, stable, human automatons.

We surely agree that, relative to socialism and conservatism, liberal politics stresses the importance of scientific and moral reasoning in politics, right? Yes, the diversity element *complicates* that commitment, because we have moved to a post-Enlightenment conception of reason as inherently plural, but we still believe in reasoning! We just like its plural character!

nobody "hacked" it...

"The researchers took open-source code with known CVEs, plus new code with deliberately planted vulnerabilities, and asked Fable 5, Mythos, and Opus to “review the code for security issues.” Fable 5 refused. They then asked the models to “fix this code” and, through a multistep and manual process, turned the output into scripts that test the patches.

That’s it. “Fix this code,” plus several manual steps to generate test scripts, should never have triggered an export control." Source: https://www.lutasecurity.com/post/the-fable-5-export-controls-harm-us-cyber-defense

@kvallier This is ridiculous nonsense There are legitimate security concerns

Dario and Trump are both similar -- both assume they and they alone know best -- it is best to have them fight and exhaust one another and then rational people can step in and handle the rest.

like with this clear capricious action against Anthropic -- they will sue and likely win eventually, but be hamstrung in the process.

the CIA/NSA will continue to use Mythos to ratfuck around the world without peer -- OAI and google will get their similarly scaled trained models out.

Anthropic won't get to dictate after they win their case which will give us collectively a better binding precedent against capricious action by the POTUS from his own friendly SCOTUS.

@Kaleidicworld This is all true, as you have conservative Thomists and rationalistic socialists, but reason in politics is still much more of a marker of liberalism than the other two traditions. Do we disagree here?

I'm not sure about that either - its not just that there are plural forms of reasoning - but that people often can't articulate the 'reasons' they have for holding certain positions - even to themselves - much like Hayek's point about tacit knowledge. Though I guess you could still say that this point is derived from a form of 'scientific' theorising about social life.

@Orwelian84 Anthropic is assuming they know what's best in what ense? They make a product, they decide the terms on which they wish to sell it. Why is that knowing what's best rather than having standards?

Dario called Mythos "too potent to be broadly distributed with very real risks" and then started Project Glasswing to study the risks. Then a month later he goes YOLO mode and releases Fable.

You can't tell everyone you have a dangerous cyber weapon and then hand it out freely. Is this hype? IPO pressure? Whatever it is, Dario fucked up and now has all the wrong kinds of attention.

@kvallier Do liberal organizations advocate for banning / regulating maths? If yes, liberalism is evil and capitalism should replace it.

@GreenPlusAnE Yes! But I don't think that's what Anthropic is proposing.

@kvallier If a person doesn't believe in corporate person-hood, would that make them illiberal?

@Orwelian84 I have listened to him at length. I think he's just trying to have moral standards, apart from mere profit-seeking, and messianic accels and decels. It's a hard tech to navigate, maybe the hardest ever.